[nagdu] Freedom for guide dogs

Sat Nov 27 12:47:47 UTC 2010

I sometimes wonder if our dogs just aren't used to feedom and don't know
what to do with it once they get it, I mean your comment about your Mom's
dog coming and yours not.
I've had that experience too, pet dogs coming as nice as you please and my
dogs wandering.

Dan

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Lora
Sent: Friday, November 26, 2010 8:56 PM
To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Freedom for guide dogs

Just so you guys know he has only got on the table twice in the six months I
have had him. I want to give him good smelly treats but he is on a limited
diet to test for food allergies. He doesn't want to play fetch. When we go
outside all he wants to do is smell the ground. My mom's dog comes amazingly
but mine doesn't. I've tried food rewards but they don't seeem to help any.

On 11/26/10, Tamara Smith-Kinney <tamara.8024 at comcast.net> wrote:
> Dan and Lora,
>
> Sometimes it's the orthodoxy that is ill-advised.  /evil grin/  I'm a 
> big proponent of freedom to run play in wide open spaces.  Apparently, 
> most if not all U.S. guide dog programs are against that sort of 
> thing.  At least they used to be; I hear they're getting less uptight
about it lately.
>
> The key is to find a place where your dog will be as safe as possible 
> to run and play and even socialize with other dogs.  Especially at 
> first, because reliable recall and boundaries take time to learn.  
> Also, it seems that reliability is a matter of maturity, so you need 
> to maintain protections for a wild and crazy dog until at least the 
> age of 5.  /smile/  Well, the level of total reliability I'm referring 
> to there means that the dog is self-disciplined and obedient enough to 
> walk with its owner off-leash around a city neighborhood without 
> getting into trouble or endangering itself or others.  Used to be, 
> Portlanders would take their well-trained, well-mannered dogs all over 
> the place that way -- farmer's markets, street fairs, community 
> picnics, you name it.  Then people started taking their untrained, 
> ill-mannered scurvy curs to those venues, so now those of us who have 
> taken the time to train our dogs have to keep them on leash even 
> though the law still says on leash or under control.  Oh, well!  Mine 
> is just now mature and reliable enough for me to consider wandering 
> around a farmer's market or such with her off leash, and I would be 
> using her as a guide anyway. Still!  I would have loved an opportunity 
> to see all that patience and perserverance come into play, just a time or
two.  I'm silly that way, I guess.
>
> So the 5-year maturity limit is only if you really want to have a dog 
> that is totally reliable off-leash in unfenced areas.  I do, so I've 
> been working with Mitzi poodle on that since January of '07...  While 
> I still limit potential risks when we're doing our thing with no 
> physical connection between us, she's pretty awesome and I don't worry 
> much these days.  Also, she truly does jingle guide and squeak guide 
> with her ball, so it's great for just walking around in the great 
> outdoors with her.  /smile/
>
> I put bells on her collar so I know where she is, and I always 
> reinforce recall and minding boundaries.  Which I can now set on the 
> fly, so that's cool.  I have no need to take her on a sidewalk near 
> traffic, and would not choose to do so.  However, it is nice to know 
> that if for whatever strange reason I have a need for her to be 
> off-leash, she would be fine.  I did actually manage to lose my leash 
> at the park a couple of years back and was astonished at how well she 
> did coming home without it.  It was a pretty safe walk, except for a 
> couple of passages, but she was awfully darn good, especially considering
her age and general level of overall snottiness.
> Love her, but she is Mitzi poodle, after all.  /grin/
>
> Incorporating interactive play into your off-leash time also does wonders.
> You can do a lot of reinforcing your training without actually doing 
> any training.  And you can both get lots of exercise while having fun
together.
> You can praise a behavior your dog makes in the course of play ("Good 
> bring it!), then reward the dog by throwing (or kicking) the 
> ball,which is the reward.  It's a fun way to have a dog that listens 
> and responds well during off leash romps.
>
> With my ulta high-energy wild and crazy curly girl, I have done my 
> best to follow a couple of hard and fast rules for myself:
>
> 	1.  Always reward recall.  Always!
> 	2.  Never give a command you know your dog will not obey.
>
> Oh, and when it comes to teaching your dog to pay attention to you 
> when it counts...  Smelly treats!  If they're much too expensive and 
> you can't stand yourself when you have a pocket full of them, then 
> you're probably on the right track.  /lol/  Early on, especially, 
> using rank bribery to start conditioning obedience is definitely the 
> way to go.  Dogs are scent-oriented, so a smelly treat will get the 
> dog's attention and bring it to you, even when said dog was planning 
> to run by you demonstrating that it has no intention of coming to you 
> just because you called it.  I speak from experience there.  /grin/  
> It's a way to condition the dog to come whether it wants to be 
> conditioned or not.  /lol/  I could still see Mitzi well enough on sunny
days to catch her expression when that start kicking in.
> She was so mad!  But she couldn't help herself because, well, you know...
> Smelly treats are smelly treats.  Yum!
>
> Don't know if any of that is helpful in your situation.  It was fun to 
> suddenly find myself thinking back through all the fun (and sometimes 
> scary) times with my curly girl, seeing those sunny days in the park 
> by my old apartment with far more clarity than I probably really did....
>
> Now, I need to remember how to walk around the house I live in on this 
> dank and dreary winter's night... /lol/
>
> Good luck, and let us know how it goes.
>
> Tami Smith-Kinney
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
> Behalf Of Dan Weiner
> Sent: Friday, November 26, 2010 10:39 AM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Freedom for guide dogs
>
> Well, just my opinion.
> First of all, with outside do you mean a fenced-in area or an open 
> space with no borders?
> If it's fenced-in, then really no harm done and let him run around and 
> get rid of pent up energy.
> If it's totally open, I would say that letting her off lead is
ill-advised.
> Perhaps you could buy a flexi-lead to give your dog more space to roam 
> without getting away.
> I have a fifteen foot nylon leash I bought about 15 years ago, one 
> foot per year--lol.
> The problem is that your dog can get tangled up in it.
> So, fenced-in area, all right, open area, not so hot--smile.
> Indoors, well, and this is just a general comment, I find that people 
> are really uptight about everything their dogs do. How can your dog 
> learn what's expected without freedom in the house. Besides, keeping 
> him/her on leash if it's your home will make you a nervous wreck and 
> start feeling like a burden.
> Even the best guide dogs I've seen will eventually do something silly 
> in the house, so don't sweat the little stuff.
>
> Perhaps unorthodox but my two cent worth anyway.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
> Behalf Of Cindy Ray
> Sent: Friday, November 26, 2010 1:33 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Freedom for guide dogs
>
> Um, I wouldn't let him outside off leash myself. As for inside, are 
> you doing obedience? Often the dogs really need that for a while 
> before you can get what you are looking for. I do obedience on leash 
> sometimes; then as a final exercise I do it off leash to see if he'll do
it.
>
> CL
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Lora" <blindhistory at gmail.com>
> To: <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, November 26, 2010 12:27 PM
> Subject: [nagdu] Freedom for guide dogs
>
>
> After about six months I have been trying to give my guide dog freedom 
> outside and inside. He still gets into trouble mostly outside. He 
> won't listen off leash. Any suggestions?
> --
> Lora
>
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--
Lora

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