[nagdu] Some Perspective on the Policy

Tracy Carcione carcione at access.net
Sun Jul 3 14:39:50 UTC 2011


Hi Jenine.
That sounds like a much better policy to me.  Treat everyone like an
adult, including making them be responsible for any problems they cause.
I did not join NAGDU to be part of the dog police, though it seems to be a
strong inclination for some.
Tracy

> Actually, Marion,
>
> ACB and GDUI went in together to pay for the relief area but that was a
> separate issue from dogs left in rooms. GDUI refused to become the guide
> dog
> police and has stated that it feels this is a function of the hotel to be
> exercised toward any guest, regardless of which conference he or she is
> with. That position has been maintained, even when a miniature horse
> caused
> some issues a couple years back in the exhibit hall. GDUI's position was
> that ACB could bar the animal from that venue and the hotel could do so
> from
> its premises but GDUI wasn't going to be the organization assigned to
> police
> it.
>
> GDUI and ACB tell people every year that if their dogs are disruptive, the
> hotel has the right to force them to leave, and if their dogs do damages,
> they are responsible for paying. GDUI and ACB have also instituted a fee
> for
> accidents. If you stay with an accident, report it and take
> responsibility,
> for it, you will not be charged but if there's proof you left a mess, you
> pay for its cleanup, around $50 per mess. This has significantly lessened
> the number of accidents people just walk away from.
> It's been my experience organizing conventions that the hotels are very
> reluctant to get involved with service animal issues and want someone else
> to do their dirty work for them. Even when several dogs repeatedly
> attacked
> other guides, GDUI could not get ACB or the hotel to bar the dogs from
> locations or events. Both entities asked GDUI to do it. I was president
> then
> and said that we didn't have the authority to do so and advised those
> whose
> dogs had been attacked to file police reports and handle it with the
> individual handlers. Most chose not to do so, which mystifies me to this
> day.
>
> Jenine Stanley
> jeninems at wowway.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Marion Gwizdala
> Sent: Friday, July 01, 2011 10:14 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Some Perspective on the Policy
>
> Jenine,
>     I am sure that the ACB probably paid the price - literally - for the
> mess. I know the NFB maintains good relationships with the industry by
> paying for the damages that are caused and not taken care of by the
> responsible parties. another reason for the policy is to minimize our
> exposure and financial liability. It's just too bad some take it
> personally.
>
> I venture to bet that, if they had to write the check year-after-year,
> they
> might be more agreeable to the policy!
>
> Fraternally yours,
> Marion
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jenine Stanley" <jeninems at wowway.com>
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, July 01, 2011 7:50 PM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Some Perspective on the Policy
>
>
>> ACB was in Chicago in 1994. Marion was correct in that the relief area
>> situation was horrible, one set of boxes on a 6th floor roof. Street
>> curbing
>> was dangerous at best but no more so than in Manhattan.
>>
>> That hotel actually asked ACB back several years ago but rates were way
>> too
>> high in general. I was personally shocked they'd want us back after the
>> mess
>> but they had no qualms about it.
>>
>> Jenine Stanley
>> jeninems at wowway.com
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf
>> Of Dan Weiner
>> Sent: Friday, July 01, 2011 7:40 PM
>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Some Perspective on the Policy
>>
>> Just one minor correction.
>> The convention in 1994 was in Detroit, I was there.
>> The Chicago convention was 1995.
>>
>> Dan W.
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf
>> Of Lyn Gwizdak
>> Sent: Friday, July 01, 2011 6:39 PM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Some Perspective on the Policy
>>
>> Thank you, thank you, thank you, Marion for this post!
>>
>> Maybe you need to hang on to this to paste it into your remeinder of the
>> policy next year and maybe the folks who complain will finally
>> understand
>> it.
>>
>> Have fun - I don't envy you when you have to bust people at the
>> conventions.
>>
>> Having close to 5,000 people this year!  Wow!
>>
>> Lyn and Landon
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Marion Gwizdala" <blind411 at verizon.net>
>> To: "NAGDU List" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2011 7:46 PM
>> Subject: [nagdu] Some Perspective on the Policy
>>
>>
>>> dear All,
>>>    I hope everyone will read this entire post and that it will give a
>>> little perspective to the NFB policy concerning leaving dogs unattended
>>> in
>>
>>> guest rooms during convention. Please keep in mind that this policy was
>>> enacted in an effort to resolve some very serious problems the
>>> organization faced in the past. It is not an arbitrary policy the
>>> Federation issued to attempt to make life difficult for guide dog
>>> users.
>>> Also, please keep in mind that the NFB Board of Directors is very
>>> supportive of the National Association of Guide dog Users and its
>>> members.
>>
>>> This year, the NFB will spend about $8500 providing relief areas for
>>> our
>>> guide dogs. This is quite a significant investment! Now, to the purpose
>>> of
>>
>>> this post.
>>>    In order to understand the need for the policy, we need a bit of
>>> historical perspective. In 1994, the NFB convention was in Chicago,
>>> Ill.
>>> During that convention, there were some very serious problems, as it
>>> pertained to guide dog handlers. There were more than the average
>>> number
>>> of accidents, partly due to the fact that the area around the hotel had
>>> very little grass, except for Grant Park, which was swamped with
>>> millions
>>> of people for the Taste of Chicago. In addition to these accidents in
>>> the
>>> public areas of the hotel, several guide dog users left their dogs
>>> unattended to go to the fireworks in grant Park because they knew their
>>> dogs were afraid of the noise. A very large number of stressed-out dogs
>>> carried on well into the night, disrupting other guests staying in the
>>> hotel. Furthermore, some of these dogs literally destroyed the rooms.
>>> The
>>> long story short, since the guests were unable to pay for the damages,
>>> the
>>
>>> NFB had to cover the cost, which ran well into the thousands of
>>> dollars.
>>> Of course, some will say that the NFB should have required the
>>> responsible
>>
>>> parties to pay the damages, but you know the old adage of getting blood
>>> from a turnip! If the NFB didn't pay the damages, they would have been
>>> hard-pressed to find another hotel willing to offer us the rates we are
>>> accustomed to receiving. Even though we did pay the damages, though,
>>> word
>>> travels quickly in the hospitality industry and the NFB was having a
>>> difficult time finding properties willing to host our conventions and
>>> negotiating the rates.
>>>    The NFB attempted to assess a surcharge of $25 for each guide dog
>>> user,
>>
>>> but this was met with a great deal of resistance and this plan was
>>> scrapped very quickly. The resulting compromise was the policy that
>>> draws
>>> so much contention every year.
>>>    I would like to offer a real-life analagy. Most communities have a
>>> public intoxication law. Basically, this law says that, if you are
>>> intoxicated and behave in a disorderly fashion, you are going to jail.
>>> The
>>
>>> law is enacted because there was a problem with intoxicated people
>>> behaving in a disorderly manner. Now, some could argue that it is their
>>> right to drink if they are over the age of 21 and they would be
>>> correct.
>>> Therefore, they would argue, it is their right to become intoxicated
>>> and,
>>> again, they are right! However, if your public intoxication results in
>>> behavior the community deems disorderly, impinging on the rights of
>>> others
>>
>>> to be free from such behavior, the police have the right to impose the
>>> remedies available under the law. at the same time, if one chooses to
>>> become intoxicated in public and behave themselves, no one really
>>> cares.
>>> It is only when that state of intoxication imposes negative
>>> consequences
>>> on public order that the remedies available are imposed.
>>>    One post implied that I was only agreeing to the policy because it
>>> came
>>
>>> from the leadership. This member is absolutely correct. Policies and
>>> laws
>>> are enacted for the general good of the community in an effort to
>>> provide
>>> remedies for behaviors that negatively impact that community. Barking
>>> and
>>> destructive dogs negatively impact the NFB community and the leadership
>>> of
>>
>>> this community has designed a policy to resolve this issue and provide
>>> remedies. As a member of this community, you agree to abide by the
>>> policies or laws that govern that society's behavior or face the
>>> consequences for their violation. Whether that society is a country,
>>> state, county, city, place of business, workplace, or the NFB
>>> convention,
>>> there are acceptable behaviors and consequences for unacceptable
>>> behavior.
>>
>>> Anything else is anarchy!
>>>    I reject the notion that this - or any other - policy treats one
>>> like
>>> a
>>
>>> child. In fact, what is childish is being intentionally oppositional
>>> and
>>> defiant of societal norms and mores. Remember that it was not too many
>>> months ago when someone believed he had the right to insult anyone he
>>> wanted to on this list and no one could do anything about it. How many
>>> of
>>> you rejoiced when it was announced that he was permanently banned from
>>> subscribing to any of the NFBNET lists? Parenthetically, he telephoned
>>> me
>>> to advise me that he intended to disrupt the NAGDU meeting this year.
>>> the
>>> Board has taken the measure of refusing his membership for conduct
>>> unbecoming a member. Since only members in good standing can speak on
>>> the
>>> floor, this effectively bars him from disrupting our meetings. Might he
>>> do
>>
>>> so anyway? Perhaps! But there are other remedies available, too!
>>>    I hope you have a better understanding of how this policy came to be
>>> and the practical issues it addresses. It is not an anti guide dog
>>> policy;
>>
>>> rather, it is meant to prevent a serious issue and maintain order for
>>> the
>>> common good of all concerned. It is unfortunate that such a policy had
>>> to
>>> be implemented to deal with a problem created by a few. Just as most
>>> people are generally honest, but we have laws against stealing to
>>> provide
>>> remedies for the few that are not, most guide dog users are
>>> responsible.
>>> The policy is to provide remedies for those who are not!
>>>    I hope that everyone has a fantastic convention. I understand that
>>> we
>>> are expecting more than 4000 in Orlando. That means we will most likely
>>> have close to 500 guide dog teams! I hope many of you will join us for
>>> the
>>
>>> NAGDU meetings on Sunday & Tuesday in the Panzacola H-3 ballroom at
>>> 7:00
>>> pm! I'll see you then or here on the list afterward! Have an awesome
>>> Fourth of july!
>>>
>>> Fraternally yours,
>>> Marion Gwizdala, President
>>> National Association of Guide Dog Users (NAGDU)
>>> National Federation of the Blind
>>> 813-626-2789
>>> President at NAGDU.ORG
>>> HTTP://WWW.NAGDU.ORG
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>>
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>> et
>>
>>
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