[nagdu] booties

Dan Weiner dcwein at dcwein.cnc.net
Fri Jun 24 19:56:15 UTC 2011


Sorry to all, that was a mistake, I thought it was a different Wayne, please
don't be sore.
I remember now, you're Wayne with Goochie?

I was mistaken, something which even happens to  perfect  people like yours
truly--lol.

Dan



-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Wayne Merritt
Sent: Friday, June 24, 2011 3:48 PM
To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] booties

If you went to a guide dog school, then they may have booties you can
buy or maybe they can recommend places to get them at. I've heard that
Ruff Ware sells booties, and I think their address is:
www.ruffware.com

You might also find them at your local major pet store, like Pets Mart or
Petco.

Good luck,
Wayne

On 6/24/11, Dan Weiner <dcwein at dcwein.cnc.net> wrote:
> Where is a good place to get booties for our dogs?
> I'm thinking of trying them out because of the hot sidewalks.
> Dan
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Tara Chavez
> Sent: Friday, June 24, 2011 1:18 PM
> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] question about convention and booties.
>
> Hello all,
> I have a couple of questions. I am currently debating whether or not to
take
> my guide dog with me to convention. I've heard opinions on both sides and
> wonder what most people do.
> I've heard not to take her because I'd end up stressing her out more, plus
> I'd be worrying more about her and less likely to have fun at convention.
> I've also heard that I should take her (or at least I think I should)
> because of the experience of traveling and navigating the hotel and all
that
> with her by my side. I am curious what a lot of people do. I know as a
guide
> dog user that I am proud of that and I want the world to know that I have
a
> wonderful companion... Thoughts?
> My other questions is about booties. I used them a lot last year when I
> first came home, but not a whole lot since. Now that it's getting into the
> 90's and up, I want to be able to work my dog in booties, but she gets
> stressed when I put them on. I've tried putting them on and feeding her
> dinner, since that was a suggestion from GDB when I asked them. I've also
> tried clickering her for allowing me to put them on her, but she has been
so
> stressed that she won't accept even high-value reward. Any suggestions? I
> can't not work my dog because of the heat, can I?
> Thank you,
> Tara
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of nagdu-request at nfbnet.org
> Sent: Friday, June 24, 2011 11:00 AM
> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
> Subject: nagdu Digest, Vol 75, Issue 28
>
> Send nagdu mailing list submissions to
> 	nagdu at nfbnet.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> 	http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> 	nagdu-request at nfbnet.org
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> 	nagdu-owner at nfbnet.org
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of nagdu digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Question about raffle for Trekker Breeze (Hope Paulos)
>    2. Re: Question about raffle for Trekker Breeze (Buddy Brannan)
>    3. Re: Question about raffle for Trekker Breeze (Hope Paulos)
>    4. Re: Question about raffle for Trekker Breeze (Marion Gwizdala)
>    5. Re: Question about raffle for Trekker Breeze (Marion Gwizdala)
>    6. Re: Different types of dogs (Tami Kinney)
>    7. Re: [Flagdu] what the NFB Should Do! (Dan Weiner)
>    8. Re: DIFFERENT TYPES OF DOGS (Tami Kinney)
>    9. Re: what the NFB Should Do! (Tami Kinney)
>   10. Re: Question about raffle for Trekker Breeze (Tami Kinney)
>   11. Re: [Flagdu] what the NFB Should Do! (Tami Kinney)
>   12. Re: Question about raffle for Trekker Breeze (Buddy Brannan)
>   13. Re: Question about raffle for Trekker Breeze (Tami Kinney)
>   14. . O-T: Blind People are Faking it. (Arthur Nolden)
>   15. Re: . O-T: Blind People are Faking it. (Sean Moore)
>   16. Re: Question about raffle for Trekker Breeze (cheryl echevarria)
>   17. Re: . O-T: Blind People are Faking it. (Julie Phillipson)
>   18. Re: . O-T: Blind People are Faking it. (Tami Kinney)
>   19. Re: . O-T: Blind People are Faking it. (cheryl echevarria)
>   20. Re: Question about raffle for Trekker Breeze (Marion Gwizdala)
>   21. Cloning (Tracy Carcione)
>   22. Re: Cloning (PICKRELL, REBECCA M (TASC))
>   23. Success stats (Tracy Carcione)
>   24. Re: Cloning (Tami Kinney)
>   25. Re: Success stats (Tami Kinney)
>   26. Re: Success stats (Sheila Leigland)
>   27. Re: . O-T: Blind People are Faking it. (Margo and Arrow)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2011 14:37:45 -0400
> From: "Hope Paulos" <hope.paulos at gmail.com>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,	the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> 	<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: [nagdu] Question about raffle for Trekker Breeze
> Message-ID: <6B86F91030FB44F6AE73B7A433F26478 at Espy>
> Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Hi all. I don't know who sent the information for winning the Trekker
Breeze
> from Nagdu, but I have a question. Are those of us who are not attending
> convention eligible to win? If so, how can we submit payment and have
> tickets filled out?
> Thanks.
> Hope and Beignet
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2011 14:52:39 -0400
> From: Buddy Brannan <buddy at brannan.name>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,	the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> 	<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Question about raffle for Trekker Breeze
> Message-ID: <35856142-62E1-4EEE-B450-71702C4DA917 at brannan.name>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> Hi,
>
> Go to the NAGDU site. You can buy tickets there, and there's even a handy
> Paypal link.
> --
> Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
> Phone: (814) 860-3194 or 888-75-BUDDY
>
>
>
> On Jun 23, 2011, at 2:37 PM, Hope Paulos wrote:
>
>> Hi all. I don't know who sent the information for winning the Trekker
> Breeze from Nagdu, but I have a question. Are those of us who are not
> attending convention eligible to win? If so, how can we submit payment and
> have tickets filled out?
>> Thanks.
>> Hope and Beignet
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nagdu:
>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/buddy%40brannan.name
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2011 15:25:26 -0400
> From: "Hope Paulos" <hope.paulos at gmail.com>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,	the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> 	<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Question about raffle for Trekker Breeze
> Message-ID: <B192608FE5C8458AA68DB537300A3308 at Espy>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> 	reply-type=original
>
> Thanks Buddy. Again, you're a life-saver. :)
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Buddy Brannan" <buddy at brannan.name>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2011 2:52 PM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Question about raffle for Trekker Breeze
>
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Go to the NAGDU site. You can buy tickets there, and there's even a handy
>> Paypal link.
>> --
>> Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
>> Phone: (814) 860-3194 or 888-75-BUDDY
>>
>>
>>
>> On Jun 23, 2011, at 2:37 PM, Hope Paulos wrote:
>>
>>> Hi all. I don't know who sent the information for winning the Trekker
>>> Breeze from Nagdu, but I have a question. Are those of us who are not
>>> attending convention eligible to win? If so, how can we submit payment
>>> and have tickets filled out?
>>> Thanks.
>>> Hope and Beignet
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nagdu mailing list
>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nagdu:
>>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/buddy%40brannan.name
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nagdu:
>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%40gmail.c
> om
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2011 15:27:39 -0400
> From: "Marion Gwizdala" <blind411 at verizon.net>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,	the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> 	<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Question about raffle for Trekker Breeze
> Message-ID: <440C123849064754B6CFE0901F9B002B at marion27df4b2a>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1;
> 	reply-type=original
>
> Hope,
>     We attempted to make entries available through Pay pal; however, they
do
>
> not allow raffles and shut it down. We are working to get our account
> re-activated so we can collect membership dues. The challenge we would
face
> selling tickets outside of convention is how to accept payment. next year,
> we will have learned how to use Pay Pal without breaching our user
> agreement. If you have any suggestions as to how we can sell tickets
without
>
> using Pay Pal, please feel free to make suggestions. We are open to
allowing
>
> anyone who wants to support our projects the opportunity to do so!
>
> Fraternally yours,
> Marion Gwizdala, President
> National Association of Guide Dog Users (NAGDU)
> National Federation of the Blind
> 813-626-2789
> President at NAGDU.ORG
> HTTP://WWW.NAGDU.ORG
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Hope Paulos" <hope.paulos at gmail.com>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2011 2:37 PM
> Subject: [nagdu] Question about raffle for Trekker Breeze
>
>
>> Hi all. I don't know who sent the information for winning the Trekker
>> Breeze from Nagdu, but I have a question. Are those of us who are not
>> attending convention eligible to win? If so, how can we submit payment
and
>
>> have tickets filled out?
>> Thanks.
>> Hope and Beignet
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nagdu:
>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/blind411%40verizon.ne
> t
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2011 15:28:54 -0400
> From: "Marion Gwizdala" <blind411 at verizon.net>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,	the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> 	<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Question about raffle for Trekker Breeze
> Message-ID: <C132140FEFD44563B2E062079C3E80AC at marion27df4b2a>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1;
> 	reply-type=original
>
> Buddy,
>     Unfortunately, we had to shut down that option, as Pay Pal suspended
our
>
> account! You were one of the few that got in before this happened. now we
> are working to access those funds!
>
> Marion
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Buddy Brannan" <buddy at brannan.name>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2011 2:52 PM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Question about raffle for Trekker Breeze
>
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Go to the NAGDU site. You can buy tickets there, and there's even a handy
>> Paypal link.
>> --
>> Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
>> Phone: (814) 860-3194 or 888-75-BUDDY
>>
>>
>>
>> On Jun 23, 2011, at 2:37 PM, Hope Paulos wrote:
>>
>>> Hi all. I don't know who sent the information for winning the Trekker
>>> Breeze from Nagdu, but I have a question. Are those of us who are not
>>> attending convention eligible to win? If so, how can we submit payment
>>> and have tickets filled out?
>>> Thanks.
>>> Hope and Beignet
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nagdu mailing list
>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nagdu:
>>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/buddy%40brannan.name
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nagdu:
>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/blind411%40verizon.ne
> t
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2011 12:55:51 -0700
> From: Tami Kinney <tamara.8024 at comcast.net>
> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Different types of dogs
> Message-ID: <1308858951.2044.12.camel at tamara-desktop>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> Mardi,
>
> Just remember to collect and save some genetic material from Nala.
> Cloning technology is improving, and costs are coming down as R&D
> expenses are paid off. Unlike the adaptive tech market in a lot of areas
> still.  But that's another matter.  I'm glad someone else will admit to
> seriously wanting to do that.  /lol/  Blurting that out in conversation
> can generate awkward silence broken by strangled stutterings.  I havent'
> checked for awhile, but cloning is probably still beyond the means of
> the likes of you and I... By the time I need to start looking for
> Mitzi's successor, though, who knows? If it is possible for me to take
> that route, who knows what I will decide, really?  She's only 5, and
> genetic health problems could still show up (I'm in denial about that),
> etc.  Physically, she is healthy and sound, except for some early issues
> from bugs, not genes.  Her temperament is fantastic, and I love her
> poodly brains and even obstinance at work, home and play.  Also, as I
> keep telling her, she will be helping me raise herself, so that's
> vengeance for me for her puppyhood.  /lol/  She grins and wags her tail
> as if I am being silly.  Whether she knows what I am saying or not (I
> really do wonder sometimes even when she can't possibly), I get the
> impression she generally assumes that if I am talking, I am just being
> silly for her amusement.  I then begin to wonder if I am a masochist
> when it comes to guide dogs.  /lol/
>
> The greater choice in breed and individual is a big plus to
> owner-training.  Except for the part where you're looking for the right
> pup from the breed you've selected, which is really nerve-wracking and
> can take a lot of time.  Unless you're lucky, which seems to have
> happened to me with Mitzi.  Maybe that's another reason I just want to
> clone her when the time comes.  I don't have to turn myself into a wreck
> wondering if I will find that elusive new prospect in a puppy...  Scary
> stuff, that! /smile/
>
> Glad Shaman is doing well and progressing.  He must be pretty adult,
> too, by now and building up experience. That's when it starts to be real
> fun. /grin/
>
> On Wed, 2011-06-22 at 17:29 -0700, Mardi Hadfield wrote:
>> Hi all,  If you need a guide dog and go to a school to get it, you
> probably
>> don't have a lot of choice in what breed of dog you want. You may be able
> to
>> state a preference,but that is no guarantee that you will actually get
> what
>> you asked for. I think that for a first time  dog user, it is wise to let
>> the school match you with the dog that they feel is best for you.Maybe on
>> your second time you can get the kind of dog you want as you will have
the
>> experience of already working with a dog. Of course this is just my
>> opinion,but to me it makes sense. On the other hand, if you are an owner
>> trainer and have a certain preference, go for it!My chosen breed is the
>> Siberian Husky. This is not the breed for every one! There are many cons
> and
>> some pros. For me, I needed a dog that could keep up with my power
>> wheelchair and my very active life style.A breed that did not tire easily
>> and could go all day. The husky fit the bill for me.Since I already had a
>> husky service dog,I just trained her as a guide dog. She was a wonderful
>> guide but had to be retired early as she got Vally Fever. This is a
> disease
>> limited to the southwest. She died unexpectedly a month after her
>> retirement.I was lucky to have found another Husky to train as my next
>> guide. This dog has been an exceptional guide dog. She has gone above and
>> beyond as a guide dog.I don't expect to find another like her.I wish I
> could
>> have her cloned,but my finances being what they are,well it's just not
>> possible. When I was looking for another dog to take over for Nala so she
>> could retire, I just could not find a husky that could do the job. After
>> trying several that "washed out",I expanded my search to other breeds. I
>> found a Belgian Shepherd that had been rescued from a shelter. He was the
>> one that worked out. He has become a wonderful guide. We had a few
> setbacks
>> in the beginning but he has worked out very well.To date, Nala,my second
>> Husky has been the best guide I have ever had,but with time,who knows.
>> Shaman may become just as good. He is excellent when it comes to traffic
>> checks, and has already saved my butt several times!  Different people
> have
>> different needs when it comes to guide dogs. Some need fast dogs,some
need
>> slower dogs. I consider myself very lucky to have found dogs of the
breeds
>> that I like and had them become wonderful guides.But If I were to go to a
>> school to get a dog sometime in the future, I would probably take
whatever
>> dog they matched me with as it is unlikely that I would get a Husky.Have
a
>> great day,  Mardi andShaman and Nala,retired.
>>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2011 16:00:30 -0400
> From: "Dan Weiner" <dcwein at dcwein.cnc.net>
> To: "'Florida Association of Guide Dog Users'" <flagdu at nfbnet.org>,
> 	"'NAGDU List'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>, <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>,
> "'NFB
> 	Chapter presidents'" <chapter-presidents at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: marion.gwizdala at verizon.net
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] [Flagdu] what the NFB Should Do!
> Message-ID: <20110623200036.D2A959ABD at tonnant.cnc.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="US-ASCII"
>
> Well, I suppose in that case people really don't know aht to do to make
> government have different priorities, that's not just about blind people.
>
> It's easy to see a problem but knowing what to do about it is always a
> tricky thing.
>
> I'm not, of course, saying that people shouldn't join the organized blind
> movement--smile--just telling you what I think.
> People feel powerless.  Especially we blind people have spent most of our
> lives being told not to do this or not to do that or we can't do things.
>
>
> Dan W. and the Carter Dog
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2011 13:02:01 -0700
> From: Tami Kinney <tamara.8024 at comcast.net>
> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] DIFFERENT TYPES OF DOGS
> Message-ID: <1308859321.2044.18.camel at tamara-desktop>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> Oh! thanks for telling me so. As you may have guessed I love going about
> my dog, dogs, my dog, every dog I've ever met... So I'm always glad when
> my ramblings turn out to actually be helpful to someone. /smile/
>
> It's all my own experience and what I've picked up from others or other
> dogs I've had, more and more informed by my growing experience as a
> guide dog user.  So I'm better at evaluating pros and cons of the
> various breed and type options in light of what I want in a guide.
>
> I've liked hearing what most others have said on the matter of
> preference itself.  It is very, very individual when it comes right down
> to it.
>
> The even more important thing is the individual dog we are matched with
> or end up with meets our needs in a way that enhances our lives.  Which
> seems to happen most of the time, so that's a good thing.  Glad you're
> enjoying your pup and life as a guide dog handler!
>
> On Wed, 2011-06-22 at 17:47 -0700, Brittney N. Mejico wrote:
>> Tami ,
>> Thanks very informative!
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Tami Kinney
>> Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2011 2:56 PM
>> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] DIFFERENT TYPES OF DOGS
>>
>> Brittney,
>>
>> Were you also informed which preference you were supposed to
>> have?  /evil grin/
>>
>> I thought the whole poodle as guide dog notion was pretty iffy when I
>> first heard of it, but ended up putting in some time, energy and expense
>> getting my hands on one anyway for practical reasons.  Now I can't
>> understand why everybody else isn't running around demanding poodle
>> guides... Until I remember that poodles are, you know, poodles.
>> Definitely an acquired taste, but addictive once you get hooked.  Unless
>> you want a quiet life, free of excitement and strife.  The lack of
>> shedding is a big plus in a lot of ways, but the cost of grooming is not
>> easy on a budget.  If you try to save now and then by stretching out
>> time between trims, you find yourself doing nothing but grooming the
>> poodle.  Well, Mitzi has the soft, thick, fine coat and an extra measure
>> of it at that, so it is absolutely gorgeous and wonerful to the touch
>> while being absolutely impossible to keep free of industrial-grade
>> snarls close to the skin if you don't keep on it.  Also, the poodle does
>> nto appear to be constructed to curl up in a tidy ball that will fit
>> neatly under even a really big chair, so it you're uptight about the
>> finer points of etiquette, a girl can really stress herself out about
>> that until she finally gives up and loosens up and finds a way to
>> achieve the same goals in a way that will actually work.  /lol/  From
>> what I hear, bear-sized labs will curl up into tidy balls that will fit
>> under toddler chairs and be perfectly comfortable doing it.  I'm
>> exaggerating, but I've heard of folks with 90 pound labs that will fit
>> places I have not been able to stuff my poodle to begin with, and even
>> then bits of her start popping out like they've been spring-loaded, so I
>> have driven myself nuts on the bus and train desperately trying to round
>> up legs and noses and stubby tails enough for 7 dogs!  She would be
>> trying to comply but she sure would sigh a lot. Also, she has a huge
>> need to watch *everything* so our rules for keeping her out of the way
>> and safe including her being positioned where she can do that without
>> moving around.  She's a super-mellow poodle, so I am routinely assurred,
>> but she is still a poodle.  That same vigilance and curiosity works out
>> wonderfully when we're on the go, so I don't mind adjusting our seating
>> arrangements to keep her from getting twitchy.  /smile/
>>
>> I've always had a yen for a sheperd guide and I still think they're
>> still pretty high on my list.  The only thing that that breed loses
>> points over is their shedding and tendency to be a bit harder on people
>> with sensitivities to dander because of its pH or something... I
>> wouldn't let that last part stop me getting one, but the shedding itself
>> seems a bit daunting now that I'm spoiled.  Not having a budget crunch
>> from profressional grooming all the time would be a big plus, that's for
>> sure!  I might take on shaving and trimming a companion poodle myself,
>> but my professional dog requires a professional haircut.
>>
>> Dobies also thrill me, for many of the same reasons GSDs do, only with
>> shorter hair and less shedding and brushing. I'm lazy, so when Mitzi's
>> curls are shorn and I can just wipe her off with a damp cloth to spiif
>> her up for the most refined restaurant dining, I am happy as can be with
>> that arrangement.  Dobie guide users speak of doing that with the dobie
>> coat, so big, big plus!
>>
>> I would like a dog with less adorability and perhaps a bit more of a
>> back-off quality and a rep to add some encouragement.  Mitzi has a
>> pretty intense stare, but it just doesn't have the same effect on people
>> as it does when it comes from what looks like a guard/police dog.  Here,
>> at least.  The dirty little secret about poodles is that they're used as
>> guard dogs in other countries because they're a lot like dobies and
>> shepherds that way.  It's something to bear in mind, especially in
>> choosing a poodle for guide work or anything else, really, since people
>> who have encountered bad-tempered poodles are scared to death of the
>> things.  They can turn nasty if the temperament is not respected in
>> treatment and training.  Statistically, they're responsible for more dog
>> bites than pit bulls.  That includes the smaller types, too, I guess,
>> and those are more prone to temperament problems due to irresponsible
>> breeders.  Sigh.  Anyway, Mitzi is, in a lot of way, a woolly doberman
>> that just doesn't scare people because she's so cu-ute.  She does have,
>> I have been told a very severe back-off look, but she seems to be more
>> likely to use her direct stare and exotic dark eyes to draw people in
>> and take control of their minds so that they will do whatever she wants
>> them to. /lol/ I've never been able to see her eyes, really, and see her
>> in my mind as not having any, but I can feel that stare and fall victim
>> to its power.  Still, there are times it would be handy to have an
>> equally nonaggressive dog that could scare people off properly just by
>> looking at them.  Mitzi has become quite the pro at dealing with all the
>> attention and reaching hands with grace and composure, and we've worked
>> out ways to keep it from getting out of hand, but...  It would be nice
>> to have my dog admired from a safe distance by people who are inspired
>> to keep their hands to themselves.  /smile/
>>
>> Labs come in lower on the preference list simply because I like the
>> herding/guarding breeds better, either as guides or as companions.  I
>> like labs and just get giddy around my labbie friends and family -- my
>> sister has a 106 lb. black lab Mitzi's age, and he is just so awesome
>> and very labby in his manner and personality.  Out of habit, when I
>> stood beside him, I held my hand over his back to measure him for a
>> harness...  I would have to be a lot taller. He is a way cool dog and
>> just love him.  But if someone were to offer me the choice between his
>> exact clone and, say, a dobie or shepherd or poodle, I'd pick the other
>> dog.  Still, labs will start moving up my preference scale at some point
>> for the very traits that make them so popular and numerous.  In fact, by
>> then I will no doubt be wanting an extra mellow, laid back, easy lab
>> guide, and I will love having a lab around because they really are
>> wonderful dogs.
>>
>> I just happen to prefer my super-alert, active, busy, difficult poodle
>> and want something along the same lines in case she doesn't obey the
>> live-forever command and I don't get her cloned.  /lol/
>>
>> I don't know if that is in any way informative, but I always love these
>> questions because I learn so much about other handlers and the
>> differences between breeds and inviduals. So I'll shut up and get to
>> reading.
>>
>> On Mon, 2011-06-20 at 16:21 -0700, Brittney N. Mejico wrote:
>> > hello everyone,
>> > I always wanted to ask.  Does the breed of dog you use as a guide
> matter?
>> > I know some guide dog users are really particular about a certain breed
>> > and others don?t care?  Why is this?  Before I got my guide people
asked
>
>> > me what type of dog I wanted  and I would ask, ?should I have a
>> > preference?? and I was told that I shouldn??t care.  Before I start
>> > rambleing  I just want to know the difference in different breeds?
>> > _______________________________________________ nagdu mailing list
>> > nagdu at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>
>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> > nagdu:
>> >
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/tamara.8024%40comcast
> .net
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nagdu:
>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/brittneymejico%40veri
> zon.net
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nagdu:
>>
>
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> .net
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2011 13:32:44 -0700
> From: Tami Kinney <tamara.8024 at comcast.net>
> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] what the NFB Should Do!
> Message-ID: <1308861164.2044.30.camel at tamara-desktop>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> Marion, et al.,
>
> Agreed, re: article and well-said.  I appreciate the humor and the
> expression of thanks to the doers, whether it's the bits or the bites we
> contribute... While also making a strong statement.  /smile/
>
> As I learn more about the organization -- and thus its warts and those
> of some of its people or even groups within the larger organization -- I
> keep hearing a long ago boss and mentor from my early career: Never go
> to the boss with a complaint without also having at least one solution
> to offer.  Good advice from a wise woman! Having a solution to a problem
> is much easier in the context of your job and department or company than
> with a large member organization like the NFB, and at least one
> organizational wart really sticks in my craw, making it easy to feel
> whiney and powerless... But I know how much good I've gotten out of the
> past work and the current work, so I am more motivated to do my little
> bits to contribute... Very small bits! But those little things to keep
> entertained enough to avoid complaining to adamantly about things I
> would like to see done or changed, because then I would feel obligated
> to help be part of the solution...  That thought does shut me up fairly
> often.  Don't know if that's what my mentor had in mind, but if you're
> afraid to complain you do have more time to do other things. /lol/
>
> On Thu, 2011-06-23 at 10:08 -0400, Margo and Arrow wrote:
>> It's called taking ownership.  marion, well-said email and like Cindy, I
>> think you might want to consider expanding it to a Monitor article.
>>
>> Margo and Arrow
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Cindy Ray" <cindyray at gmail.com>
>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2011 9:49 AM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] what the NFB Should Do!
>>
>>
>> > Marion, I think that was well said. I think you should enlarge upon it
> and
>> > make a Monitor article out of it. I know that variations have been done
>> > before, but we can't hear it often enough.
>> >
>> > Cindy
>> >
>> > On Jun 23, 2011, at 8:09 AM, Marion Gwizdala wrote:
>> >
>> >> Dear All,
>> >>    Please excuse this cross-posting but I think it is important enough
>> >> that I wanted to share it with as many of you as possible. When I
speak
>
>> >> with many blind people who find out I am a leader in the Federation, I
>> >> often have them say, "The NFB should ...". You can fill in the blank
> with
>> >> a myriad of suggestions of what needs to be done to improve the lives
> of
>> >> the blind. Generally, my response is, "Are you a member of the NFB?"
> The
>> >> most frequent answer is "No!" This opens the door for me to share that
>> >> the Federation is a membership organization -  a grass roots Movement
> in
>> >> which each member must be actively involved in order for us to improve
>> >> our lives. It is not dr. Maurer; it is not the Board of Directors; it
> is
>> >> not the people who work at the National Center for the Blind; it is
not
>
>> >> our divisions, our affiliates, or our chapters! It is each and every
>> >> member of the movement! I then invite them to become a member of the
> NFB
>> >> and hear the same tired excuses of not being a joiner, not
>> > having enough time, not wanting to choose sides, not agreeing with the
>> > philosophy, yah dah yah dah yah dah yawn! "In other words," I say, "you
>> > want someone else to solve your problems for you and are unwilling to
>> > help. Is that right?" Of course, they think I am a rude, obnoxious,
>> > belligerent Federationist, what my wife and I would call "C.B." -
>> > Confirmation Bias - the bias that "All Federationists are (fill in the
>> > blank!" and this experience confirms this belief!
>> >>    I praise those of you who have joined me in our effort to improve
> the
>> >> lives of the blind. You have not made it someone else's problem to
> solve;
>> >> you have made it yours! To paraphrase the words of Mahatma Gandhi ,
> "You
>> >> are the change you want to see in the world!" Thank you for your
> service
>> >> and for joining me on the barricades! On to Orlando!
>> >>
>> >> Fraternally yours,
>> >> Marion Gwizdala, President
>> >> National Association of Guide Dog Users (NAGDU)
>> >> National Federation of the Blind
>> >> 813-626-2789
>> >> President at NAGDU.ORG
>> >> HTTP://WWW.NAGDU.ORG
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> nagdu mailing list
>> >> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> >> nagdu:
>> >>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/cindyray%40gmail.com
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > nagdu mailing list
>> > nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> > nagdu:
>> >
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/margo.downey%40verizo
> n.net
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nagdu:
>>
>
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> .net
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 10
> Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2011 13:38:25 -0700
> From: Tami Kinney <tamara.8024 at comcast.net>
> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Question about raffle for Trekker Breeze
> Message-ID: <1308861505.2044.35.camel at tamara-desktop>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> Hope and Buddy,
>
> I'm afraid we had to remove the PayPal button from the site... Turns out
> they don't allow using their service for raffles, so now we know.  But
> for this year, we've had to make adjustments.  Those who paid through
> PayPal before they informed us how very displeased they are do have the
> tickets they bought and paid for. We're planning and researching how to
> deal with some of those fundraising activities through the website for
> everyone's convenience.
>
> Hope, if you want to know more, you can contact Marion at
> president at nagdu.org or Toni Whaley at treasurer at nagdu.org to see if you
> can still get tickets.  Come to think of it, it passed off my radar when
> we decided to not use the website until we had a solution next year.
> But I still want that Breeze! /smile/
>
> On Thu, 2011-06-23 at 14:52 -0400, Buddy Brannan wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> Go to the NAGDU site. You can buy tickets there, and there's even a handy
> Paypal link.
>> --
>> Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
>> Phone: (814) 860-3194 or 888-75-BUDDY
>>
>>
>>
>> On Jun 23, 2011, at 2:37 PM, Hope Paulos wrote:
>>
>> > Hi all. I don't know who sent the information for winning the Trekker
> Breeze from Nagdu, but I have a question. Are those of us who are not
> attending convention eligible to win? If so, how can we submit payment and
> have tickets filled out?
>> > Thanks.
>> > Hope and Beignet
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > nagdu mailing list
>> > nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nagdu:
>> >
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/buddy%40brannan.name
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nagdu:
>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/tamara.8024%40comcast
> .net
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 11
> Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2011 13:56:54 -0700
> From: Tami Kinney <tamara.8024 at comcast.net>
> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] [Flagdu] what the NFB Should Do!
> Message-ID: <1308862614.2044.47.camel at tamara-desktop>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> Yeah, I'm pretty new to be told that kind of crap all the time, so I
> just keep on getting real mad and obstinate.  But I started noticing way
> too early on how often the constant battery would affect my thinking and
> decision-making, even though i know better!  I am amazed -- and fairly
> weary -- by how much work I have to put in just to keep myself from
> starting to assume all those negative things about myself just because
> I'm blind.
>
> That experience does give me a greater appreciation for anyone who has
> been told that from childhood on for just getting up in the morning!
> Especially from my own age range and on.  I realize that whatever the
> pros and cons of progressive vision loss, with the crossover to using
> noticeable adaptive methods and tools, the biggest benefit to me over my
> lifetime until earlier this century has been that people weren't
> treating me like I was blind! Also, driving and reading print a page at
> a glance provided many opportunities to go, do, learn which are more
> difficult and time-consuming now.  So that's something I have benefited
> from especially in the context of my own generation.  But i thought the
> way girls and women were treated then was bad and oppressive... Then I
> picked up a new skinny white friend in the 21st century, when women can
> do stuff like think and make decisions officially, and discovered what
> *real* oppression is like.  Then I started learning how much better
> things are now!  Yikes!  Well, they're getting better all the time,
> because we're all just soldiering on together and each in our way, so
> the adventure continues.
>
> Still, I can't truly grasp some of the attitudes of blind people toward
> blindness, towards other blind people and towards themselves,
>
> On Thu, 2011-06-23 at 16:00 -0400, Dan Weiner wrote:
>> Well, I suppose in that case people really don't know aht to do to make
>> government have different priorities, that's not just about blind people.
>>
>> It's easy to see a problem but knowing what to do about it is always a
>> tricky thing.
>>
>> I'm not, of course, saying that people shouldn't join the organized blind
>> movement--smile--just telling you what I think.
>> People feel powerless.  Especially we blind people have spent most of our
>> lives being told not to do this or not to do that or we can't do things.
>>
>>
>> Dan W. and the Carter Dog
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nagdu:
>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/tamara.8024%40comcast
> .net
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 12
> Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2011 17:10:14 -0400
> From: Buddy Brannan <buddy at brannan.name>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,	the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> 	<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Question about raffle for Trekker Breeze
> Message-ID: <3A19B225-D79A-4497-9F65-264DCAB3F698 at brannan.name>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> So wait. I was able to buy tickets with Paypal and got a payment
> confirmation, so did I get them or am I outa luck?
> --
> Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
> Phone: (814) 860-3194 or 888-75-BUDDY
>
>
>
> On Jun 23, 2011, at 4:38 PM, Tami Kinney wrote:
>
>> Hope and Buddy,
>>
>> I'm afraid we had to remove the PayPal button from the site... Turns out
>> they don't allow using their service for raffles, so now we know.  But
>> for this year, we've had to make adjustments.  Those who paid through
>> PayPal before they informed us how very displeased they are do have the
>> tickets they bought and paid for. We're planning and researching how to
>> deal with some of those fundraising activities through the website for
>> everyone's convenience.
>>
>> Hope, if you want to know more, you can contact Marion at
>> president at nagdu.org or Toni Whaley at treasurer at nagdu.org to see if you
>> can still get tickets.  Come to think of it, it passed off my radar when
>> we decided to not use the website until we had a solution next year.
>> But I still want that Breeze! /smile/
>>
>> On Thu, 2011-06-23 at 14:52 -0400, Buddy Brannan wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> Go to the NAGDU site. You can buy tickets there, and there's even a
handy
> Paypal link.
>>> --
>>> Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
>>> Phone: (814) 860-3194 or 888-75-BUDDY
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Jun 23, 2011, at 2:37 PM, Hope Paulos wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi all. I don't know who sent the information for winning the Trekker
> Breeze from Nagdu, but I have a question. Are those of us who are not
> attending convention eligible to win? If so, how can we submit payment and
> have tickets filled out?
>>>> Thanks.
>>>> Hope and Beignet
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nagdu:
>>>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/buddy%40brannan.name
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nagdu mailing list
>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nagdu:
>>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/tamara.8024%40comcast
> .net
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nagdu:
>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/buddy%40brannan.name
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 13
> Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2011 14:38:01 -0700
> From: Tami Kinney <tamara.8024 at comcast.net>
> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Question about raffle for Trekker Breeze
> Message-ID: <1308865081.2044.49.camel at tamara-desktop>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> Buddy, you are in the running for the Breeze, no worries. As is anyone
> else who paid before we had to cease and desist. Sorry for the
> confusion!
>
> On Thu, 2011-06-23 at 17:10 -0400, Buddy Brannan wrote:
>> So wait. I was able to buy tickets with Paypal and got a payment
> confirmation, so did I get them or am I outa luck?
>> --
>> Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
>> Phone: (814) 860-3194 or 888-75-BUDDY
>>
>>
>>
>> On Jun 23, 2011, at 4:38 PM, Tami Kinney wrote:
>>
>> > Hope and Buddy,
>> >
>> > I'm afraid we had to remove the PayPal button from the site... Turns
out
>> > they don't allow using their service for raffles, so now we know.  But
>> > for this year, we've had to make adjustments.  Those who paid through
>> > PayPal before they informed us how very displeased they are do have the
>> > tickets they bought and paid for. We're planning and researching how to
>> > deal with some of those fundraising activities through the website for
>> > everyone's convenience.
>> >
>> > Hope, if you want to know more, you can contact Marion at
>> > president at nagdu.org or Toni Whaley at treasurer at nagdu.org to see if you
>> > can still get tickets.  Come to think of it, it passed off my radar
when
>> > we decided to not use the website until we had a solution next year.
>> > But I still want that Breeze! /smile/
>> >
>> > On Thu, 2011-06-23 at 14:52 -0400, Buddy Brannan wrote:
>> >> Hi,
>> >>
>> >> Go to the NAGDU site. You can buy tickets there, and there's even a
> handy Paypal link.
>> >> --
>> >> Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
>> >> Phone: (814) 860-3194 or 888-75-BUDDY
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Jun 23, 2011, at 2:37 PM, Hope Paulos wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> Hi all. I don't know who sent the information for winning the Trekker
> Breeze from Nagdu, but I have a question. Are those of us who are not
> attending convention eligible to win? If so, how can we submit payment and
> have tickets filled out?
>> >>> Thanks.
>> >>> Hope and Beignet
>> >>> _______________________________________________
>> >>> nagdu mailing list
>> >>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nagdu:
>> >>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/buddy%40brannan.name
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> nagdu mailing list
>> >> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nagdu:
>> >>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/tamara.8024%40comcast
> .net
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > nagdu mailing list
>> > nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nagdu:
>> >
>
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>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nagdu:
>>
>
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> .net
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 14
> Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2011 18:22:23 -0400
> From: "Arthur Nolden" <anolden at tampabay.rr.com>
> To: <Undisclosed-Recipient:;>
> Subject: [nagdu] . O-T: Blind People are Faking it.
> Message-ID: <31BE0B810A9449B28F6C885AD16CD11C at yourc6417768d6>
> Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="iso-8859-1"
>
>
>
>
> Blind People Are Faking It!
>
> Citizens, hear us well. Our great nation is being undermined by a secret
> society of individuals who carry deadly white truncheons and lead vicious
> attack animals in public on a daily basis. These mysterious folk also have
a
> secret means of communication, while shocking new evidence seems to
indicate
> that they may even possess senses superior to those of other humans. We're
> speaking, of course, of the legions of the so-called blind.
>
> Let's assume for a minute that we swallow this "blindness" hoax in the
first
> place.  If these people are somehow bereft of the gift of sight, how does
> that explain the works of Stevie Wonder, Ray Charles and Ronnie Milsap?
How
> could such men possibly play music if they were blind? What do they take
us
> for-ignorant
> saps?
> The first issue I must point out is their very public display of armed
> might. Every individual laying claim to sightlessness carries a cudgel on
> their person at all times. These "canes," as they call them, are supposed
to
> help them feel their way along. They are painted white, almost as if the
> bearer wished to remind passersby of its presence, and the weapon's tip is
> painted a chillingly suggestive red. Those who have studied the mysterious
> fighting arts of the Orient know that such sticks may be wielded with
deadly
> force by those with skill.
>
> In a surprise attack, strategically placed squads of the "blind"
> could quickly overwhelm our police forces.  Their fearsome nature
> encompasses more than just personal weaponry. Many of the alleged blind
also
> own large, vicious attack dogs for the supposed purpose of guidance along
> city streets. With one word from their scheming masters, these slavering
> "guide" dogs could become guided missiles!
>
> Indeed, most of these fearsome beasts are German shepherds, a species of
> killer wolf invented by twisted, Fascist dog breeders, which has somehow
> fallen into this most suspect faction of the disabled.  The most
frightening
> aspect of this diabolical conspiracy by far is their ability to
communicate
> with one another unbeknownst to upstanding citizens. Their secret code
> consists of a series of raised dots cunningly arranged into arcane shapes.
> Known as "Braille," this demonic alphabet has begun popping up in places
> that were doubtlessly chosen for their mundane, everyday outward
appearance:
> elevators, building directories, automated teller machines and the like.
>
> This system seems rational enough, and does not attract undue attention.
But
> think! If the messages on the signs changed suddenly, how would we know?
> Next year, next month, next week, maybe even tomorrow, the signs will
change
> from "second
> floor" to "STRIKE NOW! STRIKE HARD!" and our nation will be thrown into
the
> chaos of revolution.
>
> At this juncture, there is no hard evidence that the blind are planning
such
> a revolution.  We hope to have such evidence very soon. But can one group
> possess such an overwhelming element of surprise and fail to use it to
seize
> power? And can their goals be anything but evil?
>
> No, I say! I maintain that true blindness lies in failing to see the
threat
> where it must obviously lie, and we must be vigilantly wary of the blind
> menace.
>
> Alan P., Nevada.
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 15
> Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2011 18:38:06 -0400
> From: "Sean Moore" <sean.moore at mediacombb.net>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,	the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> 	<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] . O-T: Blind People are Faking it.
> Message-ID: <C5461A4DD88D4166ACE61067E467507E at aspireone>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> 	reply-type=original
>
> What the ...?
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Arthur Nolden" <anolden at tampabay.rr.com>
> To: <Undisclosed-Recipient:;>
> Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2011 6:22 PM
> Subject: [nagdu] . O-T: Blind People are Faking it.
>
>
>>
>>
>>
>> Blind People Are Faking It!
>>
>> Citizens, hear us well. Our great nation is being undermined by a secret
>> society of individuals who carry deadly white truncheons and lead vicious
>> attack animals in public on a daily basis. These mysterious folk also
have
>
>> a secret means of communication, while shocking new evidence seems to
>> indicate that they may even possess senses superior to those of other
>> humans. We're speaking, of course, of the legions of the so-called blind.
>>
>> Let's assume for a minute that we swallow this "blindness" hoax in the
>> first place.  If these people are somehow bereft of the gift of sight,
how
>
>> does that explain the works of Stevie Wonder, Ray Charles and Ronnie
>> Milsap? How could such men possibly play music if they were blind? What
do
>
>> they take us for-ignorant
>> saps?
>> The first issue I must point out is their very public display of armed
>> might. Every individual laying claim to sightlessness carries a cudgel on
>> their person at all times. These "canes," as they call them, are supposed
>> to help them feel their way along. They are painted white, almost as if
>> the bearer wished to remind passersby of its presence, and the weapon's
>> tip is painted a chillingly suggestive red. Those who have studied the
>> mysterious fighting arts of the Orient know that such sticks may be
>> wielded with deadly force by those with skill.
>>
>> In a surprise attack, strategically placed squads of the "blind"
>> could quickly overwhelm our police forces.  Their fearsome nature
>> encompasses more than just personal weaponry. Many of the alleged blind
>> also own large, vicious attack dogs for the supposed purpose of guidance
>> along city streets. With one word from their scheming masters, these
>> slavering "guide" dogs could become guided missiles!
>>
>> Indeed, most of these fearsome beasts are German shepherds, a species of
>> killer wolf invented by twisted, Fascist dog breeders, which has somehow
>> fallen into this most suspect faction of the disabled.  The most
>> frightening aspect of this diabolical conspiracy by far is their ability
>> to communicate with one another unbeknownst to upstanding citizens. Their
>> secret code consists of a series of raised dots cunningly arranged into
>> arcane shapes. Known as "Braille," this demonic alphabet has begun
popping
>
>> up in places that were doubtlessly chosen for their mundane, everyday
>> outward appearance:
>> elevators, building directories, automated teller machines and the like.
>>
>> This system seems rational enough, and does not attract undue attention.
>> But think! If the messages on the signs changed suddenly, how would we
>> know? Next year, next month, next week, maybe even tomorrow, the signs
>> will change from "second
>> floor" to "STRIKE NOW! STRIKE HARD!" and our nation will be thrown into
>> the chaos of revolution.
>>
>> At this juncture, there is no hard evidence that the blind are planning
>> such a revolution.  We hope to have such evidence very soon. But can one
>> group possess such an overwhelming element of surprise and fail to use it
>> to seize power? And can their goals be anything but evil?
>>
>> No, I say! I maintain that true blindness lies in failing to see the
>> threat where it must obviously lie, and we must be vigilantly wary of the
>> blind menace.
>>
>> Alan P., Nevada.
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nagdu:
>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/sean.moore%40mediacom
> bb.net
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 16
> Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2011 21:39:14 -0400
> From: "cheryl echevarria" <cherylandmaxx at hotmail.com>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,	the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> 	<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Question about raffle for Trekker Breeze
> Message-ID: <BLU162-ds8084A15951C07A96F9600A1520 at phx.gbl>
> Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> well you can do it this way, just have a paypal button, doesn't have to be
> for raffles. Just put in the information for payment of donation or
> whatever, doesn't have to say raffle.
>
> Then e-mail the contact person and let them know off list that it was for
> the Raffle.
>
> There are ways around it.
>
> Leading the Way in Independent Travel!
>
> Cheryl Echevarria
> http://www.echevarriatravel.com<http://www.echevarriatravel.com/>
> 631-456-5394
>
reservations at echevarriatravel.com<mailto:reservations at echevarriatravel.com>
>
> Affiliated as an Independent Contractor with Montrose Travel
CST-1018299-10
>
> Affiliated as an Independent Contractor with Absolute Cruise & Travel,
Inc.
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: Tami Kinney<mailto:tamara.8024 at comcast.net>
>   To: nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>   Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2011 4:38 PM
>   Subject: Re: [nagdu] Question about raffle for Trekker Breeze
>
>
>   Hope and Buddy,
>
>   I'm afraid we had to remove the PayPal button from the site... Turns out
>   they don't allow using their service for raffles, so now we know.  But
>   for this year, we've had to make adjustments.  Those who paid through
>   PayPal before they informed us how very displeased they are do have the
>   tickets they bought and paid for. We're planning and researching how to
>   deal with some of those fundraising activities through the website for
>   everyone's convenience.
>
>   Hope, if you want to know more, you can contact Marion at
>   president at nagdu.org<mailto:president at nagdu.org> or Toni Whaley at
> treasurer at nagdu.org<mailto:treasurer at nagdu.org> to see if you
>   can still get tickets.  Come to think of it, it passed off my radar when
>   we decided to not use the website until we had a solution next year.
>   But I still want that Breeze! /smile/
>
>   On Thu, 2011-06-23 at 14:52 -0400, Buddy Brannan wrote:
>   > Hi,
>   >
>   > Go to the NAGDU site. You can buy tickets there, and there's even a
> handy Paypal link.
>   > --
>   > Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
>   > Phone: (814) 860-3194 or 888-75-BUDDY
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   > On Jun 23, 2011, at 2:37 PM, Hope Paulos wrote:
>   >
>   > > Hi all. I don't know who sent the information for winning the
Trekker
> Breeze from Nagdu, but I have a question. Are those of us who are not
> attending convention eligible to win? If so, how can we submit payment and
> have tickets filled out?
>   > > Thanks.
>   > > Hope and Beignet
>   > > _______________________________________________
>   > > nagdu mailing list
>   > > nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>   > >
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org<http://www.nfbnet.or
> g/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org>
>   > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
for
> nagdu:
>   > >
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/buddy%40brannan.name<
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/buddy%40brannan.name>
>   >
>   >
>   > _______________________________________________
>   > nagdu mailing list
>   > nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>   >
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org<http://www.nfbnet.or
> g/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org>
>   > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nagdu:
>   >
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/tamara.8024%40comcast
>
.net<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/tamara.8024%40co
> mcast.net>
>
>
>   _______________________________________________
>   nagdu mailing list
>   nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org<http://www.nfbnet.or
> g/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org>
>   To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nagdu:
>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/cherylandmaxx%40hotma
>
il.com<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/cherylandmaxx%
> 40hotmail.com>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 17
> Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2011 23:19:46 -0400
> From: "Julie Phillipson" <jbrew48 at verizon.net>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,	the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> 	<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] . O-T: Blind People are Faking it.
> Message-ID: <4DAE90F955164F5AB7709851EC36B4D1 at acer4d025c48b8>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> 	reply-type=response
>
> WHAT WAS NOT SAID ON THIS IS BELOW.
> Hi everyone,
>
> Below is something that if you can't laugh at far out humer then I would
> suggest not reading it. The spoof came from a publication in Madison
> Wisconsin that does this kind of thing. Not sure how appropriate it is for
> the list, but sometimes one just needs to be a little crazy!!
>
>
>
> Julie Phillipson
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Sean Moore" <sean.moore at mediacombb.net>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2011 6:38 PM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] . O-T: Blind People are Faking it.
>
>
>> What the ...?
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Arthur Nolden" <anolden at tampabay.rr.com>
>> To: <Undisclosed-Recipient:;>
>> Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2011 6:22 PM
>> Subject: [nagdu] . O-T: Blind People are Faking it.
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Blind People Are Faking It!
>>>
>>> Citizens, hear us well. Our great nation is being undermined by a secret
>>> society of individuals who carry deadly white truncheons and lead
vicious
>
>>> attack animals in public on a daily basis. These mysterious folk also
>>> have a secret means of communication, while shocking new evidence seems
>>> to indicate that they may even possess senses superior to those of other
>>> humans. We're speaking, of course, of the legions of the so-called
blind.
>>>
>>> Let's assume for a minute that we swallow this "blindness" hoax in the
>>> first place.  If these people are somehow bereft of the gift of sight,
>>> how does that explain the works of Stevie Wonder, Ray Charles and Ronnie
>>> Milsap? How could such men possibly play music if they were blind? What
>>> do they take us for-ignorant
>>> saps?
>>> The first issue I must point out is their very public display of armed
>>> might. Every individual laying claim to sightlessness carries a cudgel
on
>
>>> their person at all times. These "canes," as they call them, are
supposed
>
>>> to help them feel their way along. They are painted white, almost as if
>>> the bearer wished to remind passersby of its presence, and the weapon's
>>> tip is painted a chillingly suggestive red. Those who have studied the
>>> mysterious fighting arts of the Orient know that such sticks may be
>>> wielded with deadly force by those with skill.
>>>
>>> In a surprise attack, strategically placed squads of the "blind"
>>> could quickly overwhelm our police forces.  Their fearsome nature
>>> encompasses more than just personal weaponry. Many of the alleged blind
>>> also own large, vicious attack dogs for the supposed purpose of guidance
>>> along city streets. With one word from their scheming masters, these
>>> slavering "guide" dogs could become guided missiles!
>>>
>>> Indeed, most of these fearsome beasts are German shepherds, a species of
>>> killer wolf invented by twisted, Fascist dog breeders, which has somehow
>>> fallen into this most suspect faction of the disabled.  The most
>>> frightening aspect of this diabolical conspiracy by far is their ability
>>> to communicate with one another unbeknownst to upstanding citizens.
Their
>
>>> secret code consists of a series of raised dots cunningly arranged into
>>> arcane shapes. Known as "Braille," this demonic alphabet has begun
>>> popping up in places that were doubtlessly chosen for their mundane,
>>> everyday outward appearance:
>>> elevators, building directories, automated teller machines and the like.
>>>
>>> This system seems rational enough, and does not attract undue attention.
>>> But think! If the messages on the signs changed suddenly, how would we
>>> know? Next year, next month, next week, maybe even tomorrow, the signs
>>> will change from "second
>>> floor" to "STRIKE NOW! STRIKE HARD!" and our nation will be thrown into
>>> the chaos of revolution.
>>>
>>> At this juncture, there is no hard evidence that the blind are planning
>>> such a revolution.  We hope to have such evidence very soon. But can one
>>> group possess such an overwhelming element of surprise and fail to use
it
>
>>> to seize power? And can their goals be anything but evil?
>>>
>>> No, I say! I maintain that true blindness lies in failing to see the
>>> threat where it must obviously lie, and we must be vigilantly wary of
the
>
>>> blind menace.
>>>
>>> Alan P., Nevada.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nagdu mailing list
>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nagdu:
>>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/sean.moore%40mediacom
> bb.net
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nagdu:
>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/jbrew48%40verizon.net
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 18
> Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2011 21:31:13 -0700
> From: Tami Kinney <tamara.8024 at comcast.net>
> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] . O-T: Blind People are Faking it.
> Message-ID: <1308889873.2959.55.camel at tamara-desktop>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> OMG! ROTFL! Heard the audio version a couple of days ago, but it just
> never stops being hysterical.  Especially the way my new screen reader
> does it.  I think I might have sprained something laughing!
>
> On Thu, 2011-06-23 at 18:22 -0400, Arthur Nolden wrote:
>>
>>
>> Blind People Are Faking It!
>>
>> Citizens, hear us well. Our great nation is being undermined by a secret
> society of individuals who carry deadly white truncheons and lead vicious
> attack animals in public on a daily basis. These mysterious folk also have
a
> secret means of communication, while shocking new evidence seems to
indicate
> that they may even possess senses superior to those of other humans. We're
> speaking, of course, of the legions of the so-called blind.
>>
>> Let's assume for a minute that we swallow this "blindness" hoax in the
> first place.  If these people are somehow bereft of the gift of sight, how
> does that explain the works of Stevie Wonder, Ray Charles and Ronnie
Milsap?
> How could such men possibly play music if they were blind? What do they
take
> us for-ignorant
>> saps?
>> The first issue I must point out is their very public display of armed
> might. Every individual laying claim to sightlessness carries a cudgel on
> their person at all times. These "canes," as they call them, are supposed
to
> help them feel their way along. They are painted white, almost as if the
> bearer wished to remind passersby of its presence, and the weapon's tip is
> painted a chillingly suggestive red. Those who have studied the mysterious
> fighting arts of the Orient know that such sticks may be wielded with
deadly
> force by those with skill.
>>
>> In a surprise attack, strategically placed squads of the "blind"
>> could quickly overwhelm our police forces.  Their fearsome nature
> encompasses more than just personal weaponry. Many of the alleged blind
also
> own large, vicious attack dogs for the supposed purpose of guidance along
> city streets. With one word from their scheming masters, these slavering
> "guide" dogs could become guided missiles!
>>
>> Indeed, most of these fearsome beasts are German shepherds, a species of
> killer wolf invented by twisted, Fascist dog breeders, which has somehow
> fallen into this most suspect faction of the disabled.  The most
frightening
> aspect of this diabolical conspiracy by far is their ability to
communicate
> with one another unbeknownst to upstanding citizens. Their secret code
> consists of a series of raised dots cunningly arranged into arcane shapes.
> Known as "Braille," this demonic alphabet has begun popping up in places
> that were doubtlessly chosen for their mundane, everyday outward
appearance:
>> elevators, building directories, automated teller machines and the like.
>>
>> This system seems rational enough, and does not attract undue attention.
> But think! If the messages on the signs changed suddenly, how would we
know?
> Next year, next month, next week, maybe even tomorrow, the signs will
change
> from "second
>> floor" to "STRIKE NOW! STRIKE HARD!" and our nation will be thrown into
> the chaos of revolution.
>>
>> At this juncture, there is no hard evidence that the blind are planning
> such a revolution.  We hope to have such evidence very soon. But can one
> group possess such an overwhelming element of surprise and fail to use it
to
> seize power? And can their goals be anything but evil?
>>
>> No, I say! I maintain that true blindness lies in failing to see the
> threat where it must obviously lie, and we must be vigilantly wary of the
> blind menace.
>>
>> Alan P., Nevada.
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nagdu:
>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/tamara.8024%40comcast
> .net
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 19
> Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 05:47:57 -0400
> From: "cheryl echevarria" <cherylandmaxx at hotmail.com>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,	the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> 	<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] . O-T: Blind People are Faking it.
> Message-ID: <BLU162-ds13BBC737B2BC34501713C2A1520 at phx.gbl>
> Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> it is funny ART, you are funny.
>
> Leading the Way in Independent Travel!
>
> Cheryl Echevarria
> http://www.echevarriatravel.com<http://www.echevarriatravel.com/>
> 631-456-5394
>
reservations at echevarriatravel.com<mailto:reservations at echevarriatravel.com>
>
> Affiliated as an Independent Contractor with Montrose Travel
CST-1018299-10
>
> Affiliated as an Independent Contractor with Absolute Cruise & Travel,
Inc.
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: Julie Phillipson<mailto:jbrew48 at verizon.net>
>   To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
> Users<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>   Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2011 11:19 PM
>   Subject: Re: [nagdu] . O-T: Blind People are Faking it.
>
>
>   WHAT WAS NOT SAID ON THIS IS BELOW.
>   Hi everyone,
>
>   Below is something that if you can't laugh at far out humer then I would
>   suggest not reading it. The spoof came from a publication in Madison
>   Wisconsin that does this kind of thing. Not sure how appropriate it is
for
>
>   the list, but sometimes one just needs to be a little crazy!!
>
>
>
>   Julie Phillipson
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: "Sean Moore"
> <sean.moore at mediacombb.net<mailto:sean.moore at mediacombb.net>>
>   To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>   <nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>>
>   Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2011 6:38 PM
>   Subject: Re: [nagdu] . O-T: Blind People are Faking it.
>
>
>   > What the ...?
>   > ----- Original Message -----
>   > From: "Arthur Nolden"
> <anolden at tampabay.rr.com<mailto:anolden at tampabay.rr.com>>
>   > To: <Undisclosed-Recipient:;>
>   > Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2011 6:22 PM
>   > Subject: [nagdu] . O-T: Blind People are Faking it.
>   >
>   >
>   >>
>   >>
>   >>
>   >> Blind People Are Faking It!
>   >>
>   >> Citizens, hear us well. Our great nation is being undermined by a
> secret
>   >> society of individuals who carry deadly white truncheons and lead
> vicious
>   >> attack animals in public on a daily basis. These mysterious folk also
>   >> have a secret means of communication, while shocking new evidence
seems
>
>   >> to indicate that they may even possess senses superior to those of
> other
>   >> humans. We're speaking, of course, of the legions of the so-called
> blind.
>   >>
>   >> Let's assume for a minute that we swallow this "blindness" hoax in
the
>   >> first place.  If these people are somehow bereft of the gift of
sight,
>   >> how does that explain the works of Stevie Wonder, Ray Charles and
> Ronnie
>   >> Milsap? How could such men possibly play music if they were blind?
What
>
>   >> do they take us for-ignorant
>   >> saps?
>   >> The first issue I must point out is their very public display of
armed
>   >> might. Every individual laying claim to sightlessness carries a
cudgel
> on
>   >> their person at all times. These "canes," as they call them, are
> supposed
>   >> to help them feel their way along. They are painted white, almost as
if
>
>   >> the bearer wished to remind passersby of its presence, and the
weapon's
>
>   >> tip is painted a chillingly suggestive red. Those who have studied
the
>   >> mysterious fighting arts of the Orient know that such sticks may be
>   >> wielded with deadly force by those with skill.
>   >>
>   >> In a surprise attack, strategically placed squads of the "blind"
>   >> could quickly overwhelm our police forces.  Their fearsome nature
>   >> encompasses more than just personal weaponry. Many of the alleged
blind
>
>   >> also own large, vicious attack dogs for the supposed purpose of
> guidance
>   >> along city streets. With one word from their scheming masters, these
>   >> slavering "guide" dogs could become guided missiles!
>   >>
>   >> Indeed, most of these fearsome beasts are German shepherds, a species
> of
>   >> killer wolf invented by twisted, Fascist dog breeders, which has
> somehow
>   >> fallen into this most suspect faction of the disabled.  The most
>   >> frightening aspect of this diabolical conspiracy by far is their
> ability
>   >> to communicate with one another unbeknownst to upstanding citizens.
> Their
>   >> secret code consists of a series of raised dots cunningly arranged
into
>
>   >> arcane shapes. Known as "Braille," this demonic alphabet has begun
>   >> popping up in places that were doubtlessly chosen for their mundane,
>   >> everyday outward appearance:
>   >> elevators, building directories, automated teller machines and the
> like.
>   >>
>   >> This system seems rational enough, and does not attract undue
> attention.
>   >> But think! If the messages on the signs changed suddenly, how would
we
>   >> know? Next year, next month, next week, maybe even tomorrow, the
signs
>   >> will change from "second
>   >> floor" to "STRIKE NOW! STRIKE HARD!" and our nation will be thrown
into
>
>   >> the chaos of revolution.
>   >>
>   >> At this juncture, there is no hard evidence that the blind are
planning
>
>   >> such a revolution.  We hope to have such evidence very soon. But can
> one
>   >> group possess such an overwhelming element of surprise and fail to
use
> it
>   >> to seize power? And can their goals be anything but evil?
>   >>
>   >> No, I say! I maintain that true blindness lies in failing to see the
>   >> threat where it must obviously lie, and we must be vigilantly wary of
> the
>   >> blind menace.
>   >>
>   >> Alan P., Nevada.
>   >>
>   >>
>   >>
>   >> _______________________________________________
>   >> nagdu mailing list
>   >> nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>   >>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org<http://www.nfbnet.or
> g/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org>
>   >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>   >> nagdu:
>   >>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/sean.moore%40mediacom
>
bb.net<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/sean.moore%40m
> ediacombb.net>
>   >
>   >
>   > _______________________________________________
>   > nagdu mailing list
>   > nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>   >
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org<http://www.nfbnet.or
> g/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org>
>   > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>   > nagdu:
>   >
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/jbrew48%40verizon.net
>
<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/jbrew48%40verizon.ne
> t>
>
>
>   _______________________________________________
>   nagdu mailing list
>   nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org<http://www.nfbnet.or
> g/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org>
>   To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nagdu:
>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/cherylandmaxx%40hotma
>
il.com<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/cherylandmaxx%
> 40hotmail.com>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 20
> Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 08:30:47 -0400
> From: "Marion Gwizdala" <blind411 at verizon.net>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,	the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> 	<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Question about raffle for Trekker Breeze
> Message-ID: <B560BFA05E674B108AC90002C499A6FB at marion27df4b2a>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1;
> 	reply-type=original
>
> Cheryl,
>     Thanks for the info. we are not going to pursue this for year, as I
> believe it would probably raise some red flags with Pay Pal. We will
> consider this option for next year's *drawing*!
>
> Marion
>
> this
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "cheryl echevarria" <cherylandmaxx at hotmail.com>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2011 9:39 PM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Question about raffle for Trekker Breeze
>
>
>> well you can do it this way, just have a paypal button, doesn't have to
be
>
>> for raffles. Just put in the information for payment of donation or
>> whatever, doesn't have to say raffle.
>>
>> Then e-mail the contact person and let them know off list that it was for
>> the Raffle.
>>
>> There are ways around it.
>>
>> Leading the Way in Independent Travel!
>>
>> Cheryl Echevarria
>> http://www.echevarriatravel.com<http://www.echevarriatravel.com/>
>> 631-456-5394
>>
>
reservations at echevarriatravel.com<mailto:reservations at echevarriatravel.com>
>>
>> Affiliated as an Independent Contractor with Montrose Travel
>> CST-1018299-10
>>
>> Affiliated as an Independent Contractor with Absolute Cruise & Travel,
>> Inc.
>>  ----- Original Message -----
>>  From: Tami Kinney<mailto:tamara.8024 at comcast.net>
>>  To: nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>  Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2011 4:38 PM
>>  Subject: Re: [nagdu] Question about raffle for Trekker Breeze
>>
>>
>>  Hope and Buddy,
>>
>>  I'm afraid we had to remove the PayPal button from the site... Turns out
>>  they don't allow using their service for raffles, so now we know.  But
>>  for this year, we've had to make adjustments.  Those who paid through
>>  PayPal before they informed us how very displeased they are do have the
>>  tickets they bought and paid for. We're planning and researching how to
>>  deal with some of those fundraising activities through the website for
>>  everyone's convenience.
>>
>>  Hope, if you want to know more, you can contact Marion at
>>  president at nagdu.org<mailto:president at nagdu.org> or Toni Whaley at
>> treasurer at nagdu.org<mailto:treasurer at nagdu.org> to see if you
>>  can still get tickets.  Come to think of it, it passed off my radar when
>>  we decided to not use the website until we had a solution next year.
>>  But I still want that Breeze! /smile/
>>
>>  On Thu, 2011-06-23 at 14:52 -0400, Buddy Brannan wrote:
>>  > Hi,
>>  >
>>  > Go to the NAGDU site. You can buy tickets there, and there's even a
>> handy Paypal link.
>>  > --
>>  > Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
>>  > Phone: (814) 860-3194 or 888-75-BUDDY
>>  >
>>  >
>>  >
>>  > On Jun 23, 2011, at 2:37 PM, Hope Paulos wrote:
>>  >
>>  > > Hi all. I don't know who sent the information for winning the
Trekker
>
>> Breeze from Nagdu, but I have a question. Are those of us who are not
>> attending convention eligible to win? If so, how can we submit payment
and
>
>> have tickets filled out?
>>  > > Thanks.
>>  > > Hope and Beignet
>>  > > _______________________________________________
>>  > > nagdu mailing list
>>  > > nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>  > >
>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org<http://www.nfbnet.or
> g/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org>
>>  > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
for
>
>> nagdu:
>>  > >
>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/buddy%40brannan.name<
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/buddy%40brannan.name>
>>  >
>>  >
>>  > _______________________________________________
>>  > nagdu mailing list
>>  > nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>  >
>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org<http://www.nfbnet.or
> g/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org>
>>  > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nagdu:
>>  >
>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/tamara.8024%40comcast
>
.net<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/tamara.8024%40co
> mcast.net>
>>
>>
>>  _______________________________________________
>>  nagdu mailing list
>>  nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>
>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org<http://www.nfbnet.or
> g/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org>
>>  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nagdu:
>>
>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/cherylandmaxx%40hotma
>
il.com<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/cherylandmaxx%
> 40hotmail.com>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nagdu:
>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/blind411%40verizon.ne
> t
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 21
> Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 10:18:15 -0400
> From: "Tracy Carcione" <carcione at access.net>
> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
> Subject: [nagdu] Cloning
> Message-ID: <9b4cadb7cfeb707c2f4ff952f8abca3c.squirrel at mail.panix.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1
>
> I heard a story about cloning on NPR a few weeks ago.  A police department
> tried cloning a police dog with a really super nose and other great
> characteristics.  The clones noses were just so-so, not the same as the
> original.  I thought that was interesting.
> I've sometimes wished I could clone one of my dogs.  But it might still
> not be the same.  And I'd miss getting to know the wonderful uniqueness of
> the next dog.  Vive la difference! It is in the natural order of things to
> have to let go of the old and embrace the new.
> Tracy
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 22
> Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 14:20:47 +0000
> From: "PICKRELL, REBECCA M (TASC)" <REBECCA.PICKRELL at tasc.com>
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,	the National Association of Guide Dog
> 	Users'"	<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Cloning
> Message-ID: <AAE38548E198F64B8E345439B68CCC781260AE37 at TSEAMB02>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Keep in mind with cloning, you are not cloning souls. We all have them We
> also are not cloning experiences and interpertations on experiences. We
all
> have those too.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Tracy Carcione
> Sent: Friday, June 24, 2011 10:18 AM
> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
> Subject: [nagdu] Cloning
>
> I heard a story about cloning on NPR a few weeks ago.  A police department
> tried cloning a police dog with a really super nose and other great
> characteristics.  The clones noses were just so-so, not the same as the
> original.  I thought that was interesting.
> I've sometimes wished I could clone one of my dogs.  But it might still
> not be the same.  And I'd miss getting to know the wonderful uniqueness of
> the next dog.  Vive la difference! It is in the natural order of things to
> have to let go of the old and embrace the new.
> Tracy
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nagdu mailing list
> nagdu at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nagdu:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/rebecca.pickrell%40ta
> sc.com
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 23
> Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 11:44:15 -0400
> From: "Tracy Carcione" <carcione at access.net>
> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
> Subject: [nagdu] Success stats
> Message-ID: <e41fac95e159265db497442342f4b9d2.squirrel at mail.panix.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1
>
> In the latest Seeing Eye annual report, they talk about working to improve
> their success rate from birth to a successful match.  The report said that
> 80% of the dogs that enter training make it through.  It also said that
> they have lowered the number of puppies they need to breed in order to
> have enough for training, but, looking at the numbers, it looks like
> roughly 2 to 1--509 pups born, 254 partnered with students.
> I remember reading, ages ago, that only 50% of guide dog puppies make it
> through, and these stats look about the same, to me.
> I would really like to know if GDB's new methods have changed that ratio
> significantly.  I'm also curious if it's about the same at other schools.
> 50% seems pretty poor to me, but maybe that's just how it is.  Anyway,
> these sorts of stats interest me, and I thought they might interest
> others, too.  If anyone else has different stats, I'd love to find out
> more.
> Tracy
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 24
> Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 09:24:44 -0700
> From: Tami Kinney <tamara.8024 at comcast.net>
> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Cloning
> Message-ID: <1308932684.2091.34.camel at tamara-desktop>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> True! Since I plan to have several years before I have to make a
> decision, I can have fun with idea of doing it because I really do adore
> my poodle girl and want to hang on to her forever... When the time
> comes, and it's a *real* decision, who knows? As a lifelong sci-fi nut,
> it's just really exciting that we can now discuss the pros and cons
> seriuosly because we're not just making things up that will never be
> possible.  /smile/
>
> On Fri, 2011-06-24 at 10:18 -0400, Tracy Carcione wrote:
>> I heard a story about cloning on NPR a few weeks ago.  A police
department
>> tried cloning a police dog with a really super nose and other great
>> characteristics.  The clones noses were just so-so, not the same as the
>> original.  I thought that was interesting.
>> I've sometimes wished I could clone one of my dogs.  But it might still
>> not be the same.  And I'd miss getting to know the wonderful uniqueness
of
>> the next dog.  Vive la difference! It is in the natural order of things
to
>> have to let go of the old and embrace the new.
>> Tracy
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nagdu:
>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/tamara.8024%40comcast
> .net
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 25
> Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 09:30:36 -0700
> From: Tami Kinney <tamara.8024 at comcast.net>
> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Success stats
> Message-ID: <1308933036.2091.39.camel at tamara-desktop>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> Tracy, I read the older stats you mentioned when I was researching the
> notion of owner-training, and they were awfully daunting since I was
> looking for one dog which meant I needed a 100 percent success rate to
> have a guide dog.  And this was how it was working out for people who
> actually knew what they were doing?  /lol/ There was also an equally
> daunting ratio of returns after the match or early retirements...  I got
> the dog I found anyway and figured that I'd just start training her and
> see what happened.
>
> Anyway, thanks for sharing the updated info.  I do have a vague item
> penciled in way down on my to do list to look into what changes there
> have been over time at various programs, so I'm glad someone else does
> that, too, and lets others know.  Cool!
>
> On Fri, 2011-06-24 at 11:44 -0400, Tracy Carcione wrote:
>> In the latest Seeing Eye annual report, they talk about working to
improve
>> their success rate from birth to a successful match.  The report said
that
>> 80% of the dogs that enter training make it through.  It also said that
>> they have lowered the number of puppies they need to breed in order to
>> have enough for training, but, looking at the numbers, it looks like
>> roughly 2 to 1--509 pups born, 254 partnered with students.
>> I remember reading, ages ago, that only 50% of guide dog puppies make it
>> through, and these stats look about the same, to me.
>> I would really like to know if GDB's new methods have changed that ratio
>> significantly.  I'm also curious if it's about the same at other schools.
>> 50% seems pretty poor to me, but maybe that's just how it is.  Anyway,
>> these sorts of stats interest me, and I thought they might interest
>> others, too.  If anyone else has different stats, I'd love to find out
>> more.
>> Tracy
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nagdu:
>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/tamara.8024%40comcast
> .net
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 26
> Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 10:58:23 -0600
> From: Sheila Leigland <sleigland at bresnan.net>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,	the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> 	<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Success stats
> Message-ID: <auto-000290016377 at fe-2.cluster1.bresnan.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> The fifty percent is what I've heard and it seems low to me also. I hope
it
> changes or has changed.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 27
> Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 12:56:17 -0400
> From: "Margo and Arrow" <margo.downey at verizon.net>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,	the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> 	<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] . O-T: Blind People are Faking it.
> Message-ID: <00EEE5F0BE5247D9BA2FCD3E80653E45 at meandmyarrow>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1;
> 	reply-type=response
>
> It's from the Onion and the Onion spoofs everyone and everything.
>
> Margo and Arrow
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Julie Phillipson" <jbrew48 at verizon.net>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2011 11:19 PM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] . O-T: Blind People are Faking it.
>
>
>> WHAT WAS NOT SAID ON THIS IS BELOW.
>> Hi everyone,
>>
>> Below is something that if you can't laugh at far out humer then I would
>> suggest not reading it. The spoof came from a publication in Madison
>> Wisconsin that does this kind of thing. Not sure how appropriate it is
for
>
>> the list, but sometimes one just needs to be a little crazy!!
>>
>>
>>
>> Julie Phillipson
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Sean Moore" <sean.moore at mediacombb.net>
>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2011 6:38 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] . O-T: Blind People are Faking it.
>>
>>
>>> What the ...?
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Arthur Nolden" <anolden at tampabay.rr.com>
>>> To: <Undisclosed-Recipient:;>
>>> Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2011 6:22 PM
>>> Subject: [nagdu] . O-T: Blind People are Faking it.
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Blind People Are Faking It!
>>>>
>>>> Citizens, hear us well. Our great nation is being undermined by a
secret
>
>>>> society of individuals who carry deadly white truncheons and lead
>>>> vicious attack animals in public on a daily basis. These mysterious
folk
>
>>>> also have a secret means of communication, while shocking new evidence
>>>> seems to indicate that they may even possess senses superior to those
of
>
>>>> other humans. We're speaking, of course, of the legions of the
so-called
>
>>>> blind.
>>>>
>>>> Let's assume for a minute that we swallow this "blindness" hoax in the
>>>> first place.  If these people are somehow bereft of the gift of sight,
>>>> how does that explain the works of Stevie Wonder, Ray Charles and
Ronnie
>
>>>> Milsap? How could such men possibly play music if they were blind? What
>>>> do they take us for-ignorant
>>>> saps?
>>>> The first issue I must point out is their very public display of armed
>>>> might. Every individual laying claim to sightlessness carries a cudgel
>>>> on their person at all times. These "canes," as they call them, are
>>>> supposed to help them feel their way along. They are painted white,
>>>> almost as if the bearer wished to remind passersby of its presence, and
>>>> the weapon's tip is painted a chillingly suggestive red. Those who have
>>>> studied the mysterious fighting arts of the Orient know that such
sticks
>
>>>> may be wielded with deadly force by those with skill.
>>>>
>>>> In a surprise attack, strategically placed squads of the "blind"
>>>> could quickly overwhelm our police forces.  Their fearsome nature
>>>> encompasses more than just personal weaponry. Many of the alleged blind
>>>> also own large, vicious attack dogs for the supposed purpose of
guidance
>
>>>> along city streets. With one word from their scheming masters, these
>>>> slavering "guide" dogs could become guided missiles!
>>>>
>>>> Indeed, most of these fearsome beasts are German shepherds, a species
of
>
>>>> killer wolf invented by twisted, Fascist dog breeders, which has
somehow
>
>>>> fallen into this most suspect faction of the disabled.  The most
>>>> frightening aspect of this diabolical conspiracy by far is their
ability
>
>>>> to communicate with one another unbeknownst to upstanding citizens.
>>>> Their secret code consists of a series of raised dots cunningly
arranged
>
>>>> into arcane shapes. Known as "Braille," this demonic alphabet has begun
>>>> popping up in places that were doubtlessly chosen for their mundane,
>>>> everyday outward appearance:
>>>> elevators, building directories, automated teller machines and the
like.
>>>>
>>>> This system seems rational enough, and does not attract undue
attention.
>
>>>> But think! If the messages on the signs changed suddenly, how would we
>>>> know? Next year, next month, next week, maybe even tomorrow, the signs
>>>> will change from "second
>>>> floor" to "STRIKE NOW! STRIKE HARD!" and our nation will be thrown into
>>>> the chaos of revolution.
>>>>
>>>> At this juncture, there is no hard evidence that the blind are planning
>>>> such a revolution.  We hope to have such evidence very soon. But can
one
>
>>>> group possess such an overwhelming element of surprise and fail to use
>>>> it to seize power? And can their goals be anything but evil?
>>>>
>>>> No, I say! I maintain that true blindness lies in failing to see the
>>>> threat where it must obviously lie, and we must be vigilantly wary of
>>>> the blind menace.
>>>>
>>>> Alan P., Nevada.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nagdu:
>>>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/sean.moore%40mediacom
> bb.net
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nagdu mailing list
>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nagdu:
>>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/jbrew48%40verizon.net
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nagdu:
>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/margo.downey%40verizo
> n.net
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
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