[nagdu] Cab drivers in DC pass blind people with guide dogs

Thu Sep 9 16:24:15 UTC 2010

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----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Julie J" <julielj at windstream.net>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2010 11:38 AM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Cab drivers in DC pass blind people with guide dogs

> Uh...? I'm clueless, what minister in Florida?
>
> Julie
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Mark J. Cadigan" <kramc11 at gmail.com>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2010 9:29 AM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Cab drivers in DC pass blind people with guide dogs
>
>
> > Speeking of religion, what do people think of this minister down in
> > Florida.
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: "Buddy Brannan" <buddy at brannan.name>
> > To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> > <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> > Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2010 9:27 AM
> > Subject: Re: [nagdu] Cab drivers in DC pass blind people with guide dogs
> >
> >
> >>I think that religion is just an excuse for not taking our guide dogs
> >>because the person just doesn't like dogs or something. Or else it's
> >>poorly educated thingy...
> >> --
> >> Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
> >> Phone: (814) 860-3194 or 888-75-BUDDY
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Sep 9, 2010, at 9:23 AM, Cathryn Bonnette wrote:
> >>
> >>> What's up with being Muslim and not taking a service animal or dog in
> >>> your
> >>> cab? I've had many Muslim cab drivers, and have yet to hear that 
> >>> excuse.
> >>>
> >>> Cathryn (& Abby)
> >>>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> >>> Behalf
> >>> Of Jewel S.
> >>> Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 6:53 PM
> >>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> >>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Cab drivers in DC pass blind people with guide 
> >>> dogs
> >>>
> >>> I was talking to a driver for the company I usually use for
> >>> non-scheduled (non-paratransit) trips. His company, Cardinal Cabs, has
> >>> never given me or anyone I know any trouble with accessibility. We
> >>> discussed the guide dog issue and what he would suggest as an
> >>> alternative for taxi drivers who genuinely cannot have a dog in their
> >>> cab, such as someone who is severely allergic. He made the comment
> >>> that he is severely allergic to dogs himself (what coincidence!), and
> >>> the last exposure he had (with medicine even) sent him intot he
> >>> hospital. The company he works for informed him he could not refuse a
> >>> customer with a service animal, but did offer a special accommodation
> >>> that I thik would be a good special accommodation for Muslims also.
> >>> All taxis have to have some way of speaking to headquarters, so if
> >>> they come across someone with a dog but can't (for religious or
> >>> medical reasons) take the dog into their taxi, they can call HQ and
> >>> request another cab be sent to this person ASAP. The cab driver who
> >>> spotted the person would be responsible for stopping and letting the
> >>> service dog owner of the situation and give them both the HQ phone
> >>> number and the employee numbers of himself and the cab driver who was
> >>> assigned to serve this person.
> >>>
> >>> We must remember that we are not the only disabled people out there.
> >>> Taxi drivers can also be disabled with severe allergies, and I think
> >>> it is important to give accommodation for religious reasons. America
> >>> is the land of the free, and that means everyone, not just some.
> >>> Muslims are entitled to their religious opinions, but that doesn't
> >>> mean they should leave that person without transportation.
> >>>
> >>> What do you guys think of this solution? As I said, this is a solution
> >>> currently being used by a cab driver in Raleigh, NC who is severely
> >>> allergic to dogs. He said that most cab drivers in the area are more
> >>> aware of the needs of the disabled because of the fact that our
> >>> paratransit system is contracted to taxis rather than buses. I tend to
> >>> agree. I also thinkn more cities should employ taxi drivers as
> >>> paratransit service providers as Raleigh does.
> >>>
> >>> I'd love to hear what you all have to add to this!
> >>>
> >>> On 9/7/10, Robert Stigile <rstigile at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> >>>> Hello Marion and All,
> >>>> There has been a lot of discussion on this list, about taxi cab
> >>>> drivers in DC.
> >>>> This last Washington Seminar, I had my first experience of a
> >>>> driver, in a long time, that thought you needed to pay a fee for
> >>>> having the dog in the cab.
> >>>> He even went as far as trying to tell me, that the sign on the
> >>>> back window, told you how much extra it will be for the dog.
> >>>> I finally gave up trying to explain to him, that there should not
> >>>> be a extra charge, and said, well, if you are so inclined to
> >>>> charge an extra fee, then I guess I will have to take it out of
> >>>> your tip.
> >>>> He backed off at that point, and when we got out of the vehicle,
> >>>> I had someone read him the sign, of which it said, there is no
> >>>> extra charge for service animals.
> >>>> Here in my area, specifically the San Fernando Valley, a suburb
> >>>> of Los Angeles, we really do not have issues, because I have
> >>>> filed several complaints with the Department of Transportation,
> >>>> as well as our Division, CAGDU, has worked very hard, around the
> >>>> state, to inform the agencies that oversee the taxi cab
> >>>> companies, that it is our right to travel with a service animal,
> >>>> and because of the work we have done, a lot of the issues have
> >>>> disappeared.
> >>>> Once in a while, there will be a driver who thinks, he can get a
> >>>> way with not picking you up, but the dispatchers can tell when
> >>>> the driver is doing that, and they will suspend them, I have
> >>>> actually heard them over the radio or while on the phone, telling
> >>>> a driver they will need to bring their cab in, due to their
> >>>> behavior towards a blind person.
> >>>> So, it may be tedious for a while, but you have to file
> >>>> complaints.
> >>>> I hope this helps,
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Robert Stigile
> >>>> E-mail: rstigile at sbcglobal.net
> >>>> Skype: robertstigile1
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>> From: "Marion Gwizdala" <blind411 at verizon.net
> >>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
> >>>> Users"<nagdu at nfbnet.org
> >>>> Date sent: Tue, 07 Sep 2010 08:23:02 -0400
> >>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Cab drivers in DC pass blind people with
> >>>> guide dogs
> >>>>
> >>>> Will,
> >>>>    There is no obligation, as I have stated, to inform the
> >>>> company of the
> >>>> presence of a guide dog.  Again, if you are refused access
> >>>> because of your
> >>>> guide dog, I strongly suggest you file complaints as widely as
> >>>> possible.
> >>>> this means with the agency that regulates the cab company, your
> >>>> state's
> >>>> human rights department, law enforcement, and the DOJ.  If you
> >>>> ever need any
> >>>> assistance, please do not hesitate to call upon me!
> >>>>
> >>>> fraternally yours,
> >>>> Marion Gwizdala, President
> >>>> National Association of Guide Dog Users
> >>>> National Federation of the Blind
> >>>> 813-626-2789
> >>>> Blind411 at Verizon.net
> >>>> HTTP://NAGDU.ORG
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>> From: "William ODonnell" <william.odonnell1 at yahoo.com
> >>>> To: "the National Association of Guide Dog UsersNAGDU Mailing
> >>>> List"
> >>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org
> >>>> Sent: Monday, September 06, 2010 7:21 PM
> >>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Cab drivers in DC pass blind people with
> >>>> guide dogs
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Many times, I have been told that they will not take people since
> >>>> the
> >>>> oporator did not inform the driver that there was a dog, etc.
> >>>> The
> >>>>
> >>>> --- On Mon, 9/6/10, Marion Gwizdala <blind411 at verizon.net> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> From: Marion Gwizdala <blind411 at verizon.net
> >>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Cab drivers in DC pass blind people with
> >>>> guide dogs
> >>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
> >>>> Users"
> >>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org
> >>>> Date: Monday, September 6, 2010, 2:11 PM
> >>>> Will,
> >>>> I'm not sure what you mean by needing to
> >>>> "go on explaining and waiting for the approval of the
> >>>> supervisor"! If you mean that you are advising them that you
> >>>> will be accompanied by a guide dog, the way to resolve this
> >>>> is to not tell them.  You are under no obligation to do so
> >>>> under the law; likewise, they are obliged under the law to
> >>>> transport you.  The presence of your guide dog is irrelevant,
> >>>> so don't tell them!
> >>>> What I did here in Tampa is to call about
> >>>> ten minutes aftter my first call to check on whether or not
> >>>> the call had ben dispatched.  Generally, they would tell me
> >>>> what cab number was dispatched to pick me up.  If the cabbie
> >>>> refused to carry me, I would advise him that I am blind and
> >>>> my dog is a service animal.  If the driver continued in the
> >>>> refusal, I would let him drive away so that there was a
> >>>> clear refusal.  In Florida, violation of the law is a second
> >>>> degree misdemeanor and, as per resolution 2010-25, it is now
> >>>> the policy of the NFB to work for the same penalties in all
> >>>> states.  File a complaint against the cabbie and against the
> >>>> company.  The company may claim that they have no control
> >>>> over their drivers if the drivers are independent
> >>>> contractors; however, the law does not see it this way and,
> >>>> when the owners of the cab companies find themselves paying
> >>>> their high-priced attorneys to defend them against charges
> >>>> of discrimination, they will start making some changes!
> >>>>
> >>>> Fraternally yours,
> >>>> Marion Gwizdala
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "William ODonnell"
> >>>> <william.odonnell1 at yahoo.com
> >>>> To: "the National Association of Guide Dog UsersNAGDU
> >>>> Mailing List" <nagdu at nfbnet.org
> >>>> Sent: Monday, September 06, 2010 9:47 AM
> >>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Cab drivers in DC pass blind people
> >>>> with guide dogs
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> The same thing goes on here in NYC.  If you need a
> >>>> cab, you can get a yellow cab in Manhattan; however, outside
> >>>> the city, it is a hit or miss issue with the car
> >>>> companies.  First, you need to call for the cab and go
> >>>> on explaining and waiting for approval of the supervisors,
> >>>> dispatchers, and drivers.  If you are trying to get a
> >>>> cab on the street, well, good luck.  The yellow cabs I
> >>>> mention above are the ones from the medallion Taxi and
> >>>> limousine commission (TLC).  They will usually pick you
> >>>> up; however, then you need to go on with the explanations
> >>>> that the dog is a service dog and will not harm anyone
> >>>> because very often you here the fear from the driver that
> >>>> the dog may harm them.
> >>>> --- On Sun, 9/5/10, Dan Weiner <dcwein at dcwein.cnc.net
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> From: Dan Weiner <dcwein at dcwein.cnc.net
> >>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Cab drivers in DC pass blind
> >>>> people with guide dogs
> >>>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of
> >>>> Guide Dog Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org
> >>>> Date: Sunday, September 5, 2010, 7:42 AM
> >>>> Granted, Sherri, the wording is
> >>>> regrettable, but the fact is we're not
> >>>> going to win on some of these points and in the case
> >>>> of the
> >>>> article we'd be
> >>>> missing the forest for the trees pointing that out,,
> >>>> or however that goes.
> >>>> At lease when I lived in Maryland I can tell you that
> >>>> access was a problem
> >>>> when it came to cabs.
> >>>> And, those friends of mine who lived in DC would
> >>>> confirm
> >>>> the estimate of
> >>>> half the drivers passing by or not taking you.
> >>>>
> >>>> This is the height of absurdity and even shameful,
> >>>> that
> >>>> we've had eighty
> >>>> years of guide dog training here in the USA and it's
> >>>> still
> >>>> that way.
> >>>> And like it or not, nine times out of ten in my neck
> >>>> of the
> >>>> woods in
> >>>> Maryland it was people from the mid East, Africa and
> >>>> Asia,
> >>>> emigrants in
> >>>> other words, who did the worst offending in this
> >>>> regard.
> >>>> This is the first
> >>>> time in my life, sorry to say, that I started feeling
> >>>> a
> >>>> real hostility to
> >>>> emigrants, who, in my way of thinking, were dishing
> >>>> out to
> >>>> people from here
> >>>> worse treatment then they were getting.  They had jobs
> >>>> and
> >>>> could find them
> >>>> quickly again, no skin off their nose to treat a
> >>>> blind
> >>>> person like dirt.
> >>>> And, guys, don't start with me the old chorus of how
> >>>> they're afraid of dogs,
> >>>> etc.  I couldn't care less, it isn't a dog popularity
> >>>> contest we're in here.
> >>>> The reasons are immaterial to me, how to reverse this
> >>>> trend
> >>>> is what I'm
> >>>> interested in.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Sad but true it was a lot of folks from other lands
> >>>> who did
> >>>> this.
> >>>> .
> >>>> Not that there weren't any good old native American
> >>>> born, white and black
> >>>> guys, who had their chance to step up to the plate and
> >>>> be
> >>>> butt holes because
> >>>> there were.
> >>>> So, you were lucky if you got drivers who knew you, or
> >>>> I'd
> >>>> take numbers of
> >>>> cabbies I liked and give them some business on the
> >>>> side,
> >>>> but frankly, the
> >>>> fact that we have to do that means there's something
> >>>> seriously wrong.
> >>>> I mention that because some blind friends there said
> >>>> rather superciliously,
> >>>> "well, what I do is make sure I get the drivers who
> >>>> don't
> >>>> mind dogs".  I'm
> >>>> beating my head against a wall, here, guys, but the
> >>>> cabbies
> >>>> are supposed to
> >>>> take us, ain't up to us to get a little black book of
> >>>> people who decide it's
> >>>> convenient to follow the law.
> >>>> Now, here in Florida, I've only taken a few cabs
> >>>> recently
> >>>> as I'm trying to
> >>>> save money, so what can you tell me about access here,
> >>>> or
> >>>> Marian in Tampa,
> >>>> etc?
> >>>>
> >>>> There would be only two reasons that at some point I
> >>>> decide
> >>>> not to choose a
> >>>> guide dog as my main means of mobility:
> >>>> 1.  It's hard on me to see them get old and so on,
> >>>> very hard.
> >>>> 2.  This access situation.
> >>>> When I call a cab, I should not have to have my heart
> >>>> in my
> >>>> mouth wondering
> >>>> whether they're going to see me and drive away.  One
> >>>> of the drivers who
> >>>> liked me told me that several of them who didn't like
> >>>> dogs
> >>>> would just not
> >>>> come if they knew it was a dog user and say they came
> >>>> and I
> >>>> wasn't there, or
> >>>> other little tricks.
> >>>> In Prince George's County, Maryland, the company had
> >>>> some
> >>>> GPs system whereby
> >>>> they could tell which driver was nearest to whatever
> >>>> location I was calling
> >>>> from and he would be assigned.  Now, that would mean I
> >>>> could very often and
> >>>> would get a person for whatever reason, decided to
> >>>> drive
> >>>> away or in some
> >>>> other way treat me like the scum of the Earth because
> >>>> I
> >>>> dare to want to be
> >>>> independent and use a guide dog.
> >>>>
> >>>> Of course they're computers, the cab company's may not
> >>>> be
> >>>> the most accurate,
> >>>> I called once from my cell phone when at Dunkin''
> >>>> Doughnuts
> >>>> and every time I
> >>>> called from my cell they'd say "Oh, we'll send
> >>>> someone to the Dunkin'
> >>>> Doughnuts, and I had to make sure they got it before
> >>>> they
> >>>> hung up.
> >>>> One day I got really frustrated and said, I don't care
> >>>> who
> >>>> you send but make
> >>>> it someone who understands English and make sure
> >>>> they're
> >>>> not an idiot."
> >>>> I swear, one of the cab drivers thought this was
> >>>> funny
> >>>> because whatever
> >>>> dispatcher had put that under my phone number on the
> >>>> computer, so it would
> >>>> come up as "has a guide dog, wants someone who
> >>>> understands
> >>>> English, doesn't
> >>>> want an idiot.".
> >>>> Still, all of those qualifications didn't help
> >>>> sometimes--smile
> >>>>
> >>>> Rant over
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Dan W.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
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> >>>> onnell1%40yahoo.com
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
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> >>>>
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> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
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> >>>>
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> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
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> >>> nagdu:
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> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail
> >>> .com
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> -- 
> >>> ~Jewel
> >>> Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind!
> >>> Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
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> >>> nagdu:
> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/cathrynisfinally%40ve
> >>> rizon.net
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> >>
> >>
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> >
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