[nagdu] Telling the dog the destination

Thu Jul 28 12:30:25 UTC 2011

Boy, that Mitzi is smart!  Ben couldn't look out a window and figure out
where he is.  Well, maybe he could, but he'd be looking for the location
of bushes to pee on.  His smarts go some to my agenda, and some to his
own.
Tracy

> Yeah, I've done that with Mitzi a few times without realizing there was
> anybody else around, only to hear them cracking up from three feet
> away. /lol/ She really does prefer knowing where we're going, though.
> And it does turn out really well, better than if we waited for me to
> figure it out and tell her what to do at every turning point. She has
> gotten really good at looking ahead to find the safest route to where
> we're going, even it's a familiar route but something has changed. By
> now, I getting better and better at trusting her judgment even on a more
> abstract and pre-planning level because nearly every time I've
> questioned her over the past couple of years and have gone back to
> figure out what was going on -- or insisted on having it my way, she's
> turned out to be making the right -- by which I mean the safest --
> choice all along. I do think it's funny how whenever we go into a new
> shopping center or something like that, she will always show me where my
> usual key landmarks are. The restroom, the elevator, and Starbuck's (or
> coffee shop, although sometimes it seems she can tell the difference...
> Or is it that I can sort of tell the Starbuck's sounds and smells and
> have passed that on to her.? Who knows how she does it? I used to think
> I was maybe being too overindulgent to let her look out of upper story
> windows in unfamiliar buildings until I finally noticed how consistently
> she could find her way to the right spot even if we ended up going out
> of a different entrance. Or if I got turned around and asked her to find
> the door... She would stop at windows she could see out of and stare
> intently, then suddenly ship into action and off we would, poodle head
> and tail high with newfound confidence... Handler's brow furrowed with
> puzzlement and a general sense of being lost. /lol/ After the fourth or
> fifth time, though... I don't care if dogs are officially incapable of
> looking out a second or third story window and figuring out where they
> are and where to go from what they see. If she wants to take a bit of a
> break to look out the window, then that is fine by me.  /lol/ Whatever
> is happening in her poodly brain is beyond me, but if all the break does
> is give her a chance to regroup and regain her confidence, it works and
> we get where we need to go without a lot of wandering about in strange
> buildings while I get over my pride enough to knock on someone's door to
> ask. /lol/
>
> Like you say, the more you now, the more you have left to learn. I've
> noticed that by paying attention to make sure I don't get too dependent
> on her way of finding things and figuring out safe routes, that I've
> actually gotten better at cane O&M, although I really have to
> concentrate when I go out to work on that. The time/distance changes
> really throw me off, but I can still manage to do my planned route
> successfully even if I start feeling lost after the second turn. /lol/
> Glad you and Ben are having fun learning to find stuff together,
> too. /grin/
>
> Tami
>
> Ya Wed, 2011-07-27 at 13:50 -0400, Tracy Carcione wrote:
>> Hi Tami.
>> I only thought it was silly because I thought it was like, you know,
>> stepping out of the house and telling the dog to go to the bank, like
>> that
>> dumb old stereotype of what we guide dog users do.  But really it makes
>> perfect sense to give the dog a clue about which of several options I
>> want
>> to take.  Even though I still feel silly saying enthusiastically "We're
>> going to the gym!"
>>
>> Sorry to hear Daisy's hips are starting to give out.  She sounds like
>> quite a gal.  Loved the story about her scaring off the thunderstorm.
>> Tracy
>>
>> > Tracy,
>> >
>> > Any time! I think it's pretty silly, too, but if it works... Glad to
>> > know someone else has a dog that can follow an itinerary. /grin/
>> >
>> > Tami
>> >
>> > On Wed, 2011-07-27 at 12:01 -0400, Tracy Carcione wrote:
>> >> Hi Bob.
>> >> Congrats on your new partnership!
>> >> When I have a new dog, I try to be patient and encourage him to
>> figure
>> >> out
>> >> problems.  I think it helps build initiative.
>> >> I've had guide dogs for more than 30 years now, but I decided to try
>> >> something Tami Kinney does, telling the dog where I want to go
>> sometime
>> >> before we get there.  I always thought that was silly, but it
>> actually
>> >> seems to help Ben make right choices, or at least not hesitate by
>> every
>> >> possibility.  We go to several stores down on our main street, and I
>> >> tell
>> >> Ben which one we want maybe 20-50 yards before we come to the first
>> one.
>> >> If I've told Ben we're going to the diner, he'll take a different
>> line
>> >> on
>> >> the sidewalk and breeze right past the gym.  Then, when we get to the
>> >> diner, which I have been telling him "Inside diner", he goes right to
>> it
>> >> and I say "Diner!"  with much happiness.  You might try it--tell Nick
>> >> where you want to go, like "office", and direct him there, then say
>> >> "office" a couple times in a happy way.  It won't hurt, and it might
>> >> help.
>> >> Thanks Tami!  We live and learn.
>> >> Tracy
>> >>
>> >> > Good Afternoon folks,
>> >> >
>> >> > I've found the comments resulting from my inquiry of a couple of
>> >> days
>> >> > ago
>> >> > very interesting and the varied  perspectives have been helpful.
>> My
>> >> > reason
>> >> > for asking about canes is that I'd like something relatively light,
>> >> > perhaps
>> >> > collapsible, in order to solve occasional problems of orientation
>> >> > especially
>> >> > in instances in which Nick encounters and obstruction and seems
>> unable
>> >> to
>> >> > figure out how best to get me around it or when we overshoot a
>> >> turn or
>> >> > when he takes a wrong intersecting sidewalk and I need to help him
>> >> > reorient.
>> >> > I recognize the need for a great deal of trust in the dog and this
>> was
>> >> > initially something of a challenge during my training but my
>> >> confidence in
>> >> > him is growing daily.  He does, however, make mistakes some of
>> which I
>> >> > contribute to and since he doesn't always know where I intend to go
>> I
>> >> > recognize that there are times when I will need to give helpful
>> >> > instructions. Right now we're working on what will become routine
>> >> routes
>> >> > to
>> >> > work and on the campus where I work and there are lots of walks
>> that
>> >> > intersect that confuse him.  I'm learning to give him time to work
>> >> things
>> >> > out for hmself but there are some things he can't work out because
>> he
>> >> > doesn't know where I need or want to go.  I'm confident that with a
>> >> GPS
>> >> > and
>> >> > some kind of light cane there will come a time when I can go almost
>> >> > anywhere.  Thanks again for the helpful comments.
>> >> >
>> >> > Bob
>> >> >
>> >> >        - Original Message -----
>> >> > From: "Pickrell, Rebecca M (TASC)" <REBECCA.PICKRELL at tasc.com>
>> >> > To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
>> >> Users'"
>> >> > <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> >> > Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2011 10:33 AM
>> >> > Subject: Re: [nagdu] Returned From The Seeing Eye
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >> No, no, you don't need to know your neighborhood to have good cane
>> >> >> skills,
>> >> >> you need to be able to problem solve. That's what Bob?? is doing.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> -----Original Message-----
>> >> >> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>> On
>> >> >> Behalf
>> >> >> Of dmgina
>> >> >> Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2011 11:30 AM
>> >> >> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
>> Users
>> >> >> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Returned From The Seeing Eye
>> >> >>
>> >> >> When I got my first dog it was mandatory to know my area. If I had
>> >> not,
>> >> >> I
>> >> >> would have not gotten my dog.
>> >> >> If it is required to have good cane skills, then you need to know
>> >> your
>> >> >> neighboorhod.
>> >> >> Dar
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Sent from my iPhone
>> >> >>
>> >> >> On Jul 26, 2011, at 6:53 AM, "Pickrell, Rebecca M (TASC)"
>> >> >> <REBECCA.PICKRELL at tasc.com> wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >>> Maybe it's me but I found the "I hope you know your neighborhood"
>> >> >>> comment
>> >> >>> a bit insulting.  Even if he doesn't, for any number of reasons
>> so
>> >> >>> what?
>> >> >>> We all must learn new things all the time.
>> >> >>> To answer the question, you can heel your dog and use a cane when
>> >> you
>> >> >>> want to check things out.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> -----Original Message-----
>> >> >>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>> On
>> >> >>> Behalf Of dmgina
>> >> >>> Sent: Sunday, July 24, 2011 10:13 PM
>> >> >>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
>> Users
>> >> >>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Returned From The Seeing Eye
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> Dar here,
>> >> >>> Welcome home.
>> >> >>> One of the concerns I would have if you use a cane all the time,
>> is
>> >> >>> your
>> >> >>> dog will become sloppy on the job.
>> >> >>> Since you are trying to figure out the problen not letting the
>> dog
>> >> do
>> >> >>> what he is trained to do.
>> >> >>> Deciding what is best, and you trusting the dog.
>> >> >>> I hope you know your neighborhood?
>> >> >>> Dar
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> Sent from my iPhone
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> On Jul 24, 2011, at 6:30 PM, Robert Martin
>> <robert.martin at cfu.net>
>> >> >>> wrote:
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>> HI,
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> Late on Thursday afternoon I returned to Iowa from three and a
>> half
>> >> >>>> weeks at The Seeing Eye In New Jersey.  I am now the partner of
>> a
>> >> >>>> sixty-pound Golden Retriever named Nick who is a very mellow and
>> >> >>>> exceptionally friendly dog who also seems to be a very good
>> worker.
>> >> >>>> If
>> >> >>>> I learn to be as effective as he is, we should have a wonderful
>> >> >>>> partnership.  We have lots of learning and getting acquainted
>> >> before
>> >> >>>> us
>> >> >>>> but I think we're well matched and well trained.  I was
>> enormously
>> >> >>>> impressed with the instructors and the staff at the Seeing Eye.
>> >> Like
>> >> >>>> everyone I was apprehensive but quickly realized that I was in
>> >> >>>> excellent
>> >> >>>> hands and although I made this decision somewhat later than do
>> most
>> >> >>>> people, I do not regret it for one minute.  I will probably be
>> >> calling
>> >> >>>> on all of you for advice from time to time and I'm confident I
>> will
>> >> >>>> continue to benefit from the experiences of all of you.
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> For the moment I have one questions.  It's quite an adjustment
>> to
>> >> move
>> >> >>>> from the kind of information one receives from a cane to that
>> which
>> >> >>>> one
>> >> >>>> receives from a dog.  I was told   that there is sometimes a
>> >> benefit
>> >> >>>> from coupling the work of the dog with the occasional use of a
>> cane
>> >> to
>> >> >>>> figure out what kind of obstacles  the dog is trying to cope
>> with
>> >> or
>> >> >>>> to
>> >> >>>> get a better sense of orientation to an unfamiliar site.  Can
>> any
>> >> of
>> >> >>>> you
>> >> >>>> suggest what kind of cane you may occasionally use in
>> conjunction
>> >> with
>> >> >>>> your dog?  Does a good collapsible cane work well for such
>> >> situations
>> >> >>>> where a cane might be appropriate?  Any advice will be much
>> >> >>>> appreciated.
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> Thanks,
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> Bob
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> _______________________________________________
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>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>
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