[nagdu] MBTA was Re: beginning to use a cane

Lyn Gwizdak linda.gwizdak at cox.net
Wed Dec 28 00:04:55 UTC 2011


Mark, Not a bad thouoght to have the world go to the dogs! LOL!  They'd be 
too busy sniffing butts to care what else was going on!

Many Labs would be called "food sluts" but I've seen Labs that are total 
vacuum cleaners and other who are not.  I've seen shepherds who snarf stuff 
off the streets and many that do not do this.  None of my Labs developed 
this habit because I never let them do it.  Landon is more dog distracted 
than food distracted although he does love his food.

I find that the dogs that do this alot have owners who just let them do it 
and they are inattentive to their dog's actions and where the dog's head is. 
For the dogs who constantly want to sniff and snarf, the Gentle Leader 
headcollar works wonders!  I don't know if Fidelco uses these or not but 
many guide dog schools are using them.  the dogs don't like them but can 
learn to tolerate them.

If you've never seen a head collar, they are based on the pattern as a horse 
halter.  It controls the head.  Lots of times people think they are a muzzle 
which they are not.  While a dog wears a head collar, it can open its mouth, 
eat and drink with it on.  You use a tugging motion with the leash - never a 
jerk like you do with the regul;ar choke collar.  You can feel what the 
dog's head is doing and you can redirect the dog's actions so it doesn't get 
in the habit of picking up stuff from the streets.

I'd say this problem of picking up stuff is more prevelent in Labs.  Beagles 
are like that as well.  But, most shepherds are serious workers and are very 
focused on their work.  With a shepherd, you have to be a fair but firm 
handler.  You give them an inch, they'll take a mile if they can get away 
with it.  It is important to keep on the dog in the first several months to 
avoid bad habits from developing.

Lyn and Landon
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mark J. Cadigan" <kramc11 at gmail.com>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2011 3:13 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] MBTA was Re: beginning to use a cane


> Lyn
>
>
>
> Then the nation would really be going to the dogs. Lol
>
>
>
> Several of my friends have labs, and they have to constantly keep on top 
> of them so that they don't steal food. I hope the dog I get does not have 
> such a high food drive. What have you dun to address dogs wanting to steal 
> snacks.
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Lyn Gwizdak" <linda.gwizdak at cox.net>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2011 5:55 PM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] MBTA was Re: beginning to use a cane
>
>
>> Hey Mark, maybe one of our dogs should make a great candidate! LOL! 
>> Landon loves everyone and would be a great peacemaker in the world!  Now 
>> wwe won't be busted by the mods.  It is a shame that there are no good 
>> Republicans around anymore.  Unfortunately, the GOP has sucumbed to the 
>> radical right and the moderates have left.  I have worked for several 
>> great Republicans during my life and they were really good people. 
>> Extremes anywhere are nothing but bad news and the results all look the 
>> same - a disaster!  As a progressive-leftist, I sometimes see 
>> obnoxiousness on that end of things as well.
>>
>> The schools I went to were Guide Dog Foundation, Guide Dogs of America, 
>> Eye Dog Foundation, and The Seeing Eye.  I've had German shepherds, 
>> Labradors, and now a Lab/Golden cross.  I like German shepherds but I 
>> found that they were too high strung for my needs as an older person.  I 
>> wouold have worked a shepherd fine when I was your age.  But with 
>> injuries and arthritis, I can't handle the fast pace and hard pull of 
>> most shepherds.  I wouldn't say that I'm a slow walker either - I still 
>> leave some people in the dust!  But two foot surgeries and arthritis 
>> later, I have slowed down a bit from my former pace.  So, because of 
>> this, I have done much better with the Labs or Lab/Golden crosses.  these 
>> are the most used breeds now and they can be matched with a wider variety 
>> of blind person and shepherds seem to be matchable with a smaller grooup 
>> of people - strong, fast, and very mobile!
>>
>> So, you're going to fidelco?  I have a friend who went there back in the 
>> 1990s.  She got nice dogs.  Also, John Byfield was director of Training 
>> there then.  I knew him from Guide Dog Foundation back in the 70s. 
>> Wonderful person and excellent trainer.  Fidelco has all new people there 
>> now from when I visited them in 1998 while in CT visiting my friend.  I 
>> wish you well with the new dog and you get a great match.
>>
>> Take care and Happy New Year - yeah, wish I could visit Boston!  Unlike 
>> Charley, I would return to CA as I've become quite the CA Wuss when it 
>> comes to cold and snow! LOL!
>>
>> Lyn and Landon
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Mark J. Cadigan" <kramc11 at gmail.com>
>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Saturday, December 24, 2011 9:42 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] MBTA was Re: beginning to use a cane
>>
>>
>>> Lyn,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Although this is not a political list, and risking running afoul of the 
>>> moderators, I'd like to state that as someone with fairely concervitive 
>>> leanings, I could not bring myself to vote for Barack Obama. With that 
>>> being said, I am not impressed with the other candidates as well.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> My parents were around back then, although they were conservative as 
>>> well. Instead of joining in the protests, my dad volunteered for the 
>>> army.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> And, to keep this remotely guide dog related, what schools did you 
>>> receive your dogs from, and what breeds of dog did you have most success 
>>> with.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I will be getting a German Shepherd from Fidelco in early January.  I 
>>> don't yet know anything about this dog, but I will keep the list 
>>> informed about my in home placement.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Mark
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> PS Lyn there is a town named after you. Lol. However, the town of Lynn 
>>> has two "N"
>>>
>>> Lynn, Lynn, the city of sin, never get out, same as you went in.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "Lyn Gwizdak" <linda.gwizdak at cox.net>
>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Saturday, December 24, 2011 10:49 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] MBTA was Re: beginning to use a cane
>>>
>>>
>>>> Mark, funny thing I've been working on my autobiography all afternoon 
>>>> and I just left off writing about my high school years - I was 19 when 
>>>> I graduated - in 1970.  Wow! you missed the crazy mid to late 1960s. 
>>>> The Civil Rights riots, the assassinations of both kennedys and MLK. 
>>>> And also the other social change movements like the Womens and Gay 
>>>> movements as wwell as the antiwar activity of the Vietnam War.  I just 
>>>> HATE the conservativism of the Tea Party and the candidates for 
>>>> president.  Go with BArack!  He's the only sane one running so far!
>>>>
>>>> I got my first guide dog in 1973 when I was 22.  I've had eight now 
>>>> with some not working out for one reason or another.  I left Boston in 
>>>> 1988 and have been in San Diego ever since.
>>>>
>>>> Sometimes I wish I wwere that young again, but then again, I'm glad 
>>>> that I'm not.  I had alot of trauma and stress back then and I'm now 
>>>> fairly comfortable in all that I know and where my life is at age 61. 
>>>> I have several really young friends your age and I enjoy them alot.
>>>>
>>>> Take care and Merry Christmas.
>>>>
>>>> Lyn and Landon
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>> From: "Mark J. Cadigan" <kramc11 at gmail.com>
>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Saturday, December 24, 2011 2:35 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] MBTA was Re: beginning to use a cane
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> From my prospective, you are almost old enough to be my grandma lol. 
>>>>> Just kidding. I am almost 20, so the math barely works.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> The T still doesn't run all night; it stops around 12 or so. I don't 
>>>>> tend to be out to late unless I have a purpose EG late night pizza, 
>>>>> because loitering is never a good idea.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't have my dog yet, so it's just me and my cane, but I will have 
>>>>> a dog next semester, because I am getting my dog on January 3.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>> From: "Lyn Gwizdak" <linda.gwizdak at cox.net>
>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Saturday, December 24, 2011 5:17 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] MBTA was Re: beginning to use a cane
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hey Mark, who ya callin' old!! LOL!!  I'm 61 years young and don't 
>>>>>> look too much over 35.  But sometimes the body tells me I'm not 35. 
>>>>>> LOL! Landon has much more grey hair than I have.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> When I lived in Boston, being out on the streets wasn't a very good 
>>>>>> idea - even with a dog.  Besides, the T doesn't run all night - or 
>>>>>> did they change?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Lyn and Landon
>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>> From: "Mark J. Cadigan" <kramc11 at gmail.com>
>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, December 24, 2011 1:22 PM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] MBTA was Re: beginning to use a cane
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I am definitely not that old, however, that song is so heavily 
>>>>>>>entrenched in Boston lore, that even I know it. lol.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If you want croudes and crowds of people, come to Boston. Sometimes, 
>>>>>>> when I go out, at 2 or 3 in the morning, the sidewalks are still 
>>>>>>> crowded. Figure that. And, it's nothing like New York or DC.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>>> From: "Lyn Gwizdak" <linda.gwizdak at cox.net>
>>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
>>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, December 24, 2011 4:14 PM
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] MBTA was Re: beginning to use a cane
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "Charley on the MTA" was a very popular song in the late 1950s or 
>>>>>>>> early 1960s - think it was sung by the Kingston Trio.  So, yeah, 
>>>>>>>> anyone over at least 55 would remember it.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It is amazing how much more crowded the streets in Boston are 
>>>>>>>> compared to San Diego.  Sometimes I really have to look hard for a 
>>>>>>>> crowded place to give Landon crowd practise.  Usually street fairs 
>>>>>>>> work well and sometimes at the Embarcadero when a cruise ship is in 
>>>>>>>> port and it is a wonderful weekend day when the sun shines and the 
>>>>>>>> temps are in the mid 70s during the summer. Most people drive here 
>>>>>>>> and don't walk - or rather it is hard to walk some places because 
>>>>>>>> Southern California is so geared to cars rather than walking, 
>>>>>>>> biking, or puplic transportation.
>>>>>>>> Landon likes the crowds so he isn't bored and has alot to watch out 
>>>>>>>> for than a boring walk in the neighborhoods - except for 
>>>>>>>> Hillcrest - where there's hardly any people on the sidewalks.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Lyn and Landon
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>>>> From: "Mark J. Cadigan" <kramc11 at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog 
>>>>>>>> Users" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2011 9:34 PM
>>>>>>>> Subject: [nagdu] MBTA was Re: beginning to use a cane
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Lol. True.  Funny how so many people from all over the country 
>>>>>>>>> know about this song.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>>>>> From: "Larry D. Keeler" <lkeeler at comcast.net>
>>>>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog 
>>>>>>>>> Users" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2011 4:23 PM
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] beginning to use a cane
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> But, you can get off the thing and not have you're lunch thrown 
>>>>>>>>>> every day!
>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>>>>>> From: "Mark J. Cadigan" <kramc11 at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog 
>>>>>>>>>> Users" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2011 2:36 PM
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] beginning to use a cane
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Not having been around way back then, I wouldn't know, but I 
>>>>>>>>>>> would assume so, but, the T still costs a lot of money. Almost 
>>>>>>>>>>> $7.00 to ride the commuter rail, something similar for the boat, 
>>>>>>>>>>> just under 2 bucks for the subway, busses, Greene line trolley, 
>>>>>>>>>>> and whatnot. Parking at one of the T stations is also quite 
>>>>>>>>>>> expensive. However, parking in the city can run up to $50 a day 
>>>>>>>>>>> depending ware u are parking. At the parking lot next to my 
>>>>>>>>>>> doarm it is $30 a day. Prices around hear are ridiculous.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Pickrell, Rebecca M (TASC)" <REBECCA.PICKRELL at tasc.com>
>>>>>>>>>>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog 
>>>>>>>>>>> Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2011 9:08 AM
>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] beginning to use a cane
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Wasn't fifteen cents a lot of money back then though?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org 
>>>>>>>>>>>> [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Mark J. Cadigan
>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2011 10:46 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Users
>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] beginning to use a cane
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> If only the MTA now the MBTA or to us locals simply the T was 
>>>>>>>>>>>> only 15 cense
>>>>>>>>>>>> like it is in the song. It's up over $1.50 or something like 
>>>>>>>>>>>> that now. It
>>>>>>>>>>>> varies by station and line what they charge. I just lode up my 
>>>>>>>>>>>> "Charley
>>>>>>>>>>>> Card" and refill it when it runs out.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> To keep this on subject, I have always used my cane my entire 
>>>>>>>>>>>> life, and
>>>>>>>>>>>> notice the varying reactions when I have it, and when I don't 
>>>>>>>>>>>> because I put
>>>>>>>>>>>> it down to do something or whatnot. I am still trying to 
>>>>>>>>>>>> convince my dad to
>>>>>>>>>>>> walk around the city with one of my old canes just to observe 
>>>>>>>>>>>> the reactions,
>>>>>>>>>>>> but he refuses. However, he still says that people react to me 
>>>>>>>>>>>> no
>>>>>>>>>>>> differently than they do to him. Somehow I find this hard to 
>>>>>>>>>>>> believe.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Lyn Gwizdak" <linda.gwizdak at cox.net>
>>>>>>>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Users"
>>>>>>>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2011 3:45 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] beginning to use a cane
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yeah, Larry, I did finally return and met Charlie on the MTA 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> as wwell!
>>>>>>>>>>>>> LOL!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I didn't care about the stares either - and yeah, hope folks 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> liked what
>>>>>>>>>>>>> they saw!  Nobody ever asked me for a date, either - sigh.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lyn and Landon
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Larry D. Keeler" <lkeeler at comcast.net>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Users"
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2011 10:46 AM
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] beginning to use a cane
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You just didn't want to use the MTA for fear of never 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> returning! I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> understand your feelings though.  I myself have never really 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cared about
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what everyone else thaught.  Yah, I was always kind of cocky 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that way. I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> remember while attending Northern Michigan University in 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1981, when I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gave my cane to a roommate.  He was really unnerved by 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> everyones stares.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I followed him through the isles and folks thaught I was his 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> keepper!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> When he gave me back my cane, he asked how I could stand all 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the stares.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I told him I usually don't notice them but when I do, I hope 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they like
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what they're seeing!  Especialy the girls!!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Lyn Gwizdak" <linda.gwizdak at cox.net>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Users"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2011 1:14 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [nagdu] beginning to use a cane
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Buddy,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think this is very true in that some folks would rather 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have people
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> think they are drunk rtather than someone seeing that they 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are actually
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> visually impaired or blind.  That is the stigma of blindness 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> talking!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I remember back in the early 1970s when I moved to Boston 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and had to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> travel in an urban envirnment on my own.  Previously to 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that, I was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> always with someone because there was no public 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> transportation at all
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and I rode everywhere in a car.  If I did walk, it was on 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> quiet
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> residential streets going to or coming home from school. 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> There was a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shopping center nearby but on my side of a very busy street 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so I never
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> had to cross that.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In Boston, my friends introduced me to a white cane - I had 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> never seen
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> one before!  The blind people I grew up with never used 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> canes. They
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> went sighted guide with family members.  At that time I 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> could see quite
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> well although I was still legally blind.  I could get around 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pretty well
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> without any travel aids.  But at night, I had NO vision and 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> needed a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cane. Previously, I NEVER went out at night except for 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Halloween where I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> knew the neighborhood very well and next to no car traffic.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> When I started to use a cane, I did feel very self concious 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and that I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stuck out rather than blending in as I did in the past.  I 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> did lose
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> enough vision to force the issue when a car almost ran me 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and my
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> roommate over - her dog did a great traffic check!  I felt 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that I was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> now in more danger without the cane than with it.  With the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cane,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> drivers can see that I had a vision problem.  So, I realized 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that it was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> time to use the cane and it was good.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> AS far as being a bigger target for crime, yeah, this can 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> happen because
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the perp woould know the blind person could never identify 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> them in court
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or to a police officer.  I think we just have to be more 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cautious and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> aware of our surroundings than most sighted people do.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Prior to cane use, people would think I was an idiot if I 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> made a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> crossing error because I couldn't see the signal - days 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> before audible
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> signals, folks!  With the cane, people didn't think this way 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anymore
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> outright. They most likely thought I was now an idiot 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BECAUSE I was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blind! LOL!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think that the time someone needs to start using a cane 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and their
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> resistance to it isn't too unlike when a person has to give 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> up their
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> drivers license.  The driver gives up freedom and mobility. 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the new
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cane user gives up being able to melt into the rest of the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> crowd without
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> something to make him stick out like a sore thumb.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Using a cane is a decision that needs to be made by the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> person and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sometimes a person needs a wake up call when they almost get 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> killed.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But I hope that most people don't wait to get killed before 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> using a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cane!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I did finally do cane travel lessons under blindfold and 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> found it very
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> beneficial to allowing my other senses to give me feedback 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that my eyes
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> couldn't give me.  Although I prefer using a dog, I still do 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> use my cane
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> regularly - especialy when grocery shopping when I have to 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrestle a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cart on and off the bus and the dog gets in the way.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Merry Christmas and Happy Honakka every one!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lyn and Landon
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Buddy Brannan" <buddy at brannan.name>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dog Users"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2011 6:34 AM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Some one stole my cane !
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I can. There are some people out there, believe it or not, 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>who think
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>it's much preferable to be thought drunk, stoned, rude, 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>slow-witted, or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>any number of other things, so long as no one thinks that 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>they are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>blind. After all, if you're blind, you are necessarily less 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>capable,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>less self-reliant, less independent, less able, and (mostly) 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>less of a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>human being than if you are not. Better to be thought 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>sighted and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>[insert any impairing condition] than to be thought of as 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>blind. Much
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>better.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Phone: (814) 860-3194 or 888-75-BUDDY
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Dec 20, 2011, at 8:30 AM, Pickrell, Rebecca M (TASC) 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Can you guys explain?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I wa talking to a guy who has RP. He said people think 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> he's drunk. I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> told him a cane would solve that problem. He told me he 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> doesn't "need
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a cane", which I took to mean he's okay with people 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thinking he's
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wasted.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Can somebody explain. I don't get it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Tami Kinney
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, December 19, 2011 9:02 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dog Users
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Some one stole my cane !
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yeah, I did things kinda that way, too. So long as no one 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> realized I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> using it to compensate for tunnel vision and night 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blindness. Which of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> course, I did not have because I did *not* have Retinitis 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Pigmentosa.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Denial, much, folks? /lol/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tami
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 12/19/2011 04:22 PM, Brenda wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Interesting about using a tree branch. Growing up, we 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> went camping
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> my Dad. The first thing I would do would be find a hiking 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stick. I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> did
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not use it like you would a white cane, but it was still 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> very
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> helpful.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We would hike a lot and my stick would tell me the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> terrain. Thing is,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> would never have been allowed to use it at home since I 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> had 20/200
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> vision. Too bad. Brenda
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 12/19/2011 7:02 PM, Lea williams wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the thing about using a branch is that the branch is 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> heavier. I did
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this once for a couple of weeks when I left my cane over 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at a family
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> house and they took that long to get it back to me. My 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> arm hurt a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lot
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cause a branch is heavier.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It will work, but I would rather use a broom stick or 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> something.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> LOL,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the sight for that one. If you could, you could request 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a free one
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from the NFB, it is strait, so if this is possible, get 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> one of those
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to use as a back up. I rather have a folding one though. 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> small ID one that I use. I love it better than the heavy 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ones.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 12/19/11, Dan Weiner<dcwein at dcwein.cnc.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Just cut a limb from a tree, it will be just as useful 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> average
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cane,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a cane being a stick after all.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dan
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Behalf
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Of Doug Parisian
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, December 19, 2011 5:18 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Guide Dog Users
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Some one stole my cane !
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Perhaps a little better choice of friends and/or 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> acquaintances
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alleviate the problem?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I've had canes run over by cars, tripped over by some 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mental midget
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> other, and even attempted leadings by some unfortunate 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> grabbing my
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stick by
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it's end but never stolen. Must be the company I keep.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Doug: Raising Cain when Able.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Pickrell, Rebecca M 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (TASC)"<REBECCA.PICKRELL at tasc.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Guide Dog
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Users'"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, December 19, 2011 1:53 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Some one stole my cane !
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Maybe the person needed it? I met a family that was 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> new to this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> country, had a member that was blind and wanted to 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> know where to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> get a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cane. I'm not sure they knew what a cane was until 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they saw me
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> using
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mine,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thought "What a cool idea" and came over to talk to 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> me. If I'd had
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> another one on me, I'd have probably given them the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> one I was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> using.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> They were hoping/expecting you could just buy one at 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> any store.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And, why not buy a few backup canes that meet your 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> needs? I treat
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> canes
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> like shoes, I have one I use but I also have a few 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> backups that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> meet my
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> needs, a broken cane serves me no purpose so I don't 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hang onto
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> them,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> just
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as I wouldn't hang onto shoes I couldn't wear. Ditto 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for a cane
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> too long, it'd be like hanging onto shoes that were 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> too small.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Since this seems to happen a fair bit to you, can you 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> keep the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cane
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> say in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> something you hang onto like apurse? Or just keep the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> strap around
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrist so you are in contact with it when it isn't in 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> use?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What happened was wrong, I'm just not feeling the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> outrage the list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> seems
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to be feeling here.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Behalf
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Of Brittney N. Mejico
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2011 6:27 AM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Guide Dog
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Users
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Some one stole my cane !
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That is really awful who would do such a thing. Hope 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you get a new
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cain
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> soon
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: Mardi Hadfield
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, December 16, 2011 12:59 AM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [nagdu] Some one stole my cane !
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi every one, Mardi here. I went Christmas shopping 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the other day
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and some
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> one stole my white cane.I keep it in a leather holster 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> type of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pouch
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> attached to my wheelchair when I am not using it. It 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is quite snug
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fitting
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so it is impossible for it to have fallen out.When I 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> left the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> store and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> headed to the bus station,I reached for it so I could 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> get into the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wheelchair bay when I got on the bus. It was not 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> their! I had it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> when I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> got
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> off the bus so it disappeared somewhere between the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bus station
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> store.The only time I use it when I have my dog with 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> me is getting
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> off the bus.This is the second time someone has stolen 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a cane from
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> me.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is extremely annoying as I can not afford to buy 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> another one until
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> next
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> month.I have an old broken one and a very long NFB 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cane as a back
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> up.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Today
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> when I went out to pay a bill,I had to use the very 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Long NFB cane
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I did
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not take the dog with me in Carla's car.This cane 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> would be fine if
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> were
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> walking but is way to long for use with a 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wheelchair.It also has a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mettle
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tip which gets caught in every crevice and pokes me in 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the face.I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> don't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> know why someone would want to steal a blind person's 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cane???????
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fake
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> service dogs, now fake blind people? What is happening 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> world.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mardi and Shaman
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://wolfsinger-lakota.blogspot.com/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://wolfsinger2-thegoldendragon.blogspot.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account info
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/brittneymejico%40verizon.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> net
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account info
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/rebecca.pickrell%40tasc.c
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> om
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message and any 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> attachments or files
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> transmitted with it (collectively, the "Message") are 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> intended
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> only for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the addressee and may contain information that is 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> privileged,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> proprietary
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and/or prohibited from disclosure by law or contract. 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> intended recipient: (a) please do not read, copy or 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> retransmit the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Message; (b) permanently delete and/or destroy all 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> electronic and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hard
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> copies of the Message; (c) notify us by return email; 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and (d) you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or copying of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Message is strictly prohibited.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your 
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu:
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your 
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu:
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu:
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your 
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/tamara.8024%40comcast.net
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your 
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/rebecca.pickrell%40tasc.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message and any attachments 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or files
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> transmitted with it (collectively, the "Message") are 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> intended only
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for the addressee and may contain information that is 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> privileged,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> proprietary and/or prohibited from disclosure by law or 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> contract. If
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you are not the intended recipient: (a) please do not 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> read, copy or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> retransmit the Message; (b) permanently delete and/or 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> destroy all
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> electronic and hard copies of the Message; (c) notify us 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> by return
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> email; and (d) you are hereby notified that any 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dissemination,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> distribution or copying of the Message is strictly 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> prohibited.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your 
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/buddy%40brannan.name
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/linda.gwizdak%40cox.net
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/linda.gwizdak%40cox.net
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
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>>>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu:
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>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
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>>>>>>>>>>>> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message and any attachments or 
>>>>>>>>>>>> files transmitted with it (collectively, the "Message") are 
>>>>>>>>>>>> intended only for the addressee and may contain information 
>>>>>>>>>>>> that is privileged, proprietary and/or prohibited from 
>>>>>>>>>>>> disclosure by law or contract. If you are not the intended 
>>>>>>>>>>>> recipient: (a) please do not read, copy or retransmit the 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Message; (b) permanently delete and/or destroy all electronic 
>>>>>>>>>>>> and hard copies of the Message; (c) notify us by return email; 
>>>>>>>>>>>> and (d) you are hereby notified that any dissemination, 
>>>>>>>>>>>> distribution or copying of the Message is strictly prohibited.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
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>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
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>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>>>>>>>> for nagdu:
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>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>>>>>>> for nagdu:
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>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>>>>>> for nagdu:
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>>>>>> nagdu:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/kramc11%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
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>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>>>>> nagdu:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/linda.gwizdak%40cox.net
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
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>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>>>> nagdu:
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>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>>> nagdu:
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>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> nagdu:
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>
>
> _______________________________________________
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