[nagdu] discrimination by taxi and other transportationproviders
Anita
abbrown6211 at charter.net
Sat Jul 30 23:05:43 UTC 2011
Marion, I am interested in attending the upcoming teleconference "Service
Animals in Places of public accommodation" on Sunday August 21. Could you
please send the information on how to register.
Thanks,
Anita
e-mail: abbrown6211 at charter.net
facebook.: anitabb1 at facebook.com
skype: anita.brown27
----- Original Message -----
From: "Marion Gwizdala" <blind411 at verizon.net>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2011 5:45 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] discrimination by taxi and other
transportationproviders
> Anita,
> You might want to plan on attending our upcoming teleconference
> "Service Animals in Places of public accommodation" on Sunday August 21.
> The seats are filling up quickly. We have 40 registrants in less than one
> week!
>
> Fraternally yours,
> Marion
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Anita" <abbrown6211 at charter.net>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2011 12:12 PM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] discrimination by taxi and other
> transportationproviders
>
>
>> Hello Everyone, I am very interested in reading all of your responses to
>> Marion's question. I have applied for my first guide dog an I know
>> that once I return home with the dog I will have some walls that I will
>> need to bring down. So therefore I am very open to read how all of you
>> react to different situations.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Anita
>>
>> e-mail: abbrown6211 at charter.net
>> facebook.: anitabb1 at facebook.com
>> skype: anita.brown27
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Marion Gwizdala" <blind411 at verizon.net>
>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Friday, July 29, 2011 9:00 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] discrimination by taxi and other
>> transportationproviders
>>
>>
>>> Dear All,
>>> Let me share with you an actual experience I had. I am a professional
>>> entertainer, a solo act generally necessitating the use of a cab. Many
>>> of the cabbies in my area with the company I usually use, know me and
>>> like transporting me because I was a cab driver when I was sighted and
>>> going to school. I say this because I know the importance of a good tip.
>>> BTW, the word "tip" is actually an acronym that stands for "to insure
>>> promptness".
>>> One morning after a gig (about 3:00 am) I called for a cab. I did not
>>> tell them I had a dog; however, my cell number is associated with my
>>> call and there is a file on everyone who calls for a cab with some
>>> information, such as the person's name and address. Well, my file
>>> apparently indicated that I had a service dog. I waited an unusual
>>> length of time for a cab home. When the cabbie arrived, he said he came
>>> in from the airport (about 45 minutes from where I was) because no one
>>> was bidding on the ride. He told me the dispatcher was asking, "Anyone
>>> in zone 58 willing to transport a dog?" The cabbie said he knew it was
>>> me and, since no one else bid on it, he knew it was worth the trip in to
>>> pick me up.
>>> I called the company the following day and filed a complaint with the
>>> county Public Transportation Comission, alleging I was discriminated
>>> against by the company because my file was flagged as having a service
>>> dog, resulting in an unequal benefit. The ADA states
>>>
>>> "
>>> (ii) Participation in unequal benefit. It shall be discriminatory to
>>> afford an individual or class of individuals, on the basis of a
>>> disability or disabilities
>>>
>>> of such individual or class, directly, or through contractual,
>>> licensing, or other arrangements with the opportunity to participate in
>>> or benefit from a
>>>
>>> good, service, facility, privilege, advantage, or accommodation that is
>>> not equal to that afforded to other individuals." (
>>>
>>> 42 USC 12182.)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Whether the place of public accommodation is a taxicab, hotel, health
>>> care facility, restaurant, or any other place, the presence of your
>>> service animal is irrelevant. By notifying them in advance that you will
>>> be accompanied by a service animal, you passively communicate that this
>>> is something they need to know about and, therefore, that there is
>>> something they need to do. Not knowing what that "something" might be,
>>> they will certainly make something up, setting you up for
>>> discrimination. Furthermore, alerting them in advance sends the message
>>> that this is proper protocol and, when someone does not provide advance
>>> notice, sets up an adversarial situation.
>>>
>>> I pose the following question on this topic for debate: What is the
>>> reason for giving advance notice that you will be accompanied by a
>>> service dog? I ask this question in an effort to offer a challenge to
>>> this practice. I promise my challenges will be respectful and dignified,
>>> definitely not attacking. This is a great issue for lively, respectful
>>> debate!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Fraternally yours,
>>>
>>> Marion Gwizdala
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Michael Hingson" <mhingson at sbcglobal.net>
>>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Friday, July 29, 2011 7:58 PM
>>> Subject: [nagdu] discrimination by taxi and other transportation
>>> providers
>>>
>>>
>>> All,
>>>
>>> I am with Marion on this. Although some may feel that there is no wrong
>>> answer I think that at some point we need to take a stand. I personally
>>> have found many instances when I gave advanced notification either I had
>>> long delays, staff sent a huge van to take me instead of a taxi which in
>>> turn caused delays, or other rules about how my dog was suppose to be
>>> transported were made up.
>>>
>>> The law is clear that we and our guides are to be treated the same as
>>> any
>>> other passenger. There is no excuse for any company providing
>>> transportation to the public insisting on advanced notice for our
>>> guides.
>>> There is no excuse for any such company permitting any of its drivers or
>>> pilots to discriminate against us.
>>>
>>> At the same time I do understand why some on this list take a different
>>> tact. While I will not say advanced notice is wrong I would encourage
>>> everyone to work toward taking a strong stance. If we do not company
>>> personnel will never learn that discriminating against us is wrong.
>>>
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>>
>>> Michael Hingson
>>>
>>> The Michael Hingson Group, INC.
>>> "Speaking with Vision"
>>> Michael Hingson, President
>>> (415) 827-4084
>>> info at michaelhingson.com
>>> To learn more about my upcoming book, speaking topics and speaking
>>> availability please visit www.michaelhingson.com
>>> Thunder Dog is now available for early ordering on Amazon!!!
>>> http://www.amazon.com/Thunder-Dog-Blind-Triumph-Ground/dp/140020304X/ref=sr_
>>> 1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1289090352&sr=1-3
>>>
>>>
>>> for info on the new KNFB Reader Mobile, visit:
>>> http://knfbreader.michaelhingson.com
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>> Behalf
>>> Of Marion Gwizdala
>>> Sent: Friday, July 29, 2011 4:05 PM
>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Re Guide Dog and taxis
>>>
>>> Gary and all,
>>> I generally advise that one not give advance notice that we will be
>>> traveling with a guide dog. The presence of the service dog is
>>> irrelevant to
>>>
>>> whether or not they transport you. If the dispatcher broadcasts, "I'm
>>> looking for someone willing to take a fare with a dog!" you may wait
>>> longer
>>> for a ride than if they didn't know. This sets you up for the type of
>>> discrimination known as an unequal benefit. I have dealt with several
>>> people
>>>
>>> who gave advance notice and regretted it because of the long wait times.
>>> JMHO!
>>>
>>> Fraternally yours,
>>> Marion
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "GARY STEEVES" <rainshadowmusic at shaw.ca>
>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Friday, July 29, 2011 6:13 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Re Guide Dog and taxis
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hi:
>>>>
>>>> Generally, I don't have a problem just telling the company I have a dog
>>>> since, if there is the potential for an issue this should remove it.
>>>> The
>>>> issue I have and am going to talk to my current cab company about is
>>>> that
>>>> they have one letter symbols for things. I learned this two weeks ago
>>>> when
>>>
>>>> three trips in a row I got a van cab. I found out that my file had a V
>>>> for
>>>
>>>> van and A for animal. I think they need to add another symbol that
>>>> represents service dogs since an animal is a bit vague. I got cabs who
>>>> don't mind dogs but sometimes I think they believe it is a pet,
>>>> especially
>>>
>>>> cuz it's a poodle which they never see as guide dogs. Also, being that
>>>> we
>>>> are getting picked up right in front of my house and I've usually just
>>>> been walking bogart around the block for his morning relief, he is
>>>> often
>>>> not in harness. the harness is in my hand. However, why I use the same
>>>> company all the time is so that many drivers get to know me and often
>>>> show
>>>
>>>> up with the front passenger seat put way forward to
>>>> give Bogart more room and cute things like that.
>>>>
>>>> Gary
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: Tami Kinney <tamara.8024 at comcast.net>
>>>> Date: Friday, July 29, 2011 2:34 pm
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Re Guide Dog Forced to Ride in Trunk
>>>> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>
>>>>> Lyn,
>>>>>
>>>>> Well said. When I lived nearer to downtown, I would just tell the
>>>>> dispatcher about the dog, although it seems they do have a note about
>>>>> her attached to my number. This actually worked in my favor
>>>>> there, where
>>>>> you couldn't swing a cat without hitting one of their cabs. Now I'm
>>>>> still in the Portland Metro area, but apparently this does not prevent
>>>>> me living in the boonies as far as the cab companies are
>>>>> concerned. So
>>>>> I've learned to just fail to mention anything at all about a dog or
>>>>> being blind or anything because that does seem to increase the
>>>>> odds a
>>>>> cab will get out here eventually. I've tried a couple of other
>>>>> companiesthat supposedly serve this area, but... Sigh. Anyway,
>>>>> if they want to
>>>>> drive all the way out here and then refuse to take my dog, I
>>>>> guess I'll
>>>>> be putting up a big fuss about that, won't I? /evil grin/
>>>>>
>>>>> Then again, what with having a private driver and on-demand car
>>>>> serviceright here, I guess I won't be giving many cabby's an
>>>>> opportunity to
>>>>> refuse me a ride because of my dog. Ain't that just too
>>>>> bad for
>>>>> me. /lol/
>>>>>
>>>>> Either way, with cabs or hotel reservations or whatever, I tend
>>>>> to do
>>>>> what I believe is most likely to achieve the best results when
>>>>> it comes
>>>>> to deciding whether to mention the dog beforehand or not. Which
>>>>> does not
>>>>> mean I always make the right guess, but I have had few hassles, so
>>>>> that's what matters to me. /smile/
>>>>>
>>>>> Tami
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, 2011-07-28 at 12:42 -0700, Lyn Gwizdak wrote:
>>>>> > I agree with you, Bibi. I will tell the cab dispach that
>>>>> I have a guide dog
>>>>> > and to just send a driver who has no problem with a dog.
>>>>> this way, I get my
>>>>> > cab and no BSing with the driver. People do what you
>>>>> feel is best for you.
>>>>> > There's no right or wrong in this matter.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Lyn and Landon
>>>>> > ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> > From: "Criminal Justice Major Extraordinaire"
>>>>> <orleans24 at comcast.net>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National
>>>>> Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>>>> > <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> > Sent: Saturday, July 23, 2011 5:54 PM
>>>>> > Subject: Re: [nagdu] Re Guide Dog Forced to Ride in Trunk
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> > > Hi, Brenda,
>>>>> > > I remember when attending a couple of guide dog schools and
>>>>> not hearing
>>>>> > > one word or thing mentioned about if being asked by a cab
>>>>> driver to put
>>>>> > > the dog in a trunk of the car.
>>>>> > > Thankfully, I've not had any experiences with that and
>>>>> hopefully with my
>>>>> > > fourth guide, that won't happen either.
>>>>> > > I know many people here won't agree with what I'm about to
>>>>> say here, but
>>>>> > > here it goes...
>>>>> > > There were times I'd just go ahead and let the cab company
>>>>> know that I
>>>>> > > have a guide dog and it did help and minimize a possible problem.
>>>>> > > In the same aspect, I'd get a cab quickly too.
>>>>> > > I only would do this during stressful situations to avoid
>>>>> getting
>>>>> > > frustrated around Odie.
>>>>> > > He is one sensitive boy who would pick up on my anxiety
>>>>> rather quickly.
>>>>> > > If I knew where that dog handler was living here in
>>>>> Colorado, I'd gladly
>>>>> > > help her out or at least be willing to give her some
>>>>> encouragement and
>>>>> > > advice on dealing with situations like that.
>>>>> > > unfortunately, I have no idea if she lives in Denver or
>>>>> another city close
>>>>> > > by to me.
>>>>> > > If someone told me to put Odie in the trunk, I'd happily say
>>>>> right on tthe
>>>>> > > spot, "Would you like it if I just rolled you up and stuck
>>>>> you in that
>>>>> > > area?"
>>>>> > > I know. I'm a tough person when it comes to stuff like that.
>>>>> > > *Smiles*
>>>>> > > Bibi and Odie
>>>>> > > the retired one
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > > _______________________________________________
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>>> et
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
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