[nagdu] Lisa and All: Bill of Rights
Tamara Smith-Kinney
tamara.8024 at comcast.net
Thu Apr 21 16:39:18 UTC 2011
Brittney,
Since JAWS pronounces my name as Tommy, I always have to remember to tell
people what it is to everyone else but JAWS: Tammy. I just don't spell it
that way.
So now I answer to Tommy, and I think I once heard myself introducing myself
to someone as Tommy. /lol/ I have sighted friends who have heard me
proofreading with JAWS when they come over who crack up every time, then
start calling me Tommy.
I've embarrassed myself by getting people and names confused a few times on
e-mail lists because I went with what I heard without checking. Um...
Apparently, I have special powers of being a complete dolt that way.
You are not alone! /grin/
Tami Smith-Kinney
-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Lyn Gwizdak
Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2011 9:44 AM
To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Lisa and All: Bill of Rights
Hahahaha! Yeah, wondered if you caught that female spelling, Marion! No
offense to you, Brittney, I just had to crack up over it.
While we're on the name thing, I'm Lyn with one n and my name is either male
or female.
Cheers,
Lyn and Landon
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brittney N. Mejico" <brittneymejico at verizon.net>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2011 8:40 AM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Lisa and All: Bill of Rights
> hi Marion ,
> I am so sorry. Next time I will be sure and check spelling
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Marion Gwizdala
> Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2011 5:23 AM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Lisa and All: Bill of Rights
>
> Brittney,
> I appreciate your support. I would also appreciate it if you would
> please take note of the spelling of the names of those to whom you write,
> as
> I believe doing so shows respect for the individual. I realize that screen
> reading software may pronounce Mariane and Marion very similarly; however,
> Mariane is always a female name, whereas Marion can be either. In my case,
> it is a male name. FYI, the generally accepted female form of my name is
> Marian, although some females have the same spelling as mine, e.g., Marion
> Ross, who played Mrs. Cunningham on Happy Days.
>
> Fraternally yours,
> Marion Gwizdala
>
>
>
>
> Fraternally yours,
> Marion
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Brittney N. Mejico" <brittneymejico at verizon.net>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2011 10:09 PM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Lisa and All: Bill of Rights
>
>
>> Well Written! Mariane
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Marion Gwizdala
>> Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2011 3:57 PM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Lisa and All: Bill of Rights
>>
>> Brittney,
>> For much too long, society has seen the blind as wards unable to
>> direct
>> their own lives - children who need the protection of others. All too
>> often,
>> many of the programs - including the guide dog training programs - feel
>> we
>> need them to survive! The truth is that they need us! If it were not for
>> our
>> blindness, those who train guide dogs would not have a job! If it were
>> not
>> for us, the training programs would not be able to raise the funds needed
>> to
>> operate the programs that provide this product for us. Frankly, if it
>> were
>> not for us, the Executive Directors of these programs would not be able
>> to
>> raise the money to pay themselves their 6-figure incomes! This puts us in
>> a
>> powerful position. with power, comes responsibility. It is our
>> responsibility to shape the programs into what we want them to be for us
>> by
>> making consumer choices.
>> It is ludicrous to receive a guide dog with all of the strings
>> attached
>> that some have. Most programs have the mistaken notion that blind people
>> are
>> more likely to abuse or neglect their dogs, so they impose waiting
>> periods
>> before we can own the dogs. In addition, they require their consumers to
>> report in with them on a regular basis to make sure the blind are doing
>> what
>> the paternalistic programs think we should. Some even impose themselves
>> upon
>> the blind by mandating follow-up visits. Some even do this unannounced!
>> How
>> rude and disrespectful! Then there is Fidelco, which believes only they
>> know
>> what is good for the blind and exercise their sole and absolute
>> discretion
>> over our lives and property.
>> Now is the time for us to stand up and demand to be treated with the
>> dignity and respect we deserve! our Guide Dog Consumers' Bill of Rights
>> will
>> be a statement of our expectations from the programs. Some will agree to
>> it
>> and some will not. Nonetheless, it will spark some conversations that
>> need
>> to take place and cause one or two of the paternalistic programs to take
>> a
>> closer look at their policies and practices.
>> We will recognize those that agree to our values and urge those that
>> do
>> not to join us. In any case, we are in the midst of some exciting change
>> in
>> the guide dog movement!
>>
>> fraternally yours,
>> Marion
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Brittney N. Mejico" <brittneymejico at verizon.net>
>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2011 6:28 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Lisa and All: Bill of Rights
>>
>>
>>> hi Mariane and every body else,
>>> Its all so complicated. As a consumer you want the best dog
>>> possible.and yes I think we should get the best dog possible.
>>> but where do we draw the line between consumer who is asking to much and
>>> we are the consumer we have a right to know. There so many things I
>>> would have loved to know about my guide dog that I had to find out about
>>> later. I am starting to think that I am expecting to much from my
>>> school. But at the same time I want to give them the benefit of the
>>> dout, sometimes they miss things, things do happen, dogs get sick etc.
>>> Sometimes I think I am complaining and other times I think "hay this is
>>> what you signed up for deal with it."
>>> Take care!
>>> .
>>>
>>> -----Original Message----
>>> From: Marion Gwizdala
>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2011 2:32 AM
>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Lisa and All: Bill of Rights
>>>
>>> Brittney,
>>> I object to the characteristic of the guide dog consumer as a
>>> "beggar".
>>> Guide dog training programs raise millions of dollars each year with the
>>> assertion that they are doing something beneficial and enhancing for the
>>> blind. Donors - many of whom are their own consumers - donate these
>>> millions
>>> with the same intent. If it were not for us, those employed by the
>>> training
>>> programs would not be earning their livings.
>>> The idea that we have no say and must settle for whatever we receive
>>> with no rights to address abuse or maltreatment is archaic. Most
>>> training
>>> programs obviously view their blind consumers as nothing more than wards
>>> who
>>> are unable to govern their own lives, let alone take care of a dog. What
>>> other reason would they have for not transferring ownership upon
>>> completion
>>> of the program? I have heard many justifications and rationalizations
>>> for
>>> this paternalistic practice but none of them are convincing. It is time
>>> for
>>> us to discard the notion that we are beholden to the training programs
>>> and
>>> demand to be treated equitably and with the dignity many of these
>>> programs
>>> mistakenly assert they provide.
>>>
>>> Fraternally yours,
>>> Marion Gwizdala
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Brittney N. Mejico" <brittneymejico at verizon.net>
>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Monday, April 18, 2011 7:08 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Lisa and All: Bill of Rights
>>>
>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>> Do we have rights as guide dog users? Most schools give us our dogs
>>>> for free or they charge a small fee that I think is extremely cheap.
>>>> Beggers can't be choosers I guess. I think we should be informed of
>>>> any alergy or behavior problem but sometimes we aren't. I think the
>>>> schools try there best we can't blame them for things that they may
>>>> have missed. My guide has alergies, I found this after I brought her
>>>> home. I contacted the school I got her from, and they helped me find a
>>>> food that didn't cause her problems. A lot of people I know there
>>>> guide dogs have alergies, I don't know why, I guess things just happen.
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Lyn Gwizdak
>>>> Sent: Monday, April 18, 2011 2:43 PM
>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Lisa and All: Bill of Rights
>>>>
>>>> Hi guys,
>>>> As a side discussion to this, it seems to me that many more dogs are
>>>> cropping up with one kind or another allergy these days. When I lived
>>>> back
>>>> east I never really encountered this problem until I moved to
>>>> California.
>>>> Now I hear that the dogs in the east coast have this problem as well -
>>>> actually dogs all over the US. Is this my imagination or are the dogs
>>>> coming out of the schools now actually having more allergies? Input
>>>> anyone?
>>>>
>>>> The Bill of Rights thing sounds good to me. I think the schools do
>>>> what
>>>> they can to try to make sure that the dogs we get are in good health.
>>>> But
>>>> these same dogs go through the hands of puppy raisers who either want
>>>> their
>>>> dog to suceed as a guide for a blind person or they want it to fail so
>>>> they
>>>> can keep it as a pet (I actually encountered a puppy raiser like this -
>>>> they
>>>> got found out and dropped from the program.). I wonder if the only
>>>> info on
>>>> a given dog is only that provided by the puppy raiser in their reports
>>>> to
>>>> the school. then there are the problems that nobody forsees like
>>>> regional
>>>> allergies or other problems that come up after the dog is exposed to
>>>> something as a ongoing thing after it goes out with a graduate.
>>>>
>>>> JUst wondering about these things. And then a dog is a living being and
>>>> there's no guarentees.
>>>>
>>>> Lyn and Landon
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Lisa Irving" <lirving1234 at cox.net>
>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2011 10:43 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Lisa and All: Bill of Rights
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Marion, I'm not quite sure what I'm doing here.
>>>>>
>>>>> Consumers shall receive verbal and written notification by the school
>>>>> when a food allergy has been identified by the puppy raiser and or the
>>>>> assigned veterinarian. With holding such vital information could have
>>>>> devastating results for the guide dog team.
>>>>>
>>>>> Lisa and Bernie
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Marion Gwizdala" <blind411 at verizon.net>
>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2011 3:26 AM
>>>>> Subject: [nagdu] Lisa and All: Bill of Rights
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Lisa,
>>>>>> Let me ask you to complete this statement as it pertains to the
>>>>>> issues you raise. Please keep the statement succinct, about one or
>>>>>> two sentences. Anyone else who wants to take a stab at it is welcome
>>>>>> to do so. As a guideline, here is the statement that would precede
>>>>>> this one.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> a. Consumers shall expect that every effort shall be made to
>>>>>> provide dogs in excellent health and appropriate temperament
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Now, complete this statement to provide that the program discloses
>>>>>> this information:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The guide dog training program shall disclose ....
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I look forward to your input on our Bill of Rights!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> fraternally yours,
>>>>>> Marion Gwizdala
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: "Lisa Irving" <lirving1234 at cox.net>
>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2011 1:16 AM
>>>>>> Subject: [nagdu] when should schools give information about dog
>>>>>> guides and re issued guides
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I believe the school has an obligation to be up front with the
>>>>>>> student. I respect that the school doesn't want to set the student
>>>>>>> or the dog up for frustration and failure. This is what I base my
>>>>>>> belief on.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> My first guide dog was a sweet and stubborn Goldie. She was a
>>>>>>> finicky eater too. The school said nothing about her propensity to
>>>>>>> not eat. However, the puppy raiser did tell me on the sly. I was
>>>>>>> told that from the "get-go" my Goldie was a fussy eater. The
>>>>>>> puppyraisers used unconventional ways to get her to eat. They
>>>>>>> sprinkled Parmashon cheese on her food. That's all right by me. They
>>>>>>> also 'fessed up to slipping her people food. I'm glad they told me.
>>>>>>> It helped me be on the alert.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> My second dog, Louie, was a ever hungry Labrador. The puppyraisers
>>>>>>> said something about all of his allergies and how he needed special
>>>>>>> food. I disregarded what they said because I figured if my dog had
>>>>>>> various food allergies the school would know and they would tell me.
>>>>>>> Louie is the dog I returned because I thought he had behavioral
>>>>>>> issues. No, he had very severe food allergies which explained why he
>>>>>>> learned to get the bungy cords off the trash cans and feast. He also
>>>>>>> feasted on animal feces too.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Bernie, my third guide dog, probably has some food allergies. Not
>>>>>>> wanting a sad repeat of the previous food related experiences with
>>>>>>> Louie, I nipped the problem in the bud. That is, Bernie ate two
>>>>>>> different dog foods that left him with gooey poo. Bernie eats a
>>>>>>> fresh and whole food quality dog food. The joke is, I can eat the
>>>>>>> dog's food if I really want a truly healthy and balanced diet.{In
>>>>>>> Bernie's food is: salmon, barley, beets, carrots and ginger and
>>>>>>> other items{.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Lisa and Bernie , ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>> From: "Tracy Carcione" <carcione at access.net>
>>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, April 15, 2011 12:05 PM
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] should guides be given a second
>>>>>>> ownerifitdoesn'tworkout with the first owner?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi Sarah.
>>>>>>>> Quite true. Though I'd be happy if the puppy raiser would let me
>>>>>>>> know if,
>>>>>>>> say, the dog was a habitual counter surfer. Though they probably
>>>>>>>> wouldn't, for fear of getting their puppy dropped from training.
>>>>>>>> I figure knowledge is power, and I'm a big girl who won't go nuts
>>>>>>>> over
>>>>>>>> little problems. But you're probably right that no one is going to
>>>>>>>> tell
>>>>>>>> me all I'd like to know.
>>>>>>>> Tracy
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hi Tracy,
>>>>>>>>> I was just comparing it to what we know about the guides we
>>>>>>>>> receive who
>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>> not reissues. They normally don't tell us about those things when
>>>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>>>> receive a nonreissue, so I wouldn't really expect them to for a
>>>>>>>>> reissue
>>>>>>>>> just
>>>>>>>>> because it was a reissue.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Sarah & Miguel
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>> From: "Tracy Carcione" <carcione at access.net>
>>>>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
>>>>>>>>> Users"
>>>>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, April 15, 2011 11:20 AM
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] should guides be given a second
>>>>>>>>> ownerifitdoesn'tworkout
>>>>>>>>> with the first owner?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Hi Sarah.
>>>>>>>>>> I don't think I buy your argument. There could be plenty of
>>>>>>>>>> undesirable
>>>>>>>>>> behaviors I might never think to mention. For example, Ben
>>>>>>>>>> empties on
>>>>>>>>>> route. The best I've managed to do is teach him to pull over
>>>>>>>>>> first. To
>>>>>>>>>> me, this is a very undesirable behavior, but it did not occur to
>>>>>>>>>> me
>>>>>>>>>> during
>>>>>>>>>> the matching process to say so, any more than I would think to
>>>>>>>>>> mention
>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>> a shoe salesman that I don't want my shoe laces coming untied
>>>>>>>>>> every 5
>>>>>>>>>> minutes.
>>>>>>>>>> Personally, I'd like to at least be made aware of any undesirable
>>>>>>>>>> behavior
>>>>>>>>>> the school is aware of, so I could either take immediate steps to
>>>>>>>>>> correct
>>>>>>>>>> it, or decide I don't want to deal with it at all. You can bet,
>>>>>>>>>> next
>>>>>>>>>> time, I'll say very loudly that I don't want a dog who empties on
>>>>>>>>>> route.
>>>>>>>>>> Then they'll probably give me a counter surfer instead.
>>>>>>>>>> <grimace.>
>>>>>>>>>> Tracy
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Peggy,
>>>>>>>>>>> Thinking about it, you probably don't even really need to know
>>>>>>>>>>> why the
>>>>>>>>>>> match
>>>>>>>>>>> didn't work, if its not something that is going to impact you.
>>>>>>>>>>> The
>>>>>>>>>>> only
>>>>>>>>>>> reason I can think of that a handler would need to know is if
>>>>>>>>>>> the dog
>>>>>>>>>>> has
>>>>>>>>>>> some kind of medical condition where it is going to need
>>>>>>>>>>> prescription
>>>>>>>>>>> dog
>>>>>>>>>>> food, or baths every couple weeks, or something else that is
>>>>>>>>>>> going to
>>>>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>> real hassel and/or cost a lot more money than usual. But then
>>>>>>>>>>> again,
>>>>>>>>>>> I'd
>>>>>>>>>>> think a handler should know this about any dog regardless if its
>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>> reissue
>>>>>>>>>>> or not.
>>>>>>>>>>> As long as the reissue matches what the new handler wants, and
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> handler
>>>>>>>>>>> is specific in what they want, there shouldn't be any problems.
>>>>>>>>>>> If the
>>>>>>>>>>> previous handler returned the dog because they didn't like
>>>>>>>>>>> something
>>>>>>>>>>> such
>>>>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>>>>> that the dog scavenged a lot or counter surfed, etc, that
>>>>>>>>>>> shouldn't
>>>>>>>>>>> matter
>>>>>>>>>>> too much either because if the new handler specifically doesn't
>>>>>>>>>>> want to
>>>>>>>>>>> deal
>>>>>>>>>>> with a major food distraction issue, they'd want to request a
>>>>>>>>>>> dog that
>>>>>>>>>>> isn't
>>>>>>>>>>> too food distracted, or ideally, who doesn't have a food
>>>>>>>>>>> distraction
>>>>>>>>>>> problem
>>>>>>>>>>> at all.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Sarah & Miguel
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Peggy" <pshald at neb.rr.com>
>>>>>>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
>>>>>>>>>>> Users"
>>>>>>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, April 15, 2011 6:29 AM
>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] should guides be given a second
>>>>>>>>>>> ownerifitdoesn'tworkout
>>>>>>>>>>> with the first owner?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> That's just it, you have no idea why the match didn't work, I'd
>>>>>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>>>>> curious
>>>>>>>>>>>> to find out, but schools don't always provide that information.
>>>>>>>>>>>> My
>>>>>>>>>>>> current Seeing Eye dog is a reissued dog and she is one of the
>>>>>>>>>>>> best
>>>>>>>>>>>> dogs
>>>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>>> have ever had. As I said I'll always wonder why her previous
>>>>>>>>>>>> match
>>>>>>>>>>>> didn't
>>>>>>>>>>>> work out but she is wonderful ... she was taken back to the
>>>>>>>>>>>> school,
>>>>>>>>>>>> re-evaluated and whatever else they have to do. She lived in
>>>>>>>>>>>> one of
>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> instructor's offices for supervision for quite a while. It was
>>>>>>>>>>>> determined
>>>>>>>>>>>> that she was still workable and was then matched with me and
>>>>>>>>>>>> it's
>>>>>>>>>>>> turned
>>>>>>>>>>>> out wonderful.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>>>> From: Sarah Clark
>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2011 10:15 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
>>>>>>>>>>>> Users
>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] should guides be given a second owner
>>>>>>>>>>>> ifitdoesn'tworkout with the first owner?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I don't think you can turn down all reissues, or classify them
>>>>>>>>>>>> all in
>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> same category. True that an occasional dog that is a reissue
>>>>>>>>>>>> may have
>>>>>>>>>>>> been
>>>>>>>>>>>> sent back for unpleasant reasons like being too hard to handle
>>>>>>>>>>>> for the
>>>>>>>>>>>> handler, or certain health conditions that wouldn't stop the
>>>>>>>>>>>> dog from
>>>>>>>>>>>> working but that the handler didn't want to deal with, etc, but
>>>>>>>>>>>> many
>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>> them
>>>>>>>>>>>> are sent back for reasons that are not negative at all. Maybe
>>>>>>>>>>>> the dog
>>>>>>>>>>>> just
>>>>>>>>>>>> walked too fast for the handler and they got home and realized
>>>>>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>> they couldn't slow the dog down (this happened to my husband
>>>>>>>>>>>> with a
>>>>>>>>>>>> guide
>>>>>>>>>>>> many years ago). Maybe it just wasn't a good match. Or maybe
>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> person
>>>>>>>>>>>> lived in a very hot climate and the dog just couldn't handle
>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> extreme
>>>>>>>>>>>> heat (also happened with someone I know).
>>>>>>>>>>>> I wouldn't think twice about taking a reissue if the school
>>>>>>>>>>>> thinks the
>>>>>>>>>>>> dog
>>>>>>>>>>>> is a good match for me and what I'm looking for. Its also true
>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>>>>>>> have the experience under their belt so are often more seasoned
>>>>>>>>>>>> than
>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> younger dogs. Though it is clear that some applicants don't
>>>>>>>>>>>> want them
>>>>>>>>>>>> because each school I have applied to has asked during the
>>>>>>>>>>>> interview
>>>>>>>>>>>> if
>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd
>>>>>>>>>>>> be open to having one.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Sarah & Miguel
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Lyn Gwizdak" <linda.gwizdak at cox.net>
>>>>>>>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
>>>>>>>>>>>> Users"
>>>>>>>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2011 3:01 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] should guides be given a second owner if
>>>>>>>>>>>> itdoesn'tworkout with the first owner?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>I know a guy who had a guide who had been reissued. This dog
>>>>>>>>>>>>>was with
>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>guy who got himself arrested and a jail term and the dog was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>taken
>>>>>>>>>>>>> from
>>>>>>>>>>>>>him and my friend got this same dog. Boy, what stories this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>dog could
>>>>>>>>>>>>>have told if he could talk! It was a very nice dog and she
>>>>>>>>>>>>>worked
>>>>>>>>>>>>> well
>>>>>>>>>>>>>for my friend and she had a good long working life.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lyn and Landon
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Lisa Irving" <lirving1234 at cox.net>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Users"
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2011 1:24 AM
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] should guides be given a second owner if
>>>>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>>>>> doesn'tworkout with the first owner?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi there, Tami and Brittney,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The more I contemplate the re issuance of a guide dog, I keep
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thinking
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> how much it means to me when someone gives me a second
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> chance. Our
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dogs
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> deserve as many chances as we can give them; first time out,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or re
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> issued.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lisa and Bernie
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Tamara Smith-Kinney" <tamara.8024 at comcast.net>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dog
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Users'"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2011 10:36 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] should guides be given a second owner if
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> doesn'twork out with the first owner?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Brittney,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm glad you asked this question. That's one of those
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> program
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> policies
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ran across while researching for owner-training, and my
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> first
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> response
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the notion was very negative.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Since then, I've heard of enough positive experience with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dogs who
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> were
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reissued after being returned to have a more favorable view
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> practice.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Most of what I've heard is from people who have done well
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> re-issued
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dogs or from people who know people... /smile/ Still, I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> get it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> now
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and understand the reasoning others have explained, and it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> does
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> seem
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> work
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for the most part. There will certainly be times when it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> doesn't,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is true of matches in general.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As for whether you're over-reacting... As a still pretty
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> new and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> only
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> somewhat experienced guide dog handler, also an
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> owner-trainer then
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> self-taught handler, I've been observing the attitudes and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ways of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thinking
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of handlers at or just above my level of experience as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> closely as I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> those of the long-timers. I can watch my peers in that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> regard to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> give
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> myself a reality check as to how I'm coming along not just
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in skill
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> maturity as a handler while I'm learning from those with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> much more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> experience.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So here's my observation, based not just on myself but on a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> generalized
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> group of other first time handlers going through or just
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> coming
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> past
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> team building phase: We over-react. To everything. /lol/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> good,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bad, the mundane... It is all new and exciting and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> frightening and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wonderful and awful, all beyond belief. We popped out to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dinner
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> just
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> evening, and at the restaurant there was just this one
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> little thing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that no
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> one would have noticed beyond our table... Outwardly, I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> remained
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> calm
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> responded correctly and it was all okay. Inwardly, what did
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I do?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> /lol/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> OMG! How can this be? What can it mean? Oh, no, this is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> terrible!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Then I noticed nothing had actually happened that was worth
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fuss and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> got over it. /smile/ More and more, it's all old hat, but
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> apparently
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I can
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> still freak out just fine over absolutely nothing.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As for working through bad habits in your re-issue dog... I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> think
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> others
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are right in their observations that during the first year
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or so,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> always be something that will make you absolutely crazy
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dog.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> your first dog, these will be far more magnified in your own
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mind
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> than
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> those you work with later on as a truly experience dhandler.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bad
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> habits
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> need to be dealt with and modified, certainly, but it's not
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> really
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> habit for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you yet to deal with those ups and downs. So you really
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> think
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> way through it and notice every little thing and try to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> figure out
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> how
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> counteract and... Well, on and on. It just takes awhile
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for all
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> become havit and natural. I've only been there for a short
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> while
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> minor blips where I freak out over nothing -- and that sure
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nice!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Good luck with your dog; sounds like you're coming through
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tream
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> building phase and are starting on the next one -- which is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> where
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> falls together and you're just you working your guide.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> /smile/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> loving
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that, and trying to hold onto that feeling as I move into
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> taking
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for granted phase.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tami Smith-Kinney
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Behalf
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Of Brittney N. Mejico
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2011 3:20 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: the National Association of Guide Dog Users NAGDU
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mailing List
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [nagdu] should guides be given a second owner if it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> doesn't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> work
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> out with the first owner?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hello all,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My dog had another handler before me. I don't think that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> guides
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> should
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> given another handlerbecause the dog picksup a lot of bad
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> habits
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are really hard to get rid of. I love my dog very muchand
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> harvard
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> has
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> changed my life, but it took me a year to stop a lot of her
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bad
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> habbits, and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we still have some work to do. What do you guys think? am I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> over
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reacting?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
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et
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
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>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
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>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
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>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Dream as if you'll live forever, live as if you'll die today.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
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>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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