[nagdu] GDA Ownership Agreement
Tamara Smith-Kinney
tamara.8024 at comcast.net
Fri Apr 22 19:38:42 UTC 2011
Yay! Good job. Is there any reason not to include those you receive on the
website right away?
Tami Smith-Kinney
-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Marion Gwizdala
Sent: Friday, April 22, 2011 10:32 AM
To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: [nagdu] GDA Ownership Agreement
Julie and Listers,
Attached to this mesage is Guide Dogs of America's ownership agreement.
It was sent to me upon my request. FYI, I also asked GDF for their ownership
agreement and am in the process of making similar requests to each of the
training programs. As of this writing, I have received no other replies.
Fraternally yours,
Marion Gwizdala
----- Original Message -----
From: "Julie J" <julielj at neb.rr.com>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, April 22, 2011 1:20 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Lisa and All: Bill of Rights
>I guess I thought GDA gave true legal ownership. That doesn't sound like
>what they offer. that's kind of disappointing.
>
> Does anyone know if the ownership contracts of any of the programs are
> available on the internet? For me, being able to read the contract would
> help me immensely in deciding if that is a program I would want to apply
> to. It seems a large waste of everyone's time to apply, be accepted and
> then read the contract only to find out it isn't something I'm willing to
> sign.
>
> thoughts?
> Julie
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Brittney N. Mejico" <brittneymejico at verizon.net>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2011 7:15 PM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Lisa and All: Bill of Rights
>
>
>> Julie
>> They give ownership of your dog to you, but if they hear that your dog
>> is being abused or someone other than you is using your guide dog they
>> have the right to take your dog At least that's what they told me.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Julie J
>> Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2011 4:48 PM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Lisa and All: Bill of Rights
>>
>> Brittney,
>>
>> I thought GDA gave ownership to their grads. Is there something in the
>> contract that allows them to take a dog you own? I'm confused.
>>
>> I'm glad it all worked out in the end, but sorry you had to go through
>> that.
>>
>> Julie
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Brittney N. Mejico" <brittneymejico at verizon.net>
>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2011 6:23 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Lisa and All: Bill of Rights
>>
>>
>>> Hi Tami and Lyn,
>>> I would like to thank both of you for sharing your experiences.Both of
>>> you guys stories have helped me out. I can't put it into words how
>>> much. I got my dog from GDA and nothing against anyone who goes there
>>> but man they LOVE LOVE good stories. I found this out about six months
>>> ago. My grandmother told them that my X boy friend hits and kicks my
>>> guide dog and they believed her. They took my dog and then gave her
>>> back after they couldn't find any proof that she had been abused. It
>>> was a totally uncool experience. Yes the fabracated stories have to
>>> stop. I thought that I was the only one who has had some person make up
>>> a story about them and have the school take someone elses side but
>>> yours.I am just thankful I got my dog back. I am glad that I now know
>>> know that the schools talk to each other.I hope this issue does not
>>> effect me if I ever apply for another guide.
>>>
>>> Thanks a bunch
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Tamara Smith-Kinney
>>> Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2011 9:34 AM
>>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Lisa and All: Bill of Rights
>>>
>>> Lyn,
>>>
>>> Had that experience with my application to GDB, through the Boring
>>> campus,
>>> which I attempted to finish up after the big disaster at Oregon
>>> Commission
>>> for the Blind. Oh, they definitely talk to each other, too! And the
>>> GDB
>>> interviewer and, apparently, the selection committee, clearly believed
>>> them
>>> hook line and sinker!
>>>
>>> So the one reason given that was GDB's own is that I had set a load of
>>> laundry by the kitchen door to the basement because the washers were
>>> full.
>>> It was still there when she arrived for the home interview, so when I
>>> showed
>>> her around, I explained that I'd set it there for later instead of
>>> carrying
>>> it up another flight of stairs in my house and having to carry it down
>>> that
>>> same extra flight later on when it was my turn for the laundry room.
>>> Apparently, if I will do such a carefless, negligent, dangerous thing
>>> when
>>> there is no dog in the house, I will almost certainly kill any guide dog
>>> of
>>> theirs because it will eat a sock and die. Turns out, that did
>>> apparently
>>> happen to one of their dogs way back in the mists of history. So I've
>>> heard
>>> others scratching their heads about the dire danger of socks and how
>>> come
>>> they have to keep hearing about how their going to kill their dogs if
>>> they
>>> drop a sock on the floor. Very odd. I'm not knocking the program or
>>> their
>>> dogs, since we all know they turn out good dogs and happy grads who
>>> somehow
>>> manage to avoid the dangers of lurking killer socks.
>>>
>>> The other two points in the letter were straight from Oregon Commission
>>> for
>>> the Blind, almost verbatim. The mobility instructor -- who also did
>>> some
>>> in-home living skills instructing -- reported that my ability to
>>> navigate
>>> and orient, along with my ability to accomplish household tasks without
>>> assistance from her, allowing her to play spider solitaire on my
>>> computer,
>>> indicated that I was using my really great vision to do these things.
>>> She
>>> did not -- or the letter from GDB did not mention this detail -- that I
>>> was
>>> performing those tasks under sleep shade. Anyway, since I had really
>>> great
>>> vision and didn't need a guide dog and would most certainly screw it up
>>> if
>>> it lived long enough what with the socks and all, they preferred to save
>>> their dogs for blind people who needed them. Sigh.
>>>
>>> Also, because of what had happened when I came across the state to the
>>> Living Skills Center and nearly ended up dead, it appeared I had some
>>> serious mental health issues and would, you know, do bad things to the
>>> dog.
>>> Um... I had a real problem with that one, since I was getting through
>>> the
>>> PTSD from all that, and had been declared in the aftermath by not one
>>> but
>>> three licensed and qualified professionals using metric tools and
>>> everything
>>> to be quite sane otherwise and to be handling the PTSD in a surprisingly
>>> mentally healthy way even before I got into counseling for it. Also, it
>>> seemed to me that it might be helpful for me to know if the OCB had
>>> crossed
>>> the line somewhere in what they communicated to the guide dog program
>>> when
>>> they submitted the O&M assessment the program required. I had been
>>> quite
>>> open with the interviewer from GDB, and I did give them a release of
>>> information from the counselor I was still seeing for the PTSD, then
>>> chatted
>>> about it in session while going through the status check part of the
>>> conversation. The counselor's input matched with my general perception
>>> of
>>> my own reality -- still got a ways to go, but doing well, can expect a
>>> good
>>> outcome, have coping skills to use in moving along, etc., etc. She
>>> didn't
>>> tell me what she planned to report to GDB, or what she did report, which
>>> seemed pretty professional of her, so I didn't really worry about it.
>>> She
>>> struck me as the type to do her job as she should, which was to give an
>>> accurate report on my mental health status...
>>>
>>> I did want to discuss the issue with the interviewer from GDB, though,
>>> to
>>> find out what was going on there, how to correctly translate their
>>> statement
>>> from the letter, and to find out what I needed to do to resolve the
>>> issue in
>>> the event I decided to reapply at the appropriate time... No return
>>> communication. Tried the boss... Nope! At that point, I noticed that
>>> I
>>> seem to have ordered a poodle to be delivered to my home and had better
>>> things to do than worry about what a bunch of strangers thought of how
>>> dangerous crazy I must be. Doesn't matter to me at all and doesn't
>>> affect
>>> me in any way, so Bob's your uncle! Mitzi lives! /evil grin/
>>>
>>> Black listing people based on rumor and innuendo and possibly flat out
>>> lies
>>> has got to go!
>>>
>>> Tami Smith-Kinney
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>> Behalf
>>> Of Lyn Gwizdak
>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2011 9:36 AM
>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Lisa and All: Bill of Rights
>>>
>>> Guide Dogs of America and GDB for believing fabricated stories. The
>>> "busy
>>> body" I referred to in my post is someone who fabricates stories here
>>> locally and she is known to do this for years. In other words, she
>>> doesn't
>>>
>>> have much real credibility aroound here and wwe're glad she moved out of
>>> town although we see her around from time to time. She personally
>>> doesn't
>>> like me for my refusal to be intimidated by her and that I am LGBT.
>>>
>>> I know that people get good dogs from them and that's fine. I just will
>>> never go back there again. I don't dump on either school and respect
>>> people's choices as to where they wish to get their dog from. This is
>>> all
>>> my own personal experiences with these two schools, that's all.
>>>
>>> Also, as a result of the refusal of services by GDA, I got turned down
>>> by
>>> GDB - with the "giving my retired guide to another person to use as a
>>> guide"
>>>
>>> rationale. Whatever. I'm glad I went back to TSE.
>>>
>>> Whether we realize it of not, these schools talk to each other about
>>> prospective students. What I was upset about is that GDB believed the
>>> stories rather than finding out the truth about me and what really
>>> happened
>>> with the retired guide dog.
>>>
>>> When I applied to TSE, I told them about this situation because I
>>> thought
>>> they might hear it from someone other than from me. As far as TSE was
>>> concerned, I already had a track record with them and they accepted me
>>> back
>>> with no problem. I have had nothing but adult treatment and respect
>>> from
>>> TSE.
>>>
>>> Lyn and Landon
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Brittney N. Mejico" <brittneymejico at verizon.net>
>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2011 5:39 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Lisa and All: Bill of Rights
>>>
>>>
>>>> hay Lyn
>>>> Witch School in california did you go to? That is crazy they treated
>>>> you
>>>> like that
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Lyn Gwizdak
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2011 4:19 PM
>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Lisa and All: Bill of Rights
>>>>
>>>> Got that right, Marion!
>>>>
>>>> Back in 1990, I went to a California guide dog school. While at the
>>>> school,
>>>> I befriended a man there who was on class with me. this man's brother
>>>> was
>>>> also in the same class and the two brothers did NOT get along with each
>>>> other. Why they were put into the same class, I don't know. However
>>>> they
>>>> did. The brother of they guy I hung out with would do stuff to
>>>> irritate
>>>> his
>>>> brother like come into the room where we were sitting and blow
>>>> cigarette
>>>> smoke at us. I asked the brother to not do this as I never did
>>>> anything
>>>> to
>>>> him and that we should be adults on class even if the two of them
>>>> didn't
>>>> get
>>>> along.
>>>>
>>>> Well, after that, the instructor called the three of us -
>>>> individually -
>>>> into his office and proceeded to threaten us with being sent home
>>>> without
>>>> our dogs if the crap didn't stop. Well, I was VERY upset over this
>>>> treatment especially since I was doing NOTHING wrong or breaking any of
>>>> the
>>>> house rules or disrespecting any other person there. Fortunately, the
>>>> crap
>>>> stopped and we all went home with our dogs.
>>>>
>>>> Then, when I retired the dog and wanted to return for another one, the
>>>> school said I violated the contract by "giving my retired dog to
>>>> another
>>>> person to use as a guide" - which was not true! I gave the dog to the
>>>> woman's husband for a PET as my friend already had a guide dog from
>>>> that
>>>> same school. These people moved out of state and she sent her dog back
>>>> and
>>>> then used my retired dog as her guide. They moved back here, a local
>>>> busybody saw her with my dog and reported to the school. The trainer
>>>> came
>>>> to talk to us and I told him that I gave the dog to the husband and
>>>> that I
>>>> mailed the harness back. I thought it was all clear and then I got
>>>> denied
>>>> when I applied for a dog with that school six months later. I was
>>>> denied
>>>> service by this school. that was fine - it got me to venture across
>>>> the
>>>> country to go back to TSE for my next dog and I've been with TSE ever
>>>> since!
>>>>
>>>> WE need to find the schools who respect us and not be paternalistic
>>>> towards
>>>> us and stick with their program! You're right, marion, the schools
>>>> EXIST
>>>> because of the blind people who want guide dogs and they must realize
>>>> this
>>>> and be respectful towards us.
>>>>
>>>> Lyn and Landon
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Marion Gwizdala" <blind411 at verizon.net>
>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2011 2:32 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Lisa and All: Bill of Rights
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Brittney,
>>>>> I object to the characteristic of the guide dog consumer as a
>>>>> "beggar". Guide dog training programs raise millions of dollars each
>>>>> year
>>>
>>>>> with the assertion that they are doing something beneficial and
>>>>> enhancing
>>>
>>>>> for the blind. Donors - many of whom are their own consumers - donate
>>>>> these millions with the same intent. If it were not for us, those
>>>>> employed by the training programs would not be earning their livings.
>>>>> The idea that we have no say and must settle for whatever we
>>>>> receive
>>>>> with no rights to address abuse or maltreatment is archaic. Most
>>>>> training
>>>
>>>>> programs obviously view their blind consumers as nothing more than
>>>>> wards
>>>>> who are unable to govern their own lives, let alone take care of a
>>>>> dog.
>>>>> What other reason would they have for not transferring ownership upon
>>>>> completion of the program? I have heard many justifications and
>>>>> rationalizations for this paternalistic practice but none of them are
>>>>> convincing. It is time for us to discard the notion that we are
>>>>> beholden
>>>>> to the training programs and demand to be treated equitably and with
>>>>> the
>>>>> dignity many of these programs mistakenly assert they provide.
>>>>>
>>>>> Fraternally yours,
>>>>> Marion Gwizdala
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Brittney N. Mejico" <brittneymejico at verizon.net>
>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Monday, April 18, 2011 7:08 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Lisa and All: Bill of Rights
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>> Do we have rights as guide dog users? Most schools give us our dogs
>>>>>> for
>>>
>>>>>> free or they charge a small fee that I think is extremely cheap.
>>>>>> Beggers can't be choosers I guess. I think we should be informed of
>>>>>> any alergy or behavior problem but sometimes we aren't. I think the
>>>>>> schools try there best we can't blame them for things that they may
>>>>>> have
>>>
>>>>>> missed. My guide has alergies, I found this after I brought her
>>>>>> home. I
>>>
>>>>>> contacted the school I got her from, and they helped me find a food
>>>>>> that didn't cause her problems. A lot of people I know there guide
>>>>>> dogs
>>>
>>>>>> have alergies, I don't know why, I guess things just happen.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: Lyn Gwizdak
>>>>>> Sent: Monday, April 18, 2011 2:43 PM
>>>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Lisa and All: Bill of Rights
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi guys,
>>>>>> As a side discussion to this, it seems to me that many more dogs are
>>>>>> cropping up with one kind or another allergy these days. When I
>>>>>> lived
>>>>>> back
>>>>>> east I never really encountered this problem until I moved to
>>>>>> California.
>>>>>> Now I hear that the dogs in the east coast have this problem as
>>>>>> well -
>>>>>> actually dogs all over the US. Is this my imagination or are the
>>>>>> dogs
>>>>>> coming out of the schools now actually having more allergies? Input
>>>>>> anyone?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The Bill of Rights thing sounds good to me. I think the schools do
>>>>>> what
>>>>>> they can to try to make sure that the dogs we get are in good health.
>>>>>> But
>>>>>> these same dogs go through the hands of puppy raisers who either want
>>>>>> their
>>>>>> dog to suceed as a guide for a blind person or they want it to fail
>>>>>> so
>>>>>> they
>>>>>> can keep it as a pet (I actually encountered a puppy raiser like
>>>>>> this -
>>>>>> they
>>>>>> got found out and dropped from the program.). I wonder if the only
>>>>>> info
>>>
>>>>>> on
>>>>>> a given dog is only that provided by the puppy raiser in their
>>>>>> reports
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> the school. then there are the problems that nobody forsees like
>>>>>> regional
>>>>>> allergies or other problems that come up after the dog is exposed to
>>>>>> something as a ongoing thing after it goes out with a graduate.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> JUst wondering about these things. And then a dog is a living being
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> there's no guarentees.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Lyn and Landon
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: "Lisa Irving" <lirving1234 at cox.net>
>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2011 10:43 PM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Lisa and All: Bill of Rights
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Marion, I'm not quite sure what I'm doing here.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Consumers shall receive verbal and written notification by the
>>>>>>> school
>>>>>>> when a food allergy has been identified by the puppy raiser and or
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> assigned veterinarian. With holding such vital information could
>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>> devastating results for the guide dog team.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Lisa and Bernie
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>> From: "Marion Gwizdala" <blind411 at verizon.net>
>>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
>>>>>>> Users"
>>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2011 3:26 AM
>>>>>>> Subject: [nagdu] Lisa and All: Bill of Rights
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Lisa,
>>>>>>>> Let me ask you to complete this statement as it pertains to the
>>>>>>>> issues you raise. Please keep the statement succinct, about one or
>>>>>>>> two
>>>
>>>>>>>> sentences. Anyone else who wants to take a stab at it is welcome to
>>>>>>>> do
>>>
>>>>>>>> so. As a guideline, here is the statement that would precede this
>>>>>>>> one.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> a. Consumers shall expect that every effort shall be made to
>>>>>>>> provide dogs in excellent health and appropriate temperament
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Now, complete this statement to provide that the program discloses
>>>>>>>> this information:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The guide dog training program shall disclose ....
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I look forward to your input on our Bill of Rights!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> fraternally yours,
>>>>>>>> Marion Gwizdala
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>> From: "Lisa Irving" <lirving1234 at cox.net>
>>>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
>>>>>>>> Users"
>>>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2011 1:16 AM
>>>>>>>> Subject: [nagdu] when should schools give information about dog
>>>>>>>> guides
>>>
>>>>>>>> and re issued guides
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I believe the school has an obligation to be up front with the
>>>>>>>>> student. I respect that the school doesn't want to set the
>>>>>>>>> student
>>>>>>>>> or the dog up for frustration and failure. This is what I base my
>>>>>>>>> belief on.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> My first guide dog was a sweet and stubborn Goldie. She was a
>>>>>>>>> finicky
>>>
>>>>>>>>> eater too. The school said nothing about her propensity to not
>>>>>>>>> eat.
>>>>>>>>> However, the puppy raiser did tell me on the sly. I was told that
>>>>>>>>> from the "get-go" my Goldie was a fussy eater. The puppyraisers
>>>>>>>>> used
>>>>>>>>> unconventional ways to get her to eat. They sprinkled Parmashon
>>>>>>>>> cheese on her food. That's all right by me. They also 'fessed up
>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> slipping her people food. I'm glad they told me. It helped me be
>>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>> the alert.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> My second dog, Louie, was a ever hungry Labrador. The puppyraisers
>>>>>>>>> said something about all of his allergies and how he needed
>>>>>>>>> special
>>>>>>>>> food. I disregarded what they said because I figured if my dog had
>>>>>>>>> various food allergies the school would know and they would tell
>>>>>>>>> me.
>>>>>>>>> Louie is the dog I returned because I thought he had behavioral
>>>>>>>>> issues. No, he had very severe food allergies which explained why
>>>>>>>>> he
>>>>>>>>> learned to get the bungy cords off the trash cans and feast. He
>>>>>>>>> also
>>>>>>>>> feasted on animal feces too.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Bernie, my third guide dog, probably has some food allergies. Not
>>>>>>>>> wanting a sad repeat of the previous food related experiences with
>>>>>>>>> Louie, I nipped the problem in the bud. That is, Bernie ate two
>>>>>>>>> different dog foods that left him with gooey poo. Bernie eats a
>>>>>>>>> fresh and whole food quality dog food. The joke is, I can eat the
>>>>>>>>> dog's food if I really want a truly healthy and balanced diet.{In
>>>>>>>>> Bernie's food is: salmon, barley, beets, carrots and ginger and
>>>>>>>>> other
>>>
>>>>>>>>> items{.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Lisa and Bernie , ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>> From: "Tracy Carcione" <carcione at access.net>
>>>>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
>>>>>>>>> Users"
>>>>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, April 15, 2011 12:05 PM
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] should guides be given a second
>>>>>>>>> ownerifitdoesn'tworkout with the first owner?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Hi Sarah.
>>>>>>>>>> Quite true. Though I'd be happy if the puppy raiser would let me
>>>>>>>>>> know if,
>>>>>>>>>> say, the dog was a habitual counter surfer. Though they probably
>>>>>>>>>> wouldn't, for fear of getting their puppy dropped from training.
>>>>>>>>>> I figure knowledge is power, and I'm a big girl who won't go nuts
>>>>>>>>>> over
>>>>>>>>>> little problems. But you're probably right that no one is going
>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>> tell
>>>>>>>>>> me all I'd like to know.
>>>>>>>>>> Tracy
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Tracy,
>>>>>>>>>>> I was just comparing it to what we know about the guides we
>>>>>>>>>>> receive
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> who
>>>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>>>> not reissues. They normally don't tell us about those things
>>>>>>>>>>> when
>>>>>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>>>>>> receive a nonreissue, so I wouldn't really expect them to for a
>>>>>>>>>>> reissue
>>>>>>>>>>> just
>>>>>>>>>>> because it was a reissue.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Sarah & Miguel
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Tracy Carcione" <carcione at access.net>
>>>>>>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
>>>>>>>>>>> Users"
>>>>>>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, April 15, 2011 11:20 AM
>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] should guides be given a second
>>>>>>>>>>> ownerifitdoesn'tworkout
>>>>>>>>>>> with the first owner?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Sarah.
>>>>>>>>>>>> I don't think I buy your argument. There could be plenty of
>>>>>>>>>>>> undesirable
>>>>>>>>>>>> behaviors I might never think to mention. For example, Ben
>>>>>>>>>>>> empties on
>>>>>>>>>>>> route. The best I've managed to do is teach him to pull over
>>>>>>>>>>>> first. To
>>>>>>>>>>>> me, this is a very undesirable behavior, but it did not occur
>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>> me
>>>>>>>>>>>> during
>>>>>>>>>>>> the matching process to say so, any more than I would think to
>>>>>>>>>>>> mention
>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>> a shoe salesman that I don't want my shoe laces coming untied
>>>>>>>>>>>> every 5
>>>>>>>>>>>> minutes.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Personally, I'd like to at least be made aware of any
>>>>>>>>>>>> undesirable
>>>>>>>>>>>> behavior
>>>>>>>>>>>> the school is aware of, so I could either take immediate steps
>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>> correct
>>>>>>>>>>>> it, or decide I don't want to deal with it at all. You can
>>>>>>>>>>>> bet,
>>>>>>>>>>>> next
>>>>>>>>>>>> time, I'll say very loudly that I don't want a dog who empties
>>>>>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>>>>> route.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Then they'll probably give me a counter surfer instead.
>>>>>>>>>>>> <grimace.>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Tracy
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Peggy,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thinking about it, you probably don't even really need to know
>>>>>>>>>>>>> why the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> match
>>>>>>>>>>>>> didn't work, if its not something that is going to impact you.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The
>>>>>>>>>>>>> only
>>>>>>>>>>>>> reason I can think of that a handler would need to know is if
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> dog
>>>>>>>>>>>>> has
>>>>>>>>>>>>> some kind of medical condition where it is going to need
>>>>>>>>>>>>> prescription
>>>>>>>>>>>>> dog
>>>>>>>>>>>>> food, or baths every couple weeks, or something else that is
>>>>>>>>>>>>> going to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>> real hassel and/or cost a lot more money than usual. But then
>>>>>>>>>>>>> again,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd
>>>>>>>>>>>>> think a handler should know this about any dog regardless if
>>>>>>>>>>>>> its
>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>> reissue
>>>>>>>>>>>>> or not.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> As long as the reissue matches what the new handler wants, and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> handler
>>>>>>>>>>>>> is specific in what they want, there shouldn't be any
>>>>>>>>>>>>> problems.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> If the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> previous handler returned the dog because they didn't like
>>>>>>>>>>>>> something
>>>>>>>>>>>>> such
>>>>>>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>>>>>>> that the dog scavenged a lot or counter surfed, etc, that
>>>>>>>>>>>>> shouldn't
>>>>>>>>>>>>> matter
>>>>>>>>>>>>> too much either because if the new handler specifically
>>>>>>>>>>>>> doesn't
>>>>>>>>>>>>> want to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> deal
>>>>>>>>>>>>> with a major food distraction issue, they'd want to request a
>>>>>>>>>>>>> dog
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>>> isn't
>>>>>>>>>>>>> too food distracted, or ideally, who doesn't have a food
>>>>>>>>>>>>> distraction
>>>>>>>>>>>>> problem
>>>>>>>>>>>>> at all.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sarah & Miguel
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Peggy" <pshald at neb.rr.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Users"
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, April 15, 2011 6:29 AM
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] should guides be given a second
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ownerifitdoesn'tworkout
>>>>>>>>>>>>> with the first owner?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That's just it, you have no idea why the match didn't work,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> curious
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to find out, but schools don't always provide that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> information.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> current Seeing Eye dog is a reissued dog and she is one of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> best
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dogs
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have ever had. As I said I'll always wonder why her previous
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> match
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> didn't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> work out but she is wonderful ... she was taken back to the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> school,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> re-evaluated and whatever else they have to do. She lived in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> one of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> instructor's offices for supervision for quite a while. It
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> determined
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that she was still workable and was then matched with me and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it's
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> turned
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> out wonderful.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: Sarah Clark
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2011 10:15 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Users
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] should guides be given a second owner
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ifitdoesn'tworkout with the first owner?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I don't think you can turn down all reissues, or classify
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> them
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> same category. True that an occasional dog that is a reissue
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> may have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> been
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sent back for unpleasant reasons like being too hard to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> handle
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> handler, or certain health conditions that wouldn't stop the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dog
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> working but that the handler didn't want to deal with, etc,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> many
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> them
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are sent back for reasons that are not negative at all.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Maybe
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the dog
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> just
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> walked too fast for the handler and they got home and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> realized
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they couldn't slow the dog down (this happened to my husband
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> guide
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> many years ago). Maybe it just wasn't a good match. Or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> maybe
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> person
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lived in a very hot climate and the dog just couldn't handle
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> extreme
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> heat (also happened with someone I know).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I wouldn't think twice about taking a reissue if the school
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thinks the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dog
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is a good match for me and what I'm looking for. Its also
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> true
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have the experience under their belt so are often more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> seasoned
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> than
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> younger dogs. Though it is clear that some applicants don't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> want them
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> because each school I have applied to has asked during the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> interview
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> if
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be open to having one.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sarah & Miguel
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Lyn Gwizdak" <linda.gwizdak at cox.net>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Users"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2011 3:01 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] should guides be given a second owner if
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> itdoesn'tworkout with the first owner?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I know a guy who had a guide who had been reissued. This dog
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>was with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>guy who got himself arrested and a jail term and the dog was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>taken
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>him and my friend got this same dog. Boy, what stories this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>dog
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>could
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>have told if he could talk! It was a very nice dog and she
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>worked
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> well
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>for my friend and she had a good long working life.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lyn and Landon
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Lisa Irving" <lirving1234 at cox.net>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dog
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Users"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2011 1:24 AM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] should guides be given a second owner
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> if
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> doesn'tworkout with the first owner?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi there, Tami and Brittney,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The more I contemplate the re issuance of a guide dog, I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> keep
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thinking
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> how much it means to me when someone gives me a second
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> chance.
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Our
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dogs
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> deserve as many chances as we can give them; first time
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> out,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or re
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> issued.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lisa and Bernie
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Tamara Smith-Kinney" <tamara.8024 at comcast.net>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dog
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Users'"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2011 10:36 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] should guides be given a second owner
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> if
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> doesn'twork out with the first owner?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Brittney,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm glad you asked this question. That's one of those
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> program
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> policies
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ran across while researching for owner-training, and my
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> first
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> response
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the notion was very negative.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Since then, I've heard of enough positive experience with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dogs who
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> were
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reissued after being returned to have a more favorable
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> view
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> practice.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Most of what I've heard is from people who have done well
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> re-issued
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dogs or from people who know people... /smile/ Still, I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> get
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> now
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and understand the reasoning others have explained, and it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> does
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> seem
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> work
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for the most part. There will certainly be times when it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> doesn't,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is true of matches in general.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As for whether you're over-reacting... As a still pretty
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> new
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> only
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> somewhat experienced guide dog handler, also an
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> owner-trainer
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> then
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> self-taught handler, I've been observing the attitudes and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ways of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thinking
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of handlers at or just above my level of experience as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> closely as I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> those of the long-timers. I can watch my peers in that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> regard to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> give
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> myself a reality check as to how I'm coming along not just
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> skill
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> maturity as a handler while I'm learning from those with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> much
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> experience.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So here's my observation, based not just on myself but on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> generalized
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> group of other first time handlers going through or just
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> coming
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> past
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> team building phase: We over-react. To everything.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> /lol/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> good,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bad, the mundane... It is all new and exciting and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> frightening and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wonderful and awful, all beyond belief. We popped out to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dinner
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> just
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> evening, and at the restaurant there was just this one
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> little
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that no
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> one would have noticed beyond our table... Outwardly, I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> remained
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> calm
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> responded correctly and it was all okay. Inwardly, what
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> did
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I do?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> /lol/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> OMG! How can this be? What can it mean? Oh, no, this is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> terrible!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Then I noticed nothing had actually happened that was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> worth
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fuss and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> got over it. /smile/ More and more, it's all old hat,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> apparently
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I can
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> still freak out just fine over absolutely nothing.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As for working through bad habits in your re-issue dog...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> think
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> others
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are right in their observations that during the first year
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> always be something that will make you absolutely crazy
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dog.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> your first dog, these will be far more magnified in your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> own
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mind
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> than
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> those you work with later on as a truly experience
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dhandler.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bad
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> habits
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> need to be dealt with and modified, certainly, but it's
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> really
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> habit for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you yet to deal with those ups and downs. So you really
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> think
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> way through it and notice every little thing and try to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> figure out
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> how
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> counteract and... Well, on and on. It just takes awhile
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> become havit and natural. I've only been there for a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> short
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> while
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> minor blips where I freak out over nothing -- and that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sure
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nice!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Good luck with your dog; sounds like you're coming through
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tream
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> building phase and are starting on the next one -- which
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> where
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> falls together and you're just you working your guide.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> /smile/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> loving
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that, and trying to hold onto that feeling as I move into
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> taking
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for granted phase.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tami Smith-Kinney
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Behalf
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Of Brittney N. Mejico
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2011 3:20 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: the National Association of Guide Dog Users NAGDU
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mailing
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> List
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [nagdu] should guides be given a second owner if
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> doesn't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> work
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> out with the first owner?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hello all,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My dog had another handler before me. I don't think that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> guides
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> should
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> given another handlerbecause the dog picksup a lot of bad
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> habits
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are really hard to get rid of. I love my dog very
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> muchand
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> harvard
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> has
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> changed my life, but it took me a year to stop a lot of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> her
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bad
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> habbits, and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we still have some work to do. What do you guys think? am
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> over
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reacting?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/lirving1234%40cox.net
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
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>>> et
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info for
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>>>
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>>> l.net
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dream as if you'll live forever, live as if you'll die today.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu:
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>>>
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>>> l.net
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>>>>>>> info
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>>>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu:
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>>>
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
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>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu:
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>>> l.net
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
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>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>>> for nagdu:
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>>>
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>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
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>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
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>>>
>>>>>>>>> nagdu:
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>>>
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>>> t
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
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>>>>>>>> nagdu:
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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