[nagdu] Telling the dog the destination

Wed Jul 27 19:32:24 UTC 2011

Yeah, I've done that with Mitzi a few times without realizing there was
anybody else around, only to hear them cracking up from three feet
away. /lol/ She really does prefer knowing where we're going, though.
And it does turn out really well, better than if we waited for me to
figure it out and tell her what to do at every turning point. She has
gotten really good at looking ahead to find the safest route to where
we're going, even it's a familiar route but something has changed. By
now, I getting better and better at trusting her judgment even on a more
abstract and pre-planning level because nearly every time I've
questioned her over the past couple of years and have gone back to
figure out what was going on -- or insisted on having it my way, she's
turned out to be making the right -- by which I mean the safest --
choice all along. I do think it's funny how whenever we go into a new
shopping center or something like that, she will always show me where my
usual key landmarks are. The restroom, the elevator, and Starbuck's (or
coffee shop, although sometimes it seems she can tell the difference...
Or is it that I can sort of tell the Starbuck's sounds and smells and
have passed that on to her.? Who knows how she does it? I used to think
I was maybe being too overindulgent to let her look out of upper story
windows in unfamiliar buildings until I finally noticed how consistently
she could find her way to the right spot even if we ended up going out
of a different entrance. Or if I got turned around and asked her to find
the door... She would stop at windows she could see out of and stare
intently, then suddenly ship into action and off we would, poodle head
and tail high with newfound confidence... Handler's brow furrowed with
puzzlement and a general sense of being lost. /lol/ After the fourth or
fifth time, though... I don't care if dogs are officially incapable of
looking out a second or third story window and figuring out where they
are and where to go from what they see. If she wants to take a bit of a
break to look out the window, then that is fine by me.  /lol/ Whatever
is happening in her poodly brain is beyond me, but if all the break does
is give her a chance to regroup and regain her confidence, it works and
we get where we need to go without a lot of wandering about in strange
buildings while I get over my pride enough to knock on someone's door to
ask. /lol/

Like you say, the more you now, the more you have left to learn. I've
noticed that by paying attention to make sure I don't get too dependent
on her way of finding things and figuring out safe routes, that I've
actually gotten better at cane O&M, although I really have to
concentrate when I go out to work on that. The time/distance changes
really throw me off, but I can still manage to do my planned route
successfully even if I start feeling lost after the second turn. /lol/
Glad you and Ben are having fun learning to find stuff together,
too. /grin/

Tami

Ya Wed, 2011-07-27 at 13:50 -0400, Tracy Carcione wrote: 
> Hi Tami.
> I only thought it was silly because I thought it was like, you know,
> stepping out of the house and telling the dog to go to the bank, like that
> dumb old stereotype of what we guide dog users do.  But really it makes
> perfect sense to give the dog a clue about which of several options I want
> to take.  Even though I still feel silly saying enthusiastically "We're
> going to the gym!"
> 
> Sorry to hear Daisy's hips are starting to give out.  She sounds like
> quite a gal.  Loved the story about her scaring off the thunderstorm.
> Tracy
> 
> > Tracy,
> >
> > Any time! I think it's pretty silly, too, but if it works... Glad to
> > know someone else has a dog that can follow an itinerary. /grin/
> >
> > Tami
> >
> > On Wed, 2011-07-27 at 12:01 -0400, Tracy Carcione wrote:
> >> Hi Bob.
> >> Congrats on your new partnership!
> >> When I have a new dog, I try to be patient and encourage him to figure
> >> out
> >> problems.  I think it helps build initiative.
> >> I've had guide dogs for more than 30 years now, but I decided to try
> >> something Tami Kinney does, telling the dog where I want to go sometime
> >> before we get there.  I always thought that was silly, but it actually
> >> seems to help Ben make right choices, or at least not hesitate by every
> >> possibility.  We go to several stores down on our main street, and I
> >> tell
> >> Ben which one we want maybe 20-50 yards before we come to the first one.
> >> If I've told Ben we're going to the diner, he'll take a different line
> >> on
> >> the sidewalk and breeze right past the gym.  Then, when we get to the
> >> diner, which I have been telling him "Inside diner", he goes right to it
> >> and I say "Diner!"  with much happiness.  You might try it--tell Nick
> >> where you want to go, like "office", and direct him there, then say
> >> "office" a couple times in a happy way.  It won't hurt, and it might
> >> help.
> >> Thanks Tami!  We live and learn.
> >> Tracy
> >>
> >> > Good Afternoon folks,
> >> >
> >> > I've found the comments resulting from my inquiry of a couple of
> >> days
> >> > ago
> >> > very interesting and the varied  perspectives have been helpful.  My
> >> > reason
> >> > for asking about canes is that I'd like something relatively light,
> >> > perhaps
> >> > collapsible, in order to solve occasional problems of orientation
> >> > especially
> >> > in instances in which Nick encounters and obstruction and seems unable
> >> to
> >> > figure out how best to get me around it or when we overshoot a
> >> turn or
> >> > when he takes a wrong intersecting sidewalk and I need to help him
> >> > reorient.
> >> > I recognize the need for a great deal of trust in the dog and this was
> >> > initially something of a challenge during my training but my
> >> confidence in
> >> > him is growing daily.  He does, however, make mistakes some of which I
> >> > contribute to and since he doesn't always know where I intend to go I
> >> > recognize that there are times when I will need to give helpful
> >> > instructions. Right now we're working on what will become routine
> >> routes
> >> > to
> >> > work and on the campus where I work and there are lots of walks that
> >> > intersect that confuse him.  I'm learning to give him time to work
> >> things
> >> > out for hmself but there are some things he can't work out because he
> >> > doesn't know where I need or want to go.  I'm confident that with a
> >> GPS
> >> > and
> >> > some kind of light cane there will come a time when I can go almost
> >> > anywhere.  Thanks again for the helpful comments.
> >> >
> >> > Bob
> >> >
> >> >        - Original Message -----
> >> > From: "Pickrell, Rebecca M (TASC)" <REBECCA.PICKRELL at tasc.com>
> >> > To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
> >> Users'"
> >> > <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> >> > Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2011 10:33 AM
> >> > Subject: Re: [nagdu] Returned From The Seeing Eye
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >> No, no, you don't need to know your neighborhood to have good cane
> >> >> skills,
> >> >> you need to be able to problem solve. That's what Bob?? is doing.
> >> >>
> >> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> >> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> >> >> Behalf
> >> >> Of dmgina
> >> >> Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2011 11:30 AM
> >> >> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> >> >> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Returned From The Seeing Eye
> >> >>
> >> >> When I got my first dog it was mandatory to know my area. If I had
> >> not,
> >> >> I
> >> >> would have not gotten my dog.
> >> >> If it is required to have good cane skills, then you need to know
> >> your
> >> >> neighboorhod.
> >> >> Dar
> >> >>
> >> >> Sent from my iPhone
> >> >>
> >> >> On Jul 26, 2011, at 6:53 AM, "Pickrell, Rebecca M (TASC)"
> >> >> <REBECCA.PICKRELL at tasc.com> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >>> Maybe it's me but I found the "I hope you know your neighborhood"
> >> >>> comment
> >> >>> a bit insulting.  Even if he doesn't, for any number of reasons so
> >> >>> what?
> >> >>> We all must learn new things all the time.
> >> >>> To answer the question, you can heel your dog and use a cane when
> >> you
> >> >>> want to check things out.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >> >>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> >> >>> Behalf Of dmgina
> >> >>> Sent: Sunday, July 24, 2011 10:13 PM
> >> >>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> >> >>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Returned From The Seeing Eye
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Dar here,
> >> >>> Welcome home.
> >> >>> One of the concerns I would have if you use a cane all the time, is
> >> >>> your
> >> >>> dog will become sloppy on the job.
> >> >>> Since you are trying to figure out the problen not letting the dog
> >> do
> >> >>> what he is trained to do.
> >> >>> Deciding what is best, and you trusting the dog.
> >> >>> I hope you know your neighborhood?
> >> >>> Dar
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Sent from my iPhone
> >> >>>
> >> >>> On Jul 24, 2011, at 6:30 PM, Robert Martin <robert.martin at cfu.net>
> >> >>> wrote:
> >> >>>
> >> >>>> HI,
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> Late on Thursday afternoon I returned to Iowa from three and a half
> >> >>>> weeks at The Seeing Eye In New Jersey.  I am now the partner of a
> >> >>>> sixty-pound Golden Retriever named Nick who is a very mellow and
> >> >>>> exceptionally friendly dog who also seems to be a very good worker.
> >> >>>> If
> >> >>>> I learn to be as effective as he is, we should have a wonderful
> >> >>>> partnership.  We have lots of learning and getting acquainted
> >> before
> >> >>>> us
> >> >>>> but I think we're well matched and well trained.  I was enormously
> >> >>>> impressed with the instructors and the staff at the Seeing Eye.
> >> Like
> >> >>>> everyone I was apprehensive but quickly realized that I was in
> >> >>>> excellent
> >> >>>> hands and although I made this decision somewhat later than do most
> >> >>>> people, I do not regret it for one minute.  I will probably be
> >> calling
> >> >>>> on all of you for advice from time to time and I'm confident I will
> >> >>>> continue to benefit from the experiences of all of you.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> For the moment I have one questions.  It's quite an adjustment to
> >> move
> >> >>>> from the kind of information one receives from a cane to that which
> >> >>>> one
> >> >>>> receives from a dog.  I was told   that there is sometimes a
> >> benefit
> >> >>>> from coupling the work of the dog with the occasional use of a cane
> >> to
> >> >>>> figure out what kind of obstacles  the dog is trying to cope with
> >> or
> >> >>>> to
> >> >>>> get a better sense of orientation to an unfamiliar site.  Can any
> >> of
> >> >>>> you
> >> >>>> suggest what kind of cane you may occasionally use in conjunction
> >> with
> >> >>>> your dog?  Does a good collapsible cane work well for such
> >> situations
> >> >>>> where a cane might be appropriate?  Any advice will be much
> >> >>>> appreciated.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> Thanks,
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> Bob
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> _______________________________________________
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> >> >>>
> >> >>>
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