[nagdu] Questions About Guide Dogs

Wed Aug 31 23:58:44 UTC 2011

Well, Shannon, you are right in that you said whatever works for you is what
you should do.
As usual, people will say all sorts of things, if using your cane on the
path is right for you than do you really care what the geniuses at your camp
say?
I went through this a lot, that I'd real be angered, frustrated, bothered,
or hurt by what people said.
After all, I'm sociable and I like people and like interaction with them,
when things are negative therefore it feels bad.  But now I say to myself
"do they own me, they're not in my body, what the Hell do they know".
It is hard but that's the only way to approach it.

However, I can't go along with saying "I love my cane".
In my extremely humble and always perfect opinion--just kidding guys--I
think the cane is a stick.
A tree trunk would do just as good a job.
I am grateful that there is cane training and training that is better than
it ever has been, the same way I'm grateful for computer adaptive software.

I do love my dog though, there is an emotional bond.  There are some people
who can't or don't want to deal with that and I can understand that, of
course, and I respect it.

I use my cane on occasions but I really love using my dog.
I am excited to take a walk with my dog and see his work and interact with
him.  I also feel much freer taking fast walks with my dog than I ever would
with a cane.

Anyway, the point being, I was not bothered by the transition in the
least--smile

Dan the man, Carter the nut

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Shannon L. Dillon
Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2011 7:33 PM
To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Questions About Guide Dogs

Hi Tatyana:
My name is Shannon and I have a German Shepherd guide.  She is my first
guide. I've had her for five years and a few months.  

I wanted to respond to your message because I thought I would have a lot of
difficulty with the transition from cane to dog.  Or, maybe I did have
difficulty with the transition from cane to dog.  I am a good cane user.  I
love my cane, and still love my cane, and I definitely use it in places.  

I think it took a while for me to automatically trust the dog rather than to
want to reach out with my cane and feel.  My automatic response was to want
to use a cane to reach out and feel things.  It took a couple of months
definitely.  I learned the hard way a couple of times.  I was in a place
where I was sure that I knew exactly where the curbs were.  Well, I was a
little farther away from the building than usual, and I told my dog to go
forward, and she wouldn't, letting me know that she thought there was a curb
there and she wouldn't move until I found it with my foot.  And I didn't
believe her.  I don't know what I was thinking, but I dropped her harness
and figured that I would lead her past whatever was causing her not to move.
Well, quite unknown to me, the there was a step there that I didn't know
about because it was in a different part of the path than I usually walked,
and so I tripped down the curb.  I remember it hurting a little. I probably
had heels on because I was walking to work.  I twisted my ankle a little. So
that was a wake-up call that really helped instill in me the need to pay
attention to my dog.  She did her job right.  I just wasn't paying
attention.  So, I don't know how many new users do something quite as dumb,
but it was a good lesson for me.  

I also remember being at a camp like a summer camp, for a networking
weekend, where there were paths among grass, and soem of the paths weren't
that wide.  I had only had my dog for a month, and I was used to working in
regular streets and sidewalks, and in airports and buildings (because of my
job), but I hadn't had very much experience working her in a setting where
there were irregular paths scattered among grass.  I honestly just used my
cane to find the paths and lead my dog.  I got some negative feedback for
doing it, too, from other people at the camp.  They asked if I had gotten a
guide dog for a pet or if I was planning to use it.  

Today, being more experienced, I don't know if I'd do it the same way.  I
haven't been back to the same place so I can't evaluate it.  For a long
time, though, I carried a telescoping cane in my backpack, or my briefcase,
or my purse, and if I felt nervous or frustrated, or if I wanted a landmark
to make me feel better, I used my cane and led the dog.  I don't remember
how often I actually used the cane and led the dog, but I can tell you that
for me, in the beginning, I felt a lot better knowing my cane was somewhere
I could get to it. So you may want to consider that to see if that would
make you feel more comfortable.  Also, the other important thing to know is,
I'm not the only one who does this.  I didn't know that at the time.  I sort
of felt like I must be weird or something.  The truth is, since then, I have
known other people who choose to use their canes in some circumstances and
their dogs in others, and it's really about what works for you.

SHANNON L. DILLON

> From: tagriru at gmail.com
> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
> Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2011 19:02:41 -0400
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Questions About Guide Dogs
> 
> Dear Buddy,
> You are explaining well about macro and micorview. Frankly I can't 
> imagine that I totally rely on a dog and not use my cane. It's 
> something very different and obviously it takes time to retrain brain from
micro to macro.
> I would like to hear stories from somebody who had difficulties with 
> such a transition. And thank you all again.
> Tatyana.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Buddy Brannan" <buddy at brannan.name>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2011 10:00 PM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Questions About Guide Dogs
> 
> 
> > Hi Larry,
> >
> > Yeah, these guys are great in what they can be taught. Given 
> > patience, time, and some training tricks you're likely to learn at 
> > guide dog school and pick up along the way here and elsewhere, a 
> > dog's ability to learn new skills is amazing.
> >
> > I do think it's important to discuss the differences in orientation 
> > with a dog versus with a cane. While you will use many of the same 
> > skills, such as finding landmarks and using environmental clues to 
> > determine where you are in space, the landmarks and clues you use 
> > with a dog will of necessity often be very different from the ones 
> > you use with a cane. A cane will give you a lot of tactile 
> > landmarks, and you get a very in-depth idea of your very immediate 
> > surroundings. This way, you can know that you turn into the second 
> > driveway after the third mailbox on your right. Or, you can know 
> > that just past the bench at shin level, there is a trash can, and 
> > just past that you'll find a bus stop pole. These kinds of things 
> > aren't as easy to do with a dog. Since your dog will treat things in 
> > your path as obstacles, you can't very well use them as landmarks, 
> > so you have to use other things, such as the change in acoustics 
> > (for instance, are you under an overhanging roof or not), changing 
> > in pavement texture, and the like, not to mention estimating 
> > distances to things. As time goes on, you'll even learn to use 
> > things like your dog's reaction as environmental clues unfamiliar 
> > routes. Strange but true. I think someone said that with a dog, 
> > you've got more of a macro view of your surroundings, where using a 
> > cane gives you a micro view, or a more detailed view. Some people 
> > don't care about that, while others may well feel very lost without 
> > all of the very immediate tactile information one gets from a cane. 
> > I say there's a place for both. Sometimes the close-in tactile world is
a great tool for teaching your dog something new, but sometimes that same
view gets in the way and slows you down. I'm sure I'm not explaining this
well at all.
> > --
> > Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
> > Phone: (814) 860-3194 or 888-75-BUDDY
> >
> >
> >
> > On Aug 30, 2011, at 9:48 PM, Larry D. Keeler wrote:
> >
> >> My neighborhood is very walkable as well. My mobility is pretty 
> >> good. I like working with my Holly for a few reasons. We can move 
> >> really fast and not have to worry about bumping into anything. For 
> >> instance, I have to transfer busses often. I try to run to catch 
> >> the next bus and bump, bump, bump!! I would have to have a head 
> >> like a musk ox to survive all of those posts I bump into. And a 30 
> >> foot cane to hit them in time to stop! I haven't hit 1 post with 
> >> Holly! Also, Holly is just a great companion! I forgot, she also 
> >> will go around those cars who insist on sticking out in stopped 
> >> traffic and finding those curb cuts quickly. And she also finds the
push button lights and now, the sheltered bus stops!
> >> I'm trying to think of a way she can find the bus stops that are 
> >> not sheltered.
> >> Intelligence is always claimed but rarely proven!
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