[nagdu] Some clarification really neededRe: Full Body Scanning Machines

Sat Nov 20 21:38:00 UTC 2010

Why are guide dog users not able to use the full body machines?  Why does the TSA state this?

--- On Sat, 11/20/10, Brenda <bjnite at windstream.net> wrote:

> From: Brenda <bjnite at windstream.net>
> Subject: [nagdu] Some clarification really neededRe: Full Body Scanning Machines
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Date: Saturday, November 20, 2010, 3:49 PM
> Hi List
> I could tolerate the full body scanner, but I really don't
> want to get 
> groped/patted down in the manner it is currently
> done.  I am considering 
> getting a guide dog when other personal issues are
> resolved, but the 
> thought that all people with service animals will not be
> using the full 
> body scanner bothers me.   I am totally
> against the patdown and there is 
> no guarantee I would not be the lucky random winner even
> with no metal 
> on my person.
> 
> Are there clear rules somewhere that we can read and print
> out for 
> travel?  Is there any provision for a situation like
> described above?  
> If they say I can't use the full body scanner and I refuse
> a patdown 
> what happens then?
> 
> Thanks
> Brenda
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 11/20/2010 3:09 PM, Cathryn Bonnette wrote:
> > Hi Ginger,
> >
> > Thanks for the clarification. We'll be ready for the
> same ole thing then!
> >
> > Blessings,
> >
> > Cathryn (&  Abby)
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org
> [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org]
> On Behalf
> > Of Ginger Kutsch
> > Sent: Friday, November 19, 2010 10:32 PM
> > To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of
> Guide Dog Users'
> > Subject: Re: [nagdu] Full Body Scanning Machines
> >
> > Dear Cathryn,
> >
> > The TSA will not allow people traveling with service
> animals to
> > use the Whole Body Imaging machines.
> >
> > If you have a service animal, you must use the metal
> detector as
> > you have in the past. You do not have a choice.
> >
> > Best,
> > Ginger
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org
> [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org]
> > On Behalf Of Cathryn Bonnette
> > Sent: Friday, November 19, 2010 8:22 PM
> > To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of
> Guide Dog
> > Users'
> > Subject: Re: [nagdu] Full Body Scanning Machines
> >
> > Hi Gary,
> >
> > Since I posted someone else pointed out that we won't
> be able to
> > leave the dogs on a leash due to the full scanner.
> That means we
> > need to work with them to sit/stay even off leash.
> I've started
> > reinforcing that already with Abby so we will be
> ready. It seems
> > to me to be a gradual change to add into normal
> obedience. I was
> > using a short stay command with a long leash, so now I
> just
> > unclip the leash and step away as though the leash was
> still in
> > place, use the hand gesture, step back to my dog, and
> praise her
> > like crazy for doing such a great job of staying. When
> we fly
> > next, she'll be prepared to sit/stay for a short time
> while I
> > step through a scanner, then come to me when I call
> her even
> > though there is no restraining leash.
> > Well, that is my plan.  Interested in your
> thoughts as well.
> >
> > Blessings,
> >
> > Cathryn (&  Abby)
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org
> [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org]
> > On Behalf Of GARY STEEVES
> > Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2010 2:27 PM
> > To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of
> Guide Dog
> > Users
> > Subject: Re: [nagdu] Full Body Scanning Machines
> >
> >
> >
> > Hi:
> >
> > I just flew with Bogart a couple of weeks ago.
> Considering that
> > my only other flight was back from guide school we did
> great.
> > Okay, I'll be honest.
> > I was actually surprised about how good Bogart was. We
> don't work
> > on staying as much as we should but I got him to the
> portal (as
> > someone called it), got him to sit and told him to
> stay while I
> > walked through the metal detector.
> > Once done, with no beeping, I called him and he came
> right to me.
> > So this helps me realize how important it is to work
> on our
> > common commands to keep him strong at them.
> >
> > At xmas I'll be flying to one of the airports where
> the body
> > scanners are being testede in canada so we'll see if
> that is any
> > differnt.
> >
> > Gary
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Cathryn Bonnette<cathrynisfinally at verizon.net>
> > Date: Thursday, November 18, 2010 9:47 am
> > Subject: Re: [nagdu] Full Body Scanning Machines
> > To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of
> Guide Dog
> > Users'"
> > <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> >
> >> Hi Mike and All -
> >>
> >> Can't resist chiming in here. True, you don't
> choose how they
> > proceed,
> >> but you definitely have influence. Are these TSA
> agents looking
> > for
> >> ways to hassle blind people? Generally no. Also,
> they have a
> > job to
> >> do, and they are busy. Is there a reason you
> cannot trust your
> > dog to
> >> sit and stay on command for the short time it
> takes you to walk
> >> through a scanner? If your answer is "yes", it is
> time to go
> > back to
> >> the daily obedience 101 that most training
> programs suggest
> > because
> >> SIT and Stay are very basic commands your dog
> should perform
> > despite
> >> distractions. Your task is to hold the long leash
> low so it
> > doesn't
> >> set off the alarm as you walk through without your
> dog.  As
> > many of
> >> you have already enjoyed sharing, our dogs
> absolutely love
> > those
> >> patdowns, and want more of
> them!   Besides conducting
> >> ourselves as adult
> >> professionals who know what we're doing, That is
> another great
> > way to
> >> connect with the agents who otherwise are having a
> stressful,
> > or
> >> boring day depending on the alert level.
> >> It doesn't have to be traumatic- it can be a way
> to show off.
> >> What do you
> >> think?
> >>
> >> Cathryn (&  Abby, also a lover of
> patdowns)
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org
> > [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org]
> On
> >> Behalf Of Michael Hingson
> >> Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2010 11:27 AM
> >> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association
> of Guide Dog
> > Users'
> >> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Full Body Scanning Machines
> >>
> >> You may not have the choice.  They decide how
> to examine you.
> >>
> >> The Michael Hingson Group, INC.
> >>   "Speaking with Vision"
> >> Michael Hingson, President
> >> (415) 827-4084
> >> info at michaelhingson.com
> >> To learn more about my upcoming book, speaking
> topics and
> > speaking
> >> availability please visit www.michaelhingson.com
> Thunder Dog is
> > now
> >> availe for early ordering on Amazon!!!
> >> http://www.amazon.com/Thunder-Dog-Blind-Triumph-
> >>
> >
> Ground/dp/140020304X/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1289090352&sr
> > =1-3
> >>
> >> for info on the new KNFB Reader Mobile, visit:
> >> http://knfbreader.michaelhingson.com
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org
> > [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org]
> On
> >> Behalf Of Margo and Arrow
> >> Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2010 7:52 AM
> >> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association
> of Guide Dog
> > Users
> >> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Full Body Scanning Machines
> >>
> >> I would not use the scanner.  I trust my dog
> but want to be
> > where he
> >> can see
> >>
> >> me and I can speak to him.
> >>
> >> Margo and Arrow
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "Michael Hingson"<mhingson at sbcglobal.net>
> >> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association
> of Guide Dog
> >> Users'"
> >> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> >> Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2010 11:29 PM
> >> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Full Body Scanning Machines
> >>
> >>
> >> Margo is correct in that holding a long leash may
> not set off
> > the
> >> traditional detector so long as the leash stays
> below the
> > scanning
> >> element.
> >> It will NOT work with the full body scanner
> system.  If you are
> > chosen
> >> for a more detailed scan and can either use the
> body scanner or
> > are
> >> subjected to a more rigorous patdown, you could
> only use the
> > body
> >> scanner if you trust your dog to stay while you
> independently
> > go into
> >> the scanner.
> >>
> >> The Michael Hingson Group, INC.
> >>   "Speaking with Vision"
> >> Michael Hingson, President
> >> (415) 827-4084
> >> info at michaelhingson.com
> >> To learn more about my upcoming book, speaking
> topics and
> > speaking
> >> availability please visit www.michaelhingson.com
> Thunder Dog is
> > now
> >> availe for early ordering on Amazon!!!
> >> http://www.amazon.com/Thunder-Dog-Blind-Triumph-
> >>
> >
> Ground/dp/140020304X/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1289090352&sr
> > =1-3
> >>
> >> for info on the new KNFB Reader Mobile, visit:
> >> http://knfbreader.michaelhingson.com
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org
> > [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org]
> On
> >> Behalf Of Margo and Arrow
> >> Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2010 7:23 PM
> >> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association
> of Guide Dog
> > Users
> >> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Full Body Scanning Machines
> >>
> >> Cathryn, that will work for metal detectors but
> probably not
> > for the
> >> full body scans--that's a different thing.
> >>
> >> margo and Arrow
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "Cathryn Bonnette"<cathrynisfinally at verizon.net>
> >> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association
> of Guide Dog
> >> Users'"<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> >> Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2010 9:37 PM
> >> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Full Body Scanning Machines
> >>
> >>
> >>> All:
> >>>
> >>> One approach is to put your guide on a long
> leash sitting at
> >> the beginning
> >>> of the walk thru metal detector/scanner. After
> you walk
> >> through without
> >>> your
> >>> dog holding the leash, you give the "Come"
> command to
> >> demonstrate that you
> >>> alone did not set off the detector, and that
> the dog harness
> >> does. Then
> >>> one
> >>> of the transit authority staff will wand the
> dog or pat
> >> him/her down while
> >>> you stay close and keep your hands on the dog.
> Done deal. It
> >> is fairly
> >>> simple, and shouldn't change that much with
> full scanners.
> >>> At least that is my experience.
> >>>
> >>> Cathryn (&  Abby)
> >>>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org
> [mailto:nagdu-
> >> bounces at nfbnet.org]
> On Behalf
> >>> Of Tracy Carcione
> >>> Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2010 7:48 AM
> >>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National
> Association of Guide Dog
> > Users
> >>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Full Body Scanning
> Machines
> >>>
> >>> Don't only selected victims, I mean,
> passengers, get the
> > full-body
> >>> radiation treatment? Maybe you won't get
> picked.
> >>> Tracy
> >>>
> >>>> Hello!
> >>>>
> >>>> Does anyone know what the rules are for
> blind people with
> >> canes or dogs
> >>>> now
> >>>> that the full body machine has been
> installed in most
> >> airports? What do
> >>>> we
> >>>> do with the dog while we're being scanned?
> or do we have to
> >> submit to the
> >>>> more intrusive patdown?
> >>>>
> >>>> Toni
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> _______________________________________________
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> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
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