[nagdu] Questions About Guide Dogs

Wed Aug 31 23:03:16 UTC 2011

Hello Buddy, Julie  and all,
Thank you again for answering my questions. It's so wonderful how you all
love your dogs so it makes me think that I'm  losing  something not having a
dog.
I didn't want to upset you using the word "command" instead of "request"
English is my second language. so it's always  a great  job for me to pick a
correct word. Just  like any American who learns other language and sure
they tell you same thing.  I absolutely understand what you are saying when
you say that   dogs have their own individualities and they are not
computers. That's why I'm asking because that is a big decision on getting a
new family member not only a helper.

Tatyana.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Buddy Brannan" <buddy at brannan.name>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2011 10:55 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Questions About Guide Dogs

> There are times when I use a cane, or use a cane and heel my dog, but
> really, it's more than 90% dog by now for me. I remember having the same
> misgivings though. And, really, coordinating six legs and two brains does
> work, and I haven't fallen off a curb or down a flight of stairs yet. Your
> dog will stop at curbs and steps until you find them, and will then
> continue upon your direction to do so. I hesitate to use the word
> "command", because, even though we call them "commands" (forward, left,
> right, and so on), they're really requests. The "Forward" isn't really a
> command, as in, "Forward, let's go, no arguments". Rather, it's "Forward,
> assuming it is safe to go forward". So it's sort of more like a request
> than a command. It's one of the things that separates a guide dog's
> training from lots of other training, the so-called "intelligent
> disobedience". In our work, the dog has a certain amount of autonomy, a
> certain amount of latitude to make decisions that just isn't the case with
> a lot of training where"Sit" really means "Sit".
>
> Yes, it really is a big adjustment, and a lot of adjustments. Not only do
> you have to learn a whole new way to look at landmarks and clues and
> orienting yourself, but you have to learn to give up a little bit of
> control, and to trust. Easy to say, hard to do, and it's something that I,
> certainly, struggle with, especially at first with a new dog. Fortunately,
> dogs are flexible. Also fortunately, the dog is also learning to trust
> you, so it's not all just you adjusting.
> --
> Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
> Phone: (814) 860-3194 or 888-75-BUDDY
>
>
>
> On Aug 30, 2011, at 10:38 PM, Tatyana wrote:
>
>> Do you use a cane and  a dog? A cane for me now is  like a  part of me so
>> I can't think to leave it and have a dog as the only helper. How to deal
>> with curbs and bumps, not stumble?
>>
>>> Hi Larry,
>>>
>>> Yeah, these guys are great in what they can be taught. Given patience,
>>> time, and some training tricks you're likely to learn at guide dog
>>> school and pick up along the way here and elsewhere, a dog's ability to
>>> learn new skills is amazing.
>>>
>>> I do think it's important to discuss the differences in orientation with
>>> a dog versus with a cane. While you will use many of the same skills,
>>> such as finding landmarks and using environmental clues to determine
>>> where you are in space, the landmarks and clues you use with a dog will
>>> of necessity often be very different from the ones you use with a cane.
>>> A cane will give you a lot of tactile landmarks, and you get a very
>>> in-depth idea of your very immediate surroundings. This way, you can
>>> know that you turn into the second driveway after the third mailbox on
>>> your right. Or, you can know that just past the bench at shin level,
>>> there is a trash can, and just past that you'll find a bus stop pole.
>>> These kinds of things aren't as easy to do with a dog. Since your dog
>>> will treat things in your path as obstacles, you can't very well use
>>> them as landmarks, so you have to use other things, such as the change
>>> in acoustics (for instance, are you under an overhanging roof or not),
>>> changing in pavement texture, and the like, not to mention estimating
>>> distances to things. As time goes on, you'll even learn to use things
>>> like your dog's reaction as environmental clues unfamiliar routes.
>>> Strange but true. I think someone said that with a dog, you've got more
>>> of a macro view of your surroundings, where using a cane gives you a
>>> micro view, or a more detailed view. Some people don't care about that,
>>> while others may well feel very lost without all of the very immediate
>>> tactile information one gets from a cane. I say there's a place for
>>> both. Sometimes the close-in tactile world is a great tool for teaching
>>> your dog something new, but sometimes that same view gets in the way and
>>> slows you down. I'm sure I'm not explaining this well at all.
>>> --
>>> Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
>>> Phone: (814) 860-3194 or 888-75-BUDDY
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Aug 30, 2011, at 9:48 PM, Larry D. Keeler wrote:
>>>
>>>> My neighborhood is very walkable as well.  My mobility is pretty good.
>>>> I like working with my Holly for a few reasons.  We can move really
>>>> fast and not have to worry about bumping into anything.  For instance,
>>>> I have to transfer busses often.  I try to run to catch the next bus
>>>> and bump, bump, bump!!  I would have to have a head like a musk ox to
>>>> survive all of those posts I bump into.  And a 30 foot cane to hit them
>>>> in time to stop!  I haven't hit 1 post with Holly!  Also, Holly is just
>>>> a great companion!  I forgot, she also will go around those cars who
>>>> insist on sticking out in stopped traffic and finding those curb cuts
>>>> quickly.  And she also finds the push button lights and now, the
>>>> sheltered bus stops! I'm trying to think of a way she can find the bus
>>>> stops that are not sheltered.
>>>> Intelligence is always claimed but rarely proven!
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>>>
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>>
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