[nagdu] Lisa and All: Bill of Rights
Tamara Smith-Kinney
tamara.8024 at comcast.net
Fri Apr 22 01:06:40 UTC 2011
Yeah. Sorry, I forgot he was the cross. I think I see him as identical to
Landon for some reason. /smile/ They must be quite the pair going around
town with their humans.
I was teasing about the who's the boss. Or parent or whatever. We have not
one but two strong-willed and demanding divas in this household, so for us
two strong-willed and demanding humans to maintain our places in the pack
order -- or whatever order may or may not exist at any given time -- is
sometimes a bit challenging. Also, just when we think we have it figured
out, the dogs get together to change all the rules and just can't be
bothered to give us a copy of the new ones. /lol/ It's fun, actually. And
yes, I am the boss of Mitzi. Just don't tell her I've caught on or I'll
have to prove it all over again. /evil grin/
Tami Smith-Kinney
-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Lisa Irving
Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2011 3:03 PM
To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Lisa and All: Bill of Rights
Tami,
Bernie is part lab and Goldie. He may be stubborn, but I'm the "parent".
Lisa and Bernie
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tamara Smith-Kinney" <tamara.8024 at comcast.net>
To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2011 2:17 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Lisa and All: Bill of Rights
> Lisa,
>
> Who are you and how did you manage to get a black poodle down to San Diego
> disguised as a golden retriever named Bernie? /lol/ Same deal with her.
> Love the strong-willed stubborness when she's guiding me. Have learned to
> accept the accommodations I end up making with her to get around it
> everywhere else. Who's the boss around here? Mitzi's the boss! Who else
> do you think it would be? Teehee.
>
> Tami Smith-Kinney
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Lisa Irving
> Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2011 9:35 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Lisa and All: Bill of Rights
>
> Hi Traci and Rebecca,
>
> This is the "Yin and the Yang" for my darling, Bernie. I love that he is
> overall pretty laid back. The other side; not the reverse side, is that
> Bernie is stubborn. If I were to go back into Mommy mode, I'd be asking
> myself, how can I make this stubborn streak; strong willed, a plus for
> both
> of us? That's how I, if you will, parent Bernie. I want him to be strong
> willed when we're walking. I trust him; most of the time. In the morning,
> Bernie generally wants to get up when he feels like getting up. I know
> this
> and I accept it. I make this work by talking to him, scratching him all
> over
>
> and gently tugging on a paw. No problem, he get's up. We go through a
> similar dance in the evening when I take him out for his last "park time".
>
> Lisa and Bernie
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tracy Carcione" <carcione at access.net>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2011 6:21 AM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Lisa and All: Bill of Rights
>
>
>> Hi Rebecca.
>> Very well put.
>> I'm doing just that with Ben. I have a whole list of things I like, and
>> things that could be better. Trouble is, some of the dislikes are the
>> flip side of what I like. For example, I wish he'd take my corrections
>> more seriously, but I love that he will stand up to me when I'm wrong.
>> Yin and yang. The yin/yang symbol has a light and a dark side, but each
>> side has a bit of the other in it. So it is.
>> Tracy
>>
>>> Britney,
>>> I'd suggest you treat this as a lessons learned event.
>>> Write down what you like about your dog and what you don't like. Then
>>> hang
>>> onto it and think about it a bit later.
>>> Your experiences and impressions are valid and you should not discount
>>> them. You got a dog to do a job for you. The school needs to know what
>>> worked and what didn't. Every business does.
>>> If we were talking about a heating system and yours worked 75 percent of
>>> the time and the other 25 percent it heated your house way too hot,
>>> you'd
>>> let somebody know. You may choose to live with it because hey, it saves
>>> you a lot of money, and you aren't home when it heats too hot, but you'd
>>> certainly say "Whenyou install another system, let's fix this problem".
>>> Look at your dog and your school in the same way.
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>> Behalf
>>> Of Brittney N. Mejico
>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2011 6:44 PM
>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Lisa and All: Bill of Rights
>>>
>>> hi Mariane and every body else,
>>> Its all so complicated. As a consumer you want the best dog
>>> possible.and
>>> yes I think we should get the best dog possible.
>>> but where do we draw the line between consumer who is asking to much and
>>> we
>>> are the consumer we have a right to know. There so many things I would
>>> have
>>> loved to know about my guide dog that I had to find out about later. I
>>> am
>>> starting to think that I am expecting to much from my school. But at
>>> the
>>> same time I want to give them the benefit of the dout, sometimes they
>>> miss
>>> things, things do happen, dogs get sick etc. Sometimes I think I am
>>> complaining and other times I think "hay this is what you signed up for
>>> deal
>>> with it."
>>> Take care!
>>> .
>>>
>>> -----Original Message----
>>> From: Marion Gwizdala
>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2011 2:32 AM
>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Lisa and All: Bill of Rights
>>>
>>> Brittney,
>>> I object to the characteristic of the guide dog consumer as a
>>> "beggar".
>>> Guide dog training programs raise millions of dollars each year with the
>>> assertion that they are doing something beneficial and enhancing for the
>>> blind. Donors - many of whom are their own consumers - donate these
>>> millions
>>> with the same intent. If it were not for us, those employed by the
>>> training
>>> programs would not be earning their livings.
>>> The idea that we have no say and must settle for whatever we receive
>>> with no rights to address abuse or maltreatment is archaic. Most
>>> training
>>> programs obviously view their blind consumers as nothing more than wards
>>> who
>>> are unable to govern their own lives, let alone take care of a dog. What
>>> other reason would they have for not transferring ownership upon
>>> completion
>>> of the program? I have heard many justifications and rationalizations
>>> for
>>> this paternalistic practice but none of them are convincing. It is time
>>> for
>>> us to discard the notion that we are beholden to the training programs
>>> and
>>> demand to be treated equitably and with the dignity many of these
>>> programs
>>> mistakenly assert they provide.
>>>
>>> Fraternally yours,
>>> Marion Gwizdala
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Brittney N. Mejico" <brittneymejico at verizon.net>
>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Monday, April 18, 2011 7:08 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Lisa and All: Bill of Rights
>>>
>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>> Do we have rights as guide dog users? Most schools give us our dogs
>>>> for
>>>> free or they charge a small fee that I think is extremely cheap.
>>>> Beggers
>>>> can't be choosers I guess. I think we should be informed of any
>>>> alergy
>>>> or behavior problem but sometimes we aren't. I think the schools try
>>>> there best we can't blame them for things that they may have missed.
>>>> My
>>>> guide has alergies, I found this after I brought her home. I contacted
>>>> the
>>>> school I got her from, and they helped me find a food that didn't
>>>> cause
>>>> her problems. A lot of people I know there guide dogs have alergies, I
>>>> don't know why, I guess things just happen.
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Lyn Gwizdak
>>>> Sent: Monday, April 18, 2011 2:43 PM
>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Lisa and All: Bill of Rights
>>>>
>>>> Hi guys,
>>>> As a side discussion to this, it seems to me that many more dogs are
>>>> cropping up with one kind or another allergy these days. When I lived
>>>> back
>>>> east I never really encountered this problem until I moved to
>>>> California.
>>>> Now I hear that the dogs in the east coast have this problem as well -
>>>> actually dogs all over the US. Is this my imagination or are the dogs
>>>> coming out of the schools now actually having more allergies? Input
>>>> anyone?
>>>>
>>>> The Bill of Rights thing sounds good to me. I think the schools do
>>>> what
>>>> they can to try to make sure that the dogs we get are in good health.
>>>> But
>>>> these same dogs go through the hands of puppy raisers who either want
>>>> their
>>>> dog to suceed as a guide for a blind person or they want it to fail so
>>>> they
>>>> can keep it as a pet (I actually encountered a puppy raiser like this -
>>>> they
>>>> got found out and dropped from the program.). I wonder if the only
>>>> info
>>>> on
>>>> a given dog is only that provided by the puppy raiser in their reports
>>>> to
>>>> the school. then there are the problems that nobody forsees like
>>>> regional
>>>> allergies or other problems that come up after the dog is exposed to
>>>> something as a ongoing thing after it goes out with a graduate.
>>>>
>>>> JUst wondering about these things. And then a dog is a living being and
>>>> there's no guarentees.
>>>>
>>>> Lyn and Landon
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Lisa Irving" <lirving1234 at cox.net>
>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2011 10:43 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Lisa and All: Bill of Rights
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Marion, I'm not quite sure what I'm doing here.
>>>>>
>>>>> Consumers shall receive verbal and written notification by the school
>>>>> when a food allergy has been identified by the puppy raiser and or the
>>>>> assigned veterinarian. With holding such vital information could have
>>>>> devastating results for the guide dog team.
>>>>>
>>>>> Lisa and Bernie
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Marion Gwizdala" <blind411 at verizon.net>
>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2011 3:26 AM
>>>>> Subject: [nagdu] Lisa and All: Bill of Rights
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Lisa,
>>>>>> Let me ask you to complete this statement as it pertains to the
>>>>>> issues you raise. Please keep the statement succinct, about one or
>>>>>> two
>>>>>> sentences. Anyone else who wants to take a stab at it is welcome to
>>>>>> do
>>>>>> so. As a guideline, here is the statement that would precede this
>>>>>> one.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> a. Consumers shall expect that every effort shall be made to
>>>>>> provide dogs in excellent health and appropriate temperament
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Now, complete this statement to provide that the program discloses
>>>>>> this
>>>>>> information:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The guide dog training program shall disclose ....
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I look forward to your input on our Bill of Rights!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> fraternally yours,
>>>>>> Marion Gwizdala
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: "Lisa Irving" <lirving1234 at cox.net>
>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2011 1:16 AM
>>>>>> Subject: [nagdu] when should schools give information about dog
>>>>>> guides
>>>>>> and re issued guides
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I believe the school has an obligation to be up front with the
>>>>>>> student. I respect that the school doesn't want to set the student
>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>> the dog up for frustration and failure. This is what I base my
>>>>>>> belief
>>>>>>> on.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> My first guide dog was a sweet and stubborn Goldie. She was a
>>>>>>> finicky
>>>>>>> eater too. The school said nothing about her propensity to not eat.
>>>>>>> However, the puppy raiser did tell me on the sly. I was told that
>>>>>>> from
>>>>>>> the "get-go" my Goldie was a fussy eater. The puppyraisers used
>>>>>>> unconventional ways to get her to eat. They sprinkled Parmashon
>>>>>>> cheese
>>>>>>> on her food. That's all right by me. They also 'fessed up to
>>>>>>> slipping
>>>>>>> her people food. I'm glad they told me. It helped me be on the
>>>>>>> alert.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> My second dog, Louie, was a ever hungry Labrador. The puppyraisers
>>>>>>> said
>>>>>>> something about all of his allergies and how he needed special food.
>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>> disregarded what they said because I figured if my dog had various
>>>>>>> food
>>>>>>> allergies the school would know and they would tell me. Louie is
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> dog I returned because I thought he had behavioral issues. No, he
>>>>>>> had
>>>>>>> very severe food allergies which explained why he learned to get the
>>>>>>> bungy cords off the trash cans and feast. He also feasted on animal
>>>>>>> feces too.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Bernie, my third guide dog, probably has some food allergies. Not
>>>>>>> wanting a sad repeat of the previous food related experiences with
>>>>>>> Louie, I nipped the problem in the bud. That is, Bernie ate two
>>>>>>> different dog foods that left him with gooey poo. Bernie eats a
>>>>>>> fresh and whole food quality dog food. The joke is, I can eat the
>>>>>>> dog's
>>>>>>> food if I really want a truly healthy and balanced diet.{In Bernie's
>>>>>>> food is: salmon, barley, beets, carrots and ginger and other items{.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Lisa and Bernie , ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>> From: "Tracy Carcione" <carcione at access.net>
>>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, April 15, 2011 12:05 PM
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] should guides be given a second
>>>>>>> ownerifitdoesn'tworkout with the first owner?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi Sarah.
>>>>>>>> Quite true. Though I'd be happy if the puppy raiser would let me
>>>>>>>> know
>>>>>>>> if,
>>>>>>>> say, the dog was a habitual counter surfer. Though they probably
>>>>>>>> wouldn't, for fear of getting their puppy dropped from training.
>>>>>>>> I figure knowledge is power, and I'm a big girl who won't go nuts
>>>>>>>> over
>>>>>>>> little problems. But you're probably right that no one is going to
>>>>>>>> tell
>>>>>>>> me all I'd like to know.
>>>>>>>> Tracy
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hi Tracy,
>>>>>>>>> I was just comparing it to what we know about the guides we
>>>>>>>>> receive
>>>>>>>>> who
>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>> not reissues. They normally don't tell us about those things when
>>>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>>>> receive a nonreissue, so I wouldn't really expect them to for a
>>>>>>>>> reissue
>>>>>>>>> just
>>>>>>>>> because it was a reissue.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Sarah & Miguel
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>> From: "Tracy Carcione" <carcione at access.net>
>>>>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
>>>>>>>>> Users"
>>>>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, April 15, 2011 11:20 AM
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] should guides be given a second
>>>>>>>>> ownerifitdoesn'tworkout
>>>>>>>>> with the first owner?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Hi Sarah.
>>>>>>>>>> I don't think I buy your argument. There could be plenty of
>>>>>>>>>> undesirable
>>>>>>>>>> behaviors I might never think to mention. For example, Ben
>>>>>>>>>> empties
>>>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>>> route. The best I've managed to do is teach him to pull over
>>>>>>>>>> first.
>>>>>>>>>> To
>>>>>>>>>> me, this is a very undesirable behavior, but it did not occur to
>>>>>>>>>> me
>>>>>>>>>> during
>>>>>>>>>> the matching process to say so, any more than I would think to
>>>>>>>>>> mention
>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>> a shoe salesman that I don't want my shoe laces coming untied
>>>>>>>>>> every
>>>>>>>>>> 5
>>>>>>>>>> minutes.
>>>>>>>>>> Personally, I'd like to at least be made aware of any undesirable
>>>>>>>>>> behavior
>>>>>>>>>> the school is aware of, so I could either take immediate steps to
>>>>>>>>>> correct
>>>>>>>>>> it, or decide I don't want to deal with it at all. You can bet,
>>>>>>>>>> next
>>>>>>>>>> time, I'll say very loudly that I don't want a dog who empties on
>>>>>>>>>> route.
>>>>>>>>>> Then they'll probably give me a counter surfer instead.
>>>>>>>>>> <grimace.>
>>>>>>>>>> Tracy
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Peggy,
>>>>>>>>>>> Thinking about it, you probably don't even really need to know
>>>>>>>>>>> why
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> match
>>>>>>>>>>> didn't work, if its not something that is going to impact you.
>>>>>>>>>>> The
>>>>>>>>>>> only
>>>>>>>>>>> reason I can think of that a handler would need to know is if
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> dog
>>>>>>>>>>> has
>>>>>>>>>>> some kind of medical condition where it is going to need
>>>>>>>>>>> prescription
>>>>>>>>>>> dog
>>>>>>>>>>> food, or baths every couple weeks, or something else that is
>>>>>>>>>>> going
>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>> real hassel and/or cost a lot more money than usual. But then
>>>>>>>>>>> again,
>>>>>>>>>>> I'd
>>>>>>>>>>> think a handler should know this about any dog regardless if its
>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>> reissue
>>>>>>>>>>> or not.
>>>>>>>>>>> As long as the reissue matches what the new handler wants, and
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> handler
>>>>>>>>>>> is specific in what they want, there shouldn't be any problems.
>>>>>>>>>>> If
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> previous handler returned the dog because they didn't like
>>>>>>>>>>> something
>>>>>>>>>>> such
>>>>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>>>>> that the dog scavenged a lot or counter surfed, etc, that
>>>>>>>>>>> shouldn't
>>>>>>>>>>> matter
>>>>>>>>>>> too much either because if the new handler specifically doesn't
>>>>>>>>>>> want to
>>>>>>>>>>> deal
>>>>>>>>>>> with a major food distraction issue, they'd want to request a
>>>>>>>>>>> dog
>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>> isn't
>>>>>>>>>>> too food distracted, or ideally, who doesn't have a food
>>>>>>>>>>> distraction
>>>>>>>>>>> problem
>>>>>>>>>>> at all.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Sarah & Miguel
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Peggy" <pshald at neb.rr.com>
>>>>>>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
>>>>>>>>>>> Users"
>>>>>>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, April 15, 2011 6:29 AM
>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] should guides be given a second
>>>>>>>>>>> ownerifitdoesn'tworkout
>>>>>>>>>>> with the first owner?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> That's just it, you have no idea why the match didn't work, I'd
>>>>>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>>>>> curious
>>>>>>>>>>>> to find out, but schools don't always provide that information.
>>>>>>>>>>>> My
>>>>>>>>>>>> current Seeing Eye dog is a reissued dog and she is one of the
>>>>>>>>>>>> best
>>>>>>>>>>>> dogs
>>>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>>> have ever had. As I said I'll always wonder why her previous
>>>>>>>>>>>> match
>>>>>>>>>>>> didn't
>>>>>>>>>>>> work out but she is wonderful ... she was taken back to the
>>>>>>>>>>>> school,
>>>>>>>>>>>> re-evaluated and whatever else they have to do. She lived in
>>>>>>>>>>>> one
>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> instructor's offices for supervision for quite a while. It was
>>>>>>>>>>>> determined
>>>>>>>>>>>> that she was still workable and was then matched with me and
>>>>>>>>>>>> it's
>>>>>>>>>>>> turned
>>>>>>>>>>>> out wonderful.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>>>> From: Sarah Clark
>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2011 10:15 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
>>>>>>>>>>>> Users
>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] should guides be given a second owner
>>>>>>>>>>>> ifitdoesn'tworkout with the first owner?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I don't think you can turn down all reissues, or classify them
>>>>>>>>>>>> all
>>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> same category. True that an occasional dog that is a reissue
>>>>>>>>>>>> may
>>>>>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>>>>> been
>>>>>>>>>>>> sent back for unpleasant reasons like being too hard to handle
>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> handler, or certain health conditions that wouldn't stop the
>>>>>>>>>>>> dog
>>>>>>>>>>>> from
>>>>>>>>>>>> working but that the handler didn't want to deal with, etc, but
>>>>>>>>>>>> many
>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>> them
>>>>>>>>>>>> are sent back for reasons that are not negative at all. Maybe
>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> dog
>>>>>>>>>>>> just
>>>>>>>>>>>> walked too fast for the handler and they got home and realized
>>>>>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>> they couldn't slow the dog down (this happened to my husband
>>>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>> guide
>>>>>>>>>>>> many years ago). Maybe it just wasn't a good match. Or maybe
>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> person
>>>>>>>>>>>> lived in a very hot climate and the dog just couldn't handle
>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> extreme
>>>>>>>>>>>> heat (also happened with someone I know).
>>>>>>>>>>>> I wouldn't think twice about taking a reissue if the school
>>>>>>>>>>>> thinks
>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> dog
>>>>>>>>>>>> is a good match for me and what I'm looking for. Its also true
>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>>>>>>> have the experience under their belt so are often more seasoned
>>>>>>>>>>>> than
>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> younger dogs. Though it is clear that some applicants don't
>>>>>>>>>>>> want
>>>>>>>>>>>> them
>>>>>>>>>>>> because each school I have applied to has asked during the
>>>>>>>>>>>> interview
>>>>>>>>>>>> if
>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd
>>>>>>>>>>>> be open to having one.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Sarah & Miguel
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Lyn Gwizdak" <linda.gwizdak at cox.net>
>>>>>>>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
>>>>>>>>>>>> Users"
>>>>>>>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2011 3:01 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] should guides be given a second owner if
>>>>>>>>>>>> itdoesn'tworkout with the first owner?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>I know a guy who had a guide who had been reissued. This dog
>>>>>>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>with
>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>guy who got himself arrested and a jail term and the dog was
>>>>>>>>>>>>> taken
>>>>>>>>>>>>> from
>>>>>>>>>>>>>him and my friend got this same dog. Boy, what stories this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>dog
>>>>>>>>>>>>>could
>>>>>>>>>>>>>have told if he could talk! It was a very nice dog and she
>>>>>>>>>>>>> worked
>>>>>>>>>>>>> well
>>>>>>>>>>>>>for my friend and she had a good long working life.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lyn and Landon
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Lisa Irving" <lirving1234 at cox.net>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Users"
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2011 1:24 AM
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] should guides be given a second owner if
>>>>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>>>>> doesn'tworkout with the first owner?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi there, Tami and Brittney,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The more I contemplate the re issuance of a guide dog, I keep
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thinking
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> how much it means to me when someone gives me a second
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> chance.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Our
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dogs
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> deserve as many chances as we can give them; first time out,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> re
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> issued.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lisa and Bernie
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Tamara Smith-Kinney" <tamara.8024 at comcast.net>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dog
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Users'"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2011 10:36 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] should guides be given a second owner if
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> doesn'twork out with the first owner?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Brittney,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm glad you asked this question. That's one of those
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> program
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> policies
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ran across while researching for owner-training, and my
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> first
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> response
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the notion was very negative.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Since then, I've heard of enough positive experience with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dogs
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> who
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> were
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reissued after being returned to have a more favorable view
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> practice.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Most of what I've heard is from people who have done well
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> re-issued
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dogs or from people who know people... /smile/ Still, I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> get
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> now
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and understand the reasoning others have explained, and it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> does
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> seem
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> work
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for the most part. There will certainly be times when it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> doesn't,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is true of matches in general.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As for whether you're over-reacting... As a still pretty
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> new
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> only
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> somewhat experienced guide dog handler, also an
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> owner-trainer
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> then
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> self-taught handler, I've been observing the attitudes and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ways
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thinking
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of handlers at or just above my level of experience as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> closely
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> those of the long-timers. I can watch my peers in that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> regard
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> give
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> myself a reality check as to how I'm coming along not just
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> skill
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> maturity as a handler while I'm learning from those with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> much
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> experience.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So here's my observation, based not just on myself but on a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> generalized
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> group of other first time handlers going through or just
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> coming
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> past
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> team building phase: We over-react. To everything. /lol/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> good,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bad, the mundane... It is all new and exciting and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> frightening
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wonderful and awful, all beyond belief. We popped out to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dinner
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> just
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> evening, and at the restaurant there was just this one
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> little
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that no
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> one would have noticed beyond our table... Outwardly, I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> remained
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> calm
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> responded correctly and it was all okay. Inwardly, what did
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> do?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> /lol/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> OMG! How can this be? What can it mean? Oh, no, this is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> terrible!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Then I noticed nothing had actually happened that was worth
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fuss and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> got over it. /smile/ More and more, it's all old hat, but
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> apparently
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I can
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> still freak out just fine over absolutely nothing.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As for working through bad habits in your re-issue dog... I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> think
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> others
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are right in their observations that during the first year
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> always be something that will make you absolutely crazy
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dog.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> your first dog, these will be far more magnified in your own
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mind
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> than
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> those you work with later on as a truly experience dhandler.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bad
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> habits
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> need to be dealt with and modified, certainly, but it's not
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> really
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> habit for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you yet to deal with those ups and downs. So you really
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> think
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> way through it and notice every little thing and try to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> figure
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> out
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> how
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> counteract and... Well, on and on. It just takes awhile
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> become havit and natural. I've only been there for a short
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> while
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> minor blips where I freak out over nothing -- and that sure
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nice!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Good luck with your dog; sounds like you're coming through
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tream
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> building phase and are starting on the next one -- which is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> where
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> falls together and you're just you working your guide.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> /smile/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> loving
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that, and trying to hold onto that feeling as I move into
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> taking
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for granted phase.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tami Smith-Kinney
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Behalf
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Of Brittney N. Mejico
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2011 3:20 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: the National Association of Guide Dog Users NAGDU
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mailing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> List
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [nagdu] should guides be given a second owner if it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> doesn't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> work
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> out with the first owner?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hello all,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My dog had another handler before me. I don't think that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> guides
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> should
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> given another handlerbecause the dog picksup a lot of bad
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> habits
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are really hard to get rid of. I love my dog very muchand
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> harvard
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> has
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> changed my life, but it took me a year to stop a lot of her
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bad
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> habbits, and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we still have some work to do. What do you guys think? am I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> over
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reacting?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Dream as if you'll live forever, live as if you'll die today.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
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