[nagdu] The Seeing Eye & Ownership

Wed Feb 2 04:42:34 UTC 2011

Seeing Eye will call a first time student after they have been home for a 
couple weeks to see how things are going, or last I heard they did.  If you 
are a returning grad they do not call to see how things are going.  However, 
when I have had a problem with any of my dogs, an instructor has called me 
back within 24 hours to discuss things or sent someone out within a week of 
my phone call.  I don't know how to campare this with other schools because 
I've only worked with Se.

-----Original Message----- 
From: Cindy Ray
Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2011 9:17 AM
To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] The Seeing Eye & Ownership

I had had the dog for two years. I sort of assumed that I could keep him and 
sent  him back for the same reason--to see if he could be worked with 
someone else, which I think ultimately happened. The ones I had shorter, I 
think I could have gone ahead and kept if I felt like it. I had them both 
less than a year so figured that for an adjustment which wasn't costing me, 
the dogs should go back. I was not certain I could have kept either of them 
and still not paid the fee, I was never notified of what became of either of 
them without asking, and I was not offered the option of keeping either as a 
pet, or having them back as pets. I think that I found someone who was able 
to get me the information about the second one, but the information was not 
readily granted with any of them. I think this was more an oversight than a 
policy.

On Feb 1, 2011, at 5:11 AM, Marion Gwizdala wrote:

> Dear All,
>   Let me begin by saying I am not a seeing Eye consumer. It is my opinion 
> that The Seeing Eye has it right, as it relates to ownership. In short, 
> TSE believes that the dog belongs to the consumer and it is the consumer's 
> right to make all decisions as it pertains to the dog. This includes both 
> early and end-of-work retirement,even after the consumer makes the 
> difficult choice to surrender the dog, as illustrated by Peggy's 
> experience.
>   One untruth Mr. Russman stated during our telephone conversation, when I 
> asserted that TSE grants full ownership upon completion of training, was 
> that TSE does not offer any sort of follow-up. I told him I knew too many 
> TSE consumers and that he was absolutely wrong. Then he qualified his 
> statement by saying something like, "Well, not to the level of Fidelco!" 
> If, by that he means the type of follow-up in which they call and say, "I 
> am five minutes from your house and I am coming over to see your dog!", he 
> is right! I feel no guide dog program should impose themselves upon their 
> consumers. Such tactics are very intimidating and paternalistic!
>
> Fraternally yours,
> Marion Gwizdala
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peggy" <pshald at neb.rr.com>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Monday, January 31, 2011 11:38 PM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guide Dog Handler Bill of Rights
>
>
>> With Se, once you leave the school with that dog it's yours to do what 
>> you wish with, hopefully work it.  But when it retires, no matter when 
>> that is, you can choose to keep him/her or give him/her to a friend or 
>> family, or send him/her back to SE.  When I gave up my first dog, a 
>> yellow lab, that was having some definate anxiety issues, I had only 
>> worked her for a year and a half ... I could have kept her, given her to 
>> someone ... what I chose to do was send her back to SE to see if they 
>> could work with her and maybe she could continue guide dog work.  She did 
>> retire and they notified me that she could not be retrained and even 
>> asked if I wanted her back as a pet. Just thought I'd share because I saw 
>> at the end of the post you said you weren't sure if after a short time 
>> they'd still let you keep the dog ... at least I thought that's what you 
>> meant.
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message----- From: Cindy Ray
>> Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2011 4:00 PM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guide Dog Handler Bill of Rights
>>
>> If you get a dog at TSE and within the first year you find that the dog 
>> is not working out for you, they will replace it and apply the fee to the 
>> next dog and call it an adjustment. In such a case, it would be only 
>> right for you to return the dog to them. Jordan's is the only story I 
>> have ever heard of a repossession, and I suspect there is more to the 
>> story that we don't know and probably don't have a right to know, but it 
>> seems like aserioius allegation given that this is not their policy and 
>> the dog is yours upon leaving the school. To say they don't care is 
>> really what you perceive, many of the rest of us do not see that. When I 
>> hae not been able to continue with a dog (and I two such within a year's 
>> period that had to return) I would never have found the dog a home but, 
>> rather, would hve wanted to return it there for their evaluation. The two 
>> with which I experienced it were retired, far as I know, and the one I 
>> had for two years and returned, I did because I thought he might be a 
>> better fit for someone else. I think I could have given him away if I had 
>> wanted to. Never tested out this theory.
>>
>>
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>>
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>> If you pee on them they go away
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>
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Friends are like a snow flake.
If you pee on them they go away