[nagdu] should guides be given a second owner if it doesn'tworkout with the first owner?
Julie J
julielj at neb.rr.com
Sat Apr 16 01:59:01 UTC 2011
* and relieved to learn that the other
owner-trainers I've met now and gotten to know are just ridiculously sane.*
ROFLOL That just made my day!
Julie
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brittney N. Mejico" <brittneymejico at verizon.net>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, April 15, 2011 8:27 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] should guides be given a second owner if it
doesn'tworkout with the first owner?
> Tami
> Thanks for answering my questions!
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tamara Smith-Kinney
> Sent: Friday, April 15, 2011 3:48 PM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] should guides be given a second owner if it
> doesn'tworkout with the first owner?
>
> Brittney,
>
> Thanks for asking! There are a few others on this list, all of whom have
> more experience than I, so I learned a lot from them. I was shocked to
> discover that I wasn't the only crazy nut to even contemplate doing such a
> thing in the first place, and relieved to learn that the other
> owner-trainers I've met now and gotten to know are just ridiculously sane.
> /smile/
>
> As for certification,.that isn't needed and doesn't exist, despite many
> people's belief that it is. The guide dog programs must be certified to
> train and provide dogs, and maybe to raise funds, as well. I don't know
> the
> ins and outs there, but they have to meet certain standards, and so do the
> trainers. Many, if not most, will provide a certification of some sort to
> their graduates, which I hear can come in handy in dealing with access
> disputes. /smile/
>
> As for how I taught her... The short answer is applied operant
> conditioning. /smile/ Clicker training is the most familiar method of
> doing that, and I did finally get me one and now can't go anywhere with
> out
> it! I use positive reinforcement almost exclusively, which as it turns
> out
> makes training even the complex behaviors and all the other stuff required
> for guide work almost embarrassingly easy. /lol/ If you consider 19
> months
> of 24/7 nonstop thinking and speaking and reading about and doing nothing
> else easy. Another thing I have noticed in other owner-trainers is that
> they love it so much it never occurs to them to think of any of this as
> work. /grin/
>
> Julie explains the process of devising and following a training plan much
> better than I. Basically, very basically, you start by thinking of the
> behaviors and even attitudes that you want in your finished dog. Then you
> work your way backward to break each facet down to its most basic parts.
> Then you start with the component behaviors and slowly build them into
> behavior chains, then more complex chains and so on as your dog and you
> are
> ready to advance. Er... That may sound clumsy the way I describe it. It
> actually makes sense once you start doing it. /smile/
>
> Training and then working around Portland, Oregon, I've been pleased to
> have
> relatively few even minor hassles over access. When I was training, I
> made
> private arrangements with local store and restaurants so that I could
> bring
> her in for socialization and training in those environments. They were
> really great! I made sure to include in my pitch that I would remove my
> pup
> if her behavior became disruptive, would pay for any merchandise she ate,
> etc. I also admitted that I was new to blindness and was still learning
> how
> to keep track of the wiggly, bouncing, curious, busy mass of black curls
> at
> the end of the leash and invited them to feel free to let me know if she
> was
> doing something she shouldn't that I missesd. I'm happy to report no
> disasters, despite months of providing huge amusement to staff and
> customers
> alike. It's a good thing that poodle is cute, that's all I can say. I
> still have lingering trauma from the nightmares I had in which things did
> not go so well. /lol/
>
> When we were ready to expand our activities because she was working well
> enough, if in a still limited capacity, in harness, I did get a few minor
> hassles but was able to resolve them on my own. Whew! Mostly, it was
> over
> the lack of a green vest. Portland is GDB territory -- Boring, where they
> have a campus, is a suburb or close to -- and the green vests the pups and
> guides in training wear are a familiar sight. As is the GDB harness on
> the
> teams in training. They're almost entirely a lab school now, so the lab
> guide is now what people expect around here. Someone not too long ago was
> exclaiming over my poodle (I didn't know they used those for that!) and
> went
> right exclaiming about seeing a shepherd as a guide. He didn't know they
> used those for that, either. /smile/ I generally hear the same
> misconception as, "I thought they only used labrador retrievers for that."
>
> So GDB's PR in the area and the familiarity of the populace with their
> pups,
> trainees, new teams in training and the local working guides from GDB has
> been a plus for me overall, while providing me with some amusement and
> only
> a little aggravation about having to explain about the vests when I
> venture
> beyond my home turf.
>
> Tami Smith-Kinney
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Brittney N. Mejico
> Sent: Friday, April 15, 2011 2:11 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] should guides be given a second owner if it
> doesn'tworkout with the first owner?
>
> Hi Tami .
> Thanks now I know that I'm not the only one who feels that way. Omg I have
> so many questions about the do it yourself guide dog training. How did you
> teach your dog to be a guide? How did you get her certified? do places
> you
> take her to hastle you because you didn't get her at a guide school?
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tamara Smith-Kinney
> Sent: Friday, April 15, 2011 10:35 AM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] should guides be given a second owner if it
> doesn'tworkout with the first owner?
>
> Brittney,
>
> Don't worry, you are not alone in being a new guide dog user who freaks
> out
> over every little thing. I was my guide dog's -- and my own -- program,
> trainer and instructor. Sooner or later, you suddenly notice that you're
> just going along and haven't had anything to freak out over for a long
> time.
> Me, when that happens, I kinda freak out. But I guess that's just the
> kind
> of gal I am. /grin/
>
> Thanks for starting such an interesting discussion!
>
> Tami Smith-Kinney
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Brittney N. Mejico
> Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2011 3:46 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] should guides be given a second owner if it
> doesn'tworkout with the first owner?
>
> You are all ausome!
> Thanks for all of your help. I have given everything that all of you
> have
> said some thought and the positive outweigh the negative and I hate using
> a
> cane. Dogs are amazing, I can't immagion my life without Harvard the more
> I
>
> think about it. She has prevented me from getting hit by a car, a car
> came
>
> out of no where and she reacted perfectly. The more I think about
> everything I have no reason to complain. Yes I totallywas over reacting.
> Every dog has it falts like every human, they will make mistakes and so
> will
>
> we. I am learning to relax things happen. I am a new guide dog user and
> every new thing my dog does that the school didn't talk about totally
> freaks
>
> me out. Sometimes I wish that the class would have been longer. I guess
> the schools can't teach us everything some things we have to learn on our
> own. All of you have been so helpful I can't thank you enough for your
> wonderful advice.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Lyn Gwizdak
> Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2011 3:01 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] should guides be given a second owner if it
> doesn'tworkout with the first owner?
>
> I know a guy who had a guide who had been reissued. This dog was with a
> guy
> who got himself arrested and a jail term and the dog was taken from him
> and
> my friend got this same dog. Boy, what stories this dog could have told
> if
> he could talk! It was a very nice dog and she worked well for my friend
> and
> she had a good long working life.
>
> Lyn and Landon
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Lisa Irving" <lirving1234 at cox.net>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2011 1:24 AM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] should guides be given a second owner if it
> doesn'tworkout with the first owner?
>
>
>> Hi there, Tami and Brittney,
>>
>> The more I contemplate the re issuance of a guide dog, I keep thinking
>> how
>
>> much it means to me when someone gives me a second chance. Our dogs
>> deserve as many chances as we can give them; first time out, or re
>> issued.
>>
>> Lisa and Bernie
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Tamara Smith-Kinney" <tamara.8024 at comcast.net>
>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2011 10:36 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] should guides be given a second owner if it
>> doesn'twork out with the first owner?
>>
>>
>>> Brittney,
>>>
>>> I'm glad you asked this question. That's one of those program policies
>>> I
>>> ran across while researching for owner-training, and my first response
>>> to
>>> the notion was very negative.
>>>
>>> Since then, I've heard of enough positive experience with dogs who were
>>> reissued after being returned to have a more favorable view of the
>>> practice.
>>> Most of what I've heard is from people who have done well with re-issued
>>> dogs or from people who know people... /smile/ Still, I get it more
>>> now
>>> and understand the reasoning others have explained, and it does seem to
>>> work
>>> for the most part. There will certainly be times when it doesn't, but
>>> that
>>> is true of matches in general.
>>>
>>> As for whether you're over-reacting... As a still pretty new and only
>>> somewhat experienced guide dog handler, also an owner-trainer then
>>> self-taught handler, I've been observing the attitudes and ways of
>>> thinking
>>> of handlers at or just above my level of experience as closely as I have
>>> those of the long-timers. I can watch my peers in that regard to give
>>> myself a reality check as to how I'm coming along not just in skill but
>>> in
>>> maturity as a handler while I'm learning from those with much more
>>> experience.
>>>
>>> So here's my observation, based not just on myself but on a generalized
>>> group of other first time handlers going through or just coming past the
>>> team building phase: We over-react. To everything. /lol/ The good,
>>> the
>>> bad, the mundane... It is all new and exciting and frightening and
>>> wonderful and awful, all beyond belief. We popped out to dinner just
>>> this
>>> evening, and at the restaurant there was just this one little thing that
>>> no
>>> one would have noticed beyond our table... Outwardly, I remained calm
>>> and
>>> responded correctly and it was all okay. Inwardly, what did I do?
>>> /lol/
>>> OMG! How can this be? What can it mean? Oh, no, this is so terrible!
>>> Then I noticed nothing had actually happened that was worth all the fuss
>>> and
>>> got over it. /smile/ More and more, it's all old hat, but apparently I
>>> can
>>> still freak out just fine over absolutely nothing.
>>>
>>> As for working through bad habits in your re-issue dog... I think
>>> others
>>> are right in their observations that during the first year or so, there
>>> will
>>> always be something that will make you absolutely crazy about your dog.
>>> In
>>> your first dog, these will be far more magnified in your own mind than
>>> in
>>> those you work with later on as a truly experience dhandler. The bad
>>> habits
>>> need to be dealt with and modified, certainly, but it's not really habit
>>> for
>>> you yet to deal with those ups and downs. So you really have to think
>>> your
>>> way through it and notice every little thing and try to figure out how
>>> to
>>> counteract and... Well, on and on. It just takes awhile for all of
>>> that
>
>>> to
>>> become havit and natural. I've only been there for a short while --
>>> with
>>> minor blips where I freak out over nothing -- and that sure is nice!
>>>
>>> Good luck with your dog; sounds like you're coming through the tream
>>> building phase and are starting on the next one -- which is where it all
>>> falls together and you're just you working your guide. /smile/ I'm
>>> loving
>>> that, and trying to hold onto that feeling as I move into the taking it
>>> all
>>> for granted phase.
>>>
>>> Tami Smith-Kinney
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>> Behalf
>>> Of Brittney N. Mejico
>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2011 3:20 PM
>>> To: the National Association of Guide Dog Users NAGDU Mailing List
>>> Subject: [nagdu] should guides be given a second owner if it doesn't
>>> work
>>> out with the first owner?
>>>
>>> Hello all,
>>> My dog had another handler before me. I don't think that guides should
>>> be
>>> given another handlerbecause the dog picksup a lot of bad habits and
>>> they
>>> are really hard to get rid of. I love my dog very muchand harvard has
>>> changed my life, but it took me a year to stop a lot of her bad habbits,
>>> and
>>> we still have some work to do. What do you guys think? am I over
>>> reacting?
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>
>>
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>
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