[nagdu] Some Perspective on the Policy

Lyn Gwizdak linda.gwizdak at cox.net
Sat Jul 2 17:10:57 UTC 2011 

Janine,
The NFB had to come up with the policy because NFB was having problems in 
getting hotels and good rates for the conventions. Does the ACB experience 
the same thing yet refuses to institute such a policy?


I agree that the problem people and dogs should be dealt with and the people 
whose dpgs behave be allowed to leave their dogs in the room. But on the 
other hand, if the problem people cause NFB problems in getting hotels or 
good rates, what do you do?

Until something better can be worked out, the policy must stand.

Really - Anaheim was the place that flat out refuses to host another NFB 
convention???  Bummer!  I was able to go to some of the NFB convention in 
1996 because it was so close to me.  Hope it can be worked out to have NFB 
back - and maybe even the ACB one so I could go to the Blind LGBT Pride 
group.

Lyn and Landon
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jenine Stanley" <jeninems at wowway.com>
To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2011 5:40 AM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Some Perspective on the Policy


> Actually, Marion,
>
> ACB and GDUI went in together to pay for the relief area but that was a
> separate issue from dogs left in rooms. GDUI refused to become the guide 
> dog
> police and has stated that it feels this is a function of the hotel to be
> exercised toward any guest, regardless of which conference he or she is
> with. That position has been maintained, even when a miniature horse 
> caused
> some issues a couple years back in the exhibit hall. GDUI's position was
> that ACB could bar the animal from that venue and the hotel could do so 
> from
> its premises but GDUI wasn't going to be the organization assigned to 
> police
> it.
>
> GDUI and ACB tell people every year that if their dogs are disruptive, the
> hotel has the right to force them to leave, and if their dogs do damages,
> they are responsible for paying. GDUI and ACB have also instituted a fee 
> for
> accidents. If you stay with an accident, report it and take 
> responsibility,
> for it, you will not be charged but if there's proof you left a mess, you
> pay for its cleanup, around $50 per mess. This has significantly lessened
> the number of accidents people just walk away from.
> It's been my experience organizing conventions that the hotels are very
> reluctant to get involved with service animal issues and want someone else
> to do their dirty work for them. Even when several dogs repeatedly 
> attacked
> other guides, GDUI could not get ACB or the hotel to bar the dogs from
> locations or events. Both entities asked GDUI to do it. I was president 
> then
> and said that we didn't have the authority to do so and advised those 
> whose
> dogs had been attacked to file police reports and handle it with the
> individual handlers. Most chose not to do so, which mystifies me to this
> day.
>
> Jenine Stanley
> jeninems at wowway.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Marion Gwizdala
> Sent: Friday, July 01, 2011 10:14 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Some Perspective on the Policy
>
> Jenine,
>    I am sure that the ACB probably paid the price - literally - for the
> mess. I know the NFB maintains good relationships with the industry by
> paying for the damages that are caused and not taken care of by the
> responsible parties. another reason for the policy is to minimize our
> exposure and financial liability. It's just too bad some take it 
> personally.
>
> I venture to bet that, if they had to write the check year-after-year, 
> they
> might be more agreeable to the policy!
>
> Fraternally yours,
> Marion
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Jenine Stanley" <jeninems at wowway.com>
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, July 01, 2011 7:50 PM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Some Perspective on the Policy
>
>
>> ACB was in Chicago in 1994. Marion was correct in that the relief area
>> situation was horrible, one set of boxes on a 6th floor roof. Street
>> curbing
>> was dangerous at best but no more so than in Manhattan.
>>
>> That hotel actually asked ACB back several years ago but rates were way
>> too
>> high in general. I was personally shocked they'd want us back after the
>> mess
>> but they had no qualms about it.
>>
>> Jenine Stanley
>> jeninems at wowway.com
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
>> Behalf
>> Of Dan Weiner
>> Sent: Friday, July 01, 2011 7:40 PM
>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Some Perspective on the Policy
>>
>> Just one minor correction.
>> The convention in 1994 was in Detroit, I was there.
>> The Chicago convention was 1995.
>>
>> Dan W.
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
>> Behalf
>> Of Lyn Gwizdak
>> Sent: Friday, July 01, 2011 6:39 PM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Some Perspective on the Policy
>>
>> Thank you, thank you, thank you, Marion for this post!
>>
>> Maybe you need to hang on to this to paste it into your remeinder of the
>> policy next year and maybe the folks who complain will finally understand
>> it.
>>
>> Have fun - I don't envy you when you have to bust people at the
>> conventions.
>>
>> Having close to 5,000 people this year!  Wow!
>>
>> Lyn and Landon
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Marion Gwizdala" <blind411 at verizon.net>
>> To: "NAGDU List" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2011 7:46 PM
>> Subject: [nagdu] Some Perspective on the Policy
>>
>>
>>> dear All,
>>>    I hope everyone will read this entire post and that it will give a
>>> little perspective to the NFB policy concerning leaving dogs unattended
>>> in
>>
>>> guest rooms during convention. Please keep in mind that this policy was
>>> enacted in an effort to resolve some very serious problems the
>>> organization faced in the past. It is not an arbitrary policy the
>>> Federation issued to attempt to make life difficult for guide dog users.
>>> Also, please keep in mind that the NFB Board of Directors is very
>>> supportive of the National Association of Guide dog Users and its
>>> members.
>>
>>> This year, the NFB will spend about $8500 providing relief areas for our
>>> guide dogs. This is quite a significant investment! Now, to the purpose
>>> of
>>
>>> this post.
>>>    In order to understand the need for the policy, we need a bit of
>>> historical perspective. In 1994, the NFB convention was in Chicago, Ill.
>>> During that convention, there were some very serious problems, as it
>>> pertained to guide dog handlers. There were more than the average number
>>> of accidents, partly due to the fact that the area around the hotel had
>>> very little grass, except for Grant Park, which was swamped with 
>>> millions
>>> of people for the Taste of Chicago. In addition to these accidents in 
>>> the
>>> public areas of the hotel, several guide dog users left their dogs
>>> unattended to go to the fireworks in grant Park because they knew their
>>> dogs were afraid of the noise. A very large number of stressed-out dogs
>>> carried on well into the night, disrupting other guests staying in the
>>> hotel. Furthermore, some of these dogs literally destroyed the rooms. 
>>> The
>>> long story short, since the guests were unable to pay for the damages,
>>> the
>>
>>> NFB had to cover the cost, which ran well into the thousands of dollars.
>>> Of course, some will say that the NFB should have required the
>>> responsible
>>
>>> parties to pay the damages, but you know the old adage of getting blood
>>> from a turnip! If the NFB didn't pay the damages, they would have been
>>> hard-pressed to find another hotel willing to offer us the rates we are
>>> accustomed to receiving. Even though we did pay the damages, though, 
>>> word
>>> travels quickly in the hospitality industry and the NFB was having a
>>> difficult time finding properties willing to host our conventions and
>>> negotiating the rates.
>>>    The NFB attempted to assess a surcharge of $25 for each guide dog
>>> user,
>>
>>> but this was met with a great deal of resistance and this plan was
>>> scrapped very quickly. The resulting compromise was the policy that 
>>> draws
>>> so much contention every year.
>>>    I would like to offer a real-life analagy. Most communities have a
>>> public intoxication law. Basically, this law says that, if you are
>>> intoxicated and behave in a disorderly fashion, you are going to jail.
>>> The
>>
>>> law is enacted because there was a problem with intoxicated people
>>> behaving in a disorderly manner. Now, some could argue that it is their
>>> right to drink if they are over the age of 21 and they would be correct.
>>> Therefore, they would argue, it is their right to become intoxicated 
>>> and,
>>> again, they are right! However, if your public intoxication results in
>>> behavior the community deems disorderly, impinging on the rights of
>>> others
>>
>>> to be free from such behavior, the police have the right to impose the
>>> remedies available under the law. at the same time, if one chooses to
>>> become intoxicated in public and behave themselves, no one really cares.
>>> It is only when that state of intoxication imposes negative consequences
>>> on public order that the remedies available are imposed.
>>>    One post implied that I was only agreeing to the policy because it
>>> came
>>
>>> from the leadership. This member is absolutely correct. Policies and 
>>> laws
>>> are enacted for the general good of the community in an effort to 
>>> provide
>>> remedies for behaviors that negatively impact that community. Barking 
>>> and
>>> destructive dogs negatively impact the NFB community and the leadership
>>> of
>>
>>> this community has designed a policy to resolve this issue and provide
>>> remedies. As a member of this community, you agree to abide by the
>>> policies or laws that govern that society's behavior or face the
>>> consequences for their violation. Whether that society is a country,
>>> state, county, city, place of business, workplace, or the NFB 
>>> convention,
>>> there are acceptable behaviors and consequences for unacceptable
>>> behavior.
>>
>>> Anything else is anarchy!
>>>    I reject the notion that this - or any other - policy treats one like
>>> a
>>
>>> child. In fact, what is childish is being intentionally oppositional and
>>> defiant of societal norms and mores. Remember that it was not too many
>>> months ago when someone believed he had the right to insult anyone he
>>> wanted to on this list and no one could do anything about it. How many 
>>> of
>>> you rejoiced when it was announced that he was permanently banned from
>>> subscribing to any of the NFBNET lists? Parenthetically, he telephoned 
>>> me
>>> to advise me that he intended to disrupt the NAGDU meeting this year. 
>>> the
>>> Board has taken the measure of refusing his membership for conduct
>>> unbecoming a member. Since only members in good standing can speak on 
>>> the
>>> floor, this effectively bars him from disrupting our meetings. Might he
>>> do
>>
>>> so anyway? Perhaps! But there are other remedies available, too!
>>>    I hope you have a better understanding of how this policy came to be
>>> and the practical issues it addresses. It is not an anti guide dog
>>> policy;
>>
>>> rather, it is meant to prevent a serious issue and maintain order for 
>>> the
>>> common good of all concerned. It is unfortunate that such a policy had 
>>> to
>>> be implemented to deal with a problem created by a few. Just as most
>>> people are generally honest, but we have laws against stealing to 
>>> provide
>>> remedies for the few that are not, most guide dog users are responsible.
>>> The policy is to provide remedies for those who are not!
>>>    I hope that everyone has a fantastic convention. I understand that we
>>> are expecting more than 4000 in Orlando. That means we will most likely
>>> have close to 500 guide dog teams! I hope many of you will join us for
>>> the
>>
>>> NAGDU meetings on Sunday & Tuesday in the Panzacola H-3 ballroom at 7:00
>>> pm! I'll see you then or here on the list afterward! Have an awesome
>>> Fourth of july!
>>>
>>> Fraternally yours,
>>> Marion Gwizdala, President
>>> National Association of Guide Dog Users (NAGDU)
>>> National Federation of the Blind
>>> 813-626-2789
>>> President at NAGDU.ORG
>>> HTTP://WWW.NAGDU.ORG
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>
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>>
>>
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