[nagdu] discrimination by taxi and othertransportation providers

Marion Gwizdala blind411 at verizon.net
Sat Jul 30 21:49:01 UTC 2011


Cheryl,
    the "national law" is the Americans with Disabilities Act! Taxicabs are 
public accommodations under title III of the Act.

Fraternally yours,
Marion


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "cheryl echevarria" <cherylandmaxx at hotmail.com>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2011 2:12 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] discrimination by taxi and othertransportation 
providers


> per taxi cab laws if I remember if you are a legal even if you are 
> independent car service, you must follow the laws, and you can loose your 
> hack license if refused to take a person with a disability as well as with 
> a guide dog.
>
> If there isn't, then as NAGDU we should have a national law.
>
> Leading the Way in Independent Travel!
>
> Cheryl Echevarria
> http://www.echevarriatravel.com<http://www.echevarriatravel.com/>
> 631-456-5394
> reservations at echevarriatravel.com<mailto:reservations at echevarriatravel.com>
>
> Affiliated as an Independent Contractor with Montrose Travel 
> CST-1018299-10
>
> Affiliated as an Independent Contractor with Absolute Cruise & Travel, 
> Inc.
>  ----- Original Message ----- 
>  From: Julie Phillipson<mailto:jbrew48 at verizon.net>
>  To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog 
> Users<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>  Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2011 1:51 PM
>  Subject: Re: [nagdu] discrimination by taxi and othertransportation 
> providers
>
>
>  I don't use a cab very often any more for various reasons, but when I 
> have
>  well I have done it both ways and I think it is easier when you don't 
> tell
>  them.  One time though many years ago I was going out for dinner with
>  someone and we both had a dog.  I used this company regularly at the 
> time.
>  The cab came and when we went out he refused to take us.  I immediately
>  called the company and within 10 minutes another cab came.  I remember I 
> was
>  pretty upset with them and didn't hold it back from them knowing it!  The
>  dispatcher new me and took care of it pretty quickly but I don't know 
> what
>  happened with the driver if anything.  Some independent cab drivers use
>  their own cars and when the dispatcher from another company puts a call 
> out
>  it goes out on the radio and the independent guy takes it.  They think 
> since
>  it is their own personal car that they can refuse you.  If it is a 
> company
>  car they don't care as much!
>  Julie Phillipson and Viggo
>  ----- Original Message ----- 
>  From: "Marion Gwizdala" 
> <blind411 at verizon.net<mailto:blind411 at verizon.net>>
>  To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>  <nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>>
>  Sent: Friday, July 29, 2011 9:00 PM
>  Subject: Re: [nagdu] discrimination by taxi and other transportation
>  providers
>
>
>  > Dear All,
>  >    Let me share with you an actual experience I had. I am a 
> professional
>  > entertainer, a solo act generally necessitating the use of a cab. Many 
> of
>  > the cabbies in my area with the company I usually use, know me and like
>  > transporting me because I was a cab driver when I was sighted and going 
> to
>  > school. I say this because I know the importance of a good tip. BTW, 
> the
>  > word "tip" is actually an acronym that stands for "to insure 
> promptness".
>  >    One morning after a gig (about 3:00 am) I called for a cab. I did 
> not
>  > tell them I had a dog; however, my cell number is associated with my 
> call
>  > and there is a file on everyone who calls for a cab with some 
> information,
>  > such as the person's name and address. Well, my file apparently 
> indicated
>  > that I had a service dog. I waited an unusual length of time for a cab
>  > home. When the cabbie arrived, he said he came in from the airport 
> (about
>  > 45 minutes from where I was) because no one was bidding on the ride. He
>  > told me the dispatcher was asking, "Anyone in zone 58 willing to 
> transport
>  > a dog?" The cabbie said he knew it was me and, since no one else bid on
>  > it, he knew it was worth the trip in to pick me up.
>  >    I called the company the following day and filed a complaint with 
> the
>  > county Public Transportation Comission, alleging I was discriminated
>  > against by the company because my file was flagged as having a service
>  > dog, resulting in an unequal benefit. The ADA states
>  >
>  > "
>  > (ii) Participation in unequal benefit. It shall be discriminatory to
>  > afford an individual or class of individuals, on the basis of a 
> disability
>  > or disabilities
>  >
>  > of such individual or class, directly, or through contractual, 
> licensing,
>  > or other arrangements with the opportunity to participate in or benefit
>  > from a
>  >
>  > good, service, facility, privilege, advantage, or accommodation that is
>  > not equal to that afforded to other individuals." (
>  >
>  > 42 USC 12182.)
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  > Whether the place of public accommodation is a taxicab, hotel, health 
> care
>  > facility, restaurant, or any other place, the presence of your service
>  > animal is irrelevant. By notifying them in advance that you will be
>  > accompanied by a service animal, you passively communicate that this is
>  > something they need to know about and, therefore, that there is 
> something
>  > they need to do. Not knowing what that "something" might be, they will
>  > certainly make something up, setting you up for discrimination.
>  > Furthermore, alerting them in advance sends the message that this is
>  > proper protocol and, when someone does not provide advance notice, sets 
> up
>  > an adversarial situation.
>  >
>  >    I pose the following question on this topic for debate: What is the
>  > reason for giving advance notice that you will be accompanied by a 
> service
>  > dog? I ask this question in an effort to offer a challenge to this
>  > practice. I promise my challenges will be respectful and dignified,
>  > definitely not attacking. This is a great issue for lively, respectful
>  > debate!
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  > Fraternally yours,
>  >
>  > Marion Gwizdala
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  > ----- Original Message ----- 
>  > From: "Michael Hingson" 
> <mhingson at sbcglobal.net<mailto:mhingson at sbcglobal.net>>
>  > To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
>  > <nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>>
>  > Sent: Friday, July 29, 2011 7:58 PM
>  > Subject: [nagdu] discrimination by taxi and other transportation 
> providers
>  >
>  >
>  > All,
>  >
>  > I am with Marion on this.  Although some may feel that there is no 
> wrong
>  > answer I think that at some point we need to take a stand.  I 
> personally
>  > have found many instances when I gave advanced notification either I 
> had
>  > long delays, staff sent a huge van to take me instead of a taxi which 
> in
>  > turn caused delays, or other rules about how my dog was suppose to be
>  > transported were made up.
>  >
>  > The law is clear that we and our guides are to be treated the same as 
> any
>  > other passenger.  There is no excuse for any company providing
>  > transportation to the public insisting on advanced notice for our 
> guides.
>  > There is no excuse for any such company permitting any of its drivers 
> or
>  > pilots to discriminate against us.
>  >
>  > At the same time I do understand why some on this list take a different
>  > tact.  While I will not say advanced notice is wrong I would encourage
>  > everyone to work toward taking a strong stance.  If we do not company
>  > personnel will never learn that discriminating against us is wrong.
>  >
>  >
>  > Best,
>  >
>  >
>  > Michael Hingson
>  >
>  > The Michael Hingson Group, INC.
>  > "Speaking with Vision"
>  > Michael Hingson, President
>  > (415) 827-4084
>  > info at michaelhingson.com<mailto:info at michaelhingson.com>
>  > To learn more about my upcoming book, speaking topics and speaking
>  > availability please visit 
> www.michaelhingson.com<http://www.michaelhingson.com/>
>  > Thunder Dog is now available for early ordering on Amazon!!!
>  > 
> http://www.amazon.com/Thunder-Dog-Blind-Triumph-Ground/dp/140020304X/ref=sr<http://www.amazon.com/Thunder-Dog-Blind-Triumph-Ground/dp/140020304X/ref=sr>_
>  > 1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1289090352&sr=1-3
>  >
>  >
>  > for info on the new KNFB Reader Mobile, visit:
>  > 
> http://knfbreader.michaelhingson.com<http://knfbreader.michaelhingson.com/>
>  >
>  >
>  > -----Original Message-----
>  > From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> 
> [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
>  > Of Marion Gwizdala
>  > Sent: Friday, July 29, 2011 4:05 PM
>  > To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>  > Subject: Re: [nagdu] Re Guide Dog and taxis
>  >
>  > Gary and all,
>  >    I generally advise that one not give advance notice that we will be
>  > traveling with a guide dog. The presence of the service dog is 
> irrelevant
>  > to
>  >
>  > whether or not they transport you. If the dispatcher broadcasts, "I'm
>  > looking for someone willing to take a fare with a dog!" you may wait
>  > longer
>  > for a ride than if they didn't know. This sets you up for the type of
>  > discrimination known as an unequal benefit. I have dealt with several
>  > people
>  >
>  > who gave advance notice and regretted it because of the long wait 
> times.
>  > JMHO!
>  >
>  > Fraternally yours,
>  > Marion
>  >
>  >
>  > ----- Original Message ----- 
>  > From: "GARY STEEVES" 
> <rainshadowmusic at shaw.ca<mailto:rainshadowmusic at shaw.ca>>
>  > To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>  > <nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>>
>  > Sent: Friday, July 29, 2011 6:13 PM
>  > Subject: Re: [nagdu] Re Guide Dog and taxis
>  >
>  >
>  >>
>  >> Hi:
>  >>
>  >> Generally, I don't have a problem just telling the company I have a 
> dog
>  >> since, if there is the potential for an issue this should remove it. 
> The
>  >> issue I have and am going to talk to my current cab company about is 
> that
>  >> they have one letter symbols for things. I learned this two weeks ago
>  >> when
>  >
>  >> three trips in a row I got a van cab. I found out that my file had a V
>  >> for
>  >
>  >> van and A for animal. I think they need to add another symbol that
>  >> represents service dogs since an animal is a bit vague. I got cabs who
>  >> don't mind dogs but sometimes I think they believe it is a pet,
>  >> especially
>  >
>  >> cuz it's a poodle which they never see as guide dogs. Also, being that 
> we
>  >> are getting picked up right in front of my house and I've usually just
>  >> been walking bogart around the block for his morning relief, he is 
> often
>  >> not in harness. the harness is in  my hand. However, why I use the 
> same
>  >> company all the time is so that many drivers get to know me and often
>  >> show
>  >
>  >> up with the front passenger seat put way forward to
>  >> give Bogart more room and cute things like that.
>  >>
>  >> Gary
>  >>
>  >> ----- Original Message -----
>  >> From: Tami Kinney 
> <tamara.8024 at comcast.net<mailto:tamara.8024 at comcast.net>>
>  >> Date: Friday, July 29, 2011 2:34 pm
>  >> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Re Guide Dog Forced to Ride in Trunk
>  >> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>  >>
>  >>> Lyn,
>  >>>
>  >>> Well said. When I lived nearer to downtown, I would just tell the
>  >>> dispatcher about the dog, although it seems they do have a note about
>  >>> her attached to my number. This actually worked in my favor
>  >>> there, where
>  >>> you couldn't swing a cat without hitting one of their cabs. Now I'm
>  >>> still in the Portland Metro area, but apparently this does not 
> prevent
>  >>> me living in the boonies as far as the cab companies are
>  >>> concerned. So
>  >>> I've learned to just fail to mention anything at all about a dog or
>  >>> being blind or anything because that does seem to increase the
>  >>> odds a
>  >>> cab will get out here eventually. I've tried a couple of other
>  >>> companiesthat supposedly serve this area, but... Sigh. Anyway,
>  >>> if they want to
>  >>> drive all the way out here and then refuse to take my dog, I
>  >>> guess I'll
>  >>> be putting up a big fuss about that, won't I? /evil grin/
>  >>>
>  >>> Then again, what with having a private driver and on-demand car
>  >>> serviceright here, I guess I won't be giving many cabby's an
>  >>> opportunity to
>  >>> refuse me a ride because of my dog.  Ain't that just too
>  >>> bad for
>  >>> me. /lol/
>  >>>
>  >>> Either way, with cabs or hotel reservations or whatever, I tend
>  >>> to do
>  >>> what I believe is most likely to achieve the best results when
>  >>> it comes
>  >>> to deciding whether to mention the dog beforehand or not. Which
>  >>> does not
>  >>> mean I always make the right guess, but I have had few hassles, so
>  >>> that's what matters to me. /smile/
>  >>>
>  >>> Tami
>  >>>
>  >>> On Thu, 2011-07-28 at 12:42 -0700, Lyn Gwizdak wrote:
>  >>> > I agree with you, Bibi.  I will tell the cab dispach that
>  >>> I have a guide dog
>  >>> > and to just send a driver who has no problem with a dog.
>  >>> this way, I get my
>  >>> > cab and no BSing with the driver.  People do what you
>  >>> feel is best for you.
>  >>> > There's no right or wrong in this matter.
>  >>> >
>  >>> > Lyn and Landon
>  >>> > ----- Original Message ----- 
>  >>> > From: "Criminal Justice Major Extraordinaire"
>  >>> <orleans24 at comcast.net<mailto:orleans24 at comcast.net>>> To: "NAGDU 
> Mailing List,the National
>  >>> Association of Guide Dog Users"
>  >>> > <nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>>
>  >>> > Sent: Saturday, July 23, 2011 5:54 PM
>  >>> > Subject: Re: [nagdu] Re Guide Dog Forced to Ride in Trunk
>  >>> >
>  >>> >
>  >>> > > Hi, Brenda,
>  >>> > > I remember when attending a couple of guide dog schools and
>  >>> not hearing
>  >>> > > one word or thing mentioned about if being asked by a cab
>  >>> driver to put
>  >>> > > the dog in a trunk of the car.
>  >>> > > Thankfully, I've not had any experiences with that and
>  >>> hopefully with my
>  >>> > > fourth guide, that won't happen either.
>  >>> > > I know many people here won't agree with what I'm about to
>  >>> say here, but
>  >>> > > here it goes...
>  >>> > > There were times I'd just go ahead and let the cab company
>  >>> know that I
>  >>> > > have a guide dog and it did help and minimize a possible problem.
>  >>> > > In the same aspect, I'd get a cab quickly too.
>  >>> > > I only would do this during stressful situations to avoid
>  >>> getting
>  >>> > > frustrated around Odie.
>  >>> > > He is one sensitive boy who would pick up on my anxiety
>  >>> rather quickly.
>  >>> > > If I knew where that dog handler was living here in
>  >>> Colorado, I'd gladly
>  >>> > > help her out or at least be willing to give her some
>  >>> encouragement and
>  >>> > > advice on dealing with situations like that.
>  >>> > > unfortunately, I have no idea if she lives in Denver or
>  >>> another city close
>  >>> > > by to me.
>  >>> > > If someone told me to put Odie in the trunk, I'd happily say
>  >>> right on tthe
>  >>> > > spot, "Would you like it if I just rolled you up and stuck
>  >>> you in that
>  >>> > > area?"
>  >>> > > I know. I'm a tough person when it comes to stuff like that.
>  >>> > > *Smiles*
>  >>> > > Bibi and Odie
>  >>> > > the retired one
>  >>> > >
>  >>> > > _______________________________________________
>  >>> > > nagdu mailing list
>  >>> > > nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>  >>> > > 
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org>
>  >>> > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>  >>> info for
>  >>> > > nagdu:
>  >>> > >
>  >>>
>  > 
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/linda.gwizdak%40cox.n<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/linda.gwizdak%40cox.n>
>  > et
>  >>> >
>  >>> >
>  >>> > _______________________________________________
>  >>> > nagdu mailing list
>  >>> > nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>  >>> > 
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org>
>  >>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>  >>> info for nagdu:
>  >>> >
>  >>>
>  > 
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/tamara.8024%40comcast<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/tamara.8024%40comcast>
>  > .net
>  >>>
>  >>> _______________________________________________
>  >>> nagdu mailing list
>  >>> nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>  >>> 
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org>
>  >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>  >>> info for nagdu:
>  >>>
>  > 
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/rainshadowmusic%40sha<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/rainshadowmusic%40sha>
>  > w.ca
>  >>>
>  >> _______________________________________________
>  >> nagdu mailing list
>  >> nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>  >> 
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org>
>  >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>  >> nagdu:
>  >>
>  > 
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/blind411%40verizon.ne<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/blind411%40verizon.ne>
>  > t
>  >
>  >
>  > _______________________________________________
>  > nagdu mailing list
>  > nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>  > 
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org>
>  > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>  > nagdu:
>  > 
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/mhingson%40sbcglobal<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/mhingson%40sbcglobal>.
>  > net
>  >
>  >
>  > _______________________________________________
>  > nagdu mailing list
>  > nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>  > 
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org>
>  > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>  > nagdu:
>  > 
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/blind411%40verizon.net<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/blind411%40verizon.net>
>  >
>  > _______________________________________________
>  > nagdu mailing list
>  > nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>  > 
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org>
>  > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>  > nagdu:
>  > 
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/jbrew48%40verizon.net<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/jbrew48%40verizon.net>
>
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  nagdu mailing list
>  nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> 
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org>
>  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nagdu:
> 
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/cherylandmaxx%40hotmail.com<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/cherylandmaxx%40hotmail.com>
> _______________________________________________
> nagdu mailing list
> nagdu at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nagdu:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/blind411%40verizon.net 





More information about the NAGDU mailing list