[nagdu] Guide Dogs at School

Tami Kinney tamara.8024 at comcast.net
Fri Dec 9 17:19:21 UTC 2011 

Mark,

Yikes! Talk about compound ignorance. That sort of situation gets really 
impossible to tackle, because the parties involved just pass around the 
ignorance and irresponsibility. Such trivialities as facts and laws 
appear to annoy them to know end and they would rather you didn't bring 
it up. If you do, then whatever it is they have that you need becomes 
leverage for them to punish you for imposing on them... Well, I've done 
a couple of rounds with that sort of nonsense over the past few years, 
and that is how it goes.

At some point, I'm afraid, I have had to decide when it was time to look 
after my own interests... Well, I had also made the mistake of acceding 
to the demanded compromises to show good will and cooperation and just 
act like I was dealing with responsible adults as I do in the rest of my 
life... Now I know better! For the types of people who are more 
interested in making the first move in that sort of power play, they're 
not interested in right and wrong or fair play or common sense or basic 
good manners and decency.

Unfortunately, the laws that protect us from that sort have very few 
teeth. So you can make a full time job of fighting the fight and still 
get nowhere because there is not enforcement... Well, on one of my 
issues, I'm still trying to figure out a way to get to someone who can 
and will do something. But I also have to attend to my own life, which 
is not made easier by the lack of resources I've had to face. The other 
situation is long over, and I have to be happy with having gotten out of 
it with a whole hied. Which is why with our current other dog situation, 
I have a hard time not getting all militant with DD and insisting he 
take a harder line. Still, it's up to him, and I will be interested to 
see how things progress. Is it over because he had a nice talk and came 
to an agreement, even though on their side they are violating the law? 
We'll find out. Will we simply have to put up with more harassment down 
the line? I think probably. How serious it will be, I can't predict. But 
for people who simply want to live their lives and be left alone, this 
is frustrating!

So in your case, the valuable resource is your college education, and 
the value of that goes far beyond the price of tuition. Like the other 
students you infer the the word "us," you do have a tough choice to 
make. This should not be. Legally, it is called duress. For so many 
entities to be involved in the application of this duress on service dog 
users is, well.. Wrong. Criminal! But how do you get it to stop, let 
alone get recourse? Dunno!

Anyway, I'm always thrilled to see the NFB take on legal causes, because 
they *do* have the manpower, resources and knowledge of how to use the 
system and the courts to end discrimination. Every case we win sets 
precedent, so that's great.


So I hope that you are able to get true information where it needs to 
go, to someone who will address the discrimination that appears to 
affect more than you. And so that you can use your guide dog while you 
continue to get that precious education so that you can move on to the 
next stage of your adult life using your fine mind to work and add the 
resources that come from that work to the world.

Good luck!

Tami

On 12/07/2011 10:20 AM, Mark J. Cadigan wrote:
> We all collectively know it is BS, and proceed anyway, that is in my
> opinion the definition of insanity, however it will keep me from getting
> harassed by the SUPD. The school's legal department says it is legal, so
> that is what the police department goes with. If you can get me some
> documentation demonstrating what we all know that it is a violation, I
> can see it gets to people with the power to change this rule, but until
> then, it's something we just have to deal with.
>
>
>
> Sometimes, you got to do what makes your life easier, and let someone
> else fight the battles. Someone with the time and qualifications to do
> it properly.
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marion Gwizdala" <blind411 at verizon.net>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2011 8:26 AM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guide Dogs at School
>
>
>> Mark,
>> Sometime doing something in the interest of harmony creates bigger
>> issues in the long run. For instance, If we present documentation to a
>> restaurant manager who requests it from us, what would happen if
>> someone else, either not possessing the documentation or unwilling to
>> compromise their civil rights, refuses to do so? The end result would
>> be discrimination, so harmony has not been created. I believe the best
>> option is to educate them on the law, not placate their violation of
>> our civil rights. JMHO!
>>
>> Fraternally yours,
>> Marion
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark J. Cadigan" <kramc11 at gmail.com>
>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2011 7:57 AM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guide Dogs at School
>>
>>
>>> So far, I am not having any problems.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I provided them with the documentation requested in the interest of
>>> harmony and good working relations. Even though we all know,
>>> including the office, that it is not worth the paper it is printed on.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marion Gwizdala"
>>> <blind411 at verizon.net>
>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2011 9:59 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guide Dogs at School
>>>
>>>
>>>> Mark,
>>>> There are parts of this policy that seem to be noncompliant with the
>>>> ADA, such as the requirement to present documentation and notify the
>>>> police department. We are working with a DOJ attorney in the Office
>>>> of Civil Rights Education Sector to get better guidance on this
>>>> issue. It seems as if there has been some misinformation
>>>> disseminated to some educational institutions that is causing some
>>>> challenges here.
>>>> As for housing, the Fair Housing Act is the law in effect for campus
>>>> housing. If you have any challenges, please feel free to get in
>>>> touch with me.
>>>>
>>>> Fraternally yours,
>>>> Marion Gwizdala
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark J. Cadigan"
>>>> <kramc11 at gmail.com>
>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
>>>> Users" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2011 8:36 PM
>>>> Subject: [nagdu] Guide Dogs at School
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Due to the recent discussion about reasonable accommodations I
>>>>> thought I would ask the list's thoughts on a recent discussion I
>>>>> have just had with my schools ODS office.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Although I haven't posted on this list in a long time, as many of
>>>>> you may know, I was considering getting a guyed dog. Well, I have
>>>>> finely been accepted, and I will be receiving a dog from Fidelco on
>>>>> January 3. Because I live in the dorms on campus, I informed the
>>>>> Suffolk ODS office about my getting a guide dog. And, hear is a few
>>>>> excerpts from there service dog policy. For the entire policy you
>>>>> can visit http://www.suffolk.edu/studenthandbooks/47571.html.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Requirements of Service Animals and Their Partners
>>>>>
>>>>> Training: To be present on campus, a service animal must be
>>>>> specifically trained to do work or perform tasks for the benefit of
>>>>> an individual with a disability.(no problem so far) Evidence of
>>>>> successful completion of a recognized licensing or certification
>>>>> program for service animals, or a letter documenting the training,
>>>>> is required. (What does that mean?) A copy of the proof of
>>>>> certification should be filed with the Disability Services Office
>>>>> (for CAS and SBS students), the Dean of Students Office (for Law
>>>>> Students) or Human Resources Office (for
>>>>> faculty/staff/administrators). Visitors or guests may be required
>>>>> to provide documentation to the Suffolk University Police Department.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I am not a lawyer, but does that line up with the ADA?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Note - Suffolk University will consider, on a case-by-case basis,
>>>>> requests by students who reside in residence halls for a service
>>>>> animal, including a dog or other animal, to reside in the residence
>>>>> hall. Please direct such requests to the Office of Disability
>>>>> Services at least 30 days prior to the date the animal is expected
>>>>> to be in residence.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> This sounds like they want the authority to refuse acksess to some
>>>>> service animals that don't meet with the ODS stamp of approval.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On a different note, is on campus housing at a college covered
>>>>> under the ADA, or the fare housing acksess act, or some other law I
>>>>> don't know about?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Mark J. Cadigan
>>>>> Electrical Engineering Department
>>>>> Suffolk University
>>>>> kramc11 at gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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