[nagdu] Seeing Eye Class Length Shortened

Margo and Arrow margo.downey at verizon.net
Wed Nov 2 12:56:14 UTC 2011


the Seeing Eye uses a limousine service to take students from the airport to 
the school and has done so for many, many years.

The reason Seeing eye is doing this is because peole want a shorter class. 
dog Day will be Wednesday and there will be extra trips during the first 
week but the training will be as it's always been starting the monday of the 
second week.  I heard the South Street solo will be on Sunday morning--the 
first Sunday we'll be in class.  the South Street solo has been on Saturday 
morning.  I've also heard that an extra freelance class will be added.

Margo and Arrow

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jenine Stanley" <jeninems at wowway.com>
To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2011 8:42 AM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Seeing Eye Class Length Shortened


> Just a couple thoughts here on changing dates of arrival, etc. GDF changed
> its arrival dates probably some 10 to 12 years ago. We did so in part
> because we were changing how people were picked up at airports. When I 
> first
> went to GDf in December of 1990, I flew into LaGuardia and had to find the
> shuttle out to Long Island. GDf had paid for this shuttle but it was my
> responsibility to find it and get to the facility. This all took place
> rather early on a Sunday morning. I got into NYC around 8:30 and got out 
> to
> GDF around 9:45. No one was on campus and the driver had no idea which of
> the buildings I was supposed to go to. Neither did I. This was before
> everyone had cell phones and to say I was a little terrified is an
> understatement. All was quickly fixed though when the instructor came and
> found me standing outside.
>
> Back then also it was rare to have more than 2 to 3 people in an 8 to 12
> person class from outside of the northeast.
>
> As we grew, it became apparent that it was best for instructors or school
> representatives to pick people up at the various airports, train stations,
> etc. This lead to other issues having to do strictly with economics.
>
>
> Our training staff is unionized. I think we are still the only guide dog
> school with such union affiliations. This limits the number of hours 
> someone
> can work, etc. Bringing staff in on weekends got very expensive.
>
> Two other factors have come into play even more recently, say the past 5
> years or so. Airline fees used to be significantly cheaper on the 
> weekends.
> Not so anymore, or at least not as much as previously.
>
> Also, we have heard from people that getting to the airport on the 
> weekends
> is more difficult as paratransit and other public transit isn't available
> and family members are often busy. Weekdays seem to be better for folks in
> terms of arriving and being picked up at their home airports.
>
> Now one thing we do  when we invite you to class is to ask about how early
> and late you can be at the airport and be picked up once coming home. We
> then try to schedule flights around that. Our general policy is that we
> schedule flights between 7:00am and 7:00pm whenever possible.
>
> Jenine Stanley
> jeninems at wowway.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Pickrell, Rebecca M (TASC)
> Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2011 8:13 AM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Seeing Eye Class Length Shortened
>
> Yes, I do wonder about that, if the old model was based on the idea (be it
> real or not) that blind people didn't have lives?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Lyn Gwizdak
> Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2011 6:26 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Seeing Eye Class Length Shortened
>
> Hey, didn't ya know that blind folks don't have lives - we don't work, 
> have
> families, etc!!!  Hahahaha!
>
> Really, it seems it is time the schools really look at the realities of 
> the
> lives of blind people and create programs that will work for everyone.
>
> Lyn and Landon
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Julie J." <julielj at neb.rr.com>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Monday, October 31, 2011 2:04 PM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Seeing Eye Class Length Shortened
>
>
>> William,
>>
>> Honestly I am baffled at what uproar you are speaking of?  I've seen a 
>> lot
>> of uproar on this list over the years.  the current discussion hasn't 
>> even
>> left the realm of pleasant conversation.
>>
>> I think when people speak of taking off extended time from work, they are
>> not speaking specifically of TSE, but generally about all guide dog
>> schools.  With the exception of GDB and the few programs that offer home
>> training, it is quite a large chunk of time off of work to attend a guide
>> dog program.  Sure there is a bit of variety in exactly how many days, 
>> but
>> not by much.
>>
>> One of the reasons I have not attended a guide dog program is the length
>> of time necessary away from my responsibilities at home.   Certainly
>> when/if I attend a guide dog program the time away will be a major factor
>> in my decision.  Home training is only offered at a very few programs for
>> first time students.  Of the programs that do offer home training, many
>> have specific requirements that you must meet, meaning they do not offer
>> home training just because you want it.
>>
>> Julie
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 10/31/2011 3:01 PM, William Burley wrote:
>>> Hi Tracy.
>>>
>>> I really don't see where there is disagreement.  What I said is that for
>>> those who have work issues, they can request home training.  This is not
>>> a
>>> difficult proposition to request through SE.  No matter the timeframe,
>>> the
>>> option is there so I am still a little baffled at why folks are in what
>>> appears to be dire straits about this change.
>>>
>>> We also both agree that it's not the end of the world.  So I pleasantly
>>> disagree about us disagreeing *smile*
>>>
>>> I'm just a bit confused as to why people are creating all these dire
>>> options
>>> when they haven't even gotten the full scoop from SE.
>>>
>>> Again, I doubt SE is doing things exactly as they did even 10 years ago.
>>> As
>>> long as it is not detrimental to the training experience and other
>>> personal
>>> factors, I don't see what the uproar is.  And I'm not directing that at
>>> you.
>>> I'm speaking of the arguments themselves with lack of accompanying 
>>> facts.
>>>
>>> William Burley
>>> William.burley3 at gmail.com
>>>
>>> A leader in providing virtual paralegal and virtual assistant services!
>>>
>>> Follow Burley-Wilson&  Associates, L.L.C.
>>>
>>> Facebook:  www.facebook.com/BurleyWilson
>>> Twitter:  www.twitter.com/BurleyWilson
>>> Blog:  www.burleywilson.wordpress.com
>>> Skype:  BurleyWilson
>>>
>>> *Contact us for a FREE 30-minute consultation TODAY!
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>> Behalf
>>> Of Tracy Carcione
>>> Sent: Monday, October 31, 2011 1:06 PM
>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Seeing Eye Class Length Shortened
>>>
>>> Hi William.
>>> I disagree.  Getting back on a Tuesday instead of a Thursday would make 
>>> a
>>> difference to me.  On Tuesday, I'd probably work the rest of the week.
>>> On
>>> Thursday, I'd probably figure the week was already lost, so I'd take
>>> Friday as well.
>>> Not the end of my world either way, but I expect my boss would rather
>>> have
>>> those 3 extra days from me than not.
>>>
>>> And if I had the bad luck to not have a dog work out, and have to go 
>>> back
>>> way too soon, I think I'd work hard to get home training.  3 weeks off
>>> every 8 or 9 years is workable.  Twice in a year or two I think would be
>>> a
>>> problem.
>>> Tracy
>>>
>>>> Hi all.
>>>>
>>>> I am really enjoying this conversation and it reminds me that change is
>>>> something that comes with great difficulty in most instances.
>>>>
>>>> While I understand the discussions about the impact of training with a
>>>> new
>>>> guide as it relates to career, I am finding it hard to rationalize how
>>>> going
>>>> home on a Tuesday rather than Thursday, in the case of the Seeing Eye
>>>> training schedule, will make much difference.  If you move the two days
>>>> off
>>>> the end, that will be toward the end of your training and you still 
>>>> have
>>>> missed a substantial amount of work.  I would find it a little
>>>> unrealistic
>>>> to think if that employer did decide to allow you to go to training 
>>>> that
>>>> a
>>>> two day earlier return would be the determining factor in whether you
>>>> keep
>>>> your job or not.  If it were to that point, you would know it before
>>>> going
>>>> to training in the first place.
>>>>
>>>> Please, please note that when I say you I am using it in the general
>>>> sense.
>>>> I don't want anyone thinking I am singling them out because I am not.
>>>>
>>>> I just think the issues that are being raised are easily dealt with by
>>>> talking with both your employer and the Seeing Eye...especially since
>>>> they
>>>> offer home training.  There are options other than always taking a 
>>>> month
>>>> off
>>>> from work...or as a retrain, 18 days with the new schedule.
>>>>
>>>> William Burley
>>>> William.burley3 at gmail.com
>>>>
>>>> A leader in providing virtual paralegal and virtual assistant services!
>>>>
>>>> Follow Burley-Wilson&  Associates, L.L.C.
>>>>
>>>> Facebook:  www.facebook.com/BurleyWilson
>>>> Twitter:  www.twitter.com/BurleyWilson
>>>> Blog:  www.burleywilson.wordpress.com
>>>> Skype:  BurleyWilson
>>>>
>>>> *Contact us for a FREE 30-minute consultation TODAY!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>> Behalf
>>>> Of Pickrell, Rebecca M (TASC)
>>>> Sent: Monday, October 31, 2011 11:53 AM
>>>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Seeing Eye Class Length Shortened
>>>>
>>>> Exactly. I could probably be away from work for a month, I did it when 
>>>> I
>>>> had
>>>> my daughter. Still, I do need to ask myself from a career perspective 
>>>> if
>>>> it
>>>> is worth doing to get a guide dog. And the answer is that while I did 
>>>> it
>>>> once, I'm not sure I'd do it again. A month is a long time. I worry
>>>> about
>>>> the impact on my career should I have a match not work out or the dog
>>>> not
>>>> be
>>>> able to work soon after coming home.
>>>> I had to sell my work on why and how a dog would help me be a more
>>>> effective
>>>> employee. It was very stressful.
>>>>
>>>> Likewise, everybody understands having a baby, though I did see some
>>>> disparty in that v. what my male coworkers are asked, mostly I was 
>>>> asked
>>>> repeatedly when I would "go on maternity leave".  I pointed out that
>>>> they
>>>> don't ask the guys when they will have heart attack, break bones, roll
>>>> off
>>>> their bikes, and that they would deal with it just fine when I called
>>>> and
>>>> said "I'm taking leave now".
>>>> I think some of this is a disparty in the same process fits many 
>>>> people,
>>>> but
>>>> people get bogged in who v. what and that muddies things.
>>>> I also know that I couldn't be away from my daughter for a month. She
>>>> needs
>>>> me in a way work never has.
>>>> I am not yet ready for another dog. I don't know when or if I will be. 
>>>> I
>>>> do
>>>> know that the being away from home leans me toward the "no" side of the
>>>> house.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>> Behalf
>>>> Of Shannon L. Dillon
>>>> Sent: Monday, October 31, 2011 12:35 PM
>>>> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Seeing Eye Class Length Shortened
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I agree with taking less time out of the work week for training and 
>>>> also
>>>> for
>>>> providing in-home schedules for students.  We need to continue to 
>>>> remind
>>>> schools how important those alternatives are to us so that we can have
>>>> our
>>>> guide dogs but maintain employment and families.
>>>> SHANNON L. DILLON
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2011 11:02:41 -0400
>>>>> From: carcione at access.net
>>>>> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Seeing Eye Class Length Shortened
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Sam.
>>>>> If you're so moved, you might write to TSE and tell them how you feel.
>>>>> I
>>>>> wrote to gradservices, myself. I've heard of instances before when TSE
>>>>> changed things because graduates spoke up.
>>>>> Tracy
>>>>>> I agree. It makes sense to leave a few days early, as that would put
>>>>> you
>>>>>> close to the begining of a work week. I thought about posting that on
>>>>>> the TSE list, but let's just say that things are at the point where
>>>>> I'm
>>>>>> not willing to get in the middle of these arguments. Based on how
>>>>> things
>>>>>> are going with everything on there, I figure it is better to stay
>>>> neutral.
>>>>>> On 10/30/2011 10:23 AM, Tracy Carcione wrote:
>>>>>>> I'm glad class is a little shorter, but I'm a bit annoyed that it's
>>>>> the
>>>>>>> weekend they've cut off. For me, arranging time off work is the
>>>>> hardest
>>>>>>> part of getting ready for class. I would be a lot happier if they'd
>>>>>>> start
>>>>>>> on Saturday and drop a couple workdays at the end. Am I the only
>>>>> person
>>>>>>> who feels this way?
>>>>>>> Tracy
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I think that there is just a little less down time. That was the
>>>> length
>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>> my last class; I thought it was more challenging, or invigorating.
>>>>>>>> CL
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Oct 29, 2011, at 4:44 PM, Jewel wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> What effect, if any, will this have on the training sessions? It
>>>> seems
>>>>>>>>> it gives people less time to get acclimated to the area, but do
>>>> people
>>>>>>>>> need that extra time?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Curious,
>>>>>>>>> Jewel
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 10/29/11, Margo and Arrow<margo.downey at verizon.net>  wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>> From: "The Seeing Eye, Inc."<noreply at seeingeye.org>
>>>>>>>>>> To: "Margo Downey"<margo.downey at verizon.net>
>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, October 28, 2011 2:11 PM
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Seeing Eye Class Length Shortened
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Dear Graduates,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> At The Seeing Eye, we've always been committed to serving our
>>>>>>>>>> students
>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>> the best way possible. Over the years, many students have asked 
>>>>>>>>>> if
>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>>>> be possible to have a shorter stay here in order to return to
>>>>> their
>>>>>>>>>> friends,
>>>>>>>>>> families, and jobs.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> In response, we've streamlined our training process in order to
>>>> allow
>>>>>>>>>> our
>>>>>>>>>> students to get home as quickly as possible. Starting with our
>>>>> first
>>>>>>>>>> class
>>>>>>>>>> in January, we will be able to reduce the time students spend on
>>>>>>>>>> campus
>>>>>>>>>> by
>>>>>>>>>> two days. Instead of arriving Saturday, students will now arrive
>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>>> Monday.
>>>>>>>>>> This will enable you to return home in two fewer days - 
>>>>>>>>>> retraining
>>>>>>>>>> students
>>>>>>>>>> will stay for 18 days, and new students for 25 days.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Information on the updated class dates for 2012 can be found at:
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.SeeingEye.org/Schedule
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> David Johnson
>>>>>>>>>> Director of Instruction&  Training
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> This message was sent to margo.downey at verizon.net by
>>>>>>>>>> noreply at seeingeye.org
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> You can modify/update your subscription via the link below.
>>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>>>
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