[nagdu] Access problems in San Diego

Tamara Smith-Kinney tamara.8024 at comcast.net
Wed Jan 12 23:01:01 UTC 2011


Ann and Doug,

I, too, have found that simply not having time to stop for some fool who
wants to break the law is my best first course of action.  Smile and waft
right in like everything is as it should be.  Smile and ask questions and
expect service.  If there are other customers, speak a bit more loudly than
normal to make sure everyone hears your polite, icky sweet tone of courtesy
and respect in dealing with a surly shop owner!  Smile like the wind!  /lol/

So I wonder these days about physical attempts to bar access...  Not that
I've had one, but there's no guarantee it won't happen one of these days.
Only now, in the U.S., assault on a disabled person is a hate crime under
federal law.  Ain't that a hoot?

I'm not prepared to go out and get myself beat up to test how this would
work if someone were to assault me in the course of an access denial.  But
it could come in handy as a tool to get federal involvement for those times
when the local and state authorities just can't be bothered with some petty
whining by the likes of one of us.

Getting video if you can manage it to create publicity -- or even perhaps to
spark a news story -- could also be a great tool for great public education
and communication.  /grin/

Good luck, Lyn!  Sorry you're having to put up with the crud.

Tami Smith-Kinney

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Doug Parisian
Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2011 12:45 PM
To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Access problems in San Diego

Ann, I love your style!  I'd only make a couple of observations.  In some 
jurisdictions, physical attempts at removal by the business owner may well 
be considered a physical assult, especially if the person beinfg denied 
themselves is not in any way physically aggressive.

Secondly, I might be tempted, either with other service animall teams or 
not, to take a device which includes a camera and take a picture.  I'm sure 
the utube crowd might have something to say to and about the business and 
their attitudes.

Doug: fight fire with a bomb!
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ann Edie" <annedie at nycap.rr.com>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2011 2:53 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Access problems in San Diego


> Hi, Lyn,
>
> Speaking from my personal experience, if the local police will not put in 
> an appearance to let the business owner know that they are required under 
> the ADA to allow a person with a disability access to their business 
> accompanied by their service animal, then you have several options for 
> getting the problem solved:
>
> You can file a complaint with the US Department of Justice which is 
> charged with implementing this part of the ADA.  Or, you can file a 
> complaint with your state's Human Rights Division which will eventually 
> hold a hearing to establish the facts of the case and then issue a ruling 
> as to whether discrimination did occur, and then help mediate some remedy.

> Both of these methods take a lot of time to get results.  And either 
> organization may decide that your little complaint will not deliver enough

> bang for the buck, so to speak, and that they cannot spend their very 
> limited resources on such a little case.
>
> So you may decide to take more direct and personal action:  that is, take 
> a couple of guide dog user friends with you for moral support and go to 
> the business and enter the business and proceed as usual, with the 
> expectation of receiving the same polite and considerate service as any 
> other members of the public.  If the business owner shouts "No dogs!", 
> attempt to politely inform him/her of your rights under the ADA (if he/she

> is able to listen and able to understand.)  If the business owner is not 
> physically pushing you out the door or blocking your passage into the 
> store, then I would continue to enter and see if the business owner will 
> serve you despite their protestations about the dog(s).  This tactic has 
> worked for me in some cases--I just pretend I didn't understand what they 
> are saying about the dog, like I can't understand their attempt at 
> speaking English, or maybe my disability includes deafness, or maybe I 
> have a cognitive impairment or something--but I just keep walking and keep

> smiling, and sometimes they just decide that it is easier to serve me and 
> get it over with rather than continuing to cause a scene by resisting.
>
> If you get in and they ignore you or refuse to serve you, then you can 
> call the police and see if the mere appearance of the police, or the 
> threat of their appearance, will be enough to cause the business owner to 
> give in.  If the business is one which has any traffic at all, then the 
> sight of several citizens with disabilities and their service animals 
> standing in the entrance and the business owner trying to refuse them 
> service will surely be bad for business and cause the business owner to 
> think twice about persisting.  If the police do arrive and refuse to 
> enforce the law, and I'm sure that California has State laws which 
> parallel the provisions of the ADA, then you can choose to leave 
> peacefully, or you can choose to stay.  If you choose not to leave the 
> business, perhaps the police will arrest you and your friends for 
> disturbing the peace or something, which will give you a date in court and

> a platform for gaining the attention of the local press and the justice 
> system.
>
> If you're up for a good fight, you could inform the local TV/media press 
> of the denial of access, and you could arrange to have press coverage of 
> another attempt by you and your friends to gain entry and service at the 
> business.  Usually, once the situation is exposed to the light of public 
> scrutiny, the business owner "sees the light" pretty quickly.  They 
> usually try to pass it off as a misunderstanding and swear that they never

> meant to deny service to a person with a disability, but in any case, the 
> situation does get resolved, and sometimes they bend over backward to try 
> to make up for their mistaken policy.
>
> Oh, one other thing, if the business is one which prepares/serves food, 
> and they are using this as the excuse for refusing you entry with the dog,

> saying that the Health Department won't allow dogs, you can call the 
> County Health Inspector's office and ask them to inform the business owner

> that no health regulation requires the exclusion of persons with 
> disabilities accompanied by service animals from stores or restaurants 
> where food is displayed/prepared/served.  In fact, the exception for 
> service animals is written into the health codes.
>
> Anyway, good luck, and I hope you can muster the good old activist spirit 
> of the 1960's civil rights era (and of the NFB), and get your civil rights

> recognized and enforced!
>
> Best,
> Ann
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Lyn Gwizdak" <linda.gwizdak at cox.net>
> To: "NFBnet NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog 
> Users" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2011 12:49 PM
> Subject: [nagdu] Access problems in San Diego
>
>
>> Marion,
>> Below is a response my friend, Lisa, got from the police here when she 
>> asked them what recourse we had in response to an access denial in a 
>> business here.
>>
>> She emailed the officer on my behalf after I told her about an incident 
>> of denial of access in this guy's business because of my guide dog. the 
>> guy appeared to be Arab by his accent and he didn't care if he was 
>> violating the law - NO DOG.  I called my City Councilmember.  they gave 
>> me the number for San Diego Disability coordinator's office.  they said 
>> they only intervene if the access denial happened in a City owned 
>> building or office.  they told me to go to the State AG office.  They 
>> were no help either - no real person to talk to and no way to get one.  I

>> called the State CCB office and got someone from their guide dog grooup. 
>> they told me to talk to our police department.  And this below is their 
>> response to the incident.
>>
>> "the situation you described is not criminal and that is what the Police 
>> Department deals with, Criminal matters.  What your friend is 
>> experiencing is a Civil matter.  I attached some basic laws that your 
>> friend with the Guide Dog should know or have been told.  These are very 
>> common laws that even businesses should be aware of.  There is a number 
>> at the bottom you can call for more help.  Good luck!
>>
>>
>> Luis A. Roman
>> "Louie"
>> Community Liaison Officer (820s) & Facilities
>> Mid-City Division, San Diego Police Dept.
>> 4310 Landis Street, MS-785
>> San Diego, CA. 92105
>> Desk: (619) 516-3038
>> Fax:   (619) 516-3058
>> lroman at pd.sandiego.gov "
>>
>>
>>
>> This officer then attached a copy of a "Question and Answer" thing from 
>> the ADA.
>>
>>
>>
>> My question is how to enforce the law here????  The incident occured in 
>> early December while I was downtown before an appointment.  The store 
>> owner now thinks it's OK to keep service dogs out and that it is OK to do

>> as he pleases in regards to obeying the laws of this country.
>>
>>
>>
>> Any California listers who read this - what do you recommend I do?
>>
>>
>>
>> Lyn and Landon
>>
>> 619-405-5554
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>
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