[nagdu] Being a cane user and also using a dog.

[Wayne Merritt]

Just one correction: I also carry a small telescoping cane in my
backpack, not for identification reasons, since most people will
already know I'm blind. I carry the cane in case I need to check
something out that my dog is trying to tell me, or in case I ever find
myself without the dog. I think everyone should have such a
telescoping/folding cane at the ready since as is often said, you
never know.

Wayne

On 6/21/11, holly mcknight <hollyandpolly at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hello all, It has been a few since my last post, but now I shall share.  I
> am a three-time graduate of Guide Dogs for the Blind, and have been using
> dog for almost eighteen years.  When I first applied, it was very much
> impressed on me, that a person who is blind and wanting to train with a dog,
> MUST have very good cane skills before applying.  This is because a dog does
> not know routes, and the blind person who is using the dog must know where
> they are in space and how to direct their dog to where they want to go.  I
> still have a cane and use it sometimes, if I am in a situation where a dog
> is impractical.  I feel much safer, as a woman with my dog.  Obviously, our
> dogs do pick up on routes that we regularly travel, and they can follow
> someone when asked to do so.  This is handy in places where there is not a
> lot of space.  When using a dog and learning a knew place, it can be helpful
> to go to the new place using a cane, before a dog is taken there.  Someone
> said that they wondered if dog users were not as good of travelers as cane
> users are.  I think a dog user is actually a much better traveler.  I have
> done all kinds of things with dogs, college, being in a wedding, traveling
> outside of the U.S., and going on a cruise.  I hope this helps.  Some dog
> users also carry a small folding cane in their bag for indentification
> reasons.  I do not because if someone has a question, it is very important
> for me to stop and answer if I have the time.
>
>
>> From: nagdu-request at nfbnet.org
>> Subject: nagdu Digest, Vol 75, Issue 24
>> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2011 12:00:14 -0500
>>
>> Send nagdu mailing list submissions to
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>>
>> Today's Topics:
>>
>> 1. Re: Orientation Assistance at Convention (Tami Kinney)
>> 2. a cane and dog discussion (Julie McGinnity)
>> 3. Re: a cane and dog discussion (Steven Johnson)
>> 4. Re: [Bulk] a cane and dog discussion (B Avila Guerrero)
>> 5. Re: a cane and dog discussion (cheryl echevarria)
>> 6. Re: a cane and dog discussion (cheryl echevarria)
>> 7. Re: [Bulk] a cane and dog discussion (cheryl echevarria)
>> 8. Re: a cane and dog discussion (Shannon Dyer)
>> 9. Re: a cane and dog discussion (Cindy Ray)
>> 10. Re: a cane and dog discussion (Cindy Ray)
>> 11. Re: a cane and dog discussion (Dan Weiner)
>> 12. Re: a cane and dog discussion (Julie J.)
>> 13. Re: a cane and dog discussion (Ally Matt)
>> 14. Re: a cane and dog discussion (Dan Weiner)
>> 15. Re: a cane and dog discussion (Sheila Leigland)
>> 16. Re: a cane and dog discussion (Albert J Rizzi)
>> 17. Re: a cane and dog discussion (cheryl echevarria)
>> 18. Re: a cane and dog discussion (cane silence) (Mike)
>> 19. Re: a cane and dog discussion (cane silence) (Hope Paulos)
>> 20. Re: a cane and dog discussion (Margo and Arrow)
>> 21. Re: a cane and dog discussion (cane silence) (Albert J Rizzi)
>> 22. Re: a cane and dog discussion (cane silence) (Albert J Rizzi)
>> 23. Re: a cane and dog discussion (cane silence)
>> (PICKRELL, REBECCA M (TASC))
>> 24. Re: [Bulk] a cane and dog discussion (Tami Kinney)
>> 25. Re: a cane and dog discussion (Tami Kinney)
>> 26. Re: a cane and dog discussion (cane silence) (Sheila Leigland)
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Sun, 19 Jun 2011 15:23:21 -0700
>> From: Tami Kinney <tamara.8024 at comcast.net>
>> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Orientation Assistance at Convention
>> Message-ID: <1308522201.2913.4.camel at tamara-desktop>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>>
>> That does sound like a great thing he's doing. The idea of having
>> orientation assistance from someone who knows guide dogs sounds great.
>> I'm not soing I don't enjoy the challenge and feeling of victory of
>> figuring stuff out for myself, but... Having an expert along to make it
>> easier would be even more fun. /grin/
>>
>> For those who take him up on his offer, please to not forget to report
>> back to the rest of us who will be with you in spirit (or is that pure
>> envy?)! /grin/
>>
>> On Sat, 2011-06-18 at 11:59 -0700, Lyn Gwizdak wrote:
>> > Great that John Byfield is going to help out at the convention. That man
>> >
>> > sure gets around! I first knew him in 1973 when I went to GDF for my
>> > first
>> > dog. He's a good trainer and a nice person! I saw him again in 1998 when
>> > I
>> > visited him at Fidelco while I was with a friend who was then a Fidelco
>> > graduate. Take advantage of his knowledge, folks!
>> >
>> > Lyn and Landon
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: "Marion Gwizdala" <blind411 at verizon.net>
>> > To: "NAGDU List" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> > Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2011 10:26 AM
>> > Subject: [nagdu] Orientation Assistance at Convention
>> >
>> >
>> > > Dear All,
>> > > John Byfield, perhaps one of the most experienced trainers in the
>> > > country, has contacted me offering to provide orientation to anyone
>> > > who
>> > > feels they need it. John will be in the hotel lobby around noon on
>> > > Saturday, July 2. If you would like some professional assistance
>> > > getting
>> > > oriented to the Shingle Creek, John is an awesome resource. If you
>> > > would
>> > > like more information, please write to me off-list at
>> > >
>> > > President at NAGDU.ORG
>> > >
>> > > Fraternally yours,
>> > > Marion Gwizdala
>> > >
>> > > _______________________________________________
>> > > nagdu mailing list
>> > > nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> > > nagdu:
>> > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/linda.gwizdak%40cox.net
>> > >
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > nagdu mailing list
>> > nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> > nagdu:
>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/tamara.8024%40comcast.net
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2011 01:46:08 -0500
>> From: Julie McGinnity <kaybaycar at gmail.com>
>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Subject: [nagdu] a cane and dog discussion
>> Message-ID: <BANLkTik8-zRgrdwXOQguVQsLo6JqoRr8ZQ at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>>
>> Hello everyone.
>>
>> It is very late, so I hope I make sense as I pose the following
>> discussion to you. A friend and I are engaged in an interesting
>> arguement. We are talking about guide dog users and how much they use
>> their canes and a few other things. I'd just like to pose a few
>> questions. (Some of them may seem rather basic.)
>>
>> Do you think that guide dog users are just as independent as cane
>> users when it comes to travelling?
>>
>> Do you think you lose cane skills if you use a dog the majority of the
>> time?
>>
>>
>> Do you think that the majority of dog handlers are bad cane users?
>>
>> I know these are really general questions, and if you can't answer
>> them with direct answers, please, just your observations or
>> experiences will suffice. I'm just very curious about this. I want
>> to know what people think, and I don't really want to seem too
>> invested in this or as though I am taking a side. I'm pretty young
>> and a relatively new guide dog user, so I know there are things I
>> don't know and haven't seen yet. I'm more interested in what you guys
>> say.
>>
>> Thanks. Sorry if my late night/early morning ramblings make no sense.
>>
>> --
>> Julie McG
>> Lindbergh High School class of 2009, participating member in Opera
>> Theater's Artist in Training Program, and proud graduate of Guiding
>> Eyes for the Blind
>>
>> "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that
>> everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal
>> life."
>> John 3:16
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 3
>> Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2011 05:01:59 -0500
>> From: "Steven Johnson" <blinddog3 at charter.net>
>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
>> Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] a cane and dog discussion
>> Message-ID: <000c01cc2f31$18925d10$49b71730$@net>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>
>> Hi Julie,
>> Chances are that you will have a somewhat slanted view by posting this
>> question on this NAGDU list, so in fairness and to obtain a more equal
>> response, I would suggest you possibly post on another site, and I would
>> suggest the blind talk list.
>>
>> JMO,
>> Steve
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
>> Of Julie McGinnity
>> Sent: Monday, June 20, 2011 1:46 AM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: [nagdu] a cane and dog discussion
>>
>> Hello everyone.
>>
>> It is very late, so I hope I make sense as I pose the following
>> discussion to you. A friend and I are engaged in an interesting
>> arguement. We are talking about guide dog users and how much they use
>> their canes and a few other things. I'd just like to pose a few
>> questions. (Some of them may seem rather basic.)
>>
>> Do you think that guide dog users are just as independent as cane
>> users when it comes to travelling?
>>
>> Do you think you lose cane skills if you use a dog the majority of the
>> time?
>>
>>
>> Do you think that the majority of dog handlers are bad cane users?
>>
>> I know these are really general questions, and if you can't answer
>> them with direct answers, please, just your observations or
>> experiences will suffice. I'm just very curious about this. I want
>> to know what people think, and I don't really want to seem too
>> invested in this or as though I am taking a side. I'm pretty young
>> and a relatively new guide dog user, so I know there are things I
>> don't know and haven't seen yet. I'm more interested in what you guys
>> say.
>>
>> Thanks. Sorry if my late night/early morning ramblings make no sense.
>>
>> --
>> Julie McG
>> Lindbergh High School class of 2009, participating member in Opera
>> Theater's Artist in Training Program, and proud graduate of Guiding
>> Eyes for the Blind
>>
>> "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that
>> everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal
>> life."
>> John 3:16
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nagdu:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/blinddog3%40charter.n
>> et
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 4
>> Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2011 04:22:34 -0600
>> From: "B Avila Guerrero" <guerrero.avila at sbcglobal.net>
>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
>> Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] [Bulk] a cane and dog discussion
>> Message-ID: <005101cc2f33$f93bdfb0$ebb39f10$@avila at sbcglobal.net>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>>
>> Julie, with all due respect,
>> What difference does it make what we think? What matters is what works for
>> you and how you will travel best, be safe and as independent as you want
>> to
>> be.
>>
>> I have been on two lists of Dog guide users for the past few months, and
>> so
>> far, and I don't mean to insult any one, but what I have found are very
>> judgmental and opinionated people.
>>
>> My advice and take it for what it is worth, work with your dog, your
>> school
>> and do what is best for you.
>> Bertha
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
>> Of Julie McGinnity
>> Sent: Monday, June 20, 2011 12:46 AM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: [Bulk] [nagdu] a cane and dog discussion
>>
>> Hello everyone.
>>
>> It is very late, so I hope I make sense as I pose the following
>> discussion to you. A friend and I are engaged in an interesting
>> arguement. We are talking about guide dog users and how much they use
>> their canes and a few other things. I'd just like to pose a few
>> questions. (Some of them may seem rather basic.)
>>
>> Do you think that guide dog users are just as independent as cane
>> users when it comes to travelling?
>>
>> Do you think you lose cane skills if you use a dog the majority of the
>> time?
>>
>>
>> Do you think that the majority of dog handlers are bad cane users?
>>
>> I know these are really general questions, and if you can't answer
>> them with direct answers, please, just your observations or
>> experiences will suffice. I'm just very curious about this. I want
>> to know what people think, and I don't really want to seem too
>> invested in this or as though I am taking a side. I'm pretty young
>> and a relatively new guide dog user, so I know there are things I
>> don't know and haven't seen yet. I'm more interested in what you guys
>> say.
>>
>> Thanks. Sorry if my late night/early morning ramblings make no sense.
>>
>> --
>> Julie McG
>> Lindbergh High School class of 2009, participating member in Opera
>> Theater's Artist in Training Program, and proud graduate of Guiding
>> Eyes for the Blind
>>
>> "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that
>> everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal
>> life."
>> John 3:16
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nagdu:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/guerrero.avila%40sbcg
>> lobal.net
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 5
>> Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2011 06:42:00 -0400
>> From: "cheryl echevarria" <cherylandmaxx at hotmail.com>
>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] a cane and dog discussion
>> Message-ID: <BLU162-ds18E15BC253A3B4B99275D7A16E0 at phx.gbl>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>
>> gm Julie:
>>
>> My thought on this, and I am still using my first guide dog.
>>
>> First, I always have my cane with me. I think it is important that we use
>> both, in case, dog is sick, or we are in between dogs. I was also told at
>> my guide dog school, that our dogs become as dependent on us as we are of
>> them.
>>
>> So, at least once a week, I leave him at home and use my cane, not all
>> day, I don't leave him home for hours. I want to make sure that god forbid
>> something happens to my dog, or I want to go to a place where I can't
>> bring him, that I keep my cane skills.
>>
>> It is important, I would hate to wait in the house for months at a time
>> waiting for a dog, when I can be doing something. I love my Maxx.
>>
>> But let's say we weren't blind and our car broke down, I would have to
>> take a bus or walk. (I know not the same, I used to be sighted my own
>> comparison)
>>
>> It is important for all of us to have alternatives, plus I don't' like to
>> rely on others to help me to get from point A to point B unless absolutely
>> necessary, I hope this help
>> Leading the Way in Independent Travel!
>>
>> Cheryl Echevarria
>> http://www.echevarriatravel.com<http://www.echevarriatravel.com/>
>> 631-456-5394
>> reservations at echevarriatravel.com<mailto:reservations at echevarriatravel.com>
>>
>> Affiliated as an Independent Contractor with Montrose Travel
>> CST-1018299-10
>>
>> Affiliated as an Independent Contractor with Absolute Cruise & Travel,
>> Inc.
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Julie McGinnity<mailto:kaybaycar at gmail.com>
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
>> Users<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Monday, June 20, 2011 2:46 AM
>> Subject: [nagdu] a cane and dog discussion
>>
>>
>> Hello everyone.
>>
>> It is very late, so I hope I make sense as I pose the following
>> discussion to you. A friend and I are engaged in an interesting
>> arguement. We are talking about guide dog users and how much they use
>> their canes and a few other things. I'd just like to pose a few
>> questions. (Some of them may seem rather basic.)
>>
>> Do you think that guide dog users are just as independent as cane
>> users when it comes to travelling?
>>
>> Do you think you lose cane skills if you use a dog the majority of the
>> time?
>>
>>
>> Do you think that the majority of dog handlers are bad cane users?
>>
>> I know these are really general questions, and if you can't answer
>> them with direct answers, please, just your observations or
>> experiences will suffice. I'm just very curious about this. I want
>> to know what people think, and I don't really want to seem too
>> invested in this or as though I am taking a side. I'm pretty young
>> and a relatively new guide dog user, so I know there are things I
>> don't know and haven't seen yet. I'm more interested in what you guys
>> say.
>>
>> Thanks. Sorry if my late night/early morning ramblings make no sense.
>>
>> --
>> Julie McG
>> Lindbergh High School class of 2009, participating member in Opera
>> Theater's Artist in Training Program, and proud graduate of Guiding
>> Eyes for the Blind
>>
>> "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that
>> everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal
>> life."
>> John 3:16
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org>
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nagdu:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/cherylandmaxx%40hotmail.com<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/cherylandmaxx%40hotmail.com>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 6
>> Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2011 06:43:11 -0400
>> From: "cheryl echevarria" <cherylandmaxx at hotmail.com>
>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] a cane and dog discussion
>> Message-ID: <BLU162-ds185EDDE12EAC0A3406BAACA16E0 at phx.gbl>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>
>> why she is asking pertaining to using other skills as a guide dog users,
>> this is for that here.
>>
>> Leading the Way in Independent Travel!
>>
>> Cheryl Echevarria
>> http://www.echevarriatravel.com<http://www.echevarriatravel.com/>
>> 631-456-5394
>> reservations at echevarriatravel.com<mailto:reservations at echevarriatravel.com>
>>
>> Affiliated as an Independent Contractor with Montrose Travel
>> CST-1018299-10
>>
>> Affiliated as an Independent Contractor with Absolute Cruise & Travel,
>> Inc.
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Steven Johnson<mailto:blinddog3 at charter.net>
>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
>> Users'<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Monday, June 20, 2011 6:01 AM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] a cane and dog discussion
>>
>>
>> Hi Julie,
>> Chances are that you will have a somewhat slanted view by posting this
>> question on this NAGDU list, so in fairness and to obtain a more equal
>> response, I would suggest you possibly post on another site, and I would
>> suggest the blind talk list.
>>
>> JMO,
>> Steve
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org>
>> [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
>> Of Julie McGinnity
>> Sent: Monday, June 20, 2011 1:46 AM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: [nagdu] a cane and dog discussion
>>
>> Hello everyone.
>>
>> It is very late, so I hope I make sense as I pose the following
>> discussion to you. A friend and I are engaged in an interesting
>> arguement. We are talking about guide dog users and how much they use
>> their canes and a few other things. I'd just like to pose a few
>> questions. (Some of them may seem rather basic.)
>>
>> Do you think that guide dog users are just as independent as cane
>> users when it comes to travelling?
>>
>> Do you think you lose cane skills if you use a dog the majority of the
>> time?
>>
>>
>> Do you think that the majority of dog handlers are bad cane users?
>>
>> I know these are really general questions, and if you can't answer
>> them with direct answers, please, just your observations or
>> experiences will suffice. I'm just very curious about this. I want
>> to know what people think, and I don't really want to seem too
>> invested in this or as though I am taking a side. I'm pretty young
>> and a relatively new guide dog user, so I know there are things I
>> don't know and haven't seen yet. I'm more interested in what you guys
>> say.
>>
>> Thanks. Sorry if my late night/early morning ramblings make no sense.
>>
>> --
>> Julie McG
>> Lindbergh High School class of 2009, participating member in Opera
>> Theater's Artist in Training Program, and proud graduate of Guiding
>> Eyes for the Blind
>>
>> "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that
>> everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal
>> life."
>> John 3:16
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org>
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nagdu:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/blinddog3%40charter.n<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/blinddog3%40charter.n>
>> et
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org>
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nagdu:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/cherylandmaxx%40hotmail.com<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/cherylandmaxx%40hotmail.com>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 7
>> Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2011 06:44:25 -0400
>> From: "cheryl echevarria" <cherylandmaxx at hotmail.com>
>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] [Bulk] a cane and dog discussion
>> Message-ID: <BLU162-ds185D50462FB7B937473334A16E0 at phx.gbl>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>
>> Again, she is asking a question, I think it is a fair one.
>>
>>
>> Leading the Way in Independent Travel!
>>
>> Cheryl Echevarria
>> http://www.echevarriatravel.com<http://www.echevarriatravel.com/>
>> 631-456-5394
>> reservations at echevarriatravel.com<mailto:reservations at echevarriatravel.com>
>>
>> Affiliated as an Independent Contractor with Montrose Travel
>> CST-1018299-10
>>
>> Affiliated as an Independent Contractor with Absolute Cruise & Travel,
>> Inc.
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: B Avila Guerrero<mailto:guerrero.avila at sbcglobal.net>
>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
>> Users'<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Monday, June 20, 2011 6:22 AM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] [Bulk] a cane and dog discussion
>>
>>
>> Julie, with all due respect,
>> What difference does it make what we think? What matters is what works for
>> you and how you will travel best, be safe and as independent as you want
>> to
>> be.
>>
>> I have been on two lists of Dog guide users for the past few months, and
>> so
>> far, and I don't mean to insult any one, but what I have found are very
>> judgmental and opinionated people.
>>
>> My advice and take it for what it is worth, work with your dog, your
>> school
>> and do what is best for you.
>> Bertha
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org>
>> [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
>> Of Julie McGinnity
>> Sent: Monday, June 20, 2011 12:46 AM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: [Bulk] [nagdu] a cane and dog discussion
>>
>> Hello everyone.
>>
>> It is very late, so I hope I make sense as I pose the following
>> discussion to you. A friend and I are engaged in an interesting
>> arguement. We are talking about guide dog users and how much they use
>> their canes and a few other things. I'd just like to pose a few
>> questions. (Some of them may seem rather basic.)
>>
>> Do you think that guide dog users are just as independent as cane
>> users when it comes to travelling?
>>
>> Do you think you lose cane skills if you use a dog the majority of the
>> time?
>>
>>
>> Do you think that the majority of dog handlers are bad cane users?
>>
>> I know these are really general questions, and if you can't answer
>> them with direct answers, please, just your observations or
>> experiences will suffice. I'm just very curious about this. I want
>> to know what people think, and I don't really want to seem too
>> invested in this or as though I am taking a side. I'm pretty young
>> and a relatively new guide dog user, so I know there are things I
>> don't know and haven't seen yet. I'm more interested in what you guys
>> say.
>>
>> Thanks. Sorry if my late night/early morning ramblings make no sense.
>>
>> --
>> Julie McG
>> Lindbergh High School class of 2009, participating member in Opera
>> Theater's Artist in Training Program, and proud graduate of Guiding
>> Eyes for the Blind
>>
>> "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that
>> everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal
>> life."
>> John 3:16
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org>
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nagdu:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/guerrero.avila%40sbcg<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/guerrero.avila%40sbcg>
>> lobal.net
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org>
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nagdu:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/cherylandmaxx%40hotmail.com<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/cherylandmaxx%40hotmail.com>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 8
>> Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2011 07:02:32 -0400
>> From: Shannon Dyer <solsticesinger at gmail.com>
>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] a cane and dog discussion
>> Message-ID: <10FE40F2-9137-40F9-A5EC-5F7FB20DE111 at gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>>
>> Hi, Julie.
>>
>> As a child and young adult, I never liked my cane. I learned how to use
>> it, and did so safely all through elementary and most of high school.
>> However, when I was old enough to apply for a guide dog, I did. Due to
>> some other factors that I won't go into here, a dog allows me to travel
>> much more safely and confidently than I ever did with a cane. So, for me,
>> a dog made me more independent than I ever was with a cane.
>>
>> In terms of losing cane skills, I suppose it's possible. I don't often
>> travel without my guide, but, if I have to for some reason, I haven't
>> noticed any decline in my cane skills. I suppose this would depend on the
>> person though.
>>
>> Shannon and Caroline
>> Are you a fan of women's music? If so, join me each Thursday from noon
>> until three for the Eclectic Collection: a Celebration of Women In Music.
>> Point your media player to:
>> http://mojoradio.us/listen
>> or
>> www.mintfm.net
>>
>> On Jun 20, 2011, at 2:46 AM, Julie McGinnity wrote:
>>
>> > Hello everyone.
>> >
>> > It is very late, so I hope I make sense as I pose the following
>> > discussion to you. A friend and I are engaged in an interesting
>> > arguement. We are talking about guide dog users and how much they use
>> > their canes and a few other things. I'd just like to pose a few
>> > questions. (Some of them may seem rather basic.)
>> >
>> > Do you think that guide dog users are just as independent as cane
>> > users when it comes to travelling?
>> >
>> > Do you think you lose cane skills if you use a dog the majority of the
>> > time?
>> >
>> >
>> > Do you think that the majority of dog handlers are bad cane users?
>> >
>> > I know these are really general questions, and if you can't answer
>> > them with direct answers, please, just your observations or
>> > experiences will suffice. I'm just very curious about this. I want
>> > to know what people think, and I don't really want to seem too
>> > invested in this or as though I am taking a side. I'm pretty young
>> > and a relatively new guide dog user, so I know there are things I
>> > don't know and haven't seen yet. I'm more interested in what you guys
>> > say.
>> >
>> > Thanks. Sorry if my late night/early morning ramblings make no sense.
>> >
>> > --
>> > Julie McG
>> > Lindbergh High School class of 2009, participating member in Opera
>> > Theater's Artist in Training Program, and proud graduate of Guiding
>> > Eyes for the Blind
>> >
>> > "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that
>> > everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal
>> > life."
>> > John 3:16
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > nagdu mailing list
>> > nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> > nagdu:
>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/solsticesinger%40gmail.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 9
>> Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2011 06:24:44 -0500
>> From: Cindy Ray <cindyray at gmail.com>
>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] a cane and dog discussion
>> Message-ID: <5679A817-B6C1-4868-B848-1093B3D25218 at gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>>
>> I think this is a good place to post this because, while this is a list of
>> dog users, there \ a variety
>> experience on it.
>> On Jun 20, 2011, at 5:01 AM, Steven Johnson wrote:
>>
>> > Hi Julie,
>> > Chances are that you will have a somewhat slanted view by posting this
>> > question on this NAGDU list, so in fairness and to obtain a more equal
>> > response, I would suggest you possibly post on another site, and I would
>> > suggest the blind talk list.
>> >
>> > JMO,
>> > Steve
>> >
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> > Behalf
>> > is Of Julie McGinnity
>> > Sent: Monday, June 20, 2011 1:46 AM
>> > To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> > Subject: [nagdu] a cane and dog discussion
>> >
>> > Hello everyone.
>> >
>> > It is very late, so I hope I make sense as I pose the following
>> > discussion to you. A friend and I are engaged in an interesting
>> > arguement. We are talking about guide dog users and how much they use
>> > their canes and a few other things. I'd just like to pose a few
>> > questions. (Some of them may seem rather basic.)
>> >
>> > Do you think that guide dog users are just as independent as cane
>> > users when it comes to travelling?
>> >
>> > Do you think you lose cane skills if you use a dog the majority of the
>> > time?
>> >
>> >
>> > Do you think that the majority of dog handlers are bad cane users?
>> >
>> > I know these are really general questions, and if you can't answer
>> > them with direct answers, please, just your observations or
>> > experiences will suffice. I'm just very curious about this. I want
>> > to know what people think, and I don't really want to seem too
>> > invested in this or as though I am taking a side. I'm pretty young
>> > and a relatively new guide dog user, so I know there are things I
>> > don't know and haven't seen yet. I'm more interested in what you guys
>> > say.
>> >
>> > Thanks. Sorry if my late night/early morning ramblings make no sense.
>> >
>> > --
>> > Julie McG
>> > Lindbergh High School class of 2009, participating member in Opera
>> > Theater's Artist in Training Program, and proud graduate of Guiding
>> > Eyes for the Blind
>> >
>> > "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that
>> > everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal
>> > life."
>> > John 3:16
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > nagdu mailing list
>> > nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> > nagdu:
>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/blinddog3%40charter.n
>> > et
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > nagdu mailing list
>> > nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> > nagdu:
>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/cindyray%40gmail.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 10
>> Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2011 06:30:19 -0500
>> From: Cindy Ray <cindyray at gmail.com>
>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] a cane and dog discussion
>> Message-ID: <32EB08DC-013D-4EC9-A6E1-74148406E645 at gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>>
>> I used a cane for twenty-five years before getting a dog. I was very
>> independent with the cane; I am with the dog, though there are some times
>> when I don't feel so. I find it a little stressful to find a place to
>> relieve it when going to a new hotel, though I have also learned that
>> practice makes perfect. I am beginning to find that there are places where
>> the cane would be preferable--when the choir has sung, for instance. I
>> don't prefer the reaction to the dogs that I get, people interrupting my
>> discussions at dinner to ask about my dog, for instance, or speaking to
>> the dog and not to me. I knew I would feel like this when I got the first
>> one. I don't make it a point to practie with the cane any scheduled time
>> because I know I don't need to, but for the first few minutes when I do
>> use it, it is a little strange after having the dog. For a long time I
>> felt more independent with the cane to be honest. And I know there are
>> people who gained confidence using dogs and then that transferred to the
>> cane, so it is just a wide variety.
>> Cindy
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 11
>> Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2011 08:12:53 -0400
>> From: "Dan Weiner" <dcwein at dcwein.cnc.net>
>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
>> Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] a cane and dog discussion
>> Message-ID: <20110620121256.BD260A5AF at thunderer.cnc.net>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>
>> Hi, Julie.
>>
>> First of all, welcome to the world of guide dogs.
>> I've been off the list for some time so I don't know if you've written
>> about
>> your experiences so if you haven't , I'd love to hear what prompted you to
>> get a guide dog and how it's been.
>>
>> My name is Dan Weiner, pronounced to rhyme with "miner"--smile--and I've
>> used guide dogs for 17 years.
>>
>> All right, here's my answer and it may sound like I'm being a grouch:
>> Who cares--smile.
>> This cane and dog controversy has been around for years and years and I
>> honestly couldn't care less about the answer to those questions.
>> What works for one person doesn't work for another... I don't judge people
>> on their O and M skills so much as on what type of person they are,
>> unlike,
>> it would seem, a lot of my fellow blind people.
>>
>> If people get a dog, it's obvious that for some reason the cane wasn't
>> doing
>> it for them.
>>
>> If they decide to use a cane, then it's clear that they for some reason
>> don't want or need a dog--lol.
>>
>> Now, in real life I'm a very nice person, so don't let my answer turn you
>> off--smile.
>>
>>
>> Dan and the Carter Dog
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 12
>> Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2011 07:26:26 -0500
>> From: "Julie J." <julielj at neb.rr.com>
>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] a cane and dog discussion
>> Message-ID: <4DFF3C72.5010204 at neb.rr.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>>
>> My thoughts on this topic have changed over time and I still think I
>> have a long way to go to get to the core of it. Anyhow here's my
>> current thinking.
>>
>> I think guide dog users and cane users have the potential to be amazing
>> travelers. I think how good of a traveler you are is partly due to
>> inherent talent, partly to a good instructor and mostly to do with
>> practice and perseverance.
>> I've met really good and really bad travelers from both groups-dogs and
>> canes. Dog users do have to be more committed to the practice portion
>> of the equation though. Guide dog programs also require some level of
>> cane skill before getting a guide. I suppose this does eliminate a few
>> people from getting a dog. Although if they have the perseverance part
>> of the equation, they could acquire the skills they need to qualify for
>> the dog. So in the end, for me, it comes down to motivation. How
>> motivated a person is to be a good traveler is going to have a huge
>> impact on how well they travel, cane or dog.
>>
>> I'm a good traveler with either tool. My preference is obviously a
>> guide dog, but I don't feel any hesitation in leaving Monty behind if
>> that is what is best. Well, I don't hesitate due to travel worries, but
>> I do miss him.
>>
>> Like Cindy, I worry about finding suitable places to relieve Monty when
>> I travel to other cities. Sometimes when entering a new restaurant or
>> business I wonder if I am going to have access problems. Next week I am
>> attending a training thing for work. the event is taking place at an
>> Asian Center. It does stress me a bit, knowing that there could be an
>> access issue.
>>
>> JMHO
>> Julie J.
>>
>>
>> On 6/20/2011 1:46 AM, Julie McGinnity wrote:
>> > Hello everyone.
>> >
>> > It is very late, so I hope I make sense as I pose the following
>> > discussion to you. A friend and I are engaged in an interesting
>> > arguement. We are talking about guide dog users and how much they use
>> > their canes and a few other things. I'd just like to pose a few
>> > questions. (Some of them may seem rather basic.)
>> >
>> > Do you think that guide dog users are just as independent as cane
>> > users when it comes to travelling?
>> >
>> > Do you think you lose cane skills if you use a dog the majority of the
>> > time?
>> >
>> >
>> > Do you think that the majority of dog handlers are bad cane users?
>> >
>> > I know these are really general questions, and if you can't answer
>> > them with direct answers, please, just your observations or
>> > experiences will suffice. I'm just very curious about this. I want
>> > to know what people think, and I don't really want to seem too
>> > invested in this or as though I am taking a side. I'm pretty young
>> > and a relatively new guide dog user, so I know there are things I
>> > don't know and haven't seen yet. I'm more interested in what you guys
>> > say.
>> >
>> > Thanks. Sorry if my late night/early morning ramblings make no sense.
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 13
>> Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2011 08:30:49 -0400
>> From: "Ally Matt" <ally.matt0 at gmail.com>
>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
>> Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] a cane and dog discussion
>> Message-ID: <4dff3d8c.8f3ce70a.171c.ffff972a at mx.google.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>
>> Hi Julie,
>>
>> My experience is that I have felt more independent since I have had my
>> dogs
>> than when I was using a cane. I have never felt super comfortable using a
>> cane despite O & M training with the cane. So, I don't really ever use my
>> cane unless my dog can't work for some reason. It's my opinion that it is
>> not the dog or the cane that makes someone more or less independent. I
>> think
>> it's about which the person is most comfortable with because at least for
>> me, when I feel comfortable I'm likely to do things or go places
>> especially
>> places that I am not familiar with. Of course, these are just my opinions
>> on
>> the subject.
>> Ally
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
>> Of Julie McGinnity
>> Sent: Monday, June 20, 2011 2:46 AM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: [nagdu] a cane and dog discussion
>>
>> Hello everyone.
>>
>> It is very late, so I hope I make sense as I pose the following
>> discussion to you. A friend and I are engaged in an interesting
>> arguement. We are talking about guide dog users and how much they use
>> their canes and a few other things. I'd just like to pose a few
>> questions. (Some of them may seem rather basic.)
>>
>> Do you think that guide dog users are just as independent as cane
>> users when it comes to travelling?
>>
>> Do you think you lose cane skills if you use a dog the majority of the
>> time?
>>
>>
>> Do you think that the majority of dog handlers are bad cane users?
>>
>> I know these are really general questions, and if you can't answer
>> them with direct answers, please, just your observations or
>> experiences will suffice. I'm just very curious about this. I want
>> to know what people think, and I don't really want to seem too
>> invested in this or as though I am taking a side. I'm pretty young
>> and a relatively new guide dog user, so I know there are things I
>> don't know and haven't seen yet. I'm more interested in what you guys
>> say.
>>
>> Thanks. Sorry if my late night/early morning ramblings make no sense.
>>
>> --
>> Julie McG
>> Lindbergh High School class of 2009, participating member in Opera
>> Theater's Artist in Training Program, and proud graduate of Guiding
>> Eyes for the Blind
>>
>> "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that
>> everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal
>> life."
>> John 3:16
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nagdu:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/ally.matt0%40gmail.co
>> m
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 14
>> Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2011 08:55:54 -0400
>> From: "Dan Weiner" <dcwein at dcwein.cnc.net>
>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
>> Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] a cane and dog discussion
>> Message-ID: <20110620125555.C5BEF1D6C at repulse.cnc.net>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>
>> All right, here I go with my take on it though what I said earlier still
>> applies, I don't care what tool people use and I don't care about their
>> skills, I take people as human beings, and I don't think that people need
>> to
>> measure up to some standard.
>>
>> I know how to use both but a dog, a properly trained one and the right
>> match
>> for an individual, can do things a cane just doesn't.
>>
>> There are walks I take with a dog that I wouldn't take with a cane.
>> First of all just having a dog made me actually want to go on walks.
>> Before that walking or not was just a means to an end and one I would have
>> been glad to avoid--smile.
>>
>>
>> I, of course have needed t use a cane since then and though I know how to
>> use it, I do a lot of things that I might not do with a dog, veer, or just
>> simply get lost--smile.
>> I have a hearing issue in one ear and it plays havoc with orientation.
>>
>> All right, some people just don't want the responsibility of having a dog
>> and that's perfectly all right.
>> However, even the best cane travelers I've seen will improve their travel
>> with a dog, in other words, just because you're a great cane traveler it
>> doesn't mean that a dog might not benefit you in some way.
>> I hear a lot of smug cane users say "oh, well if I had some other handicap
>> I'd want a dog, but I don't need one". Well, of course, you don't in
>> quotes
>> "need" one, but as I've said I've seen some great cane travelers who
>> benefit
>> from having a pair of canine eyes to help them out--smile
>>
>>
>> When you have a dog you're working with a living thing, and it's team
>> work,
>> so some people just can't adjust to that and I respect their honesty in
>> admitting that.
>>
>> The feeling of freedom I have when I'm taking a nice brisk walk with my
>> dog
>> and it's going great is something, though, that I never had with a cane,
>> so
>> I'll be sticking with a dog for a long time, I suspect.
>>
>> I think that, based on my reactions when I've been between dogs or when my
>> dogs are sick, that I would really miss it.
>>
>>
>> What I'm tired of though, and I see this in our NFB or at least I used to,
>> is this spirit of competition, cane users feeling they had to compete or
>> justify.
>> I'd say something good about what my dog does and I'd get the response:
>>
>> "I can do that with my cane", well, big deal, do I really give a
>> shoot?--smile
>> What I mean is, I'm not trying to compete but I have a right to say that I
>> have been benefited by the use of a dog. Well, someone who gets good cane
>> training certainly has a right to talk about how it's benefited them too
>> and
>> I don't object.
>> So, let's all use what works and just deal with it.
>>
>> I've noticed something, ever seen in the monitor a picture of a person
>> with
>> their guide dog and it's John Smith with his guide dog, the dog never has
>> a
>> name and it almost seems like you're not supposed to say anything that
>> would
>> give your dog personality?
>>
>> Just my take on it.
>>
>>
>> Is that helpful or do I need to give you more concrete examples?
>>
>> Dan and Carter Dog
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 15
>> Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2011 08:06:15 -0600
>> From: Sheila Leigland <sleigland at bresnan.net>
>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] a cane and dog discussion
>> Message-ID: <auto-000040596144 at fe-3.cluster1.bresnan.net>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>
>> I think it depends on the situations that a person deals with daily. I do
>> much better with a dog in snow and on ice than I did with a cane. I used a
>> cane exclusivily until almost eleven years ago when I got my first dog.my
>> first dog. I've known cane users that have no interest in getting a dog
>> and that is fine. I don't know people that have lost there cane skills but
>> I've heard of it..
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 16
>> Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2011 10:19:13 -0400
>> From: "Albert J Rizzi" <albert at myblindspot.org>
>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
>> Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] a cane and dog discussion
>> Message-ID: <C046A0D260744131878727743CE4F8F7 at JkTC4D1>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>
>> Hello all,
>>
>> Was not sure if I were going to chime in here or not. cane versus dog. I
>> choose dog all the way. as a recent entrant into the community, and in
>> assessing my needs from a tactile standpoint, I find the dog much better
>> as
>> well as expeditious for my needs. I find that when my cane taps something
>> I
>> am 99% inclined to reach out and touch whatever it is that is in my path.
>> I
>> do this for my own knowledge of what is on my path and just for the
>> curiosity of it all. with my guide none of that ever happens. I could be
>> walking through an obstacle course full of pot holes or pillars and never
>> once want to nor need to know what it is I avoided. Add to that the issue
>> of
>> my sighted peers not seeing what they are looking at and again I choose
>> the
>> dog hands down. I had my cane stepped on and snapped three times in my
>> first
>> 4 months of being blind. that was enough experience for me to not want to
>> use the cane. The dog for one reason or another catches the eyes of the
>> sighted, it minimizes accidental cane breakage and it always opens the
>> door
>> for a dialogue or discussion where the cane sort of acts like a dome of
>> silence which at first glance is impenetrable by the sighted community. so
>> power to the pup for me anyway. Peace.
>>
>>
>> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
>> Founder
>> My Blind Spot, Inc.
>> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
>> New York, New York 10004
>> www.myblindspot.org
>> PH: 917-553-0347
>> Fax: 212-858-5759
>> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who is
>> doing it."
>>
>>
>> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
>> Of Sheila Leigland
>> Sent: Monday, June 20, 2011 10:06 AM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] a cane and dog discussion
>>
>> I think it depends on the situations that a person deals with daily. I do
>> much better with a dog in snow and on ice than I did with a cane. I used a
>> cane exclusivily until almost eleven years ago when I got my first dog.my
>> first dog. I've known cane users that have no interest in getting a dog
>> and
>> that is fine. I don't know people that have lost there cane skills but
>> I've
>> heard of it..
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nagdu:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/albert%40myblindspot.
>> org
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 17
>> Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2011 10:21:44 -0400
>> From: "cheryl echevarria" <cherylandmaxx at hotmail.com>
>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] a cane and dog discussion
>> Message-ID: <BLU162-ds3FC19DEED12C8FCF36C6EA16E0 at phx.gbl>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>
>> Dan you weren't grouchy at all, very pleasant answer.
>>
>> I like the other answers to the rest, yes it is up to the individual and
>> the situation we find us in.
>>
>> Leading the Way in Independent Travel!
>>
>> Cheryl Echevarria
>> http://www.echevarriatravel.com<http://www.echevarriatravel.com/>
>> 631-456-5394
>> reservations at echevarriatravel.com<mailto:reservations at echevarriatravel.com>
>>
>> Affiliated as an Independent Contractor with Montrose Travel
>> CST-1018299-10
>>
>> Affiliated as an Independent Contractor with Absolute Cruise & Travel,
>> Inc.
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Dan Weiner<mailto:dcwein at dcwein.cnc.net>
>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
>> Users'<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Monday, June 20, 2011 8:12 AM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] a cane and dog discussion
>>
>>
>> Hi, Julie.
>>
>> First of all, welcome to the world of guide dogs.
>> I've been off the list for some time so I don't know if you've written
>> about
>> your experiences so if you haven't , I'd love to hear what prompted you to
>> get a guide dog and how it's been.
>>
>> My name is Dan Weiner, pronounced to rhyme with "miner"--smile--and I've
>> used guide dogs for 17 years.
>>
>> All right, here's my answer and it may sound like I'm being a grouch:
>> Who cares--smile.
>> This cane and dog controversy has been around for years and years and I
>> honestly couldn't care less about the answer to those questions.
>> What works for one person doesn't work for another... I don't judge people
>> on their O and M skills so much as on what type of person they are,
>> unlike,
>> it would seem, a lot of my fellow blind people.
>>
>> If people get a dog, it's obvious that for some reason the cane wasn't
>> doing
>> it for them.
>>
>> If they decide to use a cane, then it's clear that they for some reason
>> don't want or need a dog--lol.
>>
>> Now, in real life I'm a very nice person, so don't let my answer turn you
>> off--smile.
>>
>>
>> Dan and the Carter Dog
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org>
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nagdu:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/cherylandmaxx%40hotmail.com<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/cherylandmaxx%40hotmail.com>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 18
>> Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2011 07:51:32 -0700
>> From: "Mike" <underthetoaster at gmail.com>
>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] a cane and dog discussion (cane silence)
>> Message-ID: <8C454B887D86456E8111537AC59121EB at HatMachine>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
>> reply-type=original
>>
>> Hi,
>> I love how you brought up the silence factor of using a cane. It's one of
>> the most irritating things in the world. People yakking away in a hallway
>> is
>> fine but then when you get close with your cane they all hold their breath
>>
>> and clam up like they're scared they're going to get whacked. . Wouldn't
>> it
>> be a lot smarter if they say something to you so you know where they are
>> instead of vanishing into silence?
>> Anyway there are irritating things about canes and dogs. Everybody being
>> an
>> expert on dogs and what to feed, how to groom, etc. advice is very
>> annoying
>> to me. And the usual roster of questions gets old quickly.
>> Mike
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Albert J Rizzi" <albert at myblindspot.org>
>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Monday, June 20, 2011 7:19 AM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] a cane and dog discussion
>>
>>
>> > Hello all,
>> >
>> > Was not sure if I were going to chime in here or not. cane versus dog. I
>> > choose dog all the way. as a recent entrant into the community, and in
>> > assessing my needs from a tactile standpoint, I find the dog much better
>> >
>> > as
>> > well as expeditious for my needs. I find that when my cane taps
>> > something
>> > I
>> > am 99% inclined to reach out and touch whatever it is that is in my
>> > path.
>> > I
>> > do this for my own knowledge of what is on my path and just for the
>> > curiosity of it all. with my guide none of that ever happens. I could be
>> > walking through an obstacle course full of pot holes or pillars and
>> > never
>> > once want to nor need to know what it is I avoided. Add to that the
>> > issue
>> > of
>> > my sighted peers not seeing what they are looking at and again I choose
>> > the
>> > dog hands down. I had my cane stepped on and snapped three times in my
>> > first
>> > 4 months of being blind. that was enough experience for me to not want
>> > to
>> > use the cane. The dog for one reason or another catches the eyes of the
>> > sighted, it minimizes accidental cane breakage and it always opens the
>> > door
>> > for a dialogue or discussion where the cane sort of acts like a dome of
>> > silence which at first glance is impenetrable by the sighted community.
>> > so
>> > power to the pup for me anyway. Peace.
>> >
>> >
>> > Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
>> > Founder
>> > My Blind Spot, Inc.
>> > 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
>> > New York, New York 10004
>> > www.myblindspot.org
>> > PH: 917-553-0347
>> > Fax: 212-858-5759
>> > "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who
>> > is
>> > doing it."
>> >
>> >
>> > Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> > Behalf
>> > Of Sheila Leigland
>> > Sent: Monday, June 20, 2011 10:06 AM
>> > To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> > Subject: Re: [nagdu] a cane and dog discussion
>> >
>> > I think it depends on the situations that a person deals with daily. I
>> > do
>> > much better with a dog in snow and on ice than I did with a cane. I used
>> > a
>> > cane exclusivily until almost eleven years ago when I got my first
>> > dog.my
>> > first dog. I've known cane users that have no interest in getting a dog
>> > and
>> > that is fine. I don't know people that have lost there cane skills but
>> > I've
>> > heard of it..
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > nagdu mailing list
>> > nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> > nagdu:
>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/albert%40myblindspot.
>> > org
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > nagdu mailing list
>> > nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> > nagdu:
>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/underthetoaster%40gmail.com
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 19
>> Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2011 11:02:00 -0400
>> From: "Hope Paulos" <hope.paulos at gmail.com>
>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] a cane and dog discussion (cane silence)
>> Message-ID: <5437E53F985847B896CCC224F5D8BA09 at Espy>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
>> reply-type=response
>>
>> I couldn't agree more with you, Albert. at times I go out without my dog
>> to
>> regain my cane skills. Every time I do, I feel invisible. No one talks to
>> me, I feel like eeveryone's watching me and I'm the slowest person (at
>> least
>> I feel that way anyway). My dog provides me with so much freedom and
>> speed.
>> <smiles>
>> Hope and Beignet
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Mike" <underthetoaster at gmail.com>
>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Monday, June 20, 2011 10:51 AM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] a cane and dog discussion (cane silence)
>>
>>
>> > Hi,
>> > I love how you brought up the silence factor of using a cane. It's one
>> > of
>> > the most irritating things in the world. People yakking away in a
>> > hallway
>> > is fine but then when you get close with your cane they all hold their
>> > breath and clam up like they're scared they're going to get whacked. .
>> > Wouldn't it be a lot smarter if they say something to you so you know
>> > where they are instead of vanishing into silence?
>> > Anyway there are irritating things about canes and dogs. Everybody being
>> >
>> > an expert on dogs and what to feed, how to groom, etc. advice is very
>> > annoying to me. And the usual roster of questions gets old quickly.
>> > Mike
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: "Albert J Rizzi" <albert at myblindspot.org>
>> > To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
>> > <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> > Sent: Monday, June 20, 2011 7:19 AM
>> > Subject: Re: [nagdu] a cane and dog discussion
>> >
>> >
>> >> Hello all,
>> >>
>> >> Was not sure if I were going to chime in here or not. cane versus dog.
>> >> I
>> >> choose dog all the way. as a recent entrant into the community, and in
>> >> assessing my needs from a tactile standpoint, I find the dog much
>> >> better
>> >> as
>> >> well as expeditious for my needs. I find that when my cane taps
>> >> something
>> >> I
>> >> am 99% inclined to reach out and touch whatever it is that is in my
>> >> path.
>> >> I
>> >> do this for my own knowledge of what is on my path and just for the
>> >> curiosity of it all. with my guide none of that ever happens. I could
>> >> be
>> >> walking through an obstacle course full of pot holes or pillars and
>> >> never
>> >> once want to nor need to know what it is I avoided. Add to that the
>> >> issue
>> >> of
>> >> my sighted peers not seeing what they are looking at and again I choose
>> >>
>> >> the
>> >> dog hands down. I had my cane stepped on and snapped three times in my
>> >> first
>> >> 4 months of being blind. that was enough experience for me to not want
>> >> to
>> >> use the cane. The dog for one reason or another catches the eyes of the
>> >> sighted, it minimizes accidental cane breakage and it always opens the
>> >> door
>> >> for a dialogue or discussion where the cane sort of acts like a dome of
>> >> silence which at first glance is impenetrable by the sighted community.
>> >>
>> >> so
>> >> power to the pup for me anyway. Peace.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
>> >> Founder
>> >> My Blind Spot, Inc.
>> >> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
>> >> New York, New York 10004
>> >> www.myblindspot.org
>> >> PH: 917-553-0347
>> >> Fax: 212-858-5759
>> >> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who
>> >>
>> >> is
>> >> doing it."
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> -----Original Message-----
>> >> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> >> Behalf
>> >> Of Sheila Leigland
>> >> Sent: Monday, June 20, 2011 10:06 AM
>> >> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> >> Subject: Re: [nagdu] a cane and dog discussion
>> >>
>> >> I think it depends on the situations that a person deals with daily. I
>> >> do
>> >> much better with a dog in snow and on ice than I did with a cane. I
>> >> used
>> >> a
>> >> cane exclusivily until almost eleven years ago when I got my first
>> >> dog.my
>> >> first dog. I've known cane users that have no interest in getting a dog
>> >>
>> >> and
>> >> that is fine. I don't know people that have lost there cane skills but
>> >> I've
>> >> heard of it..
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> nagdu mailing list
>> >> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> >> nagdu:
>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/albert%40myblindspot.
>> >> org
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> nagdu mailing list
>> >> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> >> nagdu:
>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/underthetoaster%40gmail.com
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > nagdu mailing list
>> > nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> > nagdu:
>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%40gmail.com
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 20
>> Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2011 11:18:26 -0400
>> From: "Margo and Arrow" <margo.downey at verizon.net>
>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] a cane and dog discussion
>> Message-ID: <0AC0995A87264DFEAB0BDF34D6BB4AC9 at meandmyarrow>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1;
>> reply-type=original
>>
>> I was a good cane user prior to getting my first dog. I do keep up cane
>> skills now so that I can successfully use a cane when need be. also, at
>> times, I use my cane with my dog. sometimes, if my dog has worked extra
>> hard, I'll give him time off and heel him and use the cane. this way, he
>> still is with me but doesn't have to work right then. I also use a cane
>> with my dog sometimes when I need to pattern something and don't know
>> quite
>> how to explain things to my dog. for example, when I lived in austin,
>> Texas, to get to Target from my home, at a certain point, the best place
>> to
>> turn to the right was after five telephone poles. Well, my cane and I
>> counted the five poles and we did this a few times and my dog learned to
>> turn right where he was supposed to turn right. In Detroit at an NFb
>> convention, I was confused for some reason about the placement of rooms
>> and
>> such on the fourth floor of the hotel, so, we went to the room, got my
>> cane,
>> went to the fourth floor, and I used the cane to help figure out my
>> confusion.
>>
>> I think most guide dog users use the cane fairly well to very well.
>>
>> I don't think guide dog users are any more independent than cane users.
>>
>> I don't think there is a debate of which is better: cane or dog. Both are
>> useful ways to getting about and have their advantages and perhaps some
>> disadvantages, too. it's up to the person.
>>
>> I do think, however, that a guide dog users needs to have a good grasp
>> (pardon the pun) of cane usage and good orientation prior to getting a
>> guide
>> dog.
>> Margo and Arrow
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Cindy Ray" <cindyray at gmail.com>
>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Monday, June 20, 2011 7:30 AM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] a cane and dog discussion
>>
>>
>> >I used a cane for twenty-five years before getting a dog. I was very
>> >independent with the cane; I am with the dog, though there are some times
>> >
>> >when I don't feel so. I find it a little stressful to find a place to
>> >relieve it when going to a new hotel, though I have also learned that
>> >practice makes perfect. I am beginning to find that there are places
>> > where
>> >the cane would be preferable--when the choir has sung, for instance. I
>> >don't prefer the reaction to the dogs that I get, people interrupting my
>> >discussions at dinner to ask about my dog, for instance, or speaking to
>> > the
>> >dog and not to me. I knew I would feel like this when I got the first
>> > one.
>> >I don't make it a point to practie with the cane any scheduled time
>> > because
>> >I know I don't need to, but for the first few minutes when I do use it,
>> > it
>> >is a little strange after having the dog. For a long time I felt more
>> >independent with the cane to be honest. And I know there are people who
>> >gained confidence using dogs and then that
>> > transferred to the cane, so it is just a wide variety.
>> > Cindy
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > nagdu mailing list
>> > nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> > nagdu:
>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/margo.downey%40verizon.net
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 21
>> Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2011 11:25:04 -0400
>> From: "Albert J Rizzi" <albert at myblindspot.org>
>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
>> Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] a cane and dog discussion (cane silence)
>> Message-ID: <8756C0A57C884888A56136DEABB63120 at JkTC4D1>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>
>> Thanks for letting me know I am not alone on that one Hope. It is so odd
>> to
>> tell you the truth. And then, after they actually see the dog and
>> acknowledge that he is in fact a guide dog, they ask me how long I have
>> been
>> training him? When I tell them I am not training him, but actually relying
>> on him as a skilled and trained service dog, the opportunity to have a
>> meaningful and deliberate conversation on who looks blind and who does
>> not,
>> allows for a breakdown of socially and generationally imposed
>> misperceptions about the blind and who we are. The cane never, never
>> allows
>> that to happen. Well not for me anyway.
>> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
>> Founder
>> My Blind Spot, Inc.
>> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
>> New York, New York 10004
>> www.myblindspot.org
>> PH: 917-553-0347
>> Fax: 212-858-5759
>> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who is
>> doing it."
>>
>>
>> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
>> Of Hope Paulos
>> Sent: Monday, June 20, 2011 11:02 AM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] a cane and dog discussion (cane silence)
>>
>> I couldn't agree more with you, Albert. at times I go out without my dog
>> to
>> regain my cane skills. Every time I do, I feel invisible. No one talks to
>> me, I feel like eeveryone's watching me and I'm the slowest person (at
>> least
>>
>> I feel that way anyway). My dog provides me with so much freedom and
>> speed.
>> <smiles>
>> Hope and Beignet
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Mike" <underthetoaster at gmail.com>
>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Monday, June 20, 2011 10:51 AM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] a cane and dog discussion (cane silence)
>>
>>
>> > Hi,
>> > I love how you brought up the silence factor of using a cane. It's one
>> > of
>> > the most irritating things in the world. People yakking away in a
>> > hallway
>> > is fine but then when you get close with your cane they all hold their
>> > breath and clam up like they're scared they're going to get whacked. .
>> > Wouldn't it be a lot smarter if they say something to you so you know
>> > where they are instead of vanishing into silence?
>> > Anyway there are irritating things about canes and dogs. Everybody being
>> >
>> > an expert on dogs and what to feed, how to groom, etc. advice is very
>> > annoying to me. And the usual roster of questions gets old quickly.
>> > Mike
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: "Albert J Rizzi" <albert at myblindspot.org>
>> > To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
>> > <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> > Sent: Monday, June 20, 2011 7:19 AM
>> > Subject: Re: [nagdu] a cane and dog discussion
>> >
>> >
>> >> Hello all,
>> >>
>> >> Was not sure if I were going to chime in here or not. cane versus dog.
>> >> I
>> >> choose dog all the way. as a recent entrant into the community, and in
>> >> assessing my needs from a tactile standpoint, I find the dog much
>> >> better
>> >> as
>> >> well as expeditious for my needs. I find that when my cane taps
>> >> something
>>
>> >> I
>> >> am 99% inclined to reach out and touch whatever it is that is in my
>> >> path.
>>
>> >> I
>> >> do this for my own knowledge of what is on my path and just for the
>> >> curiosity of it all. with my guide none of that ever happens. I could
>> >> be
>> >> walking through an obstacle course full of pot holes or pillars and
>> >> never
>> >> once want to nor need to know what it is I avoided. Add to that the
>> >> issue
>>
>> >> of
>> >> my sighted peers not seeing what they are looking at and again I choose
>> >>
>> >> the
>> >> dog hands down. I had my cane stepped on and snapped three times in my
>> >> first
>> >> 4 months of being blind. that was enough experience for me to not want
>> >> to
>> >> use the cane. The dog for one reason or another catches the eyes of the
>> >> sighted, it minimizes accidental cane breakage and it always opens the
>> >> door
>> >> for a dialogue or discussion where the cane sort of acts like a dome of
>> >> silence which at first glance is impenetrable by the sighted community.
>> >>
>> >> so
>> >> power to the pup for me anyway. Peace.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
>> >> Founder
>> >> My Blind Spot, Inc.
>> >> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
>> >> New York, New York 10004
>> >> www.myblindspot.org
>> >> PH: 917-553-0347
>> >> Fax: 212-858-5759
>> >> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who
>> >>
>> >> is
>> >> doing it."
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> -----Original Message-----
>> >> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> >> Behalf
>> >> Of Sheila Leigland
>> >> Sent: Monday, June 20, 2011 10:06 AM
>> >> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> >> Subject: Re: [nagdu] a cane and dog discussion
>> >>
>> >> I think it depends on the situations that a person deals with daily. I
>> >> do
>> >> much better with a dog in snow and on ice than I did with a cane. I
>> >> used
>> >> a
>> >> cane exclusivily until almost eleven years ago when I got my first
>> >> dog.my
>> >> first dog. I've known cane users that have no interest in getting a dog
>> >>
>> >> and
>> >> that is fine. I don't know people that have lost there cane skills but
>> >> I've
>> >> heard of it..
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> nagdu mailing list
>> >> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> >> nagdu:
>> >>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/albert%40myblindspot.
>> >> org
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> nagdu mailing list
>> >> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> >> nagdu:
>> >>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/underthetoaster%40gma
>> il.com
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > nagdu mailing list
>> > nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> > nagdu:
>> >
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%40gmail.c
>> om
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nagdu:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/albert%40myblindspot.
>> org
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 22
>> Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2011 11:26:25 -0400
>> From: "Albert J Rizzi" <albert at myblindspot.org>
>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
>> Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] a cane and dog discussion (cane silence)
>> Message-ID: <831DA8D4BA194CDFA25CDC911710557B at JkTC4D1>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>
>> Mike, that is why I thank god for the invention of the delete button. Lol.
>> peace.
>>
>> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
>> Founder
>> My Blind Spot, Inc.
>> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
>> New York, New York 10004
>> www.myblindspot.org
>> PH: 917-553-0347
>> Fax: 212-858-5759
>> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who is
>> doing it."
>>
>>
>> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
>> Of Mike
>> Sent: Monday, June 20, 2011 10:52 AM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] a cane and dog discussion (cane silence)
>>
>> Hi,
>> I love how you brought up the silence factor of using a cane. It's one of
>> the most irritating things in the world. People yakking away in a hallway
>> is
>>
>> fine but then when you get close with your cane they all hold their breath
>>
>> and clam up like they're scared they're going to get whacked. . Wouldn't
>> it
>> be a lot smarter if they say something to you so you know where they are
>> instead of vanishing into silence?
>> Anyway there are irritating things about canes and dogs. Everybody being
>> an
>> expert on dogs and what to feed, how to groom, etc. advice is very
>> annoying
>> to me. And the usual roster of questions gets old quickly.
>> Mike
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Albert J Rizzi" <albert at myblindspot.org>
>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Monday, June 20, 2011 7:19 AM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] a cane and dog discussion
>>
>>
>> > Hello all,
>> >
>> > Was not sure if I were going to chime in here or not. cane versus dog. I
>> > choose dog all the way. as a recent entrant into the community, and in
>> > assessing my needs from a tactile standpoint, I find the dog much better
>> >
>> > as
>> > well as expeditious for my needs. I find that when my cane taps
>> > something
>> > I
>> > am 99% inclined to reach out and touch whatever it is that is in my
>> > path.
>> > I
>> > do this for my own knowledge of what is on my path and just for the
>> > curiosity of it all. with my guide none of that ever happens. I could be
>> > walking through an obstacle course full of pot holes or pillars and
>> > never
>> > once want to nor need to know what it is I avoided. Add to that the
>> > issue
>> > of
>> > my sighted peers not seeing what they are looking at and again I choose
>> > the
>> > dog hands down. I had my cane stepped on and snapped three times in my
>> > first
>> > 4 months of being blind. that was enough experience for me to not want
>> > to
>> > use the cane. The dog for one reason or another catches the eyes of the
>> > sighted, it minimizes accidental cane breakage and it always opens the
>> > door
>> > for a dialogue or discussion where the cane sort of acts like a dome of
>> > silence which at first glance is impenetrable by the sighted community.
>> > so
>> > power to the pup for me anyway. Peace.
>> >
>> >
>> > Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
>> > Founder
>> > My Blind Spot, Inc.
>> > 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
>> > New York, New York 10004
>> > www.myblindspot.org
>> > PH: 917-553-0347
>> > Fax: 212-858-5759
>> > "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who
>> > is
>> > doing it."
>> >
>> >
>> > Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> > Behalf
>> > Of Sheila Leigland
>> > Sent: Monday, June 20, 2011 10:06 AM
>> > To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> > Subject: Re: [nagdu] a cane and dog discussion
>> >
>> > I think it depends on the situations that a person deals with daily. I
>> > do
>> > much better with a dog in snow and on ice than I did with a cane. I used
>> > a
>> > cane exclusivily until almost eleven years ago when I got my first
>> > dog.my
>> > first dog. I've known cane users that have no interest in getting a dog
>> > and
>> > that is fine. I don't know people that have lost there cane skills but
>> > I've
>> > heard of it..
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > nagdu mailing list
>> > nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> > nagdu:
>> >
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/albert%40myblindspot.
>> > org
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > nagdu mailing list
>> > nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> > nagdu:
>> >
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/underthetoaster%40gma
>> il.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nagdu:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/albert%40myblindspot.
>> org
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 23
>> Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2011 15:25:25 +0000
>> From: "PICKRELL, REBECCA M (TASC)" <REBECCA.PICKRELL at tasc.com>
>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
>> Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] a cane and dog discussion (cane silence)
>> Message-ID: <AAE38548E198F64B8E345439B68CCC78125FBBCB at TSEAMB02>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>
>> Interesting response Hope.
>> I used to use a dog, now I use a cane. I found that I move about more
>> easily with the cane, and I can move in more random motions, especially
>> when I am with my daughter and we are looking at something.
>> As for people talking to me, I think people just don't know what to say
>> with a cane. I've never had a problem starting a conversation with
>> anybody.
>> I have also found that I am able to make friends with people who are not
>> dog people.
>> I think the best way I know to think of the cane is like clothing. When I
>> wear my space shuttle jacket, I encounter people who work in or at least
>> follow the space program. I don't seem to encounter these people as
>> readily when I do not have that jacket on. When I'm wearing the shirt of a
>> band I like, I encounter other fans of that band.
>> For those of you who don't like the cane, I wonder if the dislike is
>> somehow conveyed via body language and energy level? People can feel that
>> and respond acordingly. People are attracted to someone who is in their
>> element
>> I wonder if when those of you who don't like the cane are using it also
>> convey the attitude that "I'm not feeling so great today".
>> And, there is nothing wrong with this feeling, we all feel what we feel
>> and like what we like.
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
>> Of Hope Paulos
>> Sent: Monday, June 20, 2011 11:02 AM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] a cane and dog discussion (cane silence)
>>
>> I couldn't agree more with you, Albert. at times I go out without my dog
>> to
>> regain my cane skills. Every time I do, I feel invisible. No one talks to
>> me, I feel like eeveryone's watching me and I'm the slowest person (at
>> least
>> I feel that way anyway). My dog provides me with so much freedom and
>> speed.
>> <smiles>
>> Hope and Beignet
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Mike" <underthetoaster at gmail.com>
>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Monday, June 20, 2011 10:51 AM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] a cane and dog discussion (cane silence)
>>
>>
>> > Hi,
>> > I love how you brought up the silence factor of using a cane. It's one
>> > of
>> > the most irritating things in the world. People yakking away in a
>> > hallway
>> > is fine but then when you get close with your cane they all hold their
>> > breath and clam up like they're scared they're going to get whacked. .
>> > Wouldn't it be a lot smarter if they say something to you so you know
>> > where they are instead of vanishing into silence?
>> > Anyway there are irritating things about canes and dogs. Everybody being
>> >
>> > an expert on dogs and what to feed, how to groom, etc. advice is very
>> > annoying to me. And the usual roster of questions gets old quickly.
>> > Mike
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: "Albert J Rizzi" <albert at myblindspot.org>
>> > To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
>> > <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> > Sent: Monday, June 20, 2011 7:19 AM
>> > Subject: Re: [nagdu] a cane and dog discussion
>> >
>> >
>> >> Hello all,
>> >>
>> >> Was not sure if I were going to chime in here or not. cane versus dog.
>> >> I
>> >> choose dog all the way. as a recent entrant into the community, and in
>> >> assessing my needs from a tactile standpoint, I find the dog much
>> >> better
>> >> as
>> >> well as expeditious for my needs. I find that when my cane taps
>> >> something
>> >> I
>> >> am 99% inclined to reach out and touch whatever it is that is in my
>> >> path.
>> >> I
>> >> do this for my own knowledge of what is on my path and just for the
>> >> curiosity of it all. with my guide none of that ever happens. I could
>> >> be
>> >> walking through an obstacle course full of pot holes or pillars and
>> >> never
>> >> once want to nor need to know what it is I avoided. Add to that the
>> >> issue
>> >> of
>> >> my sighted peers not seeing what they are looking at and again I choose
>> >>
>> >> the
>> >> dog hands down. I had my cane stepped on and snapped three times in my
>> >> first
>> >> 4 months of being blind. that was enough experience for me to not want
>> >> to
>> >> use the cane. The dog for one reason or another catches the eyes of the
>> >> sighted, it minimizes accidental cane breakage and it always opens the
>> >> door
>> >> for a dialogue or discussion where the cane sort of acts like a dome of
>> >> silence which at first glance is impenetrable by the sighted community.
>> >>
>> >> so
>> >> power to the pup for me anyway. Peace.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
>> >> Founder
>> >> My Blind Spot, Inc.
>> >> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
>> >> New York, New York 10004
>> >> www.myblindspot.org
>> >> PH: 917-553-0347
>> >> Fax: 212-858-5759
>> >> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who
>> >>
>> >> is
>> >> doing it."
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> -----Original Message-----
>> >> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> >> Behalf
>> >> Of Sheila Leigland
>> >> Sent: Monday, June 20, 2011 10:06 AM
>> >> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> >> Subject: Re: [nagdu] a cane and dog discussion
>> >>
>> >> I think it depends on the situations that a person deals with daily. I
>> >> do
>> >> much better with a dog in snow and on ice than I did with a cane. I
>> >> used
>> >> a
>> >> cane exclusivily until almost eleven years ago when I got my first
>> >> dog.my
>> >> first dog. I've known cane users that have no interest in getting a dog
>> >>
>> >> and
>> >> that is fine. I don't know people that have lost there cane skills but
>> >> I've
>> >> heard of it..
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> nagdu mailing list
>> >> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> >> nagdu:
>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/albert%40myblindspot.
>> >> org
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> nagdu mailing list
>> >> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> >> nagdu:
>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/underthetoaster%40gmail.com
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > nagdu mailing list
>> > nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> > nagdu:
>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%40gmail.com
>> >
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nagdu:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/rebecca.pickrell%40tasc.com
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 24
>> Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2011 09:08:55 -0700
>> From: Tami Kinney <tamara.8024 at comcast.net>
>> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] [Bulk] a cane and dog discussion
>> Message-ID: <1308586135.1935.6.camel at tamara-desktop>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>>
>> Cheryl,
>>
>> Agreed. I'm still thinking about my answer while I wake up enough to
>> make sense, but I will get to it. But it is a good question, and after
>> all the discussions of the topic I've gotten to read and then answer as
>> i started to figure it out, I still find I learn something new from what
>> other guide dog users have to say in a new discussion. Young guide dog
>> users (by age or by length of guide dog use) will always be asking -- at
>> least the smart ones will.
>>
>> So a guide dog user like Julie and the friend with whom she is
>> discussing the matter will be less likely to be caught flat-footed when
>> her dog gets an owie. As opposed to being one of those people who
>> appears on the news to be quoted as saying, "I can't leave the house
>> without my dog who gives me independence..."
>>
>> On Mon, 2011-06-20 at 06:44 -0400, cheryl echevarria wrote:
>> > Again, she is asking a question, I think it is a fair one.
>> >
>> >
>> > Leading the Way in Independent Travel!
>> >
>> > Cheryl Echevarria
>> > http://www.echevarriatravel.com<http://www.echevarriatravel.com/>
>> > 631-456-5394
>> > reservations at echevarriatravel.com<mailto:reservations at echevarriatravel.com>
>> >
>> > Affiliated as an Independent Contractor with Montrose Travel
>> > CST-1018299-10
>> >
>> > Affiliated as an Independent Contractor with Absolute Cruise & Travel,
>> > Inc.
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: B Avila Guerrero<mailto:guerrero.avila at sbcglobal.net>
>> > To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
>> > Users'<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> > Sent: Monday, June 20, 2011 6:22 AM
>> > Subject: Re: [nagdu] [Bulk] a cane and dog discussion
>> >
>> >
>> > Julie, with all due respect,
>> > What difference does it make what we think? What matters is what works
>> > for
>> > you and how you will travel best, be safe and as independent as you want
>> > to
>> > be.
>> >
>> > I have been on two lists of Dog guide users for the past few months, and
>> > so
>> > far, and I don't mean to insult any one, but what I have found are very
>> > judgmental and opinionated people.
>> >
>> > My advice and take it for what it is worth, work with your dog, your
>> > school
>> > and do what is best for you.
>> > Bertha
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org>
>> > [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
>> > Of Julie McGinnity
>> > Sent: Monday, June 20, 2011 12:46 AM
>> > To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> > Subject: [Bulk] [nagdu] a cane and dog discussion
>> >
>> > Hello everyone.
>> >
>> > It is very late, so I hope I make sense as I pose the following
>> > discussion to you. A friend and I are engaged in an interesting
>> > arguement. We are talking about guide dog users and how much they use
>> > their canes and a few other things. I'd just like to pose a few
>> > questions. (Some of them may seem rather basic.)
>> >
>> > Do you think that guide dog users are just as independent as cane
>> > users when it comes to travelling?
>> >
>> > Do you think you lose cane skills if you use a dog the majority of the
>> > time?
>> >
>> >
>> > Do you think that the majority of dog handlers are bad cane users?
>> >
>> > I know these are really general questions, and if you can't answer
>> > them with direct answers, please, just your observations or
>> > experiences will suffice. I'm just very curious about this. I want
>> > to know what people think, and I don't really want to seem too
>> > invested in this or as though I am taking a side. I'm pretty young
>> > and a relatively new guide dog user, so I know there are things I
>> > don't know and haven't seen yet. I'm more interested in what you guys
>> > say.
>> >
>> > Thanks. Sorry if my late night/early morning ramblings make no sense.
>> >
>> > --
>> > Julie McG
>> > Lindbergh High School class of 2009, participating member in Opera
>> > Theater's Artist in Training Program, and proud graduate of Guiding
>> > Eyes for the Blind
>> >
>> > "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that
>> > everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal
>> > life."
>> > John 3:16
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > nagdu mailing list
>> > nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org>
>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> > nagdu:
>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/guerrero.avila%40sbcg<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/guerrero.avila%40sbcg>
>> > lobal.net
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > nagdu mailing list
>> > nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org>
>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> > nagdu:
>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/cherylandmaxx%40hotmail.com<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/cherylandmaxx%40hotmail.com>
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > nagdu mailing list
>> > nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> > nagdu:
>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/tamara.8024%40comcast.net
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 25
>> Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2011 09:32:13 -0700
>> From: Tami Kinney <tamara.8024 at comcast.net>
>> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] a cane and dog discussion
>> Message-ID: <1308587533.1886.13.camel at tamara-desktop>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>>
>> Dan,
>>
>> You are just plain grouchy. /grin/ Honestly, the cane vs. dog discussion
>> can turn judgmental on all sides in a heartbeat, so grouchiness seems to
>> be a reasonable response to me. /grin/
>>
>> Still... Intelligent discussion is possible, and I'm kind of a nut about
>> free flow of ideas and knowledge and... So now that I'm getting old and
>> jaded, I try to keep a grip and remember that the decision for each
>> individual is an important one, whether it's to go guide dog in the
>> first place or to begin to figure out where your cane does or does not
>> fit in once you've made the switch...
>>
>> Okay, I'm starting to wake up and figure out what I do about O&M when
>> I'm not sitting stupidly in front of my computer... /lol/ Good to see
>> you back on the list.
>>
>> Tami
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, 2011-06-20 at 08:12 -0400, Dan Weiner wrote:
>> > Hi, Julie.
>> >
>> > First of all, welcome to the world of guide dogs.
>> > I've been off the list for some time so I don't know if you've written
>> > about
>> > your experiences so if you haven't , I'd love to hear what prompted you
>> > to
>> > get a guide dog and how it's been.
>> >
>> > My name is Dan Weiner, pronounced to rhyme with "miner"--smile--and I've
>> > used guide dogs for 17 years.
>> >
>> > All right, here's my answer and it may sound like I'm being a grouch:
>> > Who cares--smile.
>> > This cane and dog controversy has been around for years and years and I
>> > honestly couldn't care less about the answer to those questions.
>> > What works for one person doesn't work for another... I don't judge
>> > people
>> > on their O and M skills so much as on what type of person they are,
>> > unlike,
>> > it would seem, a lot of my fellow blind people.
>> >
>> > If people get a dog, it's obvious that for some reason the cane wasn't
>> > doing
>> > it for them.
>> >
>> > If they decide to use a cane, then it's clear that they for some reason
>> > don't want or need a dog--lol.
>> >
>> > Now, in real life I'm a very nice person, so don't let my answer turn
>> > you
>> > off--smile.
>> >
>> >
>> > Dan and the Carter Dog
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > nagdu mailing list
>> > nagdu at nfbnet.org
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>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 26
>> Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2011 10:47:51 -0600
>> From: Sheila Leigland <sleigland at bresnan.net>
>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] a cane and dog discussion (cane silence)
>> Message-ID: <auto-000288653173 at fe-2.cluster1.bresnan.net>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>
>> Mike, your right about that. Advice gets old. When I retired my first dog
>> and went back to the cane until I could get a new dog, the only
>> conversations at work were where is your dog. It seemed without my dog
>> noone spoke much to me. It's painful to know that if you carry a cane it
>> seems to make you somehow not approachaaable.
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
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>>
>> End of nagdu Digest, Vol 75, Issue 24
>> *************************************
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