[nagdu] Bill of Rights statement Concerning Health, Temperment, & Behavior

Wed Apr 20 18:29:19 UTC 2011

Hi Lisa,
It is good you shared the story about your allergic dog and how you were 
treated by the school. I'm sure others have been through this very same type 
of thing.  Glad things are better and you are doing well with Bernie.

When I had my first dog from TSE - the shepherd named Brownie who I no 
longer had when we met in '91.  I had an awful time with her.  She wouldn't 
eat and was so thin that the County Animal Control was called by someone and 
they paid me a visit.  I wasn't angry that Animal control was called - it 
showed that someone cared to make that call based on my dog's thinness. I 
mean her ribs and hips showed!  But that dog wouldn't eat! No matter what I 
fed her.  The Animal Control officer was sympathetic and told me to try a 
dollop of cat food - it helped some.  Brownie was one of those shepherds 
that would yelp whenever she got a leash correction. Like I was killing her! 
It was so embarrassing!

After a real nasty dog attack on the streets of Chula Vista, she would growl 
at any dog she saw or even at the sound of jangling of keys or dog tags. 
She eventually developed chronic diarrarhia and farted so bad the rest of 
the time. I had to decide to send her back after two and a half years of 
this and trying all kinds of thigs TSE asked me to try.  Then I applied to 
GDA and got a Lab there in 1990.

It was 1997 when I went to TSE after a long chat with them about the 
problems I had with Brownie and the crap I endured from other guide dog 
users and the public - it was a wonder I went back for another dog after all 
that!

To show how good the Seeing Eye is, when I was there in '97, I talked to 
both the Director of Training and the head instructor at the time, they told 
me that none of what happened with Brownie was my fault.  They told me that 
they didn't take chances on a dog like her anymore.  Brownie would have made 
a great pet but she wasn't cut out to be a guide dog.  She definately had 
stomach issues that may have existed and got made worse by the stress of 
guide dog work.  Both the Director of Training and the head instructor knew 
that I was a good guide dog handler all along.  TSE has foound that some of 
these "borderline" dogs are better off being dropped from the program and it 
did save TSE money by just releasing these dogs then to put them out only to 
have them be returned by a graduate and then have to train that person with 
another dog.

I was so pleased with the sensitivity and caring and respect TSE showed me 
through all of this.  Even when I returned BRownie, the people at TSE NEVER 
made me feel like it was all my fault.  I had decided to go to GDA because I 
didn't feel comfortable with traveling by plane by myself across the 
country. I got Brownie when I was living on the east coast.  Well, I did 
learn that I could fly myself across the country and so well.  I just didn't 
have the confidence to do that.  Now, piece of cake - well sort of with all 
we have to go through to fly post 9/11! LOL!

Lisa, I can tell you more about this and how I was treated by the blind 
community folks over this - I don't know if I ever told you about this and 
their antics after I retired Olivia. (grin!)  Sometime when we are hanging 
out away from the blind center folks.

Lyn and Landon

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Lisa Irving" <lirving1234 at cox.net>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2011 10:31 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Bill of Rights statement Concerning Health, 
Temperment,& Behavior

> It's healing to share my story. For years I beat my self up about what I 
> didn't do for my dog.  And yes, the school's response played into how I 
> internalized things.
>
> When I called the school to inquire about my guide dog, I recall the 
> individual being icy and formal. I think this is a part of her personality 
> and not meant to be personal. However, it was personal for some years.
> Some affirmations and re assurances would have gone a very long way had 
> they been genuinely conveyed; or conveyed at all.
> Lisa and Bernie
> was that
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Tamara Smith-Kinney" <tamara.8024 at comcast.net>
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'" 
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2011 10:46 AM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Bill of Rights statement Concerning Health, 
> Temperment,& Behavior
>
>
>> Lisa,
>>
>> Painful story.  I'm sorry you had to go through it but am glad you have 
>> the
>> courage to share.  Others may be going through the same thing -- or 
>> will --
>> and knowing they're not alone may give them both comfort and strenghth. 
>> And
>> perhaps more information they can use to resolve their own 
>> issues/problems
>> before it's also too late.
>>
>> If I may ask, since you mentioned your guilt feelings -- do you recall 
>> how
>> many times, if any, the program trainer and/or staff told you that you 
>> were
>> the one doing things wrong.  I confess to being overly cynical in
>> automatically assuming that that was their first response to your 
>> concerns
>> about the behavior.  I just have noticed that those involved in resources
>> for PWDs, the consumer is always wrong and should be informed of that in 
>> the
>> most demeaning and even cruel way possible.  As many times as possible. 
>> I
>> don't understand this phenomenon, and I don't know if my understanding 
>> will
>> do anything at all for anybody on the receiving end, but ...  I still 
>> would
>> like to understand it in case I can figure out how to do something useful 
>> in
>> some way to prevent those same people carrying on doing that to the folks
>> they're being paid to serve.
>>
>> Which is why I'm happy NAGDU is following through on the creation of the
>> Bill of Rights.  Guide dogs are a resource -- provided by the charitable
>> donors known as funding sources -- so for all the really good people who 
>> do
>> as they should with character and intelligence and diligence to strong
>> ethics, there do appear to be an unfortunate percentage of bad apples. 
>> I'm
>> coming to the conclusion, based on consistent behavioral patterns across
>> organizations and resource types, that there's some sort of, I dunno,
>> personality type or something like that which is drawn into that sort of
>> work which has nothing to do with a desire to help anyone at all.  These
>> same personalities seem to be the first ones to go on about how grateful 
>> we
>> should be for the wonderful things they're doing for us, etc., etc., 
>> we've
>> all heard the whole spiel, when they're so clearly putting forth their 
>> best
>> efforts to ensure we don't receive the help they're being paid to give 
>> us...
>>
>> So I think it's important to share our individual stories and to 
>> communicate
>> our ideas with the increased freedom we have on the internet.  That's 
>> been
>> happening more and more, as a result of the earlier work of organizations
>> like the NFB -- primarily that of the NFB in our cases -- and that power 
>> to
>> interact and communicate gives us more power to add to those very
>> organizations.
>>
>> We can also communicate that the bad behavior is not okay and then work
>> collectively to make it more difficult for the bad apples to spread the 
>> rot.
>> Whew!
>>
>> Tami Smith-Kinney
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
>> Behalf
>> Of Lisa Irving
>> Sent: Monday, April 18, 2011 11:36 PM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Bill of Rights statement Concerning Health,
>> Temperment,& Behavior
>>
>> Marion,
>>
>> Without making things too complex, is there some way to include verbiage
>> about disclosing observations made by the puppy raiser family(s)? Here's 
>> the
>>
>> context to my question.
>>
>> The puppy raiser family informed  me about the dog allergies. The school
>> didn't know, or disregarded the puppy raiser's observations. I don't want 
>> to
>>
>> confuse "observations" with "opinions". One is measureable and can be
>> validated; observations. Again, it was the puppy raiser family that 
>> informed
>>
>> me, after my guide dog was released, of the school's findings and medical
>> intervention for the infections.
>>
>> Lisa and Bernie
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Marion Gwizdala" <blind411 at verizon.net>
>> To: "NAGDU List" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Monday, April 18, 2011 4:10 AM
>> Subject: [nagdu] Bill of Rights statement Concerning Health, Temperment,&
>> Behavior
>>
>>
>>> Dear All,
>>>    Here is the proposed language for the Bill of Rights, Please offer 
>>> any
>>> input or suggestions you may have.
>>>
>>> The training program shall fully disclose to the consumer, in writing 
>>> and
>>> in the accessible format of the consumer's choice, all known issues
>>> concerning the dog's health, temperament, behavior, and training prior 
>>> to
>>> placement.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Fraternally yours,
>>>
>>> Marion
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nagdu mailing list
>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nagdu:
>>>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/lirving1234%40cox.net
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> nagdu:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/tamara.8024%40comcast
>> .net
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> nagdu:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/lirving1234%40cox.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nagdu mailing list
> nagdu at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nagdu:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/linda.gwizdak%40cox.net 