[nagdu] NFB and Airlines
GARY STEEVES
rainshadowmusic at shaw.ca
Sun Oct 31 23:19:40 UTC 2010
Hello Everyone:
Just thought I'd share my canadian experience. I flew last weekend from Vancouver to Ottawa which is a 5 hour direct flight. In Canada the airlines must provide a seat for the dog as long as they are given the appropriate notice. I did everything as I was supposed to. the only thing I didn't do according to their policy was to arrive an extra hour early (this means 2 ours) before my flight was to leave. I felt that this was unreasonable when I'm trying to minimize how long Bogart has to go without relieving himself. I forgot to ask when I was checking in if they had kept the seat aside as they were supposed to. So I got them to send an assistant to get me to the gate. Going through security went really well. One security guy was going to ask me to take Bogart's harness off but before I could explain that this wasn't necessary (polite way of saying I don't have to) one of his workmates said the right thing which was we don't have to do that. I got Bogart to sit right in front of the security scanner and told him to stay. I walked through, with no beeps which makes things easier, and then asked bogart to come. All I had to do was show them what was in the poutch on his harness (halty, treats and pickup bags) and they were happy. When I got to the plane they were just about to start preboarding so on we went. I was wondering how things were going to work out and soon saw when two people identified themselves of holding the two seats in my row of 3. I called the flight attendant and calmly explained the situation. Her question was did I purchase a seat for the dog to which I said no and again explained what the canadian transportation policy states. She went off and looked through a bunch of binders until they foud the answer they were looking for. I was hoping one of my row mates would gget bumped to first class. Anyway, they did find a seat for the middle guy of the row so that all worked out. On the way back I asked when I was checking in to be sure that everything was booked correctly which it was.
I also had a bit of a hassle at the hotel. It was 1am and I was tired. the over night desk clerk was wanting to bill me $35 for a pet. I explained that he was a guide dog and not a pet and I could guarantee that there was no pet charge. I had to say this twice but in the end there was no charge on my account. I did call the manager and tell him about what happened and maybe he needs to use this as an opportunity to re-educate his staff regarding service dogs.
Anyway, I have to thank the list since it is from reading everyone's stories that I was sure I knew the rules and simply calmly explained them without being confrontational with good results.
Thank you everyone for helping me understand that the most important thing I can do is know the rules/laws and be able to confidently explain them to whomever. Just being calm, clear and confident will be a big stabalizer in keeping the situation under control.
By the way bogart did really good on this trip. he was a bit nervous on the flight out but better on the gflight back. He did a great job of guiding me around the hotel. stayed calm and quiet during my boring meeting and just would lie down when my conversations became to boring for him. He was the star of the show though. :) My girlfriend had google mapped the area so I knew there was a church a block away with a nice grassy park. It was challenging to find time to get him out there and do everything I needed to do but we did accomplish it. All and all it was good to see he could handle the conference setting. If I didn't need to bring him next time then I probably wouldn't but I like to know he does okay with these sorts of changes.
Gary
----- Original Message -----
From: Steve Jacobson <steve.jacobson at visi.com>
Date: Saturday, October 30, 2010 11:40 am
Subject: Re: [nagdu] NFB and Airlines
To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Tami,
>
> The long struggle we have had with the airlines has been very
> frustrating. As has been mentioned, we've had significant
> problems over the past 30 or more
> years. I was one who was arrested for not moving from an
> exit row back in the 80's, and while I feel I was right, I am
> frustrated that my actions did not lead
> to more changes. However, the NFB was very active in
> assisting a number of us in the 1980's and we came very close to
> getting some real protection
> passed through Congress. Unfortunately, terrorism and the
> experiences in most recent years has made it more difficult to
> take a legal approach with the
> airlines. However, there are some protections in law that
> can still help us. Often, the problems we encounter with
> airlines are not truly the result of airline
> policies but are rather poor implementations of policy by
> specific staff. While it is not likely, in my opinion,
> that we can do much in terms of getting new laws
> passed in the current climate, and while individuals may have
> less of a chance of success than we did back in the 1980's by
> refusing to obey policies that
> were not supported by law, resisting policies and complaining
> through various complaint mechanisms can help. While
> airlines tend to have a good deal of
> power now because of laws related to anti-terrorism, they also
> have a fairly poor image with their customers and are sometimes
> responsive to complaints.
>
> While you are right that there is no single way to bring about
> change now, resisting or complaining about policies that you
> feel are not fair can help. It also
> helps to be knowledgeable about the law. While the ADA may
> have some impact, there are specific laws that govern airline
> travel. Never mind the fact
> that we shouldn't have to deal with any of this, the fact is
> that we do, fair or not. While the kinds of changes we may
> once have hoped for are not likely to
> happen quickly, we do not have to sit back and take whatever is
> thrown at us, either. We are also hurt by the fact that
> there are blind people out there
> who feel if they are not able to do a given thing then nobody
> can. That is also an unfortunate fact of life, but
> that isn't anything new. Still, it makes sense
> for us to evaluate our own abilities honestly as well. The
> idea here is not that one size fits all, it is that each of us
> has different abilities and challenges and
> may need different levels of assistance. This can actually
> make life confusing for airline personnel, but we need to keep
> working with them and with each
> other.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Steve Jacobson
>
> On Fri, 29 Oct 2010 22:41:23 -0700, Tamara Smith-Kinney wrote:
>
> >Well... I do see where you're coming from. However,
> it is astonishing how
> >much attitudes change when the consequences of the actions
> based on the bad
> >attitudes are real and immediate and have direct connection to
> the bad
> >behavior... Operant conditing 101, really. Only
> with humans, you have to
> >sometimes apply harsh and punitive negative reinforcement just
> to get their
> >attention.
>
> >In other words, so long as we let the airlines and any other
> entity guilty
> >of gross mistreatment of the disabled or any other minority --
> and thus
> >perceived as powerless group -- get away with it, they will
> continue with
> >their bad behavior because they will not only get away with it
> but be
> >rewarded by it.
>
> >What can we as individuals do? Not a g*d* freakin'
> thing. Because we as
> >individuals can almost (but not quite) afford the attorney
> fees. Or the
> >time. Or the energy. Or the real financial burden
> from both of those.
>
> >So... I'm with Cathryn. So long as we and the NFB
> let these people -- and
> >others -- get away with their bad behavior, they will continue
> to pratice
> >it.
>
> >If I had a practical solution, I would offer it. More
> money and more
> >personal advocacy and attorneys ready to leap to deal with individual
> >incidents would be great... It's coming up with that kind
> of money and that
> >kind of manpower that stumps me. I do what I can, and
> that currently ain't
> >much. Maybe someday, for me, but for now I just have to
> deal with what I
> >can (me, then the Oregon Commission for Blind) and spout off
> opinions.>/smile/
>
> >Tami Smith-Kinney
>
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-
> bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> >Of Cindy Ray
> >Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2010 5:16 PM
> >To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> >Subject: Re: [nagdu] NFB and Airlines
>
> >Cathryn, I think it is pretty unfair to say that the airlines
> will do
> >whatever the NFB and others will let them get away with. As
> Peter has
> >stated, this sort of thing has been going on for at least 30
> years. People
> >have been arrested for standing up for their rights on planes.
> Others have
> >managed to garner bad will of other passengers. NFB has had
> cases; we once
> >demonstrated at the FAA during a convention. Just this week a
> suit has been
> >filed against United concerning the inaccessibility of the
> kiosks (sp), and
> >there are plenty of instances where members have been able to
> get airlines
> >to admit to the fact there are really no rules. I think this is
> something>that will continue as long as the attitudes exist that
> are. You can pass
> >laws but attitudes take time, and more time than we mostly have
> patience>with, but I think it some unfair to say what you have
> said here unless I am
> >truly missing something.
>
> >CL
>
>
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