[nagdu] MBTA was Re: beginning to use a cane
Mark J. Cadigan
kramc11 at gmail.com
Wed Dec 28 01:18:05 UTC 2011
thanks
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lyn Gwizdak" <linda.gwizdak at cox.net>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2011 7:04 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] MBTA was Re: beginning to use a cane
> Mark, Not a bad thouoght to have the world go to the dogs! LOL! They'd be
> too busy sniffing butts to care what else was going on!
>
> Many Labs would be called "food sluts" but I've seen Labs that are total
> vacuum cleaners and other who are not. I've seen shepherds who snarf
> stuff off the streets and many that do not do this. None of my Labs
> developed this habit because I never let them do it. Landon is more dog
> distracted than food distracted although he does love his food.
>
> I find that the dogs that do this alot have owners who just let them do it
> and they are inattentive to their dog's actions and where the dog's head
> is. For the dogs who constantly want to sniff and snarf, the Gentle Leader
> headcollar works wonders! I don't know if Fidelco uses these or not but
> many guide dog schools are using them. the dogs don't like them but can
> learn to tolerate them.
>
> If you've never seen a head collar, they are based on the pattern as a
> horse halter. It controls the head. Lots of times people think they are
> a muzzle which they are not. While a dog wears a head collar, it can open
> its mouth, eat and drink with it on. You use a tugging motion with the
> leash - never a jerk like you do with the regul;ar choke collar. You can
> feel what the dog's head is doing and you can redirect the dog's actions
> so it doesn't get in the habit of picking up stuff from the streets.
>
> I'd say this problem of picking up stuff is more prevelent in Labs.
> Beagles are like that as well. But, most shepherds are serious workers
> and are very focused on their work. With a shepherd, you have to be a
> fair but firm handler. You give them an inch, they'll take a mile if they
> can get away with it. It is important to keep on the dog in the first
> several months to avoid bad habits from developing.
>
> Lyn and Landon
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mark J. Cadigan" <kramc11 at gmail.com>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2011 3:13 PM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] MBTA was Re: beginning to use a cane
>
>
>> Lyn
>>
>>
>>
>> Then the nation would really be going to the dogs. Lol
>>
>>
>>
>> Several of my friends have labs, and they have to constantly keep on top
>> of them so that they don't steal food. I hope the dog I get does not have
>> such a high food drive. What have you dun to address dogs wanting to
>> steal snacks.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Lyn Gwizdak" <linda.gwizdak at cox.net>
>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2011 5:55 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] MBTA was Re: beginning to use a cane
>>
>>
>>> Hey Mark, maybe one of our dogs should make a great candidate! LOL!
>>> Landon loves everyone and would be a great peacemaker in the world! Now
>>> wwe won't be busted by the mods. It is a shame that there are no good
>>> Republicans around anymore. Unfortunately, the GOP has sucumbed to the
>>> radical right and the moderates have left. I have worked for several
>>> great Republicans during my life and they were really good people.
>>> Extremes anywhere are nothing but bad news and the results all look the
>>> same - a disaster! As a progressive-leftist, I sometimes see
>>> obnoxiousness on that end of things as well.
>>>
>>> The schools I went to were Guide Dog Foundation, Guide Dogs of America,
>>> Eye Dog Foundation, and The Seeing Eye. I've had German shepherds,
>>> Labradors, and now a Lab/Golden cross. I like German shepherds but I
>>> found that they were too high strung for my needs as an older person. I
>>> wouold have worked a shepherd fine when I was your age. But with
>>> injuries and arthritis, I can't handle the fast pace and hard pull of
>>> most shepherds. I wouldn't say that I'm a slow walker either - I still
>>> leave some people in the dust! But two foot surgeries and arthritis
>>> later, I have slowed down a bit from my former pace. So, because of
>>> this, I have done much better with the Labs or Lab/Golden crosses.
>>> these are the most used breeds now and they can be matched with a wider
>>> variety of blind person and shepherds seem to be matchable with a
>>> smaller grooup of people - strong, fast, and very mobile!
>>>
>>> So, you're going to fidelco? I have a friend who went there back in the
>>> 1990s. She got nice dogs. Also, John Byfield was director of Training
>>> there then. I knew him from Guide Dog Foundation back in the 70s.
>>> Wonderful person and excellent trainer. Fidelco has all new people
>>> there now from when I visited them in 1998 while in CT visiting my
>>> friend. I wish you well with the new dog and you get a great match.
>>>
>>> Take care and Happy New Year - yeah, wish I could visit Boston! Unlike
>>> Charley, I would return to CA as I've become quite the CA Wuss when it
>>> comes to cold and snow! LOL!
>>>
>>> Lyn and Landon
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Mark J. Cadigan" <kramc11 at gmail.com>
>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Saturday, December 24, 2011 9:42 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] MBTA was Re: beginning to use a cane
>>>
>>>
>>>> Lyn,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Although this is not a political list, and risking running afoul of the
>>>> moderators, I'd like to state that as someone with fairely concervitive
>>>> leanings, I could not bring myself to vote for Barack Obama. With that
>>>> being said, I am not impressed with the other candidates as well.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> My parents were around back then, although they were conservative as
>>>> well. Instead of joining in the protests, my dad volunteered for the
>>>> army.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> And, to keep this remotely guide dog related, what schools did you
>>>> receive your dogs from, and what breeds of dog did you have most
>>>> success with.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I will be getting a German Shepherd from Fidelco in early January. I
>>>> don't yet know anything about this dog, but I will keep the list
>>>> informed about my in home placement.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Mark
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> PS Lyn there is a town named after you. Lol. However, the town of Lynn
>>>> has two "N"
>>>>
>>>> Lynn, Lynn, the city of sin, never get out, same as you went in.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Lyn Gwizdak" <linda.gwizdak at cox.net>
>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Saturday, December 24, 2011 10:49 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] MBTA was Re: beginning to use a cane
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Mark, funny thing I've been working on my autobiography all afternoon
>>>>> and I just left off writing about my high school years - I was 19 when
>>>>> I graduated - in 1970. Wow! you missed the crazy mid to late 1960s.
>>>>> The Civil Rights riots, the assassinations of both kennedys and MLK.
>>>>> And also the other social change movements like the Womens and Gay
>>>>> movements as wwell as the antiwar activity of the Vietnam War. I just
>>>>> HATE the conservativism of the Tea Party and the candidates for
>>>>> president. Go with BArack! He's the only sane one running so far!
>>>>>
>>>>> I got my first guide dog in 1973 when I was 22. I've had eight now
>>>>> with some not working out for one reason or another. I left Boston in
>>>>> 1988 and have been in San Diego ever since.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sometimes I wish I wwere that young again, but then again, I'm glad
>>>>> that I'm not. I had alot of trauma and stress back then and I'm now
>>>>> fairly comfortable in all that I know and where my life is at age 61.
>>>>> I have several really young friends your age and I enjoy them alot.
>>>>>
>>>>> Take care and Merry Christmas.
>>>>>
>>>>> Lyn and Landon
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Mark J. Cadigan" <kramc11 at gmail.com>
>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Saturday, December 24, 2011 2:35 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] MBTA was Re: beginning to use a cane
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> From my prospective, you are almost old enough to be my grandma lol.
>>>>>> Just kidding. I am almost 20, so the math barely works.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The T still doesn't run all night; it stops around 12 or so. I don't
>>>>>> tend to be out to late unless I have a purpose EG late night pizza,
>>>>>> because loitering is never a good idea.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't have my dog yet, so it's just me and my cane, but I will have
>>>>>> a dog next semester, because I am getting my dog on January 3.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: "Lyn Gwizdak" <linda.gwizdak at cox.net>
>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, December 24, 2011 5:17 PM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] MBTA was Re: beginning to use a cane
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hey Mark, who ya callin' old!! LOL!! I'm 61 years young and don't
>>>>>>> look too much over 35. But sometimes the body tells me I'm not 35.
>>>>>>> LOL! Landon has much more grey hair than I have.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> When I lived in Boston, being out on the streets wasn't a very good
>>>>>>> idea - even with a dog. Besides, the T doesn't run all night - or
>>>>>>> did they change?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Lyn and Landon
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>> From: "Mark J. Cadigan" <kramc11 at gmail.com>
>>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, December 24, 2011 1:22 PM
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] MBTA was Re: beginning to use a cane
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>I am definitely not that old, however, that song is so heavily
>>>>>>>>entrenched in Boston lore, that even I know it. lol.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If you want croudes and crowds of people, come to Boston.
>>>>>>>> Sometimes, when I go out, at 2 or 3 in the morning, the sidewalks
>>>>>>>> are still crowded. Figure that. And, it's nothing like New York or
>>>>>>>> DC.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>> From: "Lyn Gwizdak" <linda.gwizdak at cox.net>
>>>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
>>>>>>>> Users" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, December 24, 2011 4:14 PM
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] MBTA was Re: beginning to use a cane
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "Charley on the MTA" was a very popular song in the late 1950s or
>>>>>>>>> early 1960s - think it was sung by the Kingston Trio. So, yeah,
>>>>>>>>> anyone over at least 55 would remember it.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> It is amazing how much more crowded the streets in Boston are
>>>>>>>>> compared to San Diego. Sometimes I really have to look hard for a
>>>>>>>>> crowded place to give Landon crowd practise. Usually street fairs
>>>>>>>>> work well and sometimes at the Embarcadero when a cruise ship is
>>>>>>>>> in port and it is a wonderful weekend day when the sun shines and
>>>>>>>>> the temps are in the mid 70s during the summer. Most people drive
>>>>>>>>> here and don't walk - or rather it is hard to walk some places
>>>>>>>>> because Southern California is so geared to cars rather than
>>>>>>>>> walking, biking, or puplic transportation.
>>>>>>>>> Landon likes the crowds so he isn't bored and has alot to watch
>>>>>>>>> out for than a boring walk in the neighborhoods - except for
>>>>>>>>> Hillcrest - where there's hardly any people on the sidewalks.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Lyn and Landon
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>> From: "Mark J. Cadigan" <kramc11 at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
>>>>>>>>> Users" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2011 9:34 PM
>>>>>>>>> Subject: [nagdu] MBTA was Re: beginning to use a cane
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Lol. True. Funny how so many people from all over the country
>>>>>>>>>> know about this song.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>> From: "Larry D. Keeler" <lkeeler at comcast.net>
>>>>>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
>>>>>>>>>> Users" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2011 4:23 PM
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] beginning to use a cane
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> But, you can get off the thing and not have you're lunch thrown
>>>>>>>>>>> every day!
>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Mark J. Cadigan" <kramc11 at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
>>>>>>>>>>> Users" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2011 2:36 PM
>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] beginning to use a cane
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Not having been around way back then, I wouldn't know, but I
>>>>>>>>>>>> would assume so, but, the T still costs a lot of money. Almost
>>>>>>>>>>>> $7.00 to ride the commuter rail, something similar for the
>>>>>>>>>>>> boat, just under 2 bucks for the subway, busses, Greene line
>>>>>>>>>>>> trolley, and whatnot. Parking at one of the T stations is also
>>>>>>>>>>>> quite expensive. However, parking in the city can run up to $50
>>>>>>>>>>>> a day depending ware u are parking. At the parking lot next to
>>>>>>>>>>>> my doarm it is $30 a day. Prices around hear are ridiculous.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Pickrell, Rebecca M (TASC)" <REBECCA.PICKRELL at tasc.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
>>>>>>>>>>>> Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2011 9:08 AM
>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] beginning to use a cane
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Wasn't fifteen cents a lot of money back then though?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>> [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Mark J. Cadigan
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2011 10:46 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Users
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] beginning to use a cane
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> If only the MTA now the MBTA or to us locals simply the T was
>>>>>>>>>>>>> only 15 cense
>>>>>>>>>>>>> like it is in the song. It's up over $1.50 or something like
>>>>>>>>>>>>> that now. It
>>>>>>>>>>>>> varies by station and line what they charge. I just lode up my
>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Charley
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Card" and refill it when it runs out.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> To keep this on subject, I have always used my cane my entire
>>>>>>>>>>>>> life, and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> notice the varying reactions when I have it, and when I don't
>>>>>>>>>>>>> because I put
>>>>>>>>>>>>> it down to do something or whatnot. I am still trying to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> convince my dad to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> walk around the city with one of my old canes just to observe
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the reactions,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> but he refuses. However, he still says that people react to me
>>>>>>>>>>>>> no
>>>>>>>>>>>>> differently than they do to him. Somehow I find this hard to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> believe.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Lyn Gwizdak" <linda.gwizdak at cox.net>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Users"
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2011 3:45 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] beginning to use a cane
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yeah, Larry, I did finally return and met Charlie on the MTA
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as wwell!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> LOL!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I didn't care about the stares either - and yeah, hope folks
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> liked what
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they saw! Nobody ever asked me for a date, either - sigh.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lyn and Landon
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Larry D. Keeler" <lkeeler at comcast.net>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Users"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2011 10:46 AM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] beginning to use a cane
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You just didn't want to use the MTA for fear of never
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> returning! I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> understand your feelings though. I myself have never really
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cared about
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what everyone else thaught. Yah, I was always kind of cocky
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that way. I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> remember while attending Northern Michigan University in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1981, when I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gave my cane to a roommate. He was really unnerved by
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> everyones stares.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I followed him through the isles and folks thaught I was his
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> keepper!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> When he gave me back my cane, he asked how I could stand all
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the stares.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I told him I usually don't notice them but when I do, I hope
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they like
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what they're seeing! Especialy the girls!!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Lyn Gwizdak" <linda.gwizdak at cox.net>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dog Users"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2011 1:14 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [nagdu] beginning to use a cane
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Buddy,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think this is very true in that some folks would rather
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have people
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> think they are drunk rtather than someone seeing that they
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are actually
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> visually impaired or blind. That is the stigma of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blindness talking!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I remember back in the early 1970s when I moved to Boston
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and had to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> travel in an urban envirnment on my own. Previously to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that, I was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> always with someone because there was no public
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> transportation at all
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and I rode everywhere in a car. If I did walk, it was on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> quiet
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> residential streets going to or coming home from school.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> There was a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shopping center nearby but on my side of a very busy street
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so I never
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> had to cross that.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In Boston, my friends introduced me to a white cane - I had
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> never seen
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> one before! The blind people I grew up with never used
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> canes. They
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> went sighted guide with family members. At that time I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> could see quite
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> well although I was still legally blind. I could get
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> around pretty well
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> without any travel aids. But at night, I had NO vision and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> needed a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cane. Previously, I NEVER went out at night except for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Halloween where I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> knew the neighborhood very well and next to no car traffic.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> When I started to use a cane, I did feel very self concious
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and that I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stuck out rather than blending in as I did in the past. I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> did lose
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> enough vision to force the issue when a car almost ran me
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and my
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> roommate over - her dog did a great traffic check! I felt
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that I was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> now in more danger without the cane than with it. With the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cane,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> drivers can see that I had a vision problem. So, I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> realized that it was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> time to use the cane and it was good.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> AS far as being a bigger target for crime, yeah, this can
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> happen because
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the perp woould know the blind person could never identify
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> them in court
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or to a police officer. I think we just have to be more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cautious and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> aware of our surroundings than most sighted people do.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Prior to cane use, people would think I was an idiot if I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> made a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> crossing error because I couldn't see the signal - days
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> before audible
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> signals, folks! With the cane, people didn't think this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> way anymore
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> outright. They most likely thought I was now an idiot
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BECAUSE I was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blind! LOL!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think that the time someone needs to start using a cane
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and their
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> resistance to it isn't too unlike when a person has to give
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> up their
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> drivers license. The driver gives up freedom and mobility.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the new
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cane user gives up being able to melt into the rest of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> crowd without
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> something to make him stick out like a sore thumb.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Using a cane is a decision that needs to be made by the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> person and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sometimes a person needs a wake up call when they almost
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> get killed.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But I hope that most people don't wait to get killed before
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> using a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cane!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I did finally do cane travel lessons under blindfold and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> found it very
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> beneficial to allowing my other senses to give me feedback
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that my eyes
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> couldn't give me. Although I prefer using a dog, I still
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> do use my cane
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> regularly - especialy when grocery shopping when I have to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrestle a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cart on and off the bus and the dog gets in the way.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Merry Christmas and Happy Honakka every one!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lyn and Landon
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Buddy Brannan" <buddy at brannan.name>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dog Users"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2011 6:34 AM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Some one stole my cane !
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I can. There are some people out there, believe it or not,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>who think
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>it's much preferable to be thought drunk, stoned, rude,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>slow-witted, or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>any number of other things, so long as no one thinks that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>they are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>blind. After all, if you're blind, you are necessarily less
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>capable,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>less self-reliant, less independent, less able, and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>(mostly) less of a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>human being than if you are not. Better to be thought
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>sighted and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>[insert any impairing condition] than to be thought of as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>blind. Much
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>better.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Phone: (814) 860-3194 or 888-75-BUDDY
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Dec 20, 2011, at 8:30 AM, Pickrell, Rebecca M (TASC)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Can you guys explain?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I wa talking to a guy who has RP. He said people think
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> he's drunk. I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> told him a cane would solve that problem. He told me he
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> doesn't "need
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a cane", which I took to mean he's okay with people
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thinking he's
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wasted.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Can somebody explain. I don't get it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Tami Kinney
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, December 19, 2011 9:02 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dog Users
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Some one stole my cane !
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yeah, I did things kinda that way, too. So long as no one
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> realized I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> using it to compensate for tunnel vision and night
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blindness. Which of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> course, I did not have because I did *not* have Retinitis
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Pigmentosa.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Denial, much, folks? /lol/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tami
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 12/19/2011 04:22 PM, Brenda wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Interesting about using a tree branch. Growing up, we
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> went camping
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> my Dad. The first thing I would do would be find a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hiking stick. I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> did
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not use it like you would a white cane, but it was still
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> very
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> helpful.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We would hike a lot and my stick would tell me the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> terrain. Thing is,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> would never have been allowed to use it at home since I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> had 20/200
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> vision. Too bad. Brenda
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 12/19/2011 7:02 PM, Lea williams wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the thing about using a branch is that the branch is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> heavier. I did
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this once for a couple of weeks when I left my cane
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> over at a family
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> house and they took that long to get it back to me. My
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> arm hurt a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lot
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cause a branch is heavier.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It will work, but I would rather use a broom stick or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> something.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> LOL,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the sight for that one. If you could, you could request
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a free one
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from the NFB, it is strait, so if this is possible, get
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> one of those
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to use as a back up. I rather have a folding one
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> though. I have a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> small ID one that I use. I love it better than the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> heavy ones.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 12/19/11, Dan Weiner<dcwein at dcwein.cnc.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Just cut a limb from a tree, it will be just as useful
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> average
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cane,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a cane being a stick after all.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dan
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Behalf
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Of Doug Parisian
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, December 19, 2011 5:18 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Guide Dog Users
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Some one stole my cane !
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Perhaps a little better choice of friends and/or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> acquaintances
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alleviate the problem?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I've had canes run over by cars, tripped over by some
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mental midget
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> other, and even attempted leadings by some unfortunate
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> grabbing my
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stick by
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it's end but never stolen. Must be the company I keep.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Doug: Raising Cain when Able.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Pickrell, Rebecca M
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (TASC)"<REBECCA.PICKRELL at tasc.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Guide Dog
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Users'"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, December 19, 2011 1:53 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Some one stole my cane !
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Maybe the person needed it? I met a family that was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> new to this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> country, had a member that was blind and wanted to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> know where to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> get a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cane. I'm not sure they knew what a cane was until
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they saw me
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> using
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mine,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thought "What a cool idea" and came over to talk to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> me. If I'd had
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> another one on me, I'd have probably given them the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> one I was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> using.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> They were hoping/expecting you could just buy one at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> any store.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And, why not buy a few backup canes that meet your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> needs? I treat
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> canes
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> like shoes, I have one I use but I also have a few
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> backups that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> meet my
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> needs, a broken cane serves me no purpose so I don't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hang onto
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> them,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> just
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as I wouldn't hang onto shoes I couldn't wear. Ditto
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for a cane
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> too long, it'd be like hanging onto shoes that were
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> too small.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Since this seems to happen a fair bit to you, can you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> keep the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cane
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> say in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> something you hang onto like apurse? Or just keep the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> strap around
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrist so you are in contact with it when it isn't in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> use?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What happened was wrong, I'm just not feeling the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> outrage the list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> seems
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to be feeling here.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Behalf
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Of Brittney N. Mejico
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2011 6:27 AM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Guide Dog
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Users
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Some one stole my cane !
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That is really awful who would do such a thing. Hope
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you get a new
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cain
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> soon
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: Mardi Hadfield
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, December 16, 2011 12:59 AM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [nagdu] Some one stole my cane !
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi every one, Mardi here. I went Christmas shopping
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the other day
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and some
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> one stole my white cane.I keep it in a leather
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> holster type of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pouch
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> attached to my wheelchair when I am not using it. It
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is quite snug
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fitting
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so it is impossible for it to have fallen out.When I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> left the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> store and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> headed to the bus station,I reached for it so I could
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> get into the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wheelchair bay when I got on the bus. It was not
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> their! I had it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> when I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> got
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> off the bus so it disappeared somewhere between the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bus station
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> store.The only time I use it when I have my dog with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> me is getting
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> off the bus.This is the second time someone has
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stolen a cane from
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> me.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is extremely annoying as I can not afford to buy
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> another one until
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> next
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> month.I have an old broken one and a very long NFB
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cane as a back
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> up.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Today
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> when I went out to pay a bill,I had to use the very
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Long NFB cane
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I did
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not take the dog with me in Carla's car.This cane
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> would be fine if
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> were
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> walking but is way to long for use with a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wheelchair.It also has a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mettle
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tip which gets caught in every crevice and pokes me
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in the face.I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> don't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> know why someone would want to steal a blind person's
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cane???????
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fake
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> service dogs, now fake blind people? What is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> happening to this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> world.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mardi and Shaman
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://wolfsinger-lakota.blogspot.com/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://wolfsinger2-thegoldendragon.blogspot.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account info
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/brittneymejico%40verizon.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> net
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/rebecca.pickrell%40tasc.c
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> om
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message and any
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> attachments or files
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> transmitted with it (collectively, the "Message") are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> intended
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> only for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the addressee and may contain information that is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> privileged,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> proprietary
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and/or prohibited from disclosure by law or contract.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> intended recipient: (a) please do not read, copy or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> retransmit the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Message; (b) permanently delete and/or destroy all
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> electronic and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hard
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> copies of the Message; (c) notify us by return email;
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and (d) you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Message is strictly prohibited.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/rebecca.pickrell%40tasc.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message and any attachments
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or files
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> transmitted with it (collectively, the "Message") are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> intended only
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for the addressee and may contain information that is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> privileged,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> proprietary and/or prohibited from disclosure by law or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> contract. If
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you are not the intended recipient: (a) please do not
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> read, copy or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> retransmit the Message; (b) permanently delete and/or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> destroy all
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> electronic and hard copies of the Message; (c) notify us
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> by return
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> email; and (d) you are hereby notified that any
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dissemination,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> distribution or copying of the Message is strictly
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> prohibited.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
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>>>>>>>>>>>>> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message and any attachments or
>>>>>>>>>>>>> files transmitted with it (collectively, the "Message") are
>>>>>>>>>>>>> intended only for the addressee and may contain information
>>>>>>>>>>>>> that is privileged, proprietary and/or prohibited from
>>>>>>>>>>>>> disclosure by law or contract. If you are not the intended
>>>>>>>>>>>>> recipient: (a) please do not read, copy or retransmit the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Message; (b) permanently delete and/or destroy all electronic
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and hard copies of the Message; (c) notify us by return email;
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and (d) you are hereby notified that any dissemination,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> distribution or copying of the Message is strictly prohibited.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
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>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
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>>>>>>>>>> for nagdu:
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>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
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>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
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>>>>>> nagdu:
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>
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>>
>>
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>
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