[nagdu] should guides be given a second ownerifitdoesn'tworkout with the first owner?

Sarah Clark goldflash9 at sbcglobal.net
Fri Apr 15 18:25:49 UTC 2011 

Hi Tracy,
I was just comparing it to what we know about the guides we receive who are 
not reissues.  They normally don't tell us about those things when we 
receive a nonreissue, so I wouldn't really expect them to for a reissue just 
because it was a reissue.

Sarah & Miguel


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Tracy Carcione" <carcione at access.net>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, April 15, 2011 11:20 AM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] should guides be given a second ownerifitdoesn'tworkout 
with the first owner?


> Hi Sarah.
> I don't think I buy your argument.  There could be plenty of undesirable
> behaviors I might never think to mention.  For example, Ben empties on
> route.  The best I've managed to do is teach him to pull over first.  To
> me, this is a very undesirable behavior, but it did not occur to me during
> the matching process to say so, any more than I would think to mention to
> a shoe salesman that I don't want my shoe laces coming untied every 5
> minutes.
> Personally, I'd like to at least be made aware of any undesirable behavior
> the school is aware of, so I could either take immediate steps to correct
> it, or decide I don't want to deal with it at all.  You can bet, next
> time, I'll say very loudly that I don't want a dog who empties on route.
> Then they'll probably give me a counter surfer instead. <grimace.>
> Tracy
>
>
>> Hi Peggy,
>> Thinking about it, you probably don't even really need to know why the
>> match
>> didn't work, if its not something that is going to impact you.  The only
>> reason I can think of that a handler would need to know is if the dog has
>> some kind of medical condition where it is going to need prescription dog
>> food, or baths every couple weeks, or something else that is going to be 
>> a
>> real hassel and/or cost a lot more money than usual.  But then again, I'd
>> think a handler should know this about any dog regardless if its a 
>> reissue
>> or not.
>> As long as the reissue matches what the new handler wants, and the 
>> handler
>> is specific in what they want, there shouldn't be any problems. If the
>> previous handler returned the dog because they didn't like something such
>> as
>> that the dog scavenged a lot or counter surfed, etc, that shouldn't 
>> matter
>> too much either because if the new handler specifically doesn't want to
>> deal
>> with a major food distraction issue, they'd want to request a dog that
>> isn't
>> too food distracted, or ideally, who doesn't have a food distraction
>> problem
>> at all.
>>
>> Sarah & Miguel
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Peggy" <pshald at neb.rr.com>
>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Friday, April 15, 2011 6:29 AM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] should guides be given a second
>> ownerifitdoesn'tworkout
>> with the first owner?
>>
>>
>>> That's just it, you have no idea why the match didn't work, I'd be
>>> curious
>>> to find out, but schools don't always provide that information.  My
>>> current Seeing Eye dog is a reissued dog and she is one of the best dogs
>>> I
>>> have ever had.  As I said I'll always wonder why her previous match
>>> didn't
>>> work out but she is wonderful ... she was taken back to the school,
>>> re-evaluated and whatever else they have to do.  She lived in one of the
>>> instructor's offices for supervision for quite a while.  It was
>>> determined
>>> that she was still workable and was then matched with me and it's turned
>>> out wonderful.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Sarah Clark
>>> Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2011 10:15 PM
>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] should guides be given a second owner
>>> ifitdoesn'tworkout with the first owner?
>>>
>>> I don't think you can turn down all reissues, or classify them all in
>>> the
>>> same category.  True that an occasional dog that is a reissue may have
>>> been
>>> sent back for unpleasant reasons like being too hard to handle for the
>>> handler, or certain health conditions that wouldn't stop the dog from
>>> working but that the handler didn't want to deal with, etc, but many of
>>> them
>>> are sent back for reasons that are not negative at all.  Maybe the dog
>>> just
>>> walked too fast for the handler and they got home and realized this and
>>> that
>>> they couldn't slow the dog down (this happened to my husband with a
>>> guide
>>> many years ago).  Maybe it just wasn't a good match.  Or maybe the
>>> person
>>> lived in a very hot climate and the dog just couldn't handle the extreme
>>> heat (also happened with someone I know).
>>> I wouldn't think twice about taking a reissue if the school thinks the
>>> dog
>>> is a good match for me and what I'm looking for.  Its also true that
>>> they
>>> have the experience under their belt so are often more seasoned than the
>>> younger dogs.  Though it is clear that some applicants don't want them
>>> because each school I have applied to has asked during the interview if
>>> I'd
>>> be open to having one.
>>>
>>> Sarah & Miguel
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Lyn Gwizdak" <linda.gwizdak at cox.net>
>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2011 3:01 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] should guides be given a second owner if
>>> itdoesn'tworkout with the first owner?
>>>
>>>
>>>>I know a guy who had a guide who had been reissued.  This dog was with a
>>>>guy who got himself arrested and a jail term and the dog was taken from
>>>>him and my friend got this same dog.  Boy, what stories this dog could
>>>>have told if he could talk!  It was a very nice dog and she worked well
>>>>for my friend and she had a good long working life.
>>>>
>>>> Lyn and Landon
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Lisa Irving" <lirving1234 at cox.net>
>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2011 1:24 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] should guides be given a second owner if it
>>>> doesn'tworkout with the first owner?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Hi there, Tami and Brittney,
>>>>>
>>>>> The more I contemplate the re issuance of a guide dog, I keep thinking
>>>>> how much it means to me when someone gives me a second chance. Our
>>>>> dogs
>>>>> deserve as many chances as we can give them; first time out, or re
>>>>> issued.
>>>>>
>>>>> Lisa and Bernie
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Tamara Smith-Kinney" <tamara.8024 at comcast.net>
>>>>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2011 10:36 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] should guides be given a second owner if it
>>>>> doesn'twork out with the first owner?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Brittney,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm glad you asked this question.  That's one of those program
>>>>>> policies
>>>>>> I
>>>>>> ran across while researching for owner-training, and my first
>>>>>> response
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> the notion was very negative.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Since then, I've heard of enough positive experience with dogs who
>>>>>> were
>>>>>> reissued after being returned to have a more favorable view of the
>>>>>> practice.
>>>>>> Most of what I've heard is from people who have done well with
>>>>>> re-issued
>>>>>> dogs or from people who know people...  /smile/  Still, I get it more
>>>>>> now
>>>>>> and understand the reasoning others have explained, and it does seem
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> work
>>>>>> for the most part.  There will certainly be times when it doesn't,
>>>>>> but
>>>>>> that
>>>>>> is true of matches in general.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As for whether you're over-reacting...  As a still pretty new and
>>>>>> only
>>>>>> somewhat experienced guide dog handler, also an owner-trainer then
>>>>>> self-taught handler, I've been observing the attitudes and ways of
>>>>>> thinking
>>>>>> of handlers at or just above my level of experience as closely as I
>>>>>> have
>>>>>> those of the long-timers.  I can watch my peers in that regard to
>>>>>> give
>>>>>> myself a reality check as to how I'm coming along not just in skill
>>>>>> but
>>>>>> in
>>>>>> maturity as a handler while I'm learning from those with much more
>>>>>> experience.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So here's my observation, based not just on myself but on a
>>>>>> generalized
>>>>>> group of other first time handlers going through or just coming past
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> team building phase:  We over-react.  To everything.  /lol/  The
>>>>>> good,
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> bad, the mundane...  It is all new and exciting and frightening and
>>>>>> wonderful and awful, all beyond belief.  We popped out to dinner just
>>>>>> this
>>>>>> evening, and at the restaurant there was just this one little thing
>>>>>> that no
>>>>>> one would have noticed beyond our table...  Outwardly, I remained
>>>>>> calm
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> responded correctly and it was all okay.  Inwardly, what did I do?
>>>>>> /lol/
>>>>>> OMG!  How can this be?  What can it mean?  Oh, no, this is so
>>>>>> terrible!
>>>>>> Then I noticed nothing had actually happened that was worth all the
>>>>>> fuss and
>>>>>> got over it.  /smile/  More and more, it's all old hat, but
>>>>>> apparently
>>>>>> I can
>>>>>> still freak out just fine over absolutely nothing.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As for working through bad habits in your re-issue dog...  I think
>>>>>> others
>>>>>> are right in their observations that during the first year or so,
>>>>>> there
>>>>>> will
>>>>>> always be something that will make you absolutely crazy about your
>>>>>> dog.
>>>>>> In
>>>>>> your first dog, these will be far more magnified in your own mind
>>>>>> than
>>>>>> in
>>>>>> those you work with later on as a truly experience dhandler.  The bad
>>>>>> habits
>>>>>> need to be dealt with and modified, certainly, but it's not really
>>>>>> habit for
>>>>>> you yet to deal with those ups and downs.  So you really have to
>>>>>> think
>>>>>> your
>>>>>> way through it and notice every little thing and try to figure out
>>>>>> how
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> counteract and...  Well, on and on.  It just takes awhile for all of
>>>>>> that to
>>>>>> become havit and natural.  I've only been there for a short while --
>>>>>> with
>>>>>> minor blips where I freak out over nothing -- and that sure is nice!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Good luck with your dog; sounds like you're coming through the tream
>>>>>> building phase and are starting on the next one -- which is where it
>>>>>> all
>>>>>> falls together and you're just you working your guide.  /smile/  I'm
>>>>>> loving
>>>>>> that, and trying to hold onto that feeling as I move into the taking
>>>>>> it
>>>>>> all
>>>>>> for granted phase.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Tami Smith-Kinney
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>>>> Behalf
>>>>>> Of Brittney N. Mejico
>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2011 3:20 PM
>>>>>> To: the National Association of Guide Dog Users NAGDU Mailing List
>>>>>> Subject: [nagdu] should guides be given a second owner if it doesn't
>>>>>> work
>>>>>> out with the first owner?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hello all,
>>>>>> My dog had another handler before me.  I don't think that guides
>>>>>> should
>>>>>> be
>>>>>> given another handlerbecause the dog picksup a lot of bad habits and
>>>>>> they
>>>>>> are  really hard to get rid of.  I love my  dog very muchand harvard
>>>>>> has
>>>>>> changed my life, but it took me a year to stop a lot of her bad
>>>>>> habbits, and
>>>>>> we still have some work to do.  What do you guys think? am I over
>>>>>> reacting?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nagdu mailing list
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>>>>
>>>>
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>>>
>>> Dream as if you'll live forever, live as if you'll die today.
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