[nagdu] thoughts on policy alternatives
harold leigland
h_leigland at bresnan.net
Mon Jul 4 23:03:09 UTC 2011
hi hears a thought for you'll when I was at the 96 convention within the Montana group one volunteer at a time looked after dogs we had their. done on a state by state way. I did not have a dog then but did look in from time to time to see how things were going. any way happy 4th hal
----- Original Message -----
From: Tami Kinney <tamara.8024 at comcast.net>
To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
Date: Monday, Jul 4, 2011 10:37:52 AM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] thoughts on policy alternatives
>
>
> Albert,
>
> Still coming in late and randomly on this one, but I want say that I do
> agree philosophically with the approach you outlined here.
>
> I can see only one problem with it in the context of the convention. Who
> gets to be the lucky one to manage the logistics of making that happen?
> With advance planning for future conventions, it would be feasible to
> form a committee to plan it out and round up volunteers to form a crew
> for that purpose. As well as to round up volunteers for dog sitting
> type arrangement for those who want to go have fun without their dogs.
> These volunteers would, I assume, need to be separate from the NAGDU
> volunteers already committed to handling the table in the exhibit hall
> for fundraising after having helped to organizing the fund raising
> activies prior !to convention. And those who manage the registrations
> and gathering of NAGDU dues for those who want to take an active part in
> the business meeting. And those who do the arranging of the business
> meeting and produce the materials for it and... Me, I need a nap just
> thinking about it. /smile/ And I probably have left quite a few swaths
> of volunteers out of the picture. You got your relief areas. You got
> your dog food acquisitiion and distribution, you got your, well, there's
> probably something else major I'm lieaving out of the already existing
> logistical areas. Oh, I also remember that when I attended convention,
> guide dog users were greeted with a week's supply of flea prevention
> with offers of assistance to apply it. /smile/
>
> It is certainly worth thinking about, especially if anyone who doesn't
> already have her/his hands full wants to take a stab at leading the way.
> I'm in the hands-full department currently, and would honestly prefer to
> put in my convention time when next I manage to make it there lending a
> hand in fundraising for a slot or two then enjoying the rest of
> convention dealing iwth other areas of interest and/or need, secure in
> the knowledge I have done my bit for NAGDU. /smile/
>
> I will add that I am feeling quite pleased that what so often turns into
> a big hairball of emotionally charged arguments and ferocious contention
> appears to have turned into a discussion of althernatives, pros and
> cons, greater awareness of the reasons for the rule in the first place
> and the issues it was created to address. An adult discussion about
> our desire to be treated like adults, not children, seems far more
> productive to me than a childish one. /grin/
>
> On Fri, 2011-07-01 at 13:52 com0400, Albert J Rizzi wrote:
> > That is one great option for sure. I am still pondering marions request on
> > how to sort out the bad apples. I would think that the hotel, or the
> > organization itself would be able to have, certainly by now for as long as
> > this has been an issue, kept a list of offenders, repeat offenders I should
> > think, and if and when they attend a conference, as sort of a consequence of
> > not properly attending to your dogs individual needs, whether that be
> > cleaning up after them, hiring a dog sitter if your dog is not capable of
> > being left alone for one reason or another, or as Marion shared, which was
> > disturbing for sure, allowing their dogs to run freely in the hotel public
> > areas,, as a condition of the offense, and I would wholeheartedly support a
> > zero tolerance across the board, would be to withhold the special rates
> > offered to members and members in good standing. i would think that hitting
> > them in their purses would shift things just a little, at least that is
> > where I would think to start changing the bad behavior. Consequences and
> > rewards have dramatic impacts on all types of behavior.
> >
> >
> > Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
> > Founder
> > My Blind Spot, Inc.
> > 90 Broad Street — 18th Fl.
> > New York, New York 10004
> > www.myblindspot.org
> > PH: 917-553-0347
> > Fax: 212-858-5759
> > "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who is
> > doing it."
> >
> >
> > Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> > Of Michael Hingson
> > Sent: Friday, July 01, 2011 1:38 PM
> > To: 'Nagdu Mailing Listbleathe National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> > Subject: [nagdu] thoughts on policy alternatives
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > Here is a thought which has worked elsewhere.
> >
> > Perhaps some of the guide dog school reps who attend the convention might be
> > willing to have a room or rooms where they can baby sit dogs. Ski for Light
> > does this. Trainers may wish to do this, for example, rather than attending
> > the banquet.
> >
> > Personally, I take Africa with me everywhere as I brought her and think it
> > is my responsibility to use her and be with her at all times. I recognize
> > others feel differently and it is not my place to assume all will act as I
> > do.
> >
> >
> > Best,
> >
> >
> > Michael Hingson
> >
> > The Michael Hingson Group, INC.
> > "Speaking with Vision?
> > Michael Hingson, President
> > (415) 827-4084
> > info at michaelhingson.com
> > To learn more about my upcoming book, speaking topics and speaking
> > availability please visit www.michaelhingson.com
> > Thunder Dog is now available for early ordering on Amazon!!!
> > http://www.amazon.com/Thunder-Dog-Blind-Triumph-Ground/dp/140020304X/ref=sr_
> > 14..3"s=books&ie=UTFBLEH&QID=1289090352&SR=1-3
> >
> >
> > for info on the new KNFB Reader Mobile, visit:
> > http://knfbreader.michaelhingson.com
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> > Of Marion Gwizdala
> > Sent: Friday, July 01, 2011 8:17 AM
> > To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> > Subject: Re: [nagdu] moderator notes
> >
> > Albert,
> > Do you have any suggestions on how we should deal with the "bad apples"
> > other than creating a policy, applicable to all, with specific remedies? I
> > have heard a great deal of comments against the policy; however, none of
> > those who disagree have offered an alternative.
> >
> > Fraternally yours,
> > Marion
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Albert J Rizzi" <albert at myblindspot.org>
> > To: "'Nagdu Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
> > <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> > Sent: Friday, July 01, 2011 7:57 AM
> > Subject: Re: [nagdu] moderator notes
> >
> >
> > > Well then perhaps the handlers should be banned rather then a whole
> > > community who for the most part are more on top of their responsibilities.
> > > It goes back to not letting one bad apple spoil the whole bunch. Not
> > > cleaning up after ones dog is unconscionable. /
> > >
> > > Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
> > > Founder
> > > My Blind Spot, Inc.
> > > 90 Broad Street — 18th Fl.
> > > New York, New York 10004
> > > www.myblindspot.org
> > > PH: 917-553-0347
> > > Fax: 212-858-5759
> > > "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who is
> > > doing it."
> > >
> > >
> > > Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> > > Of Julie J.
> > > Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2011 9:04 PM
> > > To: NAGDU Mailing Listbleathe National Association of Guide Dog Users
> > > Subject: Re: [nagdu] moderator notes
> > >
> > > Dan,
> > >
> > > Fleas were just the beginning. There were also issues of barking and not
> > > cleaning up accidents.
> > >
> > > Julie
> > > On 6/30/2011 7:28 PM, Dan Weiner wrote:
> > >thx^^;". So let's see...some dogs had fleas and therefore the rule is not to leave
> > >thx^^;". your dogs unattended?
> > >thx^^;". Explain that one.
> > >thx^^;".
> > >thx^^;". Dan W.
> > >thx^^;".
> > >thx^^;".
> > >thx^^;".
> > >thx^^;". -----Original Message-----
> > >thx^^;". From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> > >thx^^;". Behalf
> > >thx^^;". Of Julie J.
> > >thx^^;". Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2011 6:42 PM
> > >thx^^;". To: NAGDU Mailing Listbleathe National Association of Guide Dog Users
> > >thx^^;". Subject: [nagdu] moderator notes
> > >thx^^;".
> > >thx^^;". Hey all!
> > >thx^^;".
> > >thx^^;". Wow! There are a ton of messages. I haven't read through all of them
> > >thx^^;". yet. I will. In the meantime I wanted to interject a few things.
> > >thx^^;".
> > >thx^^;". first and foremost, some of the messages have had a tone that is
> > >thx^^;". bordering
> > >thx^^;". on rude. I am a very, very, strong advocate of letting people speak
> > >thx^^;". their
> > >thx^^;". mind. However the writer 99must* always be polite and keep
> > >thx^^;". the message on thoughts, ideas, facts or plans. It is
> > >thx^^;". absolutely not okay to flame an individual or even an organization. Now
> > >thx^^;". before people go all crazy on me, please disagree to your hearts content.
> > >thx^^;". Please tell us all the things you don't like about the NFB.
> > >thx^^;". I'm all ears, but where I draw the line is when constructive
> > >thx^^;". critisism turns into just plain whining or worse.
> > >thx^^;".
> > >thx^^;". So explain why it is that you don't agree with the policy. Tell us an
> > >thx^^;". alternative that could work just as well or better to solve the problem
> > >thx^^;". of
> > >thx^^;". barking and other problems with guide dogs left unattended in hotel
> > >thx^^;". rooms.
> > >thx^^;". Tell us what you have done to ensure that your dog isn't barking even
> > >thx^^;". when
> > >thx^^;". you are not there to know for sure.
> > >thx^^;".
> > >thx^^;". I also think it's important for people to know the history behind this
> > > rule.
> > >thx^^;". It hasn't always been a policy of NAGDU and the NFB. Many years ago at
> > >thx^^;". an
> > >thx^^;". NFB convention in a very nice hotel that had given us very nice room
> > > rates,
> > >thx^^;". guide dogs came that had fleas and were generally a huge problem. This
> > >thx^^;". hotel would not host our conventions ever again after their horrible
> > >thx^^;". experience. It turns out that hotels, just like all other sectors of
> > >thx^^;". commerce, talk amongst each other. It got around that guide dogs at
> > >thx^^;". convention were a problem. Other hotels were very reluctant if not
> > > outright
> > >thx^^;". opposed to hosting our conventions. You will
> > >thx^^;". notice that NFB conventions get very, very good room rates. A hotel
> > >thx^^;". cannot deny a guest with a guide dog access, but when you are talking
> > > about
> > >thx^^;". an entire convention you are talking about a very different thing. The
> > >thx^^;". excellent room rates were in jeopardy. So NAGDU and the NFB came up with
> > >thx^^;". the plan to self regulate guide dog problems in order that the hotel
> > >thx^^;". would
> > >thx^^;". continue to give us the low room rates. This is why you are asked to not
> > >thx^^;". leave your dog unattended, to clean up accidents or to
> > >thx^^;". get a NFB affiliated person to assist instead of hotel staff.
> > >thx^^;". These policies were not dreamt up to single out guide dog users or to
> > >thx^^;". make
> > >thx^^;". our lives more difficult. They were drafted after problems occurred that
> > >thx^^;". were affecting the entire organization. So if there had been no fleas in
> > >thx^^;". the first place or no dogs barking like crazy in hotel rooms, we would
> > >thx^^;". not
> > >thx^^;". have these policies and would not be having this discussion right now.
> > >thx^^;".
> > >thx^^;". Thanks for making this list great!
> > >thx^^;". Julie
> > >thx^^;". NAGDU list moderator
> > >thx^^;".
> > >thx^^;".
> > >thx^^;". _______________________________________________
> > >thx^^;". nagdu mailing list
> > >thx^^;". nagdu at nfbnet.org
> > >thx^^;". http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
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> > >thx^^;". et
> > >thx^^;".
> > >thx^^;".
> > >thx^^;". _______________________________________________
> > >thx^^;". nagdu mailing list
> > >thx^^;". nagdu at nfbnet.org
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> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/julielj%40neb.rr.com
> > >thx^^;".
> > >
> > >
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