[nagdu] Questions About Guide Dogs

Wed Aug 31 19:44:08 UTC 2011

Hi:

Another thing I was thinking about with regartds to getting a dog is about time. As I walked to our rapid transit train and thenwalked from another stop to Subway and then to band practice, I was sort of laughing to myself since, when I had a cane, I wouldn't have done at least half of this walking. So much of my walking with Bogart guiding me is things like our walks after work which are really done to get him some exercise and work guiding me. Yes he guides me when I'm off to do things but I just find it funny that I'm off to go to do things more often because he needs to go out anyways, might as well go to the grocery store or whatever. 

I'm not sure what others time frames are with their dog but Bogart and I do a walk around a couple of blocks in the morning with him on leash and me using my cane where he gets to sniff and do his business. Around lunch time we go for another walk with some in harness and then about a block on leash for him to  do hsi business. If I'm at work we do a walk after work. The shortest length is about 15 to 20 blocks (about half an hour) and then we do our around the block walk again before going to bed. I also try to get bogart to the off leash park at least a couple of times a week for a good run and playing with other dogs. If not an off leash park then fid a walk/hike where he can be safely off leash enjoying the trails like we do.

I can almost guarantee that everyone on the list deals with their  dogs needs differently but this is certainly to be considered when thinking about getting a dog. People told me I'd get used to it and fit it around my life and that is mostly true. Sometimes I do wish Bogart would just go and walk himself but I think also wishes sometimes I would just take is pee and oops outside and not bother him withthe wind and the rain. :)

However, no matter what my rational mind says, my girlfirend says she can see how much Bogart has brought into my life (as well as hers) and how much I have grown to love him over the past year. We have our moments when I think he is an idiot and when he thinks I am as well but generally we trust each others decisions and keep moving forward.

Gary

----- Original Message -----
From: Buddy Brannan <buddy at brannan.name>
Date: Tuesday, August 30, 2011 7:56 pm
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Questions About Guide Dogs
To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>

> There are times when I use a cane, or use a cane and heel my 
> dog, but really, it's more than 90% dog by now for me. I 
> remember having the same misgivings though. And, really, 
> coordinating six legs and two brains does work, and I haven't 
> fallen off a curb or down a flight of stairs yet. Your dog will 
> stop at curbs and steps until you find them, and will then 
> continue upon your direction to do so. I hesitate to use the 
> word "command", because, even though we call them "commands" 
> (forward, left, right, and so on), they're really requests. The 
> "Forward" isn't really a command, as in, "Forward, let's go, no 
> arguments". Rather, it's "Forward, assuming it is safe to go 
> forward". So it's sort of more like a request than a command. 
> It's one of the things that separates a guide dog's training 
> from lots of other training, the so-called "intelligent 
> disobedience". In our work, the dog has a certain amount of 
> autonomy, a certain amount of latitude to make decisions that 
> just isn't the case with a
>  lot of training where"Sit" really means "Sit". 
> 
> Yes, it really is a big adjustment, and a lot of adjustments. 
> Not only do you have to learn a whole new way to look at 
> landmarks and clues and orienting yourself, but you have to 
> learn to give up a little bit of control, and to trust. Easy to 
> say, hard to do, and it's something that I, certainly, struggle 
> with, especially at first with a new dog. Fortunately, dogs are 
> flexible. Also fortunately, the dog is also learning to trust 
> you, so it's not all just you adjusting. 
> --
> Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
> Phone: (814) 860-3194 or 888-75-BUDDY
> 
> 
> 
> On Aug 30, 2011, at 10:38 PM, Tatyana wrote:
> 
> > Do you use a cane and  a dog? A cane for me now is  
> like a  part of me so I can't think to leave it and have a 
> dog as the only helper. How to deal with curbs and bumps, not stumble?
> > 
> >> Hi Larry,
> >> 
> >> Yeah, these guys are great in what they can be taught. Given 
> patience, time, and some training tricks you're likely to learn 
> at guide dog school and pick up along the way here and 
> elsewhere, a dog's ability to learn new skills is amazing.
> >> 
> >> I do think it's important to discuss the differences in 
> orientation with a dog versus with a cane. While you will use 
> many of the same skills, such as finding landmarks and using 
> environmental clues to determine where you are in space, the 
> landmarks and clues you use with a dog will of necessity often 
> be very different from the ones you use with a cane. A cane will 
> give you a lot of tactile landmarks, and you get a very in-depth 
> idea of your very immediate surroundings. This way, you can know 
> that you turn into the second driveway after the third mailbox 
> on your right. Or, you can know that just past the bench at shin 
> level, there is a trash can, and just past that you'll find a 
> bus stop pole. These kinds of things aren't as easy to do with a 
> dog. Since your dog will treat things in your path as obstacles, 
> you can't very well use them as landmarks, so you have to use 
> other things, such as the change in acoustics (for instance, are 
> you under an overhanging roof or not), changing in
>  pavement texture, and the like, not to mention estimating 
> distances to things. As time goes on, you'll even learn to use 
> things like your dog's reaction as environmental clues 
> unfamiliar routes. Strange but true. I think someone said that 
> with a dog, you've got more of a macro view of your 
> surroundings, where using a cane gives you a micro view, or a 
> more detailed view. Some people don't care about that, while 
> others may well feel very lost without all of the very immediate 
> tactile information one gets from a cane. I say there's a place 
> for both. Sometimes the close-in tactile world is a great tool 
> for teaching your dog something new, but sometimes that same 
> view gets in the way and slows you down. I'm sure I'm not 
> explaining this well at all.
> >> --
> >> Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
> >> Phone: (814) 860-3194 or 888-75-BUDDY
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> On Aug 30, 2011, at 9:48 PM, Larry D. Keeler wrote:
> >> 
> >>> My neighborhood is very walkable as well.  My mobility 
> is pretty good.  I like working with my Holly for a few 
> reasons.  We can move really fast and not have to worry 
> about bumping into anything.  For instance, I have to 
> transfer busses often.  I try to run to catch the next bus 
> and bump, bump, bump!!  I would have to have a head like a 
> musk ox to survive all of those posts I bump into.  And a 
> 30 foot cane to hit them in time to stop!  I haven't hit 1 
> post with Holly!  Also, Holly is just a great 
> companion!  I forgot, she also will go around those cars 
> who insist on sticking out in stopped traffic and finding those 
> curb cuts quickly.  And she also finds the push button 
> lights and now, the sheltered bus stops! I'm trying to think of 
> a way she can find the bus stops that are not sheltered.
> >>> Intelligence is always claimed but rarely proven!
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