[nagdu] Access problems in San Diego

Wed Jan 12 20:44:34 UTC 2011

Ann, I love your style!  I'd only make a couple of observations.  In some 
jurisdictions, physical attempts at removal by the business owner may well 
be considered a physical assult, especially if the person beinfg denied 
themselves is not in any way physically aggressive.

Secondly, I might be tempted, either with other service animall teams or 
not, to take a device which includes a camera and take a picture.  I'm sure 
the utube crowd might have something to say to and about the business and 
their attitudes.

Doug: fight fire with a bomb!
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ann Edie" <annedie at nycap.rr.com>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2011 2:53 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Access problems in San Diego

> Hi, Lyn,
>
> Speaking from my personal experience, if the local police will not put in 
> an appearance to let the business owner know that they are required under 
> the ADA to allow a person with a disability access to their business 
> accompanied by their service animal, then you have several options for 
> getting the problem solved:
>
> You can file a complaint with the US Department of Justice which is 
> charged with implementing this part of the ADA.  Or, you can file a 
> complaint with your state's Human Rights Division which will eventually 
> hold a hearing to establish the facts of the case and then issue a ruling 
> as to whether discrimination did occur, and then help mediate some remedy. 
> Both of these methods take a lot of time to get results.  And either 
> organization may decide that your little complaint will not deliver enough 
> bang for the buck, so to speak, and that they cannot spend their very 
> limited resources on such a little case.
>
> So you may decide to take more direct and personal action:  that is, take 
> a couple of guide dog user friends with you for moral support and go to 
> the business and enter the business and proceed as usual, with the 
> expectation of receiving the same polite and considerate service as any 
> other members of the public.  If the business owner shouts "No dogs!", 
> attempt to politely inform him/her of your rights under the ADA (if he/she 
> is able to listen and able to understand.)  If the business owner is not 
> physically pushing you out the door or blocking your passage into the 
> store, then I would continue to enter and see if the business owner will 
> serve you despite their protestations about the dog(s).  This tactic has 
> worked for me in some cases--I just pretend I didn't understand what they 
> are saying about the dog, like I can't understand their attempt at 
> speaking English, or maybe my disability includes deafness, or maybe I 
> have a cognitive impairment or something--but I just keep walking and keep 
> smiling, and sometimes they just decide that it is easier to serve me and 
> get it over with rather than continuing to cause a scene by resisting.
>
> If you get in and they ignore you or refuse to serve you, then you can 
> call the police and see if the mere appearance of the police, or the 
> threat of their appearance, will be enough to cause the business owner to 
> give in.  If the business is one which has any traffic at all, then the 
> sight of several citizens with disabilities and their service animals 
> standing in the entrance and the business owner trying to refuse them 
> service will surely be bad for business and cause the business owner to 
> think twice about persisting.  If the police do arrive and refuse to 
> enforce the law, and I'm sure that California has State laws which 
> parallel the provisions of the ADA, then you can choose to leave 
> peacefully, or you can choose to stay.  If you choose not to leave the 
> business, perhaps the police will arrest you and your friends for 
> disturbing the peace or something, which will give you a date in court and 
> a platform for gaining the attention of the local press and the justice 
> system.
>
> If you're up for a good fight, you could inform the local TV/media press 
> of the denial of access, and you could arrange to have press coverage of 
> another attempt by you and your friends to gain entry and service at the 
> business.  Usually, once the situation is exposed to the light of public 
> scrutiny, the business owner "sees the light" pretty quickly.  They 
> usually try to pass it off as a misunderstanding and swear that they never 
> meant to deny service to a person with a disability, but in any case, the 
> situation does get resolved, and sometimes they bend over backward to try 
> to make up for their mistaken policy.
>
> Oh, one other thing, if the business is one which prepares/serves food, 
> and they are using this as the excuse for refusing you entry with the dog, 
> saying that the Health Department won't allow dogs, you can call the 
> County Health Inspector's office and ask them to inform the business owner 
> that no health regulation requires the exclusion of persons with 
> disabilities accompanied by service animals from stores or restaurants 
> where food is displayed/prepared/served.  In fact, the exception for 
> service animals is written into the health codes.
>
> Anyway, good luck, and I hope you can muster the good old activist spirit 
> of the 1960's civil rights era (and of the NFB), and get your civil rights 
> recognized and enforced!
>
> Best,
> Ann
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Lyn Gwizdak" <linda.gwizdak at cox.net>
> To: "NFBnet NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog 
> Users" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2011 12:49 PM
> Subject: [nagdu] Access problems in San Diego
>
>
>> Marion,
>> Below is a response my friend, Lisa, got from the police here when she 
>> asked them what recourse we had in response to an access denial in a 
>> business here.
>>
>> She emailed the officer on my behalf after I told her about an incident 
>> of denial of access in this guy's business because of my guide dog. the 
>> guy appeared to be Arab by his accent and he didn't care if he was 
>> violating the law - NO DOG.  I called my City Councilmember.  they gave 
>> me the number for San Diego Disability coordinator's office.  they said 
>> they only intervene if the access denial happened in a City owned 
>> building or office.  they told me to go to the State AG office.  They 
>> were no help either - no real person to talk to and no way to get one.  I 
>> called the State CCB office and got someone from their guide dog grooup. 
>> they told me to talk to our police department.  And this below is their 
>> response to the incident.
>>
>> "the situation you described is not criminal and that is what the Police 
>> Department deals with, Criminal matters.  What your friend is 
>> experiencing is a Civil matter.  I attached some basic laws that your 
>> friend with the Guide Dog should know or have been told.  These are very 
>> common laws that even businesses should be aware of.  There is a number 
>> at the bottom you can call for more help.  Good luck!
>>
>>
>> Luis A. Roman
>> "Louie"
>> Community Liaison Officer (820s) & Facilities
>> Mid-City Division, San Diego Police Dept.
>> 4310 Landis Street, MS-785
>> San Diego, CA. 92105
>> Desk: (619) 516-3038
>> Fax:   (619) 516-3058
>> lroman at pd.sandiego.gov "
>>
>>
>>
>> This officer then attached a copy of a "Question and Answer" thing from 
>> the ADA.
>>
>>
>>
>> My question is how to enforce the law here????  The incident occured in 
>> early December while I was downtown before an appointment.  The store 
>> owner now thinks it's OK to keep service dogs out and that it is OK to do 
>> as he pleases in regards to obeying the laws of this country.
>>
>>
>>
>> Any California listers who read this - what do you recommend I do?
>>
>>
>>
>> Lyn and Landon
>>
>> 619-405-5554
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>
>
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