[nagdu] Local business asks service dog to leave

Thu Mar 3 21:29:12 UTC 2011

Spelling errors in an article is remarkable isn't it? so many grey areas and
not enough case law. still all in all the dog does provide a service, either
innately or thru training, the distinction here would be the diagnosis of a
disability then in your opinion? The disability diagnosis coupled with a
trained services an animal provides should afford protections in that
instance then? obviously, given your experience as an owner trainer not
having a school train your dogs does not preclude them from protections. So,
am I correct in believing that the handler must have a diagnosed and
acceptable disability to make the issue in the article a moot point?

Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
Founder
My Blind Spot, Inc.
90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
New York, New York  10004
www.myblindspot.org
PH: 917-553-0347
Fax: 212-858-5759
"The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who is
doing it."

Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Julie J
Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 1:54 PM
To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Local business asks service dog to leave

Albert,

An owner trained alert dog and an owner trained guide dog are 
interchangeable under the ADA.  The specific tasks that a dog does or the 
disability the handler has are not really important outside of the fact that

the dog is individually trained to perform tasks that mitigate the handler's

disability. What specific disability the handler has makes no difference 
under federal law.  Some state laws do get more specific about types of 
disability, types of service dog and specific protections afforded.

>From the article:
*>> Because of her abilties to detect certain health problems and
>> alert others when Tabor is in danger, she is now considered a
>> service dog.*
Love the spelling!  Anyway this statement would lead me to believe that the 
dog has been individually trained.  In my mind, it is unlikely that a dog 
would seek out help for his human partner reliably or consistently without 
being trained to do so.

I think if this case would ever go to court the gentleman would lose the 
case.  Not on the basis of the dog, but based on showing that his health 
issue rises to the level of a disability.  There is quite a lot of case law 
demonstrating a pretty narrow interpretation of disability.  Toyota vs. 
Williams comes to mind.

Anyway interesting stuff.  I'm still eagerly awaiting the day when I read a 
news story with no spelling errors, all the relevant facts and correct legal

info.  I wonder if that's even possible?

Julie

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Albert J Rizzi" <albert at myblindspot.org>
To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 9:37 AM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Local business asks service dog to leave

> Dear all,
> In this instance it does not appear as though the dog had any formal
> training, however, do not negate the truth that many dogs are in fact 
> being
> trained and used for alerting individuals to such things as seizure
> disorders, diabetic issues, so it is not out of the realm of possibility
> that dogs could in fact be trained to detect issues such as the one
> presented in this article. However, training would distinguish  pets who 
> are
> acting innately  versus some sort of formal training. I wonder. When
> compared with the owner trainers on this list how an owner trained alert 
> dog
> would fair under the laws?
>
> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
> Founder
> My Blind Spot, Inc.
> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
> New York, New York  10004
> www.myblindspot.org
> PH: 917-553-0347
> Fax: 212-858-5759
> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who is
> doing it."
>
>
> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Marion Gwizdala
> Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 10:26 AM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Local business asks service dog to leave
>
> Dear All,
>    Another interesting aspect of this article is at the end. The clinic
> director asserts "in a setting surrounded
> by doctors, they are simply not needed." Guidance from the CDC 
> specifically
> states, "
>
>
>
>
> Health-care personnel may not exclude a service animal because health-care
> staff may be able to perform the same services that the service animal 
> does
> (e.g., retrieving dropped items and guiding an otherwise ambulatory person
> to the restroom). Similarly, health-care personnel can not exclude service
>
> animals because the health-care staff perceive a lack of need for the
> service animal during the person's stay in the health-care facility. A
> person with a disability is entitled to independent access (i.e., to be
> accompanied by a service animal unless the animal poses a direct threat or

> a
>
> fundamental alteration in the nature of services); "need" for the animal 
> is
> not a valid factor in either analysis.
>
> If what this article reports, the clinic violated this person's civil 
> rights
>
> under the ADA. Now, if the person chooses to file a complaint against the
> doctor, the person must demonstrate that they are a lperson with a
> disability and then must demonstrate that the dog meets the definition of 
> a
> service animal.
>
> Fraternally yours,
> Marion Gwizdala
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Ginger Kutsch" <gingerKutsch at yahoo.com>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 8:55 AM
> Subject: [nagdu] Local business asks service dog to leave
>
>
>> Local business asks service dog to leave
>> Reporter - Lauren Adams
>> Story Created: Mar 2, 2011 at 4:54 PM CST
>>
>> PADUCAH - Eric Tabor's small black and tan daschund can fetch and
>> even give a high-five.   And there's one other thing that might
>> impress you: Georiga even knows how to save her owner's life.
>>
>>
>> Eric Tabor said it all started last year. "She laid her head on
>> my shoulder, directly over my heart."
>>
>> Tabor ignored it but Georgia kept at it.
>>
>> Eventually, he caved and went to his doctor.  Turns out Tabor had
>> an irregular heartbeat and needed a pacemaker.
>>
>> "She's an amazing little dog," Tabor said.
>>
>> In the year since, Georgia has not left his side. Tabor also
>> suffers from seizures and sleep apnea, which means he can stop
>> breathing during his sleep.
>>
>> Because of her abilties to detect certain health problems and
>> alert others when Tabor is in danger, she is now considered a
>> service dog.
>>
>> "They're actually put out by the Department of Justice," Tabor
>> said of the tags she wears on a bright pink harness.
>>
>> He said that tag was all but ignored Tuesday.
>>
>> "I just know its not right."
>>
>> He had come to Comprehensive Premier Medicine for a checkup with
>> Georgia by his side.
>>
>> "They told me I could not have her. That it was against their
>> health regulations, their laws for the clinic."
>>
>> But Georgia is covered under Federal Law.  Under the Americans
>> With Disabilites Act, "service dogs must be allowed to go
>> anywhere their handler goes."
>>
>> Also under the law, "It is illegal to ask for any special
>> identification from Service Dog partners.  Some carry ID cards
>> and may present them voluntarily."
>>
>> Tabor said he tried to present the tag. Even still, he was asked
>> to take Georgia elsewhere.
>>
>> On Wednesday, the clinic defended their decision, saying the dog
>> posed a health risk to other patients.
>>
>> Tabor said the biggest risk is not having Georgia.
>>
>> "It's a security thing. I need her."
>>
>> Tabor, as it turns out, is moving to South Carolina next week and
>> it is likely he will not even be back to the clinic in question.
>> But he wanted to change things for other people with service
>> animals.
>>
>> Clinic owner Dr. Robert Meriwether said he regrets upsetting
>> Tabor but stands by his decision.  He said he understands the
>> importance of service animals but added in a setting surrounded
>> by doctors, they are simply not needed.
>>
>> So, what do you think? Should Tabor get to keep Georgia with him,
>> even at the clinic? Or was the clinic right to refuse? Join the
>> conversation below.
>>
>> Kelley Wiseman7:17 am
>> Absolutley Yes!!!! They cannot legally be refused. Can you say
>> big time lawsuit that a dead ringer win....or at least I would if
>> I was him
>> Message
>> Martha Stamper5:58 am
>> Yes Tabor should have been allowed to have the dog with him at
>> anytime and anywhere. The Clinic was wrong and should be taken to
>> court over the matter since the dog was legal to have with the
>> man under Federal Law.Dr. Meriwether should be brought up for
>> violation of the mans rights under Federal law. This dog did not
>> cause any health risk to other patients, just the opposite would
>> have been experienced since patient jitters before seeing the
>> doctor may have been reduced by the presents of the dog. How mean
>> of this so-called doctor! The clinic should be shut down if no
>> more care about patients is shown than this!
>> Message
>> Elaine Lake1:20 am
>> As others have said, the DOJ does not put out any type of service
>> animal tags PERIOD!
>> The doctor cannot make up his own rules for his clinic. I do not
>> think that Dr. Merriweather is going to help with my wheelchair
>> movement, pick up items that I drop, help with my transfer from
>> my wheelchair to the toilet or any of the other tasks that my
>> service dog does. Also service animals can be medical alert dogs
>> and alerting to a medical condition is not normally a trained
>> task. As Mr. Tabor stated, Georgia does alert and respond to his
>> sleep apnea and his seizures. That makes her a service dog under
>> the law provided Mr. Tabor is considered disabled by the ADA
>> definition.
>> Message
>> Steffeny Muller12:42 am
>> Service Dogs have to be specifically task trained to mitigate a
>> disability. Alerting to a problem is not considered a task. High
>> fives are not condiered a task to mitigate a disability. It seems
>> that she may be a good dog to have around, but there is nothing
>> she is trained to do to help Mr. Tabor. Therefore she is not a
>> Service Dog and not covered by he ADA. By the Way, the DOJ does
>> not put out any sort of tag, patch or other certifications for
>> Service dogs. Please people do the research!
>> Message
>> Erica RodmanMar 2
>> "They're actually put out by the Department of Justice," Tabor
>> said of the tags she wears on a bright pink harness.
>>
>> I really wish people would fact-check. The DOJ does not issue any
>> sort of "tag" for service dogs.
>> Message
>> Bethany McCartyMar 2
>> That's crazy - the dog should have been allowed regardless!
>> Message
>> Francine JohnsonMar 2
>> The Justice Department most certainly DOES NOT put out tags for
>> service dogs, and to report as such is irresponsible journalism.
>> Message
>> Mandy BrianMar 2
>> Service animals are those for a reason and yes they should
>> definitely be allowed anywhere and everywhere. If the owner's
>> didn't have to have them then they wouldn't be considered service
>> animals.
>> Message
>> Mike SpencerMar 2
>> "Their Health Regulations"? Their Laws"? Sorry Dr. Meriweather.
>> You can't make laws concerning service animals. The dog was
>> probably cleaner than half of your patients. Maybe you could
>> avoided all this and rushed Mr. Tabor's appointment and got him
>> out of there and everybody would be happy.
>> Message
>> Dwain H KochMar 2
>> As a disabled person, I find the clinics actions highly
>> offensive. Someone coming to the clinic with a cold has a greater
>> chance of causing an infection than this service dog.
>> Message
>> Pj Horst McconougheyMar 2
>> I can't choose sides as once again there are two views, neither
>> one of them totally right or wrong. If she is indeed a service
>> dog and indeed goes with Mr Tabor everywhere then the doctor
>> appears to have made a wrong choice. One does have to wonder what
>> would he have done with a seeing eye dog or a dog for the deaf.
>> Bud do I think he did it to hurt anyone? No I don't. The doctor
>> made a decision to protect all of his patients including Mr
>> Tabor. A question also must be asked is this the first time this
>> has happened. Has it happened in other clinics? How does a clinic
>> handle the service dog and their other patients? How can this
>> problem be remedied? What can the doctor/clinic and the service
>> dog owner do to alleviate this problem for I really doubt this is
>> the first time for this and if it is it probably won't be the
>> last unless something is done.
>> Message
>> Vickie BryanMar 2
>> I think that it was wrong. If Mr Tabor had been blind and Georgia
>> had been a seeing eye dog, would the clinic have asked him to
>> leave?
>> Message
>> Wanda Donson HallMar 2
>> I think Mr. Tabor should file a complaint with the ACLU. The
>> doctor's opinion about whether the service dog was needed or not
>> does not matter. The law is very clear & the doctor clearly broke
>> the law - he should be held accountable. What if Mr. Tabor had
>> been blind & his dog was a seeing-eye dog - would Dr. Meriwether
>> have refused to allow the dog in his clinic? The only difference
>> between a service dog & a seeing-eye dog is the services they
>> perform. SHAME ON DR. MERIWETHER!!!
>> Message
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nagdu:
>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/blind411%40verizon.ne
> t
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nagdu mailing list
> nagdu at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nagdu:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/albert%40myblindspot.
> org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nagdu mailing list
> nagdu at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nagdu:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/julielj%40neb.rr.com
> 

_______________________________________________
nagdu mailing list
nagdu at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nagdu:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/albert%40myblindspot.
org