[nagdu] should guides be given a second ownerifitdoesn'tworkout with the first owner?

Fri Apr 15 18:20:07 UTC 2011

Hi Sarah.
I don't think I buy your argument.  There could be plenty of undesirable
behaviors I might never think to mention.  For example, Ben empties on
route.  The best I've managed to do is teach him to pull over first.  To
me, this is a very undesirable behavior, but it did not occur to me during
the matching process to say so, any more than I would think to mention to
a shoe salesman that I don't want my shoe laces coming untied every 5
minutes.
Personally, I'd like to at least be made aware of any undesirable behavior
the school is aware of, so I could either take immediate steps to correct
it, or decide I don't want to deal with it at all.  You can bet, next
time, I'll say very loudly that I don't want a dog who empties on route. 
Then they'll probably give me a counter surfer instead. <grimace.>
Tracy

> Hi Peggy,
> Thinking about it, you probably don't even really need to know why the
> match
> didn't work, if its not something that is going to impact you.  The only
> reason I can think of that a handler would need to know is if the dog has
> some kind of medical condition where it is going to need prescription dog
> food, or baths every couple weeks, or something else that is going to be a
> real hassel and/or cost a lot more money than usual.  But then again, I'd
> think a handler should know this about any dog regardless if its a reissue
> or not.
> As long as the reissue matches what the new handler wants, and the handler
> is specific in what they want, there shouldn't be any problems. If the
> previous handler returned the dog because they didn't like something such
> as
> that the dog scavenged a lot or counter surfed, etc, that shouldn't matter
> too much either because if the new handler specifically doesn't want to
> deal
> with a major food distraction issue, they'd want to request a dog that
> isn't
> too food distracted, or ideally, who doesn't have a food distraction
> problem
> at all.
>
> Sarah & Miguel
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Peggy" <pshald at neb.rr.com>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, April 15, 2011 6:29 AM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] should guides be given a second
> ownerifitdoesn'tworkout
> with the first owner?
>
>
>> That's just it, you have no idea why the match didn't work, I'd be
>> curious
>> to find out, but schools don't always provide that information.  My
>> current Seeing Eye dog is a reissued dog and she is one of the best dogs
>> I
>> have ever had.  As I said I'll always wonder why her previous match
>> didn't
>> work out but she is wonderful ... she was taken back to the school,
>> re-evaluated and whatever else they have to do.  She lived in one of the
>> instructor's offices for supervision for quite a while.  It was
>> determined
>> that she was still workable and was then matched with me and it's turned
>> out wonderful.
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Sarah Clark
>> Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2011 10:15 PM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] should guides be given a second owner
>> ifitdoesn'tworkout with the first owner?
>>
>> I don't think you can turn down all reissues, or classify them all in
>> the
>> same category.  True that an occasional dog that is a reissue may have
>> been
>> sent back for unpleasant reasons like being too hard to handle for the
>> handler, or certain health conditions that wouldn't stop the dog from
>> working but that the handler didn't want to deal with, etc, but many of
>> them
>> are sent back for reasons that are not negative at all.  Maybe the dog
>> just
>> walked too fast for the handler and they got home and realized this and
>> that
>> they couldn't slow the dog down (this happened to my husband with a
>> guide
>> many years ago).  Maybe it just wasn't a good match.  Or maybe the
>> person
>> lived in a very hot climate and the dog just couldn't handle the extreme
>> heat (also happened with someone I know).
>> I wouldn't think twice about taking a reissue if the school thinks the
>> dog
>> is a good match for me and what I'm looking for.  Its also true that
>> they
>> have the experience under their belt so are often more seasoned than the
>> younger dogs.  Though it is clear that some applicants don't want them
>> because each school I have applied to has asked during the interview if
>> I'd
>> be open to having one.
>>
>> Sarah & Miguel
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Lyn Gwizdak" <linda.gwizdak at cox.net>
>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2011 3:01 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] should guides be given a second owner if
>> itdoesn'tworkout with the first owner?
>>
>>
>>>I know a guy who had a guide who had been reissued.  This dog was with a
>>>guy who got himself arrested and a jail term and the dog was taken from
>>>him and my friend got this same dog.  Boy, what stories this dog could
>>>have told if he could talk!  It was a very nice dog and she worked well
>>>for my friend and she had a good long working life.
>>>
>>> Lyn and Landon
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Lisa Irving" <lirving1234 at cox.net>
>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2011 1:24 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] should guides be given a second owner if it
>>> doesn'tworkout with the first owner?
>>>
>>>
>>>> Hi there, Tami and Brittney,
>>>>
>>>> The more I contemplate the re issuance of a guide dog, I keep thinking
>>>> how much it means to me when someone gives me a second chance. Our
>>>> dogs
>>>> deserve as many chances as we can give them; first time out, or re
>>>> issued.
>>>>
>>>> Lisa and Bernie
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Tamara Smith-Kinney" <tamara.8024 at comcast.net>
>>>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2011 10:36 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] should guides be given a second owner if it
>>>> doesn'twork out with the first owner?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Brittney,
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm glad you asked this question.  That's one of those program
>>>>> policies
>>>>> I
>>>>> ran across while researching for owner-training, and my first
>>>>> response
>>>>> to
>>>>> the notion was very negative.
>>>>>
>>>>> Since then, I've heard of enough positive experience with dogs who
>>>>> were
>>>>> reissued after being returned to have a more favorable view of the
>>>>> practice.
>>>>> Most of what I've heard is from people who have done well with
>>>>> re-issued
>>>>> dogs or from people who know people...  /smile/  Still, I get it more
>>>>> now
>>>>> and understand the reasoning others have explained, and it does seem
>>>>> to
>>>>> work
>>>>> for the most part.  There will certainly be times when it doesn't,
>>>>> but
>>>>> that
>>>>> is true of matches in general.
>>>>>
>>>>> As for whether you're over-reacting...  As a still pretty new and
>>>>> only
>>>>> somewhat experienced guide dog handler, also an owner-trainer then
>>>>> self-taught handler, I've been observing the attitudes and ways of
>>>>> thinking
>>>>> of handlers at or just above my level of experience as closely as I
>>>>> have
>>>>> those of the long-timers.  I can watch my peers in that regard to
>>>>> give
>>>>> myself a reality check as to how I'm coming along not just in skill
>>>>> but
>>>>> in
>>>>> maturity as a handler while I'm learning from those with much more
>>>>> experience.
>>>>>
>>>>> So here's my observation, based not just on myself but on a
>>>>> generalized
>>>>> group of other first time handlers going through or just coming past
>>>>> the
>>>>> team building phase:  We over-react.  To everything.  /lol/  The
>>>>> good,
>>>>> the
>>>>> bad, the mundane...  It is all new and exciting and frightening and
>>>>> wonderful and awful, all beyond belief.  We popped out to dinner just
>>>>> this
>>>>> evening, and at the restaurant there was just this one little thing
>>>>> that no
>>>>> one would have noticed beyond our table...  Outwardly, I remained
>>>>> calm
>>>>> and
>>>>> responded correctly and it was all okay.  Inwardly, what did I do?
>>>>> /lol/
>>>>> OMG!  How can this be?  What can it mean?  Oh, no, this is so
>>>>> terrible!
>>>>> Then I noticed nothing had actually happened that was worth all the
>>>>> fuss and
>>>>> got over it.  /smile/  More and more, it's all old hat, but
>>>>> apparently
>>>>> I can
>>>>> still freak out just fine over absolutely nothing.
>>>>>
>>>>> As for working through bad habits in your re-issue dog...  I think
>>>>> others
>>>>> are right in their observations that during the first year or so,
>>>>> there
>>>>> will
>>>>> always be something that will make you absolutely crazy about your
>>>>> dog.
>>>>> In
>>>>> your first dog, these will be far more magnified in your own mind
>>>>> than
>>>>> in
>>>>> those you work with later on as a truly experience dhandler.  The bad
>>>>> habits
>>>>> need to be dealt with and modified, certainly, but it's not really
>>>>> habit for
>>>>> you yet to deal with those ups and downs.  So you really have to
>>>>> think
>>>>> your
>>>>> way through it and notice every little thing and try to figure out
>>>>> how
>>>>> to
>>>>> counteract and...  Well, on and on.  It just takes awhile for all of
>>>>> that to
>>>>> become havit and natural.  I've only been there for a short while --
>>>>> with
>>>>> minor blips where I freak out over nothing -- and that sure is nice!
>>>>>
>>>>> Good luck with your dog; sounds like you're coming through the tream
>>>>> building phase and are starting on the next one -- which is where it
>>>>> all
>>>>> falls together and you're just you working your guide.  /smile/  I'm
>>>>> loving
>>>>> that, and trying to hold onto that feeling as I move into the taking
>>>>> it
>>>>> all
>>>>> for granted phase.
>>>>>
>>>>> Tami Smith-Kinney
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>>> Behalf
>>>>> Of Brittney N. Mejico
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2011 3:20 PM
>>>>> To: the National Association of Guide Dog Users NAGDU Mailing List
>>>>> Subject: [nagdu] should guides be given a second owner if it doesn't
>>>>> work
>>>>> out with the first owner?
>>>>>
>>>>> Hello all,
>>>>> My dog had another handler before me.  I don't think that guides
>>>>> should
>>>>> be
>>>>> given another handlerbecause the dog picksup a lot of bad habits and
>>>>> they
>>>>> are  really hard to get rid of.  I love my  dog very muchand harvard
>>>>> has
>>>>> changed my life, but it took me a year to stop a lot of her bad
>>>>> habbits, and
>>>>> we still have some work to do.  What do you guys think? am I over
>>>>> reacting?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>
>>>>
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>>
>>
>> Dream as if you'll live forever, live as if you'll die today.
>>
>>
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