[nagdu] Bill of Rights statement Concerning Health, Temperment, & Behavior

Tamara Smith-Kinney tamara.8024 at comcast.net
Thu Apr 21 15:57:41 UTC 2011


Your poodle-based confusions sound hauntingly familiar.  /grin/  I love that
your head trainer can discuss in a practical, common sense way how to
observe and figure out what you need to do that is not by the book -- or
that is in total opposition to the book -- to adapt to your puzzling new
partner instead of making yourself neurotic by just getting totally uptight
about every little thing.  /grin/

Hm...  I wish I could say the same thing about my own head trainer...  I
could talk to her any time I wanted, at length, without mincin words even,
but...  Fortunately even when neither of us could figure it out and started
to build up new and unheard of neuroses together, we were able to remain
relatively not uptight and to watch and see what happens the next day...

Now I'm so blasé about all those things I do or don't do that are written in
stone as canon law, I don't even notice and can't figure out why a labbie
guide user gets the willies if his/her dog doesn't eat breakfast...  Oh,
right.  Lab not poodle.  Labs eat; poodles pick.  Teehee.

I do still live in fear of the dreaded burst of sunshine and roses from the
back end of the poodle, though.  I just know she's goin to do that someday
at a 5-star restaurant or in the middle of an important meeting with
non-guide dog users whom I really want to impress or ...  So I'm a bit
neurotic about that.  /lol/

Tami Smith-Kinney

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2011 9:35 AM
To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Bill of Rights statement Concerning Health, Temperment,
& Behavior

Hi Lisa:

As a first time guide dog handler I was quite insecure about if I was doing
things right or wrong with Bogart. However, I am a person who researches
things when I am interested and don't know so I soon llearned that I need
not be insecure. I thought the trainers would have all the answers for me
but I have learned that sometimes they come up with real gems but most of
the time my common sense approach is the same as what they suggest. Also, I
had the learning curve of how dogs are and how my dog inparticular is. The
first time he threw up on our morning walk I was a bit flipped out but I
hadn't noticed him eating grass a couple of minutes before that. The fact
that he sometimes doesn't eat his food worried me to death but then I
learned he is a poodle and when he is stressed he chooses not to eat to make
his point I assume. The passive agressive poodle. :) I recall when I first
brought bogart home my girlfirend (who has had many dogs) and I got into a
bit of a discussion since she wanted to give Bogart some sort of yummy meat
and I said no, I was told not to do that with him. I ended up talking to
the head trainer at my school and he was very common sense. He basically
said, look dogs are dogs. We used to just give them our scraps. So yes, you
need to think about what you give him but odds are, if you do not over do
anything and pay attention to the out comes (which you get to pick up every
day) then you'll see what your dog can tolerate or not. I recall learning
that Bogart can't have  shrimps if I don't want to offend the world the next
day with the oders that he produces. The nextday at work was so
embarrassing. We sprayed the air deodorizer in my shared office but then we
learned that the deodorizers smell was too strong and we had to leave our
office because of that smell. In my next meeting Bogart let one go that had
us all gasping. the poor guy. :) So now I know about that.

Basically I've learned that I can ask the school for some assistance in the
same way I ask my questions on this list. However, no matter what anyone
says, in the end I weigh everyone's input and do what I feel is best for
Bogart and myself. Now I worry much less about Bogart and realize, with most
things, I need to see how he is the next day before I start thinking of
taking him to the vet. I have pretty low opinions of vets (heck, I have
pretty low opinions of doctors too <smile>).

Okay, now I'm rambling and can't recall why I was responding. :)

Enjoy the day

----- Original Message -----
From: Lisa Irving <lirving1234 at cox.net>
Date: Tuesday, April 19, 2011 10:37 pm
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Bill of Rights statement Concerning Health, Temperment,
& Behavior
To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>

> It's healing to share my story. For years I beat my self up 
> about what I didn't do for my dog.  And yes, the school's 
> response played into how I internalized things.
> When I called the school to inquire about my guide dog, I recall 
> the individual being icy and formal. I think this is a part of 
> her personality and not meant to be personal. However, it was 
> personal for some years.
> Some affirmations and re assurances would have gone a very long 
> way had they been genuinely conveyed; or conveyed at all.
> Lisa and Bernie
> was that
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tamara Smith-Kinney" 
> <tamara.8024 at comcast.net>To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the 
> National Association of Guide Dog Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2011 10:46 AM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Bill of Rights statement Concerning Health, 
> Temperment,& Behavior
> >Lisa,
> >
> >Painful story.  I'm sorry you had to go through it but am 
> glad you have the
> >courage to share.  Others may be going through the same 
> thing -- or will --
> >and knowing they're not alone may give them both comfort and 
> strenghth. And
> >perhaps more information they can use to resolve their own 
> issues/problems>before it's also too late.
> >
> >If I may ask, since you mentioned your guilt feelings -- do you 
> recall how
> >many times, if any, the program trainer and/or staff told you 
> that you were
> >the one doing things wrong.  I confess to being overly 
> cynical in
> >automatically assuming that that was their first response to 
> your concerns
> >about the behavior.  I just have noticed that those 
> involved in resources
> >for PWDs, the consumer is always wrong and should be informed 
> of that in the
> >most demeaning and even cruel way possible.  As many times 
> as possible.  I
> >don't understand this phenomenon, and I don't know if my 
> understanding will
> >do anything at all for anybody on the receiving end, but 
> ...  I still would
> >like to understand it in case I can figure out how to do 
> something useful in
> >some way to prevent those same people carrying on doing that to 
> the folks
> >they're being paid to serve.
> >
> >Which is why I'm happy NAGDU is following through on the 
> creation of the
> >Bill of Rights.  Guide dogs are a resource -- provided by 
> the charitable
> >donors known as funding sources -- so for all the really good 
> people who do
> >as they should with character and intelligence and diligence to 
> strong>ethics, there do appear to be an unfortunate percentage 
> of bad apples. I'm
> >coming to the conclusion, based on consistent behavioral 
> patterns across
> >organizations and resource types, that there's some sort of, I dunno,
> >personality type or something like that which is drawn into 
> that sort of
> >work which has nothing to do with a desire to help anyone at 
> all.  These
> >same personalities seem to be the first ones to go on about how 
> grateful we
> >should be for the wonderful things they're doing for us, etc., 
> etc., we've
> >all heard the whole spiel, when they're so clearly putting 
> forth their best
> >efforts to ensure we don't receive the help they're being paid 
> to give us...
> >
> >So I think it's important to share our individual stories and 
> to communicate
> >our ideas with the increased freedom we have on the 
> internet.  That's been
> >happening more and more, as a result of the earlier work of 
> organizations>like the NFB -- primarily that of the NFB in our 
> cases -- and that power to
> >interact and communicate gives us more power to add to those very
> >organizations.
> >
> >We can also communicate that the bad behavior is not okay and 
> then work
> >collectively to make it more difficult for the bad apples to 
> spread the rot.
> >Whew!
> >
> >Tami Smith-Kinney
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-
> bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> >Of Lisa Irving
> >Sent: Monday, April 18, 2011 11:36 PM
> >To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> >Subject: Re: [nagdu] Bill of Rights statement Concerning Health,
> >Temperment,& Behavior
> >
> >Marion,
> >
> >Without making things too complex, is there some way to include 
> verbiage>about disclosing observations made by the puppy raiser 
> family(s)? Here's the
> >
> >context to my question.
> >
> >The puppy raiser family informed  me about the dog 
> allergies. The school
> >didn't know, or disregarded the puppy raiser's observations. I 
> don't want to
> >
> >confuse "observations" with "opinions". One is measureable and 
> can be
> >validated; observations. Again, it was the puppy raiser family 
> that informed
> >
> >me, after my guide dog was released, of the school's findings 
> and medical
> >intervention for the infections.
> >
> >Lisa and Bernie
> >----- Original Message ----- From: "Marion Gwizdala" 
> <blind411 at verizon.net>>To: "NAGDU List" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> >Sent: Monday, April 18, 2011 4:10 AM
> >Subject: [nagdu] Bill of Rights statement Concerning Health, 
> Temperment,&>Behavior
> >
> >
> >>Dear All,
> >>   Here is the proposed language for the Bill of 
> Rights, Please offer any
> >>input or suggestions you may have.
> >>
> >>The training program shall fully disclose to the consumer, in 
> writing and
> >>in the accessible format of the consumer's choice, all known issues
> >>concerning the dog's health, temperament, behavior, and 
> training prior to
> >>placement.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>Fraternally yours,
> >>
> >>Marion
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>_______________________________________________
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> >>nagdu at nfbnet.org
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> >
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