[nagdu] discrimination by taxi and other transportationproviders

Sean Moore sean.moore at mediacombb.net
Sat Jul 30 23:40:36 UTC 2011 

same here. not sure if my original email to Marion went out.


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Anita" <abbrown6211 at charter.net>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2011 7:05 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] discrimination by taxi and other 
transportationproviders


> Marion, I am interested in attending the upcoming teleconference "Service
> Animals in Places of public accommodation" on Sunday August 21.  Could you 
> please send the information on how to register.
>
> Thanks,
> Anita
>
> e-mail: abbrown6211 at charter.net
> facebook.: anitabb1 at facebook.com
> skype: anita.brown27
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Marion Gwizdala" <blind411 at verizon.net>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2011 5:45 PM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] discrimination by taxi and other 
> transportationproviders
>
>
>> Anita,
>>    You might want to plan on attending our upcoming teleconference 
>> "Service Animals in Places of public accommodation" on Sunday August 21. 
>> The seats are filling up quickly. We have 40 registrants in less than one 
>> week!
>>
>> Fraternally yours,
>> Marion
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Anita" <abbrown6211 at charter.net>
>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2011 12:12 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] discrimination by taxi and other 
>> transportationproviders
>>
>>
>>> Hello Everyone,  I am very interested in reading all of your responses 
>>> to Marion's     question.  I have applied for my first guide dog an I 
>>> know that once I return home with the dog I will have some walls that I 
>>> will need to bring down.  So therefore I am very open to read how all of 
>>> you react to different situations.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Anita
>>>
>>> e-mail: abbrown6211 at charter.net
>>> facebook.: anitabb1 at facebook.com
>>> skype: anita.brown27
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "Marion Gwizdala" <blind411 at verizon.net>
>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Friday, July 29, 2011 9:00 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] discrimination by taxi and other 
>>> transportationproviders
>>>
>>>
>>>> Dear All,
>>>>    Let me share with you an actual experience I had. I am a 
>>>> professional entertainer, a solo act generally necessitating the use of 
>>>> a cab. Many of the cabbies in my area with the company I usually use, 
>>>> know me and like transporting me because I was a cab driver when I was 
>>>> sighted and going to school. I say this because I know the importance 
>>>> of a good tip. BTW, the word "tip" is actually an acronym that stands 
>>>> for "to insure promptness".
>>>>    One morning after a gig (about 3:00 am) I called for a cab. I did 
>>>> not tell them I had a dog; however, my cell number is associated with 
>>>> my call and there is a file on everyone who calls for a cab with some 
>>>> information, such as the person's name and address. Well, my file 
>>>> apparently indicated that I had a service dog. I waited an unusual 
>>>> length of time for a cab home. When the cabbie arrived, he said he came 
>>>> in from the airport (about 45 minutes from where I was) because no one 
>>>> was bidding on the ride. He told me the dispatcher was asking, "Anyone 
>>>> in zone 58 willing to transport a dog?" The cabbie said he knew it was 
>>>> me and, since no one else bid on it, he knew it was worth the trip in 
>>>> to pick me up.
>>>>    I called the company the following day and filed a complaint with 
>>>> the county Public Transportation Comission, alleging I was 
>>>> discriminated against by the company because my file was flagged as 
>>>> having a service dog, resulting in an unequal benefit. The ADA states
>>>>
>>>> "
>>>> (ii) Participation in unequal benefit. It shall be discriminatory to 
>>>> afford an individual or class of individuals, on the basis of a 
>>>> disability or disabilities
>>>>
>>>> of such individual or class, directly, or through contractual, 
>>>> licensing, or other arrangements with the opportunity to participate in 
>>>> or benefit from a
>>>>
>>>> good, service, facility, privilege, advantage, or accommodation that is 
>>>> not equal to that afforded to other individuals." (
>>>>
>>>> 42 USC 12182.)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Whether the place of public accommodation is a taxicab, hotel, health 
>>>> care facility, restaurant, or any other place, the presence of your 
>>>> service animal is irrelevant. By notifying them in advance that you 
>>>> will be accompanied by a service animal, you passively communicate that 
>>>> this is something they need to know about and, therefore, that there is 
>>>> something they need to do. Not knowing what that "something" might be, 
>>>> they will certainly make something up, setting you up for 
>>>> discrimination. Furthermore, alerting them in advance sends the message 
>>>> that this is proper protocol and, when someone does not provide advance 
>>>> notice, sets up an adversarial situation.
>>>>
>>>>    I pose the following question on this topic for debate: What is the 
>>>> reason for giving advance notice that you will be accompanied by a 
>>>> service dog? I ask this question in an effort to offer a challenge to 
>>>> this practice. I promise my challenges will be respectful and 
>>>> dignified, definitely not attacking. This is a great issue for lively, 
>>>> respectful debate!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Fraternally yours,
>>>>
>>>> Marion Gwizdala
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>> From: "Michael Hingson" <mhingson at sbcglobal.net>
>>>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'" 
>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Friday, July 29, 2011 7:58 PM
>>>> Subject: [nagdu] discrimination by taxi and other transportation 
>>>> providers
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> All,
>>>>
>>>> I am with Marion on this.  Although some may feel that there is no 
>>>> wrong
>>>> answer I think that at some point we need to take a stand.  I 
>>>> personally
>>>> have found many instances when I gave advanced notification either I 
>>>> had
>>>> long delays, staff sent a huge van to take me instead of a taxi which 
>>>> in
>>>> turn caused delays, or other rules about how my dog was suppose to be
>>>> transported were made up.
>>>>
>>>> The law is clear that we and our guides are to be treated the same as 
>>>> any
>>>> other passenger.  There is no excuse for any company providing
>>>> transportation to the public insisting on advanced notice for our 
>>>> guides.
>>>> There is no excuse for any such company permitting any of its drivers 
>>>> or
>>>> pilots to discriminate against us.
>>>>
>>>> At the same time I do understand why some on this list take a different
>>>> tact.  While I will not say advanced notice is wrong I would encourage
>>>> everyone to work toward taking a strong stance.  If we do not company
>>>> personnel will never learn that discriminating against us is wrong.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Best,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Michael Hingson
>>>>
>>>> The Michael Hingson Group, INC.
>>>> "Speaking with Vision"
>>>> Michael Hingson, President
>>>> (415) 827-4084
>>>> info at michaelhingson.com
>>>> To learn more about my upcoming book, speaking topics and speaking
>>>> availability please visit www.michaelhingson.com
>>>> Thunder Dog is now available for early ordering on Amazon!!!
>>>> http://www.amazon.com/Thunder-Dog-Blind-Triumph-Ground/dp/140020304X/ref=sr_
>>>> 1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1289090352&sr=1-3
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> for info on the new KNFB Reader Mobile, visit:
>>>> http://knfbreader.michaelhingson.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
>>>> Behalf
>>>> Of Marion Gwizdala
>>>> Sent: Friday, July 29, 2011 4:05 PM
>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Re Guide Dog and taxis
>>>>
>>>> Gary and all,
>>>>    I generally advise that one not give advance notice that we will be
>>>> traveling with a guide dog. The presence of the service dog is 
>>>> irrelevant to
>>>>
>>>> whether or not they transport you. If the dispatcher broadcasts, "I'm
>>>> looking for someone willing to take a fare with a dog!" you may wait 
>>>> longer
>>>> for a ride than if they didn't know. This sets you up for the type of
>>>> discrimination known as an unequal benefit. I have dealt with several 
>>>> people
>>>>
>>>> who gave advance notice and regretted it because of the long wait 
>>>> times.
>>>> JMHO!
>>>>
>>>> Fraternally yours,
>>>> Marion
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>> From: "GARY STEEVES" <rainshadowmusic at shaw.ca>
>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Friday, July 29, 2011 6:13 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Re Guide Dog and taxis
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi:
>>>>>
>>>>> Generally, I don't have a problem just telling the company I have a 
>>>>> dog
>>>>> since, if there is the potential for an issue this should remove it. 
>>>>> The
>>>>> issue I have and am going to talk to my current cab company about is 
>>>>> that
>>>>> they have one letter symbols for things. I learned this two weeks ago 
>>>>> when
>>>>
>>>>> three trips in a row I got a van cab. I found out that my file had a V 
>>>>> for
>>>>
>>>>> van and A for animal. I think they need to add another symbol that
>>>>> represents service dogs since an animal is a bit vague. I got cabs who
>>>>> don't mind dogs but sometimes I think they believe it is a pet, 
>>>>> especially
>>>>
>>>>> cuz it's a poodle which they never see as guide dogs. Also, being that 
>>>>> we
>>>>> are getting picked up right in front of my house and I've usually just
>>>>> been walking bogart around the block for his morning relief, he is 
>>>>> often
>>>>> not in harness. the harness is in  my hand. However, why I use the 
>>>>> same
>>>>> company all the time is so that many drivers get to know me and often 
>>>>> show
>>>>
>>>>> up with the front passenger seat put way forward to
>>>>> give Bogart more room and cute things like that.
>>>>>
>>>>> Gary
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: Tami Kinney <tamara.8024 at comcast.net>
>>>>> Date: Friday, July 29, 2011 2:34 pm
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Re Guide Dog Forced to Ride in Trunk
>>>>> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>>
>>>>>> Lyn,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Well said. When I lived nearer to downtown, I would just tell the
>>>>>> dispatcher about the dog, although it seems they do have a note about
>>>>>> her attached to my number. This actually worked in my favor
>>>>>> there, where
>>>>>> you couldn't swing a cat without hitting one of their cabs. Now I'm
>>>>>> still in the Portland Metro area, but apparently this does not 
>>>>>> prevent
>>>>>> me living in the boonies as far as the cab companies are
>>>>>> concerned. So
>>>>>> I've learned to just fail to mention anything at all about a dog or
>>>>>> being blind or anything because that does seem to increase the
>>>>>> odds a
>>>>>> cab will get out here eventually. I've tried a couple of other
>>>>>> companiesthat supposedly serve this area, but... Sigh. Anyway,
>>>>>> if they want to
>>>>>> drive all the way out here and then refuse to take my dog, I
>>>>>> guess I'll
>>>>>> be putting up a big fuss about that, won't I? /evil grin/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Then again, what with having a private driver and on-demand car
>>>>>> serviceright here, I guess I won't be giving many cabby's an
>>>>>> opportunity to
>>>>>> refuse me a ride because of my dog.  Ain't that just too
>>>>>> bad for
>>>>>> me. /lol/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Either way, with cabs or hotel reservations or whatever, I tend
>>>>>> to do
>>>>>> what I believe is most likely to achieve the best results when
>>>>>> it comes
>>>>>> to deciding whether to mention the dog beforehand or not. Which
>>>>>> does not
>>>>>> mean I always make the right guess, but I have had few hassles, so
>>>>>> that's what matters to me. /smile/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Tami
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, 2011-07-28 at 12:42 -0700, Lyn Gwizdak wrote:
>>>>>> > I agree with you, Bibi.  I will tell the cab dispach that
>>>>>> I have a guide dog
>>>>>> > and to just send a driver who has no problem with a dog.
>>>>>> this way, I get my
>>>>>> > cab and no BSing with the driver.  People do what you
>>>>>> feel is best for you.
>>>>>> > There's no right or wrong in this matter.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > Lyn and Landon
>>>>>> > ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>> > From: "Criminal Justice Major Extraordinaire"
>>>>>> <orleans24 at comcast.net>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National
>>>>>> Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>>>>> > <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> > Sent: Saturday, July 23, 2011 5:54 PM
>>>>>> > Subject: Re: [nagdu] Re Guide Dog Forced to Ride in Trunk
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > > Hi, Brenda,
>>>>>> > > I remember when attending a couple of guide dog schools and
>>>>>> not hearing
>>>>>> > > one word or thing mentioned about if being asked by a cab
>>>>>> driver to put
>>>>>> > > the dog in a trunk of the car.
>>>>>> > > Thankfully, I've not had any experiences with that and
>>>>>> hopefully with my
>>>>>> > > fourth guide, that won't happen either.
>>>>>> > > I know many people here won't agree with what I'm about to
>>>>>> say here, but
>>>>>> > > here it goes...
>>>>>> > > There were times I'd just go ahead and let the cab company
>>>>>> know that I
>>>>>> > > have a guide dog and it did help and minimize a possible problem.
>>>>>> > > In the same aspect, I'd get a cab quickly too.
>>>>>> > > I only would do this during stressful situations to avoid
>>>>>> getting
>>>>>> > > frustrated around Odie.
>>>>>> > > He is one sensitive boy who would pick up on my anxiety
>>>>>> rather quickly.
>>>>>> > > If I knew where that dog handler was living here in
>>>>>> Colorado, I'd gladly
>>>>>> > > help her out or at least be willing to give her some
>>>>>> encouragement and
>>>>>> > > advice on dealing with situations like that.
>>>>>> > > unfortunately, I have no idea if she lives in Denver or
>>>>>> another city close
>>>>>> > > by to me.
>>>>>> > > If someone told me to put Odie in the trunk, I'd happily say
>>>>>> right on tthe
>>>>>> > > spot, "Would you like it if I just rolled you up and stuck
>>>>>> you in that
>>>>>> > > area?"
>>>>>> > > I know. I'm a tough person when it comes to stuff like that.
>>>>>> > > *Smiles*
>>>>>> > > Bibi and Odie
>>>>>> > > the retired one
>>>>>> > >
>>>>>> > > _______________________________________________
>>>>>> > > nagdu mailing list
>>>>>> > > nagdu at nfbnet.org
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>>>>>>
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/linda.gwizdak%40cox.n
>>>> et
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > _______________________________________________
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>>>>> _______________________________________________
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