[nagdu] Freedom for guide dogs

Sat Nov 27 01:59:33 UTC 2010

Does he seem to have a lot of energy that he needs to get out? Maybe he does 
not need to play outside if he does not want to play.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Lora" <blindhistory at gmail.com>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, November 26, 2010 5:55 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Freedom for guide dogs

> Just so you guys know he has only got on the table twice in the six
> months I have had him. I want to give him good smelly treats but he is
> on a limited diet to test for food allergies. He doesn't want to play
> fetch. When we go outside all he wants to do is smell the ground. My
> mom's dog comes amazingly but mine doesn't. I've tried food rewards
> but they don't seeem to help any.
>
> On 11/26/10, Tamara Smith-Kinney <tamara.8024 at comcast.net> wrote:
>> Dan and Lora,
>>
>> Sometimes it's the orthodoxy that is ill-advised.  /evil grin/  I'm a big
>> proponent of freedom to run play in wide open spaces.  Apparently, most 
>> if
>> not all U.S. guide dog programs are against that sort of thing.  At least
>> they used to be; I hear they're getting less uptight about it lately.
>>
>> The key is to find a place where your dog will be as safe as possible to 
>> run
>> and play and even socialize with other dogs.  Especially at first, 
>> because
>> reliable recall and boundaries take time to learn.  Also, it seems that
>> reliability is a matter of maturity, so you need to maintain protections 
>> for
>> a wild and crazy dog until at least the age of 5.  /smile/  Well, the 
>> level
>> of total reliability I'm referring to there means that the dog is
>> self-disciplined and obedient enough to walk with its owner off-leash 
>> around
>> a city neighborhood without getting into trouble or endangering itself or
>> others.  Used to be, Portlanders would take their well-trained,
>> well-mannered dogs all over the place that way -- farmer's markets, 
>> street
>> fairs, community picnics, you name it.  Then people started taking their
>> untrained, ill-mannered scurvy curs to those venues, so now those of us 
>> who
>> have taken the time to train our dogs have to keep them on leash even 
>> though
>> the law still says on leash or under control.  Oh, well!  Mine is just 
>> now
>> mature and reliable enough for me to consider wandering around a farmer's
>> market or such with her off leash, and I would be using her as a guide
>> anyway. Still!  I would have loved an opportunity to see all that 
>> patience
>> and perserverance come into play, just a time or two.  I'm silly that 
>> way, I
>> guess.
>>
>> So the 5-year maturity limit is only if you really want to have a dog 
>> that
>> is totally reliable off-leash in unfenced areas.  I do, so I've been 
>> working
>> with Mitzi poodle on that since January of '07...  While I still limit
>> potential risks when we're doing our thing with no physical connection
>> between us, she's pretty awesome and I don't worry much these days. 
>> Also,
>> she truly does jingle guide and squeak guide with her ball, so it's great
>> for just walking around in the great outdoors with her.  /smile/
>>
>> I put bells on her collar so I know where she is, and I always reinforce
>> recall and minding boundaries.  Which I can now set on the fly, so that's
>> cool.  I have no need to take her on a sidewalk near traffic, and would 
>> not
>> choose to do so.  However, it is nice to know that if for whatever 
>> strange
>> reason I have a need for her to be off-leash, she would be fine.  I did
>> actually manage to lose my leash at the park a couple of years back and 
>> was
>> astonished at how well she did coming home without it.  It was a pretty 
>> safe
>> walk, except for a couple of passages, but she was awfully darn good,
>> especially considering her age and general level of overall snottiness.
>> Love her, but she is Mitzi poodle, after all.  /grin/
>>
>> Incorporating interactive play into your off-leash time also does 
>> wonders.
>> You can do a lot of reinforcing your training without actually doing any
>> training.  And you can both get lots of exercise while having fun 
>> together.
>> You can praise a behavior your dog makes in the course of play ("Good 
>> bring
>> it!), then reward the dog by throwing (or kicking) the ball,which is the
>> reward.  It's a fun way to have a dog that listens and responds well 
>> during
>> off leash romps.
>>
>> With my ulta high-energy wild and crazy curly girl, I have done my best 
>> to
>> follow a couple of hard and fast rules for myself:
>>
>> 1.  Always reward recall.  Always!
>> 2.  Never give a command you know your dog will not obey.
>>
>> Oh, and when it comes to teaching your dog to pay attention to you when 
>> it
>> counts...  Smelly treats!  If they're much too expensive and you can't 
>> stand
>> yourself when you have a pocket full of them, then you're probably on the
>> right track.  /lol/  Early on, especially, using rank bribery to start
>> conditioning obedience is definitely the way to go.  Dogs are
>> scent-oriented, so a smelly treat will get the dog's attention and bring 
>> it
>> to you, even when said dog was planning to run by you demonstrating that 
>> it
>> has no intention of coming to you just because you called it.  I speak 
>> from
>> experience there.  /grin/  It's a way to condition the dog to come 
>> whether
>> it wants to be conditioned or not.  /lol/  I could still see Mitzi well
>> enough on sunny days to catch her expression when that start kicking in.
>> She was so mad!  But she couldn't help herself because, well, you know...
>> Smelly treats are smelly treats.  Yum!
>>
>> Don't know if any of that is helpful in your situation.  It was fun to
>> suddenly find myself thinking back through all the fun (and sometimes 
>> scary)
>> times with my curly girl, seeing those sunny days in the park by my old
>> apartment with far more clarity than I probably really did....
>>
>> Now, I need to remember how to walk around the house I live in on this 
>> dank
>> and dreary winter's night... /lol/
>>
>> Good luck, and let us know how it goes.
>>
>> Tami Smith-Kinney
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
>> Behalf
>> Of Dan Weiner
>> Sent: Friday, November 26, 2010 10:39 AM
>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Freedom for guide dogs
>>
>> Well, just my opinion.
>> First of all, with outside do you mean a fenced-in area or an open space
>> with no borders?
>> If it's fenced-in, then really no harm done and let him run around and 
>> get
>> rid of pent up energy.
>> If it's totally open, I would say that letting her off lead is 
>> ill-advised.
>> Perhaps you could buy a flexi-lead to give your dog more space to roam
>> without getting away.
>> I have a fifteen foot nylon leash I bought about 15 years ago, one foot 
>> per
>> year--lol.
>> The problem is that your dog can get tangled up in it.
>> So, fenced-in area, all right, open area, not so hot--smile.
>> Indoors, well, and this is just a general comment, I find that people are
>> really uptight about everything their dogs do. How can your dog learn 
>> what's
>> expected without freedom in the house. Besides, keeping him/her on leash 
>> if
>> it's your home will make you a nervous wreck and start feeling like a
>> burden.
>> Even the best guide dogs I've seen will eventually do something silly in 
>> the
>> house, so don't sweat the little stuff.
>>
>> Perhaps unorthodox but my two cent worth anyway.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
>> Behalf
>> Of Cindy Ray
>> Sent: Friday, November 26, 2010 1:33 PM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Freedom for guide dogs
>>
>> Um, I wouldn't let him outside off leash myself. As for inside, are you
>> doing obedience? Often the dogs really need that for a while before you 
>> can
>> get what you are looking for. I do obedience on leash sometimes; then as 
>> a
>> final exercise I do it off leash to see if he'll do it.
>>
>> CL
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Lora" <blindhistory at gmail.com>
>> To: <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Friday, November 26, 2010 12:27 PM
>> Subject: [nagdu] Freedom for guide dogs
>>
>>
>> After about six months I have been trying to give my guide dog freedom
>> outside and inside. He still gets into trouble mostly outside. He
>> won't listen off leash. Any suggestions?
>> --
>> Lora
>>
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>>
>>
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>
>
> -- 
> Lora
>
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