[nagdu] Cab drivers in DC pass blind people with guide dogs

Julie J julielj at windstream.net
Thu Sep 9 16:34:32 UTC 2010 

Oh!  I guess I really do live under a rock.  I hadn't heard about this.

Although I don't see the point, it is within his rights to do so.

Civil rights are a funny thing that way, they apply equally to *everyone* 
whether we like it or not.

Julie

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "cheryl echevarria" <cherylandmaxx at hotmail.com>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2010 11:24 AM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Cab drivers in DC pass blind people with guide dogs


> The one who wants to burn over 200 Korans on 9/11
>
> The Pope, The President and others have advised him not to do it
> The biggest compliment you can pay me is to recommend my services!
>
> Cheryl Echevarria
> http://Echevarriatravel.com
> 1-866-580-5574
> Reservations at echevarriatravel.com
>
> Affiliated as an Independent Contractor with Montrose Travel 
> CST-1018299-10
> Affiliated as an Independent Contractor with Absolute Cruise and Travel 
> Inc.
>
> join my yahoogroup
> echevarriatravel-subscribe at yahoogroups.com
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Julie J" <julielj at windstream.net>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2010 11:38 AM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Cab drivers in DC pass blind people with guide dogs
>
>
>> Uh...? I'm clueless, what minister in Florida?
>>
>> Julie
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Mark J. Cadigan" <kramc11 at gmail.com>
>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2010 9:29 AM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Cab drivers in DC pass blind people with guide dogs
>>
>>
>> > Speeking of religion, what do people think of this minister down in
>> > Florida.
>> >
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message ----- 
>> > From: "Buddy Brannan" <buddy at brannan.name>
>> > To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>> > <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> > Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2010 9:27 AM
>> > Subject: Re: [nagdu] Cab drivers in DC pass blind people with guide 
>> > dogs
>> >
>> >
>> >>I think that religion is just an excuse for not taking our guide dogs
>> >>because the person just doesn't like dogs or something. Or else it's
>> >>poorly educated thingy...
>> >> --
>> >> Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
>> >> Phone: (814) 860-3194 or 888-75-BUDDY
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Sep 9, 2010, at 9:23 AM, Cathryn Bonnette wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> What's up with being Muslim and not taking a service animal or dog in
>> >>> your
>> >>> cab? I've had many Muslim cab drivers, and have yet to hear that 
>> >>> excuse.
>> >>>
>> >>> Cathryn (& Abby)
>> >>>
>> >>> -----Original Message-----
>> >>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> >>> Behalf
>> >>> Of Jewel S.
>> >>> Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 6:53 PM
>> >>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> >>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Cab drivers in DC pass blind people with guide 
>> >>> dogs
>> >>>
>> >>> I was talking to a driver for the company I usually use for
>> >>> non-scheduled (non-paratransit) trips. His company, Cardinal Cabs, 
>> >>> has
>> >>> never given me or anyone I know any trouble with accessibility. We
>> >>> discussed the guide dog issue and what he would suggest as an
>> >>> alternative for taxi drivers who genuinely cannot have a dog in their
>> >>> cab, such as someone who is severely allergic. He made the comment
>> >>> that he is severely allergic to dogs himself (what coincidence!), and
>> >>> the last exposure he had (with medicine even) sent him intot he
>> >>> hospital. The company he works for informed him he could not refuse a
>> >>> customer with a service animal, but did offer a special accommodation
>> >>> that I thik would be a good special accommodation for Muslims also.
>> >>> All taxis have to have some way of speaking to headquarters, so if
>> >>> they come across someone with a dog but can't (for religious or
>> >>> medical reasons) take the dog into their taxi, they can call HQ and
>> >>> request another cab be sent to this person ASAP. The cab driver who
>> >>> spotted the person would be responsible for stopping and letting the
>> >>> service dog owner of the situation and give them both the HQ phone
>> >>> number and the employee numbers of himself and the cab driver who was
>> >>> assigned to serve this person.
>> >>>
>> >>> We must remember that we are not the only disabled people out there.
>> >>> Taxi drivers can also be disabled with severe allergies, and I think
>> >>> it is important to give accommodation for religious reasons. America
>> >>> is the land of the free, and that means everyone, not just some.
>> >>> Muslims are entitled to their religious opinions, but that doesn't
>> >>> mean they should leave that person without transportation.
>> >>>
>> >>> What do you guys think of this solution? As I said, this is a 
>> >>> solution
>> >>> currently being used by a cab driver in Raleigh, NC who is severely
>> >>> allergic to dogs. He said that most cab drivers in the area are more
>> >>> aware of the needs of the disabled because of the fact that our
>> >>> paratransit system is contracted to taxis rather than buses. I tend 
>> >>> to
>> >>> agree. I also thinkn more cities should employ taxi drivers as
>> >>> paratransit service providers as Raleigh does.
>> >>>
>> >>> I'd love to hear what you all have to add to this!
>> >>>
>> >>> On 9/7/10, Robert Stigile <rstigile at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>> >>>> Hello Marion and All,
>> >>>> There has been a lot of discussion on this list, about taxi cab
>> >>>> drivers in DC.
>> >>>> This last Washington Seminar, I had my first experience of a
>> >>>> driver, in a long time, that thought you needed to pay a fee for
>> >>>> having the dog in the cab.
>> >>>> He even went as far as trying to tell me, that the sign on the
>> >>>> back window, told you how much extra it will be for the dog.
>> >>>> I finally gave up trying to explain to him, that there should not
>> >>>> be a extra charge, and said, well, if you are so inclined to
>> >>>> charge an extra fee, then I guess I will have to take it out of
>> >>>> your tip.
>> >>>> He backed off at that point, and when we got out of the vehicle,
>> >>>> I had someone read him the sign, of which it said, there is no
>> >>>> extra charge for service animals.
>> >>>> Here in my area, specifically the San Fernando Valley, a suburb
>> >>>> of Los Angeles, we really do not have issues, because I have
>> >>>> filed several complaints with the Department of Transportation,
>> >>>> as well as our Division, CAGDU, has worked very hard, around the
>> >>>> state, to inform the agencies that oversee the taxi cab
>> >>>> companies, that it is our right to travel with a service animal,
>> >>>> and because of the work we have done, a lot of the issues have
>> >>>> disappeared.
>> >>>> Once in a while, there will be a driver who thinks, he can get a
>> >>>> way with not picking you up, but the dispatchers can tell when
>> >>>> the driver is doing that, and they will suspend them, I have
>> >>>> actually heard them over the radio or while on the phone, telling
>> >>>> a driver they will need to bring their cab in, due to their
>> >>>> behavior towards a blind person.
>> >>>> So, it may be tedious for a while, but you have to file
>> >>>> complaints.
>> >>>> I hope this helps,
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Robert Stigile
>> >>>> E-mail: rstigile at sbcglobal.net
>> >>>> Skype: robertstigile1
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> ----- Original Message -----
>> >>>> From: "Marion Gwizdala" <blind411 at verizon.net
>> >>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
>> >>>> Users"<nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> >>>> Date sent: Tue, 07 Sep 2010 08:23:02 -0400
>> >>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Cab drivers in DC pass blind people with
>> >>>> guide dogs
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Will,
>> >>>>    There is no obligation, as I have stated, to inform the
>> >>>> company of the
>> >>>> presence of a guide dog.  Again, if you are refused access
>> >>>> because of your
>> >>>> guide dog, I strongly suggest you file complaints as widely as
>> >>>> possible.
>> >>>> this means with the agency that regulates the cab company, your
>> >>>> state's
>> >>>> human rights department, law enforcement, and the DOJ.  If you
>> >>>> ever need any
>> >>>> assistance, please do not hesitate to call upon me!
>> >>>>
>> >>>> fraternally yours,
>> >>>> Marion Gwizdala, President
>> >>>> National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> >>>> National Federation of the Blind
>> >>>> 813-626-2789
>> >>>> Blind411 at Verizon.net
>> >>>> HTTP://NAGDU.ORG
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> ----- Original Message -----
>> >>>> From: "William ODonnell" <william.odonnell1 at yahoo.com
>> >>>> To: "the National Association of Guide Dog UsersNAGDU Mailing
>> >>>> List"
>> >>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> >>>> Sent: Monday, September 06, 2010 7:21 PM
>> >>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Cab drivers in DC pass blind people with
>> >>>> guide dogs
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Many times, I have been told that they will not take people since
>> >>>> the
>> >>>> oporator did not inform the driver that there was a dog, etc.
>> >>>> The
>> >>>>
>> >>>> --- On Mon, 9/6/10, Marion Gwizdala <blind411 at verizon.net> wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>> From: Marion Gwizdala <blind411 at verizon.net
>> >>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Cab drivers in DC pass blind people with
>> >>>> guide dogs
>> >>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
>> >>>> Users"
>> >>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> >>>> Date: Monday, September 6, 2010, 2:11 PM
>> >>>> Will,
>> >>>> I'm not sure what you mean by needing to
>> >>>> "go on explaining and waiting for the approval of the
>> >>>> supervisor"! If you mean that you are advising them that you
>> >>>> will be accompanied by a guide dog, the way to resolve this
>> >>>> is to not tell them.  You are under no obligation to do so
>> >>>> under the law; likewise, they are obliged under the law to
>> >>>> transport you.  The presence of your guide dog is irrelevant,
>> >>>> so don't tell them!
>> >>>> What I did here in Tampa is to call about
>> >>>> ten minutes aftter my first call to check on whether or not
>> >>>> the call had ben dispatched.  Generally, they would tell me
>> >>>> what cab number was dispatched to pick me up.  If the cabbie
>> >>>> refused to carry me, I would advise him that I am blind and
>> >>>> my dog is a service animal.  If the driver continued in the
>> >>>> refusal, I would let him drive away so that there was a
>> >>>> clear refusal.  In Florida, violation of the law is a second
>> >>>> degree misdemeanor and, as per resolution 2010-25, it is now
>> >>>> the policy of the NFB to work for the same penalties in all
>> >>>> states.  File a complaint against the cabbie and against the
>> >>>> company.  The company may claim that they have no control
>> >>>> over their drivers if the drivers are independent
>> >>>> contractors; however, the law does not see it this way and,
>> >>>> when the owners of the cab companies find themselves paying
>> >>>> their high-priced attorneys to defend them against charges
>> >>>> of discrimination, they will start making some changes!
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Fraternally yours,
>> >>>> Marion Gwizdala
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "William ODonnell"
>> >>>> <william.odonnell1 at yahoo.com
>> >>>> To: "the National Association of Guide Dog UsersNAGDU
>> >>>> Mailing List" <nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> >>>> Sent: Monday, September 06, 2010 9:47 AM
>> >>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Cab drivers in DC pass blind people
>> >>>> with guide dogs
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> The same thing goes on here in NYC.  If you need a
>> >>>> cab, you can get a yellow cab in Manhattan; however, outside
>> >>>> the city, it is a hit or miss issue with the car
>> >>>> companies.  First, you need to call for the cab and go
>> >>>> on explaining and waiting for approval of the supervisors,
>> >>>> dispatchers, and drivers.  If you are trying to get a
>> >>>> cab on the street, well, good luck.  The yellow cabs I
>> >>>> mention above are the ones from the medallion Taxi and
>> >>>> limousine commission (TLC).  They will usually pick you
>> >>>> up; however, then you need to go on with the explanations
>> >>>> that the dog is a service dog and will not harm anyone
>> >>>> because very often you here the fear from the driver that
>> >>>> the dog may harm them.
>> >>>> --- On Sun, 9/5/10, Dan Weiner <dcwein at dcwein.cnc.net
>> >>>> wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>> From: Dan Weiner <dcwein at dcwein.cnc.net
>> >>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Cab drivers in DC pass blind
>> >>>> people with guide dogs
>> >>>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of
>> >>>> Guide Dog Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> >>>> Date: Sunday, September 5, 2010, 7:42 AM
>> >>>> Granted, Sherri, the wording is
>> >>>> regrettable, but the fact is we're not
>> >>>> going to win on some of these points and in the case
>> >>>> of the
>> >>>> article we'd be
>> >>>> missing the forest for the trees pointing that out,,
>> >>>> or however that goes.
>> >>>> At lease when I lived in Maryland I can tell you that
>> >>>> access was a problem
>> >>>> when it came to cabs.
>> >>>> And, those friends of mine who lived in DC would
>> >>>> confirm
>> >>>> the estimate of
>> >>>> half the drivers passing by or not taking you.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> This is the height of absurdity and even shameful,
>> >>>> that
>> >>>> we've had eighty
>> >>>> years of guide dog training here in the USA and it's
>> >>>> still
>> >>>> that way.
>> >>>> And like it or not, nine times out of ten in my neck
>> >>>> of the
>> >>>> woods in
>> >>>> Maryland it was people from the mid East, Africa and
>> >>>> Asia,
>> >>>> emigrants in
>> >>>> other words, who did the worst offending in this
>> >>>> regard.
>> >>>> This is the first
>> >>>> time in my life, sorry to say, that I started feeling
>> >>>> a
>> >>>> real hostility to
>> >>>> emigrants, who, in my way of thinking, were dishing
>> >>>> out to
>> >>>> people from here
>> >>>> worse treatment then they were getting.  They had jobs
>> >>>> and
>> >>>> could find them
>> >>>> quickly again, no skin off their nose to treat a
>> >>>> blind
>> >>>> person like dirt.
>> >>>> And, guys, don't start with me the old chorus of how
>> >>>> they're afraid of dogs,
>> >>>> etc.  I couldn't care less, it isn't a dog popularity
>> >>>> contest we're in here.
>> >>>> The reasons are immaterial to me, how to reverse this
>> >>>> trend
>> >>>> is what I'm
>> >>>> interested in.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Sad but true it was a lot of folks from other lands
>> >>>> who did
>> >>>> this.
>> >>>> .
>> >>>> Not that there weren't any good old native American
>> >>>> born, white and black
>> >>>> guys, who had their chance to step up to the plate and
>> >>>> be
>> >>>> butt holes because
>> >>>> there were.
>> >>>> So, you were lucky if you got drivers who knew you, or
>> >>>> I'd
>> >>>> take numbers of
>> >>>> cabbies I liked and give them some business on the
>> >>>> side,
>> >>>> but frankly, the
>> >>>> fact that we have to do that means there's something
>> >>>> seriously wrong.
>> >>>> I mention that because some blind friends there said
>> >>>> rather superciliously,
>> >>>> "well, what I do is make sure I get the drivers who
>> >>>> don't
>> >>>> mind dogs".  I'm
>> >>>> beating my head against a wall, here, guys, but the
>> >>>> cabbies
>> >>>> are supposed to
>> >>>> take us, ain't up to us to get a little black book of
>> >>>> people who decide it's
>> >>>> convenient to follow the law.
>> >>>> Now, here in Florida, I've only taken a few cabs
>> >>>> recently
>> >>>> as I'm trying to
>> >>>> save money, so what can you tell me about access here,
>> >>>> or
>> >>>> Marian in Tampa,
>> >>>> etc?
>> >>>>
>> >>>> There would be only two reasons that at some point I
>> >>>> decide
>> >>>> not to choose a
>> >>>> guide dog as my main means of mobility:
>> >>>> 1.  It's hard on me to see them get old and so on,
>> >>>> very hard.
>> >>>> 2.  This access situation.
>> >>>> When I call a cab, I should not have to have my heart
>> >>>> in my
>> >>>> mouth wondering
>> >>>> whether they're going to see me and drive away.  One
>> >>>> of the drivers who
>> >>>> liked me told me that several of them who didn't like
>> >>>> dogs
>> >>>> would just not
>> >>>> come if they knew it was a dog user and say they came
>> >>>> and I
>> >>>> wasn't there, or
>> >>>> other little tricks.
>> >>>> In Prince George's County, Maryland, the company had
>> >>>> some
>> >>>> GPs system whereby
>> >>>> they could tell which driver was nearest to whatever
>> >>>> location I was calling
>> >>>> from and he would be assigned.  Now, that would mean I
>> >>>> could very often and
>> >>>> would get a person for whatever reason, decided to
>> >>>> drive
>> >>>> away or in some
>> >>>> other way treat me like the scum of the Earth because
>> >>>> I
>> >>>> dare to want to be
>> >>>> independent and use a guide dog.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Of course they're computers, the cab company's may not
>> >>>> be
>> >>>> the most accurate,
>> >>>> I called once from my cell phone when at Dunkin''
>> >>>> Doughnuts
>> >>>> and every time I
>> >>>> called from my cell they'd say "Oh, we'll send
>> >>>> someone to the Dunkin'
>> >>>> Doughnuts, and I had to make sure they got it before
>> >>>> they
>> >>>> hung up.
>> >>>> One day I got really frustrated and said, I don't care
>> >>>> who
>> >>>> you send but make
>> >>>> it someone who understands English and make sure
>> >>>> they're
>> >>>> not an idiot."
>> >>>> I swear, one of the cab drivers thought this was
>> >>>> funny
>> >>>> because whatever
>> >>>> dispatcher had put that under my phone number on the
>> >>>> computer, so it would
>> >>>> come up as "has a guide dog, wants someone who
>> >>>> understands
>> >>>> English, doesn't
>> >>>> want an idiot.".
>> >>>> Still, all of those qualifications didn't help
>> >>>> sometimes--smile
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Rant over
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Dan W.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> _______________________________________________
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>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
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>> >>>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> -- 
>> >>> ~Jewel
>> >>> Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind!
>> >>> Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com
>> >>>
>> >>> _______________________________________________
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