[nagdu] MBTA was Re: beginning to use a cane
harold leigland
hleigland at bresnan.net
Wed Dec 28 05:26:30 UTC 2011
hi Mark, I would think a gps like trecker breeze senderos or the captain would work for their stops just like it does here for the bus and transit stops. not cheap though. hal
----- Original Message -----
From: Mark J. Cadigan <kramc11 at gmail.com>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Date: Tuesday, Dec 27, 2011 06:33:59 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] MBTA was Re: beginning to use a cane
>
>
> I am in the park street station all the time. I live only about 4 blocks
> from it. I will definitely work my new dog in there. That place is
> constantly under construction and always changing.
>
>
>
> The MBTA has added a bright yellow rumble strip type thing along the sides
> of the pit/tracks on all lines. I think this improves safety for blind and
> sighted alike. Many times I have been talking to someone with there back to
> the tracks, they took a step backwards shifting there wait or whatnot, hit
> the rumble strip, and quickly increased the distance between them and the
> pit.
>
>
>
> One of the things I don't like about the MBTA is the stop announcements are
> often incorrect or missing all together. Any suggestions for keeping track
> of what stop you are at without asking someone or hearing the announcements..
> I will ask someone, if available, however that is not always the case.
>
>
>
> Thank you to all of you who have answered my questions. Also, apologies to
> the moderators for straying a bit off topic.
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Lyn Gwizdak" <linda.gwizdak at cox.net>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing Listeathe National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2011 6:41 PM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] MBTA was Re: beginning to use a cane
>
>
> When I was in Boston in the 80s, parts of Dorchester were coming around with
> a group of gay men buying up the old Victorian homes there. I had the
> occassion to visit one of them and what a fantastic job they did! The fancy
> moulding, stained glass windows in the old doors, and even Victorian
> furniture. And I remember Columbia Point when it was really crappy there.
> the Kennedy Library and the newer UMASS campus has helped fix up that area
> better.
>
> I really liked doing subway work with my dogs when I lived in Boston. My
> dogs even learned which way the train would come from and watch down the
> tunnel from the platform. On the Red, Blue, and Orange Lines, one has to
> make sure the dog doesn't go to near the pit because the third rail is there
> which is electrified. An old friend's dog took her too close to the pit and
> my friend fell off into the pit hitting the third rail which causeed her
> cardiac arrest. She died a couople of days later. It was very hot out that
> day and she passed out from the heat. The Green Line is safer with the
> tracks on level with the platform — or it was that way when I rode it last
> in 2005.
>
> At Seeing Eye, we go to the Morristown train station to practice watching
> out for the pit with the tracks. And we go to Manhattan in NYC and ride the
> subway while in training.
>
> A good place to go train with the Fidelco trainer is the Red Line at Park
> Street Station — under the Green Line part of the station. there is a place
> where you come out onto a central platform with trains arriving on either
> side of this platform.
>
> Lyn and Landon
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mark J. Cadigan" <kramc11 at gmail.com>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing Listeathe National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2011 3:54 AM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] MBTA was Re: beginning to use a cane
>
>
> I went to high school right next to Umass Boston. That part of Dorchester is
> quiet, however, other parts are not so much. It is true about neighborhoods
> having a bad reputation from 40 years ago that still sticks with them. There
> are some nice apartments out on Columbia point. 30 years ago, it was one of
> the worst housing projects in the country. That is probably the part of
> Dorchester you were in. it's now luxury apartments over looking the harbor.
>
>
>
> The land under Umass Boston and Boston College High School was once the town
> dump. It is amazing the transformations cities go threw in just a short
> amount of time.
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "wmodnl wmodnl" <wmodnl at hotmail.com>
> To: <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2011 6:38 AM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] MBTA was Re: beginning to use a cane
>
>
>
> Sounds alot like some parts of Brooklyn or The Bronx, NYC. They are known
> as rough; yet, they have improved over the years. I think Umass Boston is
> actually in that section of the city. IT seams like a quiet section- right
> on the water. Me and my guide flew down those streets- no one was out late
> evening.
>
>
> William O'Donnell,
> Independent Distributer,
> Organo Gold Enterprises INC.
> http://www.willsholistics.organogold.com
>
>
> > From: kramc11 at gmail.com
> > To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
> > Date: Mon, 26 Dec 2011 15:58:05 com0500
> > Subject: Re: [nagdu] MBTA was Re: beginning to use a cane
> >
> > Got to love the dirty dot. Dorchester, is still sort of a ruff area of the
> > city, however I went to high school there. Cambridge, while not
> > technically
> > part of Boston is an interesting place. Lots of fun characters as you
> > said.
> > I like to ride the T out to Kendall Square and go hang out in Cambridge.
> >
> >
> >
> > Quite sad that they got rid of most of the old squares.
> >
> >
> >
> > I am wondering if a dog makes a crime deterrent? Sometimes I have to go to
> > sketchy parts of the city, while I have never had problems; sometimes I am
> > wishing I was driving in a Bradley.
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Dan Weiner" <dcwein at dcwein.cnc.net>
> > To: "'Nagdu Mailing Listeathe National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
> > <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> > Sent: Monday, December 26, 2011 2:10 AM
> > Subject: Re: [nagdu] MBTA was Re: beginning to use a cane
> >
> >
> > > That's very funny, Mark.
> > >
> > > My folks are from Boston, from Dorchester, excuse me
> > > "Dohchesteh0dd-comsmile.
> > > I have many stories of how Floridians misunderstood their accent since I
> > > grew up here in Florida and my folks of course were here having moved
> > > down
> > > in 1962.
> > > .
> > > One time my Mom was explaining that I was born with a problem with my
> > > heart...the Southern lady she was talking to couldn't understand why I
> > > was
> > > born with problems with my hat..."hat", she asked incredulously, , "like
> > > on
> > > your head?"
> > >
> > > I suppose to keep this slightly dog-related, I've been to Boston, but
> > > not
> > > in
> > > the eighteen years I've had guide dogs.
> > > I liked the city when I visited, but that was when I was thirteen in
> > > 1983.
> > > Those of you with keen math minds will figure out by that one sentence
> > > how
> > > old I am-comlol.
> > > I enjoyed Cambridge, there were so many characters around there, I loved
> > > it.
> > >
> > > Dan the man and Carter the nut
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> > > Behalf
> > > Of Mark J. Cadigan
> > > Sent: Sunday, December 25, 2011 11:17 PM
> > > To: NAGDU Mailing Listeathe National Association of Guide Dog Users
> > > Subject: Re: [nagdu] MBTA was Re: beginning to use a cane
> > >
> > > Larry,
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Boston Cream Pie is delicious, however the combat zone is no more. Thank
> > > god. Boston has gentrified out a lot in the past several years. Also,
> > > lots
> > > of suburban kids are moving back to the city displacing lots of blue
> > > collar
> > > workers. Boston doesn't have the feal preserved in books and movies like
> > > the
> > > town. That is the boston of 20 years ago or more. The Boston of when my
> > > parents were my age.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > However, a true Boston accent is something else. Sometimes, to
> > > Midwesterners, I sound like I have the accent; however you have to
> > > listen
> > > to
> > > one of the real old-timers, one of the old shipyard workers, or another
> > > of
> > > the blue collar working boys to really get a feel for the accent.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > In Boston you do not recognize the letter R as a part of the English
> > > language. We only have 25 letters in the alphabet.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > You know you are from Boston if
> > >
> > > You don't think you have an attitude.
> > >
> > > You have no idea what the word compromise means.
> > >
> > > You don't realize that you walk and talk twice as fast as everyone else.
> > >
> > > The words 'Wicked' and 'Good' go together.
> > >
> > > You own a "Yankees Suck" shirt or hat.
> > >
> > > You wear dungaress, not jeans.
> > >
> > > You can't understand why anybody would not like fried clams.
> > >
> > > 4:15pm and pitch black out means there's just 3 more shopping days until
> > > Christmas
> > >
> > > And, on that note, shopping is a contact sport
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Driving rules for boston
> > >
> > > Whenever possible, stop in the middle of a crosswalk to ensure
> > > inconveniencing as many pedestrians as possible. And if a pedestrian
> > > ahead
> > > of you steps in the road, speed up loudly and chase him back up on the
> > > curb.
> > >
> > > Peds have no rights.
> > >
> > > it doesn't surprise you to see someone talking on their cell while
> > > drinking
> > > a coffee and driving with their knees.
> > >
> > > you can't go more than a few blocks without hearing a horn beeped.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Also, what drove me crazy, when I was at BLIND Inc, is I couldn't see a
> > > Dunkin Donuts, ATM or CVS within eyeshot at all times. I can't literally
> > > see
> > >
> > > them, however, you can't go more than a cupple blocks without passing
> > > them,
> > > and sometimes multiples of them.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Larry D. Keeler" <lkeeler at comcast.net>
> > > To: "NAGDU Mailing Listeathe National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> > > <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> > > Sent: Sunday, December 25, 2011 8:16 PM
> > > Subject: Re: [nagdu] MBTA was Re: beginning to use a cane
> > >
> > >
> > >arI just want cream pie and to say that I walked by the Combat Zone! I
> > >arread
> > >ara lot of Robin Cook.
> > >ar ----- Original Message -----
> > >ar From: "Mark J. Cadigan" <kramc11 at gmail.com>
> > >ar To: "NAGDU Mailing Listeathe National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> > >ar <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> > >ar Sent: Saturday, December 24, 2011 4:22 PM
> > >ar Subject: Re: [nagdu] MBTA was Re: beginning to use a cane
> > >ar
> > >ar
> > >>>I am definitely not that old, however, that song is so heavily
> > >>>entrenched
> > >>>in Boston lore, that even I know it. lol.
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> If you want croudes and crowds of people, come to Boston. Sometimes,
> > >>> when
> > >
> > >>> I go out, at 2 or 3 in the morning, the sidewalks are still crowded.
> > >>> Figure that. And, it's nothing like New York or DC.
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> ----- Original Message -----
> > >>> From: "Lyn Gwizdak" <linda.gwizdak at cox.net>
> > >>> To: "NAGDU Mailing Listeathe National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> > >>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> > >>> Sent: Saturday, December 24, 2011 4:14 PM
> > >>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] MBTA was Re: beginning to use a cane
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>> "Charley on the MTA" was a very popular song in the late 1950s or
> > >>>> early
> > >>>> 1960s — think it was sung by the Kingston Trio. So, yeah, anyone over
> > >>>> at least 55 would remember it.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> It is amazing how much more crowded the streets in Boston are
> > >>>> compared
> > >>>> to San Diego. Sometimes I really have to look hard for a crowded
> > >>>> place
> > >>>> to give Landon crowd practise. Usually street fairs work well and
> > >>>> sometimes at the Embarcadero when a cruise ship is in port and it is
> > >>>> a
> > >>>> wonderful weekend day when the sun shines and the temps are in the
> > >>>> mid
> > >>>> 70s during the summer. Most people drive here and don't walk — or
> > >>>> rather
> > >
> > >>>> it is hard to walk some places because Southern California is so
> > >>>> geared
> > >>>> to cars rather than walking, biking, or puplic transportation.
> > >>>> Landon likes the crowds so he isn't bored and has alot to watch out
> > >>>> for
> > >>>> than a boring walk in the neighborhoods — except for Hillcrest —
> > >>>> where
> > >>>> there's hardly any people on the sidewalks.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Lyn and Landon
> > >>>>
> > >>>> ----- Original Message -----
> > >>>> From: "Mark J. Cadigan" <kramc11 at gmail.com>
> > >>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing Listeathe National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> > >>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> > >>>> Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2011 9:34 PM
> > >>>> Subject: [nagdu] MBTA was Re: beginning to use a cane
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> Lol. True. Funny how so many people from all over the country know
> > >>>>> about this song.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> ----- Original Message -----
> > >>>>> From: "Larry D. Keeler" <lkeeler at comcast.net>
> > >>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing Listeathe National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> > >>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> > >>>>> Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2011 4:23 PM
> > >>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] beginning to use a cane
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>> But, you can get off the thing and not have you're lunch thrown
> > >>>>>> every
> > >>>>>> day!
> > >>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
> > >>>>>> From: "Mark J. Cadigan" <kramc11 at gmail.com>
> > >>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing Listeathe National Association of Guide Dog
> > >>>>>> Users"
> > >>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> > >>>>>> Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2011 2:36 PM
> > >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] beginning to use a cane
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> Not having been around way back then, I wouldn't know, but I would
> > >>>>>>> assume so, but, the T still costs a lot of money. Almost $7.00 to
> > >>>>>>> ride the commuter rail, something similar for the boat, just under
> > >>>>>>> 2
> > >>>>>>> bucks for the subway, busses, Greene line trolley, and whatnot.
> > >>>>>>> Parking at one of the T stations is also quite expensive. However,
> > >>>>>>> parking in the city can run up to $50 a day depending ware u are
> > >>>>>>> parking. At the parking lot next to my doarm it is $30 a day.
> > >>>>>>> Prices
> > >>>>>>> around hear are ridiculous.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
> > >>>>>>> From: "Pickrell, Rebecca M (TASC)" <REBECCA.PICKRELL at tasc.com>
> > >>>>>>> To: "'Nagdu Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
> > >>>>>>> Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> > >>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2011 9:08 AM
> > >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] beginning to use a cane
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> Wasn't fifteen cents a lot of money back then though?
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
> > >>>>>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org]
> > >>>>>>>> On
> > >>>>>>>> Behalf Of Mark J. Cadigan
> > >>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2011 10:46 PM
> > >>>>>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
> > >>>>>>>> Users
> > >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] beginning to use a cane
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> If only the MTA now the MBTA or to us locals simply the T was
> > >>>>>>>> only
> > >>>>>>>> 15 cense
> > >>>>>>>> like it is in the song. It's up over $1.50 or something like that
> > >>>>>>>> now. It
> > >>>>>>>> varies by station and line what they charge. I just lode up my
> > >>>>>>>> "Charley
> > >>>>>>>> Card" and refill it when it runs out.
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> To keep this on subject, I have always used my cane my entire
> > >>>>>>>> life,
> > >>>>>>>> and
> > >>>>>>>> notice the varying reactions when I have it, and when I don't
> > >>>>>>>> because I put
> > >>>>>>>> it down to do something or whatnot. I am still trying to convince
> > >>>>>>>> my
> > >
> > >>>>>>>> dad to
> > >>>>>>>> walk around the city with one of my old canes just to observe the
> > >>>>>>>> reactions,
> > >>>>>>>> but he refuses. However, he still says that people react to me no
> > >>>>>>>> differently than they do to him. Somehow I find this hard to
> > >>>>>>>> believe.
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
> > >>>>>>>> From: "Lyn Gwizdak" <linda.gwizdak at cox.net>
> > >>>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing Listeathe National Association of Guide Dog
> > >>>>>>>> Users"
> > >>>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> > >>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2011 3:45 PM
> > >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] beginning to use a cane
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> Yeah, Larry, I did finally return and met Charlie on the MTA as
> > >>>>>>>>> wwell!
> > >>>>>>>>> LOL!
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> I didn't care about the stares either — and yeah, hope folks
> > >>>>>>>>> liked
> > >>>>>>>>> what
> > >>>>>>>>> they saw! Nobody ever asked me for a date, either — sigh.
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> Lyn and Landon
> > >>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
> > >>>>>>>>> From: "Larry D. Keeler" <lkeeler at comcast.net>
> > >>>>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing Listeathe National Association of Guide Dog
> > >>>>>>>>> Users"
> > >>>>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> > >>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2011 10:46 AM
> > >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] beginning to use a cane
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> You just didn't want to use the MTA for fear of never
> > >>>>>>>>>> returning!
> > >>>>>>>>>> I
> > >>>>>>>>>> understand your feelings though. I myself have never really
> > >>>>>>>>>> cared
> > >
> > >>>>>>>>>> about
> > >>>>>>>>>> what everyone else thaught. Yah, I was always kind of cocky
> > >>>>>>>>>> that
> > >>>>>>>>>> way. I
> > >>>>>>>>>> remember while attending Northern Michigan University in 1981,
> > >>>>>>>>>> when I
> > >>>>>>>>>> gave my cane to a roommate. He was really unnerved by everyones
> > >>>>>>>>>> stares.
> > >>>>>>>>>> I followed him through the isles and folks thaught I was his
> > >>>>>>>>>> keepper!
> > >>>>>>>>>> When he gave me back my cane, he asked how I could stand all
> > >>>>>>>>>> the
> > >>>>>>>>>> stares.
> > >>>>>>>>>> I told him I usually don't notice them but when I do, I hope
> > >>>>>>>>>> they
> > >>>>>>>>>> like
> > >>>>>>>>>> what they're seeing! Especialy the girls!!
> > >>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
> > >>>>>>>>>> From: "Lyn Gwizdak" <linda.gwizdak at cox.net>
> > >>>>>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing Listeathe National Association of Guide Dog
> > >>>>>>>>>> Users"
> > >>>>>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> > >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2011 1:14 PM
> > >>>>>>>>>> Subject: [nagdu] beginning to use a cane
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>> Buddy,
> > >>>>>>>>>>> I think this is very true in that some folks would rather have
> > >>>>>>>>>>> people
> > >>>>>>>>>>> think they are drunk rtather than someone seeing that they are
> > >>>>>>>>>>> actually
> > >>>>>>>>>>> visually impaired or blind. That is the stigma of blindness
> > >>>>>>>>>>> talking!
> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>> I remember back in the early 1970s when I moved to Boston and
> > >>>>>>>>>>> had
> > >
> > >>>>>>>>>>> to
> > >>>>>>>>>>> travel in an urban envirnment on my own. Previously to that, I
> > >>>>>>>>>>> was
> > >>>>>>>>>>> always with someone because there was no public transportation
> > >>>>>>>>>>> at
> > >
> > >>>>>>>>>>> all
> > >>>>>>>>>>> and I rode everywhere in a car. If I did walk, it was on quiet
> > >>>>>>>>>>> residential streets going to or coming home from school. There
> > >>>>>>>>>>> was a
> > >>>>>>>>>>> shopping center nearby but on my side of a very busy street so
> > >>>>>>>>>>> I
> > >>>>>>>>>>> never
> > >>>>>>>>>>> had to cross that.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>> In Boston, my friends introduced me to a white cane — I had
> > >>>>>>>>>>> never
> > >
> > >>>>>>>>>>> seen
> > >>>>>>>>>>> one before! The blind people I grew up with never used canes.
> > >>>>>>>>>>> They
> > >>>>>>>>>>> went sighted guide with family members. At that time I could
> > >>>>>>>>>>> see
> > >
> > >>>>>>>>>>> quite
> > >>>>>>>>>>> well although I was still legally blind. I could get around
> > >>>>>>>>>>> pretty well
> > >>>>>>>>>>> without any travel aids. But at night, I had NO vision and
> > >>>>>>>>>>> needed a
> > >>>>>>>>>>> cane. Previously, I NEVER went out at night except for
> > >>>>>>>>>>> Halloween
> > >>>>>>>>>>> where I
> > >>>>>>>>>>> knew the neighborhood very well and next to no car traffic.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>> When I started to use a cane, I did feel very self concious
> > >>>>>>>>>>> and
> > >>>>>>>>>>> that I
> > >>>>>>>>>>> stuck out rather than blending in as I did in the past. I did
> > >>>>>>>>>>> lose
> > >>>>>>>>>>> enough vision to force the issue when a car almost ran me and
> > >>>>>>>>>>> my
> > >>>>>>>>>>> roommate over — her dog did a great traffic check! I felt that
> > >>>>>>>>>>> I
> > >
> > >>>>>>>>>>> was
> > >>>>>>>>>>> now in more danger without the cane than with it. With the
> > >>>>>>>>>>> cane,
> > >>>>>>>>>>> drivers can see that I had a vision problem. So, I realized
> > >>>>>>>>>>> that
> > >
> > >>>>>>>>>>> it was
> > >>>>>>>>>>> time to use the cane and it was good.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>> AS far as being a bigger target for crime, yeah, this can
> > >>>>>>>>>>> happen
> > >>>>>>>>>>> because
> > >>>>>>>>>>> the perp woould know the blind person could never identify
> > >>>>>>>>>>> them
> > >>>>>>>>>>> in court
> > >>>>>>>>>>> or to a police officer. I think we just have to be more
> > >>>>>>>>>>> cautious
> > >
> > >>>>>>>>>>> and
> > >>>>>>>>>>> aware of our surroundings than most sighted people do.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>> Prior to cane use, people would think I was an idiot if I made
> > >>>>>>>>>>> a
> > >>>>>>>>>>> crossing error because I couldn't see the signal — days before
> > >>>>>>>>>>> audible
> > >>>>>>>>>>> signals, folks! With the cane, people didn't think this way
> > >>>>>>>>>>> anymore
> > >>>>>>>>>>> outright. They most likely thought I was now an idiot BECAUSE
> > >>>>>>>>>>> I
> > >>>>>>>>>>> was
> > >>>>>>>>>>> blind! LOL!
> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>> I think that the time someone needs to start using a cane and
> > >>>>>>>>>>> their
> > >>>>>>>>>>> resistance to it isn't too unlike when a person has to give up
> > >>>>>>>>>>> their
> > >>>>>>>>>>> drivers license. The driver gives up freedom and mobility. the
> > >>>>>>>>>>> new
> > >>>>>>>>>>> cane user gives up being able to melt into the rest of the
> > >>>>>>>>>>> crowd
> > >>>>>>>>>>> without
> > >>>>>>>>>>> something to make him stick out like a sore thumb.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>> Using a cane is a decision that needs to be made by the person
> > >>>>>>>>>>> and
> > >>>>>>>>>>> sometimes a person needs a wake up call when they almost get
> > >>>>>>>>>>> killed.
> > >>>>>>>>>>> But I hope that most people don't wait to get killed before
> > >>>>>>>>>>> using
> > >
> > >>>>>>>>>>> a
> > >>>>>>>>>>> cane!
> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>> I did finally do cane travel lessons under blindfold and found
> > >>>>>>>>>>> it
> > >
> > >>>>>>>>>>> very
> > >>>>>>>>>>> beneficial to allowing my other senses to give me feedback
> > >>>>>>>>>>> that
> > >>>>>>>>>>> my eyes
> > >>>>>>>>>>> couldn't give me. Although I prefer using a dog, I still do
> > >>>>>>>>>>> use
> > >>>>>>>>>>> my cane
> > >>>>>>>>>>> regularly — especialy when grocery shopping when I have to
> > >>>>>>>>>>> wrestle a
> > >>>>>>>>>>> cart on and off the bus and the dog gets in the way.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>> Merry Christmas and Happy Honakka every one!
> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>> Lyn and Landon
> > >>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
> > >>>>>>>>>>> From: "Buddy Brannan" <buddy at brannan.name>
> > >>>>>>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing Listeathe National Association of Guide Dog
> > >>>>>>>>>>> Users"
> > >>>>>>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> > >>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2011 6:34 AM
> > >>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Some one stole my cane !
> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>I can. There are some people out there, believe it or not, who
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>think
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>it's much preferable to be thought drunk, stoned, rude,
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>slow-witted, or
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>any number of other things, so long as no one thinks that they
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>are
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>blind. After all, if you're blind, you are necessarily less
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>capable,
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>_so self-reliant, less independent, less able, and (mostly)
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>_so
> > >
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>of a
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>human being than if you are not. Better to be thought sighted
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>and
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>[insert any impairing condition] than to be thought of as
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>blind.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>Much
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>better.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> --
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV — Erie, PA
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Phone: (814) 860-3194 or 888-75-BUDDY
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> On Dec 20, 2011, at 8:30 AM, Pickrell, Rebecca M (TASC)
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Can you guys explain?
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> I wa talking to a guy who has RP. He said people think he's
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> drunk. I
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> told him a cane would solve that problem. He told me he
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> doesn't
> > >
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> "need
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> a cane", which I took to mean he's okay with people thinking
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> he's
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> wasted.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Can somebody explain. I don't get it.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Tami Kinney
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, December 19, 2011 9:02 PM
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Dog
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Users
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Some one stole my cane !
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Yeah, I did things kinda that way, too. So long as no one
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> realized I
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> was
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> using it to compensate for tunnel vision and night
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> blindness.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Which of
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> course, I did not have because I did ininn* have Retinitis
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Pigmentosa.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Denial, much, folks? /lol/
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Tami
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 12/19/2011 04:22 PM, Brenda wrote:
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Interesting about using a tree branch. Growing up, we went
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> camping
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> with
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> my Dad. The first thing I would do would be find a hiking
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> stick. I
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> did
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> not use it like you would a white cane, but it was still
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> very
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> helpful.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> We would hike a lot and my stick would tell me the terrain.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thing is,
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> would never have been allowed to use it at home since I had
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 20/200
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> vision. Too bad. Brenda
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 12/19/2011 7:02 PM, Lea williams wrote:
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the thing about using a branch is that the branch is
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> heavier.
> > >
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I did
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this once for a couple of weeks when I left my cane over
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
> > >
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> family
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> house and they took that long to get it back to me. My arm
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hurt a
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lot
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cause a branch is heavier.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It will work, but I would rather use a broom stick or
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> something.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> LOL,
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the sight for that one. If you could, you could request a
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> free one
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from the NFB, it is strait, so if this is possible, get
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> one
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of those
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to use as a back up. I rather have a folding one though. I
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have a
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> small ID one that I use. I love it better than the heavy
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ones.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 12/19/11, Dan Weiner<dcwein at dcwein.cnc.net> wrote:
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Just cut a limb from a tree, it will be just as useful as
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> average
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cane,
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a cane being a stick after all.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dan
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Behalf
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Of Doug Parisian
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, December 19, 2011 5:18 PM
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing Listeathe National Association of Guide
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dog
> > >
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Users
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Some one stole my cane !
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Perhaps a little better choice of friends and/or
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> acquaintances
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> would
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alleviate the problem?
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I've had canes run over by cars, tripped over by some
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mental
> > >
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> midget
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> other, and even attempted leadings by some unfortunate
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> grabbing my
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stick by
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it's end but never stolen. Must be the company I keep.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Doug: Raising Cain when Able.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Pickrell, Rebecca M
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (TASC)"<REBECCA.PICKRELL at tasc.com>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: "'Nagdu Mailing List, the National Association of
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Guide
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dog
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Users'"
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, December 19, 2011 1:53 PM
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Some one stole my cane !
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Maybe the person needed it? I met a family that was new
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> country, had a member that was blind and wanted to know
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> where to
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> get a
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cane. I'm not sure they knew what a cane was until they
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> saw
> > >
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> me
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> using
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mine,
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thought "What a cool idea" and came over to talk to me.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd had
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> another one on me, I'd have probably given them the one
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> using.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> They were hoping/expecting you could just buy one at any
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> store.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And, why not buy a few backup canes that meet your
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> needs?
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I
> > >
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> treat
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> canes
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> like shoes, I have one I use but I also have a few
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> backups
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> meet my
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> needs, a broken cane serves me no purpose so I don't
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hang
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> onto
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> them,
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> just
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as I wouldn't hang onto shoes I couldn't wear. Ditto for
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cane
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that is
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> too long, it'd be like hanging onto shoes that were too
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> small.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Since this seems to happen a fair bit to you, can you
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> keep
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cane
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> say in
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> something you hang onto like apurse? Or just keep the
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> strap
> > >
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> around
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> your
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrist so you are in contact with it when it isn't in
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> use?
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What happened was wrong, I'm just not feeling the
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> outrage
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the list
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> seems
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to be feeling here.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org]
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Behalf
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Of Brittney N. Mejico
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2011 6:27 AM
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Guide
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dog
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Users
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Some one stole my cane !
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That is really awful who would do such a thing. Hope you
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> get a new
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cain
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> soon
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: Mardi Hadfield
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, December 16, 2011 12:59 AM
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [nagdu] Some one stole my cane !
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi every one, Mardi here. I went Christmas shopping the
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> other day
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and some
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> one stole my white cane.I keep it in a leather holster
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> type
> > >
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pouch
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> attached to my wheelchair when I am not using it. It is
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> quite snug
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fitting
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so it is impossible for it to have fallen ou.When I
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> left
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> store and
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> headed to the bus stNeaI reached for it so I could
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> get
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> into the
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wheelchair bay when I got on the bus. It was not their!
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> had it
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> when I
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> got
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> off the bus so it disappeared somewhere between the bus
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> station
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and the
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> store.The only time I use it when I have my dog with me
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> getting
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on or
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> off the bus.This is the second time someone has stolen a
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cane from
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> me.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is extremely annoying as I can not afford to buy another
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> one until
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> next
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> month.I have an old broken one and a very long NFB cane
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a back
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> up.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Today
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> when I went out to pay a billeaI had to use the very Long
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> NFB cane
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I did
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not take the dog with me in Carla's car.This cane would
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fine if
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> were
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> walking but is way to long for use with a wheelchair.It
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> also has a
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mettle
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tip which gets caught in every crevice and pokes me in
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> face.I
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> don't
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> know why someone would want to steal a blind person's
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cane???????
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fake
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> service dogs, now fake blind people? What is happening
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> world.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mardi and Shaman
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://wolfsinger-lakota.blogspot.com/
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://wolfsinger2-thegoldendragon.blogspot.com
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account info
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu:
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/brittneymejico%40verizon.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> net
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account info
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu:
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/rebecca.pickrell%40tasc.c
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> om
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message and any attachments
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or
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> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> files
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> transmitted with it (collectively, the "Message") are
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> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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> > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/leanicole1988%40gmail.com
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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> > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/rebecca.pickrell%40tasc.c
> > > om
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message and any attachments or
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> files
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> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
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> > > om
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