[nagdu] Lisa and All: Bill of Rights
Lyn Gwizdak
linda.gwizdak at cox.net
Fri Apr 22 20:46:06 UTC 2011
I call it "creative spelling" and I sometimes resort to that when I can
think of how to spell something myself! LOL!
Lyn and Landon
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brittney N. Mejico" <brittneymejico at verizon.net>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2011 3:27 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Lisa and All: Bill of Rights
> Hi lyn
> Thanks for having a sence of humer as you all have guessed my spelling
> sucks lol
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Lyn Gwizdak
> Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2011 9:44 AM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Lisa and All: Bill of Rights
>
> Hahahaha! Yeah, wondered if you caught that female spelling, Marion! No
> offense to you, Brittney, I just had to crack up over it.
>
> While we're on the name thing, I'm Lyn with one n and my name is either
> male
> or female.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Lyn and Landon
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Brittney N. Mejico" <brittneymejico at verizon.net>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2011 8:40 AM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Lisa and All: Bill of Rights
>
>
>> hi Marion ,
>> I am so sorry. Next time I will be sure and check spelling
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Marion Gwizdala
>> Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2011 5:23 AM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Lisa and All: Bill of Rights
>>
>> Brittney,
>> I appreciate your support. I would also appreciate it if you would
>> please take note of the spelling of the names of those to whom you write,
>> as
>> I believe doing so shows respect for the individual. I realize that
>> screen
>> reading software may pronounce Mariane and Marion very similarly;
>> however,
>> Mariane is always a female name, whereas Marion can be either. In my
>> case,
>> it is a male name. FYI, the generally accepted female form of my name is
>> Marian, although some females have the same spelling as mine, e.g.,
>> Marion
>> Ross, who played Mrs. Cunningham on Happy Days.
>>
>> Fraternally yours,
>> Marion Gwizdala
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Fraternally yours,
>> Marion
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Brittney N. Mejico" <brittneymejico at verizon.net>
>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2011 10:09 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Lisa and All: Bill of Rights
>>
>>
>>> Well Written! Mariane
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Marion Gwizdala
>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2011 3:57 PM
>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Lisa and All: Bill of Rights
>>>
>>> Brittney,
>>> For much too long, society has seen the blind as wards unable to
>>> direct
>>> their own lives - children who need the protection of others. All too
>>> often,
>>> many of the programs - including the guide dog training programs - feel
>>> we
>>> need them to survive! The truth is that they need us! If it were not for
>>> our
>>> blindness, those who train guide dogs would not have a job! If it were
>>> not
>>> for us, the training programs would not be able to raise the funds
>>> needed to
>>> operate the programs that provide this product for us. Frankly, if it
>>> were
>>> not for us, the Executive Directors of these programs would not be able
>>> to
>>> raise the money to pay themselves their 6-figure incomes! This puts us
>>> in a
>>> powerful position. with power, comes responsibility. It is our
>>> responsibility to shape the programs into what we want them to be for us
>>> by
>>> making consumer choices.
>>> It is ludicrous to receive a guide dog with all of the strings
>>> attached
>>> that some have. Most programs have the mistaken notion that blind people
>>> are
>>> more likely to abuse or neglect their dogs, so they impose waiting
>>> periods
>>> before we can own the dogs. In addition, they require their consumers to
>>> report in with them on a regular basis to make sure the blind are doing
>>> what
>>> the paternalistic programs think we should. Some even impose themselves
>>> upon
>>> the blind by mandating follow-up visits. Some even do this unannounced!
>>> How
>>> rude and disrespectful! Then there is Fidelco, which believes only they
>>> know
>>> what is good for the blind and exercise their sole and absolute
>>> discretion
>>> over our lives and property.
>>> Now is the time for us to stand up and demand to be treated with the
>>> dignity and respect we deserve! our Guide Dog Consumers' Bill of Rights
>>> will
>>> be a statement of our expectations from the programs. Some will agree to
>>> it
>>> and some will not. Nonetheless, it will spark some conversations that
>>> need
>>> to take place and cause one or two of the paternalistic programs to take
>>> a
>>> closer look at their policies and practices.
>>> We will recognize those that agree to our values and urge those that
>>> do
>>> not to join us. In any case, we are in the midst of some exciting change
>>> in
>>> the guide dog movement!
>>>
>>> fraternally yours,
>>> Marion
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Brittney N. Mejico" <brittneymejico at verizon.net>
>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2011 6:28 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Lisa and All: Bill of Rights
>>>
>>>
>>>> hi Mariane and every body else,
>>>> Its all so complicated. As a consumer you want the best dog
>>>> possible.and yes I think we should get the best dog possible.
>>>> but where do we draw the line between consumer who is asking to much
>>>> and we are the consumer we have a right to know. There so many things I
>>>> would have loved to know about my guide dog that I had to find out
>>>> about later. I am starting to think that I am expecting to much from my
>>>> school. But at the same time I want to give them the benefit of the
>>>> dout, sometimes they miss things, things do happen, dogs get sick etc.
>>>> Sometimes I think I am complaining and other times I think "hay this is
>>>> what you signed up for deal with it."
>>>> Take care!
>>>> .
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message----
>>>> From: Marion Gwizdala
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2011 2:32 AM
>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Lisa and All: Bill of Rights
>>>>
>>>> Brittney,
>>>> I object to the characteristic of the guide dog consumer as a
>>>> "beggar".
>>>> Guide dog training programs raise millions of dollars each year with
>>>> the
>>>> assertion that they are doing something beneficial and enhancing for
>>>> the
>>>> blind. Donors - many of whom are their own consumers - donate these
>>>> millions
>>>> with the same intent. If it were not for us, those employed by the
>>>> training
>>>> programs would not be earning their livings.
>>>> The idea that we have no say and must settle for whatever we receive
>>>> with no rights to address abuse or maltreatment is archaic. Most
>>>> training
>>>> programs obviously view their blind consumers as nothing more than
>>>> wards who
>>>> are unable to govern their own lives, let alone take care of a dog.
>>>> What
>>>> other reason would they have for not transferring ownership upon
>>>> completion
>>>> of the program? I have heard many justifications and rationalizations
>>>> for
>>>> this paternalistic practice but none of them are convincing. It is time
>>>> for
>>>> us to discard the notion that we are beholden to the training programs
>>>> and
>>>> demand to be treated equitably and with the dignity many of these
>>>> programs
>>>> mistakenly assert they provide.
>>>>
>>>> Fraternally yours,
>>>> Marion Gwizdala
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Brittney N. Mejico" <brittneymejico at verizon.net>
>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Monday, April 18, 2011 7:08 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Lisa and All: Bill of Rights
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>> Do we have rights as guide dog users? Most schools give us our dogs
>>>>> for free or they charge a small fee that I think is extremely cheap.
>>>>> Beggers can't be choosers I guess. I think we should be informed of
>>>>> any alergy or behavior problem but sometimes we aren't. I think the
>>>>> schools try there best we can't blame them for things that they may
>>>>> have missed. My guide has alergies, I found this after I brought her
>>>>> home. I contacted the school I got her from, and they helped me find
>>>>> a food that didn't cause her problems. A lot of people I know there
>>>>> guide dogs have alergies, I don't know why, I guess things just
>>>>> happen.
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Lyn Gwizdak
>>>>> Sent: Monday, April 18, 2011 2:43 PM
>>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Lisa and All: Bill of Rights
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi guys,
>>>>> As a side discussion to this, it seems to me that many more dogs are
>>>>> cropping up with one kind or another allergy these days. When I lived
>>>>> back
>>>>> east I never really encountered this problem until I moved to
>>>>> California.
>>>>> Now I hear that the dogs in the east coast have this problem as well -
>>>>> actually dogs all over the US. Is this my imagination or are the dogs
>>>>> coming out of the schools now actually having more allergies? Input
>>>>> anyone?
>>>>>
>>>>> The Bill of Rights thing sounds good to me. I think the schools do
>>>>> what
>>>>> they can to try to make sure that the dogs we get are in good health.
>>>>> But
>>>>> these same dogs go through the hands of puppy raisers who either want
>>>>> their
>>>>> dog to suceed as a guide for a blind person or they want it to fail so
>>>>> they
>>>>> can keep it as a pet (I actually encountered a puppy raiser like
>>>>> this - they
>>>>> got found out and dropped from the program.). I wonder if the only
>>>>> info on
>>>>> a given dog is only that provided by the puppy raiser in their reports
>>>>> to
>>>>> the school. then there are the problems that nobody forsees like
>>>>> regional
>>>>> allergies or other problems that come up after the dog is exposed to
>>>>> something as a ongoing thing after it goes out with a graduate.
>>>>>
>>>>> JUst wondering about these things. And then a dog is a living being
>>>>> and
>>>>> there's no guarentees.
>>>>>
>>>>> Lyn and Landon
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Lisa Irving" <lirving1234 at cox.net>
>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2011 10:43 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Lisa and All: Bill of Rights
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Marion, I'm not quite sure what I'm doing here.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Consumers shall receive verbal and written notification by the school
>>>>>> when a food allergy has been identified by the puppy raiser and or
>>>>>> the assigned veterinarian. With holding such vital information could
>>>>>> have devastating results for the guide dog team.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Lisa and Bernie
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: "Marion Gwizdala" <blind411 at verizon.net>
>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2011 3:26 AM
>>>>>> Subject: [nagdu] Lisa and All: Bill of Rights
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Lisa,
>>>>>>> Let me ask you to complete this statement as it pertains to the
>>>>>>> issues you raise. Please keep the statement succinct, about one or
>>>>>>> two sentences. Anyone else who wants to take a stab at it is welcome
>>>>>>> to do so. As a guideline, here is the statement that would precede
>>>>>>> this one.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> a. Consumers shall expect that every effort shall be made to
>>>>>>> provide dogs in excellent health and appropriate temperament
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Now, complete this statement to provide that the program discloses
>>>>>>> this information:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The guide dog training program shall disclose ....
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I look forward to your input on our Bill of Rights!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> fraternally yours,
>>>>>>> Marion Gwizdala
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>> From: "Lisa Irving" <lirving1234 at cox.net>
>>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
>>>>>>> Users" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2011 1:16 AM
>>>>>>> Subject: [nagdu] when should schools give information about dog
>>>>>>> guides and re issued guides
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I believe the school has an obligation to be up front with the
>>>>>>>> student. I respect that the school doesn't want to set the student
>>>>>>>> or the dog up for frustration and failure. This is what I base my
>>>>>>>> belief on.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> My first guide dog was a sweet and stubborn Goldie. She was a
>>>>>>>> finicky eater too. The school said nothing about her propensity to
>>>>>>>> not eat. However, the puppy raiser did tell me on the sly. I was
>>>>>>>> told that from the "get-go" my Goldie was a fussy eater. The
>>>>>>>> puppyraisers used unconventional ways to get her to eat. They
>>>>>>>> sprinkled Parmashon cheese on her food. That's all right by me.
>>>>>>>> They also 'fessed up to slipping her people food. I'm glad they
>>>>>>>> told me. It helped me be on the alert.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> My second dog, Louie, was a ever hungry Labrador. The puppyraisers
>>>>>>>> said something about all of his allergies and how he needed special
>>>>>>>> food. I disregarded what they said because I figured if my dog had
>>>>>>>> various food allergies the school would know and they would tell
>>>>>>>> me. Louie is the dog I returned because I thought he had behavioral
>>>>>>>> issues. No, he had very severe food allergies which explained why
>>>>>>>> he learned to get the bungy cords off the trash cans and feast. He
>>>>>>>> also feasted on animal feces too.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Bernie, my third guide dog, probably has some food allergies. Not
>>>>>>>> wanting a sad repeat of the previous food related experiences with
>>>>>>>> Louie, I nipped the problem in the bud. That is, Bernie ate two
>>>>>>>> different dog foods that left him with gooey poo. Bernie eats a
>>>>>>>> fresh and whole food quality dog food. The joke is, I can eat the
>>>>>>>> dog's food if I really want a truly healthy and balanced diet.{In
>>>>>>>> Bernie's food is: salmon, barley, beets, carrots and ginger and
>>>>>>>> other items{.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Lisa and Bernie , ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>> From: "Tracy Carcione" <carcione at access.net>
>>>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
>>>>>>>> Users" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, April 15, 2011 12:05 PM
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] should guides be given a second
>>>>>>>> ownerifitdoesn'tworkout with the first owner?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hi Sarah.
>>>>>>>>> Quite true. Though I'd be happy if the puppy raiser would let me
>>>>>>>>> know if,
>>>>>>>>> say, the dog was a habitual counter surfer. Though they probably
>>>>>>>>> wouldn't, for fear of getting their puppy dropped from training.
>>>>>>>>> I figure knowledge is power, and I'm a big girl who won't go nuts
>>>>>>>>> over
>>>>>>>>> little problems. But you're probably right that no one is going
>>>>>>>>> to tell
>>>>>>>>> me all I'd like to know.
>>>>>>>>> Tracy
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Hi Tracy,
>>>>>>>>>> I was just comparing it to what we know about the guides we
>>>>>>>>>> receive who
>>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>>> not reissues. They normally don't tell us about those things
>>>>>>>>>> when we
>>>>>>>>>> receive a nonreissue, so I wouldn't really expect them to for a
>>>>>>>>>> reissue
>>>>>>>>>> just
>>>>>>>>>> because it was a reissue.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Sarah & Miguel
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>> From: "Tracy Carcione" <carcione at access.net>
>>>>>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
>>>>>>>>>> Users"
>>>>>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, April 15, 2011 11:20 AM
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] should guides be given a second
>>>>>>>>>> ownerifitdoesn'tworkout
>>>>>>>>>> with the first owner?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Sarah.
>>>>>>>>>>> I don't think I buy your argument. There could be plenty of
>>>>>>>>>>> undesirable
>>>>>>>>>>> behaviors I might never think to mention. For example, Ben
>>>>>>>>>>> empties on
>>>>>>>>>>> route. The best I've managed to do is teach him to pull over
>>>>>>>>>>> first. To
>>>>>>>>>>> me, this is a very undesirable behavior, but it did not occur to
>>>>>>>>>>> me
>>>>>>>>>>> during
>>>>>>>>>>> the matching process to say so, any more than I would think to
>>>>>>>>>>> mention
>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>> a shoe salesman that I don't want my shoe laces coming untied
>>>>>>>>>>> every 5
>>>>>>>>>>> minutes.
>>>>>>>>>>> Personally, I'd like to at least be made aware of any
>>>>>>>>>>> undesirable
>>>>>>>>>>> behavior
>>>>>>>>>>> the school is aware of, so I could either take immediate steps
>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>> correct
>>>>>>>>>>> it, or decide I don't want to deal with it at all. You can bet,
>>>>>>>>>>> next
>>>>>>>>>>> time, I'll say very loudly that I don't want a dog who empties
>>>>>>>>>>> on route.
>>>>>>>>>>> Then they'll probably give me a counter surfer instead.
>>>>>>>>>>> <grimace.>
>>>>>>>>>>> Tracy
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Peggy,
>>>>>>>>>>>> Thinking about it, you probably don't even really need to know
>>>>>>>>>>>> why the
>>>>>>>>>>>> match
>>>>>>>>>>>> didn't work, if its not something that is going to impact you.
>>>>>>>>>>>> The
>>>>>>>>>>>> only
>>>>>>>>>>>> reason I can think of that a handler would need to know is if
>>>>>>>>>>>> the dog
>>>>>>>>>>>> has
>>>>>>>>>>>> some kind of medical condition where it is going to need
>>>>>>>>>>>> prescription
>>>>>>>>>>>> dog
>>>>>>>>>>>> food, or baths every couple weeks, or something else that is
>>>>>>>>>>>> going to
>>>>>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>> real hassel and/or cost a lot more money than usual. But then
>>>>>>>>>>>> again,
>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd
>>>>>>>>>>>> think a handler should know this about any dog regardless if
>>>>>>>>>>>> its a
>>>>>>>>>>>> reissue
>>>>>>>>>>>> or not.
>>>>>>>>>>>> As long as the reissue matches what the new handler wants, and
>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> handler
>>>>>>>>>>>> is specific in what they want, there shouldn't be any problems.
>>>>>>>>>>>> If the
>>>>>>>>>>>> previous handler returned the dog because they didn't like
>>>>>>>>>>>> something
>>>>>>>>>>>> such
>>>>>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>>>>>> that the dog scavenged a lot or counter surfed, etc, that
>>>>>>>>>>>> shouldn't
>>>>>>>>>>>> matter
>>>>>>>>>>>> too much either because if the new handler specifically doesn't
>>>>>>>>>>>> want to
>>>>>>>>>>>> deal
>>>>>>>>>>>> with a major food distraction issue, they'd want to request a
>>>>>>>>>>>> dog that
>>>>>>>>>>>> isn't
>>>>>>>>>>>> too food distracted, or ideally, who doesn't have a food
>>>>>>>>>>>> distraction
>>>>>>>>>>>> problem
>>>>>>>>>>>> at all.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Sarah & Miguel
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Peggy" <pshald at neb.rr.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
>>>>>>>>>>>> Users"
>>>>>>>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, April 15, 2011 6:29 AM
>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] should guides be given a second
>>>>>>>>>>>> ownerifitdoesn'tworkout
>>>>>>>>>>>> with the first owner?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> That's just it, you have no idea why the match didn't work,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd be
>>>>>>>>>>>>> curious
>>>>>>>>>>>>> to find out, but schools don't always provide that
>>>>>>>>>>>>> information. My
>>>>>>>>>>>>> current Seeing Eye dog is a reissued dog and she is one of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> best
>>>>>>>>>>>>> dogs
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>>>> have ever had. As I said I'll always wonder why her previous
>>>>>>>>>>>>> match
>>>>>>>>>>>>> didn't
>>>>>>>>>>>>> work out but she is wonderful ... she was taken back to the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> school,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> re-evaluated and whatever else they have to do. She lived in
>>>>>>>>>>>>> one of
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> instructor's offices for supervision for quite a while. It
>>>>>>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>>>>>>> determined
>>>>>>>>>>>>> that she was still workable and was then matched with me and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> it's
>>>>>>>>>>>>> turned
>>>>>>>>>>>>> out wonderful.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: Sarah Clark
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2011 10:15 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Users
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] should guides be given a second owner
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ifitdoesn'tworkout with the first owner?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I don't think you can turn down all reissues, or classify them
>>>>>>>>>>>>> all in
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> same category. True that an occasional dog that is a reissue
>>>>>>>>>>>>> may have
>>>>>>>>>>>>> been
>>>>>>>>>>>>> sent back for unpleasant reasons like being too hard to handle
>>>>>>>>>>>>> for the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> handler, or certain health conditions that wouldn't stop the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> dog from
>>>>>>>>>>>>> working but that the handler didn't want to deal with, etc,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> but many
>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>> them
>>>>>>>>>>>>> are sent back for reasons that are not negative at all. Maybe
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the dog
>>>>>>>>>>>>> just
>>>>>>>>>>>>> walked too fast for the handler and they got home and realized
>>>>>>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>>> they couldn't slow the dog down (this happened to my husband
>>>>>>>>>>>>> with a
>>>>>>>>>>>>> guide
>>>>>>>>>>>>> many years ago). Maybe it just wasn't a good match. Or maybe
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> person
>>>>>>>>>>>>> lived in a very hot climate and the dog just couldn't handle
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> extreme
>>>>>>>>>>>>> heat (also happened with someone I know).
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I wouldn't think twice about taking a reissue if the school
>>>>>>>>>>>>> thinks the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> dog
>>>>>>>>>>>>> is a good match for me and what I'm looking for. Its also
>>>>>>>>>>>>> true that
>>>>>>>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>>>>>>>> have the experience under their belt so are often more
>>>>>>>>>>>>> seasoned than
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> younger dogs. Though it is clear that some applicants don't
>>>>>>>>>>>>> want them
>>>>>>>>>>>>> because each school I have applied to has asked during the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> interview
>>>>>>>>>>>>> if
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd
>>>>>>>>>>>>> be open to having one.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sarah & Miguel
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Lyn Gwizdak" <linda.gwizdak at cox.net>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Users"
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2011 3:01 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] should guides be given a second owner if
>>>>>>>>>>>>> itdoesn'tworkout with the first owner?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I know a guy who had a guide who had been reissued. This dog
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>was with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>guy who got himself arrested and a jail term and the dog was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>taken
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>him and my friend got this same dog. Boy, what stories this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>dog could
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>have told if he could talk! It was a very nice dog and she
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>worked
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> well
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>for my friend and she had a good long working life.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lyn and Landon
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Lisa Irving" <lirving1234 at cox.net>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Users"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2011 1:24 AM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] should guides be given a second owner if
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> doesn'tworkout with the first owner?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi there, Tami and Brittney,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The more I contemplate the re issuance of a guide dog, I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> keep
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thinking
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> how much it means to me when someone gives me a second
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> chance. Our
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dogs
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> deserve as many chances as we can give them; first time out,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or re
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> issued.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lisa and Bernie
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Tamara Smith-Kinney" <tamara.8024 at comcast.net>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dog
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Users'"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2011 10:36 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] should guides be given a second owner
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> if it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> doesn'twork out with the first owner?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Brittney,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm glad you asked this question. That's one of those
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> program
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> policies
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ran across while researching for owner-training, and my
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> first
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> response
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the notion was very negative.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Since then, I've heard of enough positive experience with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dogs who
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> were
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reissued after being returned to have a more favorable view
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> practice.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Most of what I've heard is from people who have done well
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> re-issued
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dogs or from people who know people... /smile/ Still, I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> get it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> now
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and understand the reasoning others have explained, and it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> does
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> seem
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> work
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for the most part. There will certainly be times when it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> doesn't,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is true of matches in general.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As for whether you're over-reacting... As a still pretty
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> new and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> only
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> somewhat experienced guide dog handler, also an
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> owner-trainer then
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> self-taught handler, I've been observing the attitudes and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ways of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thinking
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of handlers at or just above my level of experience as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> closely as I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> those of the long-timers. I can watch my peers in that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> regard to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> give
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> myself a reality check as to how I'm coming along not just
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in skill
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> maturity as a handler while I'm learning from those with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> much more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> experience.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So here's my observation, based not just on myself but on a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> generalized
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> group of other first time handlers going through or just
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> coming
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> past
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> team building phase: We over-react. To everything. /lol/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> good,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bad, the mundane... It is all new and exciting and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> frightening and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wonderful and awful, all beyond belief. We popped out to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dinner
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> just
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> evening, and at the restaurant there was just this one
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> little thing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that no
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> one would have noticed beyond our table... Outwardly, I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> remained
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> calm
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> responded correctly and it was all okay. Inwardly, what
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> did I do?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> /lol/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> OMG! How can this be? What can it mean? Oh, no, this is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> terrible!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Then I noticed nothing had actually happened that was worth
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fuss and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> got over it. /smile/ More and more, it's all old hat, but
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> apparently
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I can
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> still freak out just fine over absolutely nothing.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As for working through bad habits in your re-issue dog...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> others
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are right in their observations that during the first year
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or so,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> always be something that will make you absolutely crazy
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dog.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> your first dog, these will be far more magnified in your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> own mind
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> than
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> those you work with later on as a truly experience
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dhandler. The
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bad
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> habits
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> need to be dealt with and modified, certainly, but it's not
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> really
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> habit for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you yet to deal with those ups and downs. So you really
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> think
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> way through it and notice every little thing and try to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> figure out
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> how
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> counteract and... Well, on and on. It just takes awhile
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for all
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> become havit and natural. I've only been there for a short
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> while
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> minor blips where I freak out over nothing -- and that sure
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nice!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Good luck with your dog; sounds like you're coming through
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tream
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> building phase and are starting on the next one -- which is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> where
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> falls together and you're just you working your guide.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> /smile/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> loving
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that, and trying to hold onto that feeling as I move into
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> taking
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for granted phase.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tami Smith-Kinney
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Behalf
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Of Brittney N. Mejico
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2011 3:20 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: the National Association of Guide Dog Users NAGDU
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mailing List
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [nagdu] should guides be given a second owner if
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> doesn't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> work
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> out with the first owner?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hello all,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My dog had another handler before me. I don't think that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> guides
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> should
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> given another handlerbecause the dog picksup a lot of bad
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> habits
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are really hard to get rid of. I love my dog very
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> muchand
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> harvard
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> has
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> changed my life, but it took me a year to stop a lot of her
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bad
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> habbits, and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we still have some work to do. What do you guys think? am
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I over
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reacting?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dream as if you'll live forever, live as if you'll die today.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
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