[nagdu] Question for those with poodles was Re: Quick Question

Sarah Clark goldflash9 at sbcglobal.net
Fri May 6 19:33:02 UTC 2011 

Holy crap Tami. That is amazing.  And to think, I would've been trying to 
teach my poodle to find say, The Cheesecake Factory, by telling them to 
"find the cheesecake Factory." Who knew that doing all of that would be a 
waste of time and training on my part.

Sarah & Miguel

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Tamara Smith-Kinney" <tamara.8024 at comcast.net>
To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, May 06, 2011 11:27 AM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Question for those with poodles was Re: Quick Question


> Gary,
>
> Yup.  Same with Mitzi poodle.  All those crazy claims poodle nuts make 
> about
> the verbal intelligent of their silly looking fou-fou dogs turn out to be
> more amazing in real life with a poodle.  There are some cool scientific
> studies going these days about verbal understanding in dogs and cats in
> general that blow the socks off of the traditional understanding of how 
> and
> whether they understand the words we use.  Turns out they actually do.
>
> So, based on my observations of observing Mitzi enough to overcome my
> disbelief in what she was showing me is that it is entirely possible 
> Bogart
> knows what the words "wine shop" mean from hearing you and your girlfriend
> talk about going there.  Mitzi used to drive me nutty with her attitude 
> when
> I was diligently labeling things for her so she would understand what this
> was that I wanted her to find or what that was...  Many poodle sighs 
> there.
> Once I figured out that I didn't need to do all that but could just say to
> myself and half to her something like, "Oh, I wonder how I can find the
> button here," at an intersection, she would point it out to me like she 
> was
> just doing it in passing and I could punch the button and it was much too
> easy.  Strange, strange dogs, our poodles.
>
> Since I was new enough to zipping around town being all blind and stuff, I
> talked my way through routes in advance to teach myself to orient and
> navigate without getting myself lost the minute I stepped through the 
> door.
> As Mitzi and I became better at going around our neighborhood by various
> routes depending on errands and visits and just everyday life with a GDIT,
> then with an apprentice guide learning to work in those environments, I
> discovered and could not deny that my poodle prefers an itinerary from me 
> so
> that she can plan the trip herself.  Also, that she does not like 
> surprises
> because I forgot to include a stop until we got going and I remembered I
> needed to turn off to get to it...  More poodle sighs.  Minor arguments on
> street corners.
>
> Scary smart, really, that one.  Sounds like your Bogart has some of that
> same unbelievable, wacky poodle brain stuff happening.  /grin/  To this 
> day,
> Mitzi is much happier and more efficient if she knows where we're going 
> and
> can just get us there than if I fall back on using the four guide dog
> commands.  Sheesh!  Why would I do that when I just let the guide dog do 
> her
> thing to get me there, since she knows where we're going and what we plan 
> to
> do from listening to us talk about it while we were all getting ready to 
> go,
> then in the truck, then getting out to the truck.  It's just an insult to
> her intelligence acting like she needs someone to tell her what to do like
> that.  Sigh.  SIGH!  /lol/
>
> Tami Smith-Kinney
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of GARY STEEVES
> Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2011 3:03 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Question for those with poodles was Re: Quick 
> Question
>
> Hi Sara:
>
> Hmm, I'm not sure about this. Basically when I got Bogart home I took him 
> to
> places that I knew how to get to easily. He picked everything up quickly
> himself. Now, I don't worry about training him on routes. In fact, for our
> after work walks I'm always trying to find diffeerent routes for him to 
> keep
> things exciting and him thinking more.
>
> He also just picks things up. I was heading to the wine store by myself 
> one
> day and told him, once half way down the block, to find the wine store. 
> Now
> I had never labeled this before but Susan and I go there quite often. So 
> he
> figured out that when I said "find the wine store" and he didn't know what 
> I
> was talking about that it must be this place close  to where we often go. 
> He
> finds it every time now. I guess all this means though that I don't really
> train Bogart in specific routes. Yes, he nows where my work is and where I
> genearlly eat lunch because we do that a lot. And when we walk home and 
> get
> to our street he turns without any prompting from me. He even makes
> decisions sometimes about how he wants to go. We walked a slightly 
> different
> route home after work but it landed us at a familiar intersection. I was
> going to stay on the side we were on but Bogart wanted to cross and walk 
> on
> the other side. being that it is all the same to me, I followed his lead.
>
> Probably haven't answered your question but maybe I've managed to give a 
> bit
> of insight into Bogart who is a poodle but who knows if he acts like other
> ppoodles. :)
>
> Gary
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Sarah Clark <goldflash9 at sbcglobal.net>
> Date: Wednesday, May 4, 2011 2:22 pm
> Subject: [nagdu] Question for those with poodles was Re:  Quick Question
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>
>> I've always understood that with the labs, it was important to
>> find things correctly without a lot of mistakes of passing the
>> destination, etc, so that the dog learns the correct way,
>> because its harder to unteach them when they've learned the
>> wrong way.
>> But from what I understand of poodles, it seems that this might
>> not be as big of a deal with poodles -- that messing up won't be
>> likely to mess them up. It seems that if you're telling them to
>> go somewhere and they're resisting, and you get there and it
>> turns out that you're wrong, it seems that they'd be more likely
>> to be thinking "see stupid, I told you.." As opposed to the lab
>> who might be more unsure or hesitant the next time.
>> Am I correct about this?
>>
>> Sarah & Miguel
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "GARY STEEVES"
>> <rainshadowmusic at shaw.ca>To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the
>> National Association of Guide Dog Users" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2011 1:41 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Quick Question
>>
>>
>> >
>> >Hi Mark:
>> >
>> >Forever behind in my emails.
>> >
>> >My personal opinion is that I think it would be best to learn
>> the campus and deal with all the changes and stresses of the
>> first year of school without the newness of a guide dog. From my
>> several experiences at universities and the rigours of school, I
>> know that having to learn with Bogart all the things I needed to
>> learn would have added another layer of work that would have
>> made things more challenging.
>> >
>> >Of course, since getting Bogart last year, I've also learned
>> that when the team is presented with problems that you don't
>> know how to figure out, you'll figure them out together. No one
>> can give you the anser of course, but we all just share our
>> feelings or experiences.
>> >
>> >I think whatever you do, based on how your asking the questions
>> and thinking things through, you'll do just fine.
>> >
>> >Gary
>> >
>> >----- Original Message -----
>> >From: Julie J <julielj at neb.rr.com>
>> >Date: Thursday, April 28, 2011 4:38 pm
>> >Subject: Re: [nagdu] Quick Question
>> >To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
>> Users" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> >
>> >>Mark,
>> >>
>> >>You are too funny!  You think just like me.  I want
>> >>charts and graphs and lists and where are the numbers?  I
>> >>need me some scientific data!
>> >>
>> >>I look at it this way...I am generally going to use a handful of
>> >>routes or variations of these routes in my day to day
>> >>life.  However I travel several times each year for
>> >>work.  I never go to the same place twice and I still need
>> >>to get to my meetings and find a restaurant and all that.
>> >>If I waited until I knew all the routes to every place I was
>> >>going to go before I got a dog, I'd never have a dog.
>> >>
>> >>I ask questions.  I explore on my own.  I let Monty
>> >>make educated guesses. I get lost and discover new things in the
>> >>process.Most of the time it's fun and sometimes it's
>> >>frustrating, but I haven't noticed that my getting lost or
>> >>needing to ask directions has changed a whole bunch from cane
>> to dog.
>> >>
>> >>Best of luck in whatever you decide,
>> >>Julie
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark J. Cadigan"
>> >><kramc11 at gmail.com>To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National
>> >>Association of Guide Dog Users" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> >>Sent: Monday, April 25, 2011 8:12 PM
>> >>Subject: Re: [nagdu] Quick Question
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>>I still don't know if I am going to go get a dog. I know that
>> >>if I was to go get a dog I would be able to take care of it and
>> >>make it work. What I don't know is would it be more beneficial
>> >>to spend a year and know the campus cold before getting the dog,
>> >>or will the month I will be spending on the campus this summer
>> >>with a mobility instructor be sufficient. After that, I will
>> >>know the routes I will need on the first day of school but,
>> >>still won't be familiar with the entire campus. I basically want
>> >>to do what's best for the dog and what will simplify things the
>> >>most. It is a huge campus covering the Beacon Hill and
>> >>government center areas of Boston. I know people feel strongly
>> >>both ways.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>I wish I could have some data to crunch. If only there was a
>> >>survey of people that got there dog before freshmen year, and
>> >>people that waited and I could compare some data.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>Thoughts?
>> >>>
>> >>>Mark
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Sheila Leigland"
>> >><sleigland at bresnan.net>>To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National
>> >>Association of Guide Dog Users" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> >>>Sent: Monday, April 25, 2011 7:59 PM
>> >>>Subject: Re: [nagdu] Quick Question
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>>If you believe you are ready to get a dog go for it and have a
>> >>great time.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>-----Original Message-----
>> >>>>From: Mark J. Cadigan <kramc11 at gmail.com>
>> >>>>Sent: Monday, April 25, 2011 2:04 PM
>> >>>>To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
>> >>Users <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> >>>>Subject: Re: [nagdu] Quick Question
>> >>>>
>> >>>>Good news is I am not much of a party person. In fact, I can't
>> >>stand crazy
>> >>>>parties with all the noise and crowds. I am also 19 so a bit
>> >>older than you
>> >>>>were when you started college for the first time. I am an
>> >>early riser
>> >>>>anyway, so the taking the dog out in the morning won't be a
>> >>problem. I am
>> >>>>normally up at 6:00 except those days when it is noon. Lol.
>> >>But those are
>> >>>>not often.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>Mark
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Julie J"
>> <julielj at neb.rr.com>>>>>To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National
>> Association of Guide Dog Users"
>> >>>><nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> >>>>Sent: Monday, April 25, 2011 10:07 AM
>> >>>>Subject: Re: [nagdu] Quick Question
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>>Mark,
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>I never had a guide dog at college.  The first time I
>> >>went to college I
>> >>>>>was 17 and just out of high school.  I enjoyed staying
>> >>up late, sleeping
>> >>>>>even later, staying with different friends and their parents
>> >>on the
>> >>>>>weekends, going to parties and generally enjoying
>> >>myself.  Having a new
>> >>>>>dog in that situation would have been a disaster.  I had
>> >>no regular
>> >>>>>schedule, only stayed at my dorm room weekdays, was
>> >>constantly running
>> >>>>>around visiting new places and new people.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>Then several years later I went back to college.  By
>> >>then I was married
>> >>>>>and had Kiddo.  I could have easily fit a guide into
>> >>life then.  I lived
>> >>>>>in an apartment, had a regular routine,  and was much
>> >>more settled. I
>> >>>>>actually had three pet dogs then.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>At both colleges I attended there were other students that
>> >>had guide dogs
>> >>>>>One was a younger student with questionable orientation
>> >>skills.  the other
>> >>>>>was an older gentleman who had good skills.  Both seemed
>> >>to be successful
>> >>>>>with their dogs at college.  I think the difference was
>> >>in their
>> >>>>>willingness to put the dog before parties and other random
>> college>>>>>craziness.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>It's all you though.  Best of luck in whatever you decide!
>> >>>>>Julie
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark J. Cadigan"
>> >><kramc11 at gmail.com>>>>To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National
>> >>Association of Guide Dog Users"
>> >>>>><nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> >>>>>Sent: Monday, April 25, 2011 8:17 AM
>> >>>>>Subject: Re: [nagdu] Quick Question
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>>Thanks for all the responses thus far. They are providing
>> >>food for
>> >>>>>>thought.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>Mark J. Cadigan
>> >>>>>>Kramc11 at gmail.com
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>----- Original Message ----- From: "PICKRELL, REBECCA M
>> >>(TASC)" <REBECCA.PICKRELL at tasc.com>
>> >>>>>>To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide
>> >>Dog Users'"
>> >>>>>><nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> >>>>>>Sent: Monday, April 25, 2011 8:34 AM
>> >>>>>>Subject: Re: [nagdu] Quick Question
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>Mark,
>> >>>>>>>How do you feel on this subject and why do you feel a
>> given way?
>> >>>>>>>I got my first dog shortly after high school. She started
>> >>college with
>> >>>>>>>me and completed it with me too.
>> >>>>>>>Looking back, I don't know that it was the right call.
>> >>>>>>>I had a few friends that could not adjust to me having a dog.
>> >>>>>>>Irronically, now that I am no longer using a dog, these
>> >>people are back
>> >>>>>>>in my life. One friend and I had the breakup from hell. The
>> >>dog was only
>> >>>>>>>part of the reason why. We are friends again and looking
>> >>back, I'm sorry
>> >>>>>>>for all the time we lost. I have missed him.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>My rationale for getting my dog when I did was that
>> >>everybody I met
>> >>>>>>>would know me as having a dog and could either accept or
>> >>reject the
>> >>>>>>>package.
>> >>>>>>>Looking back, I'm not sure this is logical. We all change
>> >>over time and
>> >>>>>>>friendships change over time.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>I'd almost urge you to wait, but this is only because of my
>> >>experience.>>>>>Interestingly enough, I met my husband when I
>> >>had a guide dog. He isn't
>> >>>>>>>really a dog person and we still got together. So if you're
>> >>not sure,
>> >>>>>>>I'd wait.
>> >>>>>>>-----Original Message-----
>> >>>>>>>From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-
>> >>bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> >>>>>>>Behalf Of Lisa Irving
>> >>>>>>>Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2011 4:32 AM
>> >>>>>>>To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide
>> >>Dog Users
>> >>>>>>>Subject: Re: [nagdu] Quick Question
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>Mark,
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>I applaud
>> >>>>>>>your maturity, your willingness to seek feedback.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>As an incoming freshman you will incur many new
>> >>responsibilities. It's a
>> >>>>>>>lot
>> >>>>>>>of work to be a college student. It's work whether you are
>> >>blind or
>> >>>>>>>sighted.
>> >>>>>>>The fact of the matter, it's even more work when you are
>> >>blind. Keep
>> >>>>>>>this in
>> >>>>>>>mind as you weigh your options.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>I think back to when I was a freshman, back in the
>> >>80s.  I think I could
>> >>>>>>>have handled caring for my guide dog. What I likely would
>> >>have had
>> >>>>>>>trouble
>> >>>>>>>with is not letting my dog become everyone's toy. I think I
>> >>would have
>> >>>>>>>had
>> >>>>>>>difficulties living in a dorm and setting boundaries with
>> >>room mates.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>There are a lot of us on this list who want to see you be
>> >>successful as
>> >>>>>>>a
>> >>>>>>>student as well as being a guide dog handler. Both are huge
>> >>jobs that
>> >>>>>>>take
>> >>>>>>>determination, consistency and some tenacity.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>Lisa and Bernie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark J.
>> >>Cadigan" <kramc11 at gmail.com>
>> >>>>>>>To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide
>> >>Dog Users"
>> >>>>>>><nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> >>>>>>>Sent: Saturday, April 23, 2011 8:09 AM
>> >>>>>>>Subject: [nagdu] Quick Question
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>Hi all. This is Mark with a quick question. Feel free to
>> >>respond either
>> >>>>>>>>on
>> >>>>>>>>or off list. I will be attending college at Suffolk
>> >>University as a
>> >>>>>>>>freshman in Boston this September. I have been accepted to
>> >>attend the
>> >>>>>>>>Seeing Eye July class. My question is, should I get a dog
>> >>now, or
>> >>>>>>>>should I
>> >>>>>>>>defer it for a year and go to the training the summer
>> >>before soft more
>> >>>>>>>>year. I can see the merits of both, and just curious as
>> to your
>> >>>>>>>>thoughts.
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>_______________________________________________
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> 0cox.net
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
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