[nagdu] Seeing Eye Class Length Shortened

Thu Nov 3 16:23:11 UTC 2011

Margo,

I like the option of an extra freelance class! That's cool.

Tami

On 11/02/2011 05:56 AM, Margo and Arrow wrote:
> the Seeing Eye uses a limousine service to take students from the
> airport to the school and has done so for many, many years.
>
> The reason Seeing eye is doing this is because peole want a shorter
> class. dog Day will be Wednesday and there will be extra trips during
> the first week but the training will be as it's always been starting the
> monday of the second week. I heard the South Street solo will be on
> Sunday morning--the first Sunday we'll be in class. the South Street
> solo has been on Saturday morning. I've also heard that an extra
> freelance class will be added.
>
> Margo and Arrow
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jenine Stanley" <jeninems at wowway.com>
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2011 8:42 AM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Seeing Eye Class Length Shortened
>
>
>> Just a couple thoughts here on changing dates of arrival, etc. GDF
>> changed
>> its arrival dates probably some 10 to 12 years ago. We did so in part
>> because we were changing how people were picked up at airports. When I
>> first
>> went to GDf in December of 1990, I flew into LaGuardia and had to find
>> the
>> shuttle out to Long Island. GDf had paid for this shuttle but it was my
>> responsibility to find it and get to the facility. This all took place
>> rather early on a Sunday morning. I got into NYC around 8:30 and got
>> out to
>> GDF around 9:45. No one was on campus and the driver had no idea which of
>> the buildings I was supposed to go to. Neither did I. This was before
>> everyone had cell phones and to say I was a little terrified is an
>> understatement. All was quickly fixed though when the instructor came and
>> found me standing outside.
>>
>> Back then also it was rare to have more than 2 to 3 people in an 8 to 12
>> person class from outside of the northeast.
>>
>> As we grew, it became apparent that it was best for instructors or school
>> representatives to pick people up at the various airports, train
>> stations,
>> etc. This lead to other issues having to do strictly with economics.
>>
>>
>> Our training staff is unionized. I think we are still the only guide dog
>> school with such union affiliations. This limits the number of hours
>> someone
>> can work, etc. Bringing staff in on weekends got very expensive.
>>
>> Two other factors have come into play even more recently, say the past 5
>> years or so. Airline fees used to be significantly cheaper on the
>> weekends.
>> Not so anymore, or at least not as much as previously.
>>
>> Also, we have heard from people that getting to the airport on the
>> weekends
>> is more difficult as paratransit and other public transit isn't available
>> and family members are often busy. Weekdays seem to be better for
>> folks in
>> terms of arriving and being picked up at their home airports.
>>
>> Now one thing we do when we invite you to class is to ask about how early
>> and late you can be at the airport and be picked up once coming home. We
>> then try to schedule flights around that. Our general policy is that we
>> schedule flights between 7:00am and 7:00pm whenever possible.
>>
>> Jenine Stanley
>> jeninems at wowway.com
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf
>> Of Pickrell, Rebecca M (TASC)
>> Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2011 8:13 AM
>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Seeing Eye Class Length Shortened
>>
>> Yes, I do wonder about that, if the old model was based on the idea
>> (be it
>> real or not) that blind people didn't have lives?
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf
>> Of Lyn Gwizdak
>> Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2011 6:26 PM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Seeing Eye Class Length Shortened
>>
>> Hey, didn't ya know that blind folks don't have lives - we don't work,
>> have
>> families, etc!!! Hahahaha!
>>
>> Really, it seems it is time the schools really look at the realities
>> of the
>> lives of blind people and create programs that will work for everyone.
>>
>> Lyn and Landon
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Julie J." <julielj at neb.rr.com>
>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Monday, October 31, 2011 2:04 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Seeing Eye Class Length Shortened
>>
>>
>>> William,
>>>
>>> Honestly I am baffled at what uproar you are speaking of? I've seen a
>>> lot
>>> of uproar on this list over the years. the current discussion hasn't
>>> even
>>> left the realm of pleasant conversation.
>>>
>>> I think when people speak of taking off extended time from work, they
>>> are
>>> not speaking specifically of TSE, but generally about all guide dog
>>> schools. With the exception of GDB and the few programs that offer home
>>> training, it is quite a large chunk of time off of work to attend a
>>> guide
>>> dog program. Sure there is a bit of variety in exactly how many days,
>>> but
>>> not by much.
>>>
>>> One of the reasons I have not attended a guide dog program is the length
>>> of time necessary away from my responsibilities at home. Certainly
>>> when/if I attend a guide dog program the time away will be a major
>>> factor
>>> in my decision. Home training is only offered at a very few programs for
>>> first time students. Of the programs that do offer home training, many
>>> have specific requirements that you must meet, meaning they do not offer
>>> home training just because you want it.
>>>
>>> Julie
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 10/31/2011 3:01 PM, William Burley wrote:
>>>> Hi Tracy.
>>>>
>>>> I really don't see where there is disagreement. What I said is that for
>>>> those who have work issues, they can request home training. This is not
>>>> a
>>>> difficult proposition to request through SE. No matter the timeframe,
>>>> the
>>>> option is there so I am still a little baffled at why folks are in what
>>>> appears to be dire straits about this change.
>>>>
>>>> We also both agree that it's not the end of the world. So I pleasantly
>>>> disagree about us disagreeing *smile*
>>>>
>>>> I'm just a bit confused as to why people are creating all these dire
>>>> options
>>>> when they haven't even gotten the full scoop from SE.
>>>>
>>>> Again, I doubt SE is doing things exactly as they did even 10 years
>>>> ago.
>>>> As
>>>> long as it is not detrimental to the training experience and other
>>>> personal
>>>> factors, I don't see what the uproar is. And I'm not directing that at
>>>> you.
>>>> I'm speaking of the arguments themselves with lack of accompanying
>>>> facts.
>>>>
>>>> William Burley
>>>> William.burley3 at gmail.com
>>>>
>>>> A leader in providing virtual paralegal and virtual assistant services!
>>>>
>>>> Follow Burley-Wilson& Associates, L.L.C.
>>>>
>>>> Facebook: www.facebook.com/BurleyWilson
>>>> Twitter: www.twitter.com/BurleyWilson
>>>> Blog: www.burleywilson.wordpress.com
>>>> Skype: BurleyWilson
>>>>
>>>> *Contact us for a FREE 30-minute consultation TODAY!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>> Behalf
>>>> Of Tracy Carcione
>>>> Sent: Monday, October 31, 2011 1:06 PM
>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Seeing Eye Class Length Shortened
>>>>
>>>> Hi William.
>>>> I disagree. Getting back on a Tuesday instead of a Thursday would
>>>> make a
>>>> difference to me. On Tuesday, I'd probably work the rest of the week.
>>>> On
>>>> Thursday, I'd probably figure the week was already lost, so I'd take
>>>> Friday as well.
>>>> Not the end of my world either way, but I expect my boss would rather
>>>> have
>>>> those 3 extra days from me than not.
>>>>
>>>> And if I had the bad luck to not have a dog work out, and have to go
>>>> back
>>>> way too soon, I think I'd work hard to get home training. 3 weeks off
>>>> every 8 or 9 years is workable. Twice in a year or two I think would be
>>>> a
>>>> problem.
>>>> Tracy
>>>>
>>>>> Hi all.
>>>>>
>>>>> I am really enjoying this conversation and it reminds me that
>>>>> change is
>>>>> something that comes with great difficulty in most instances.
>>>>>
>>>>> While I understand the discussions about the impact of training with a
>>>>> new
>>>>> guide as it relates to career, I am finding it hard to rationalize how
>>>>> going
>>>>> home on a Tuesday rather than Thursday, in the case of the Seeing Eye
>>>>> training schedule, will make much difference. If you move the two days
>>>>> off
>>>>> the end, that will be toward the end of your training and you still
>>>>> have
>>>>> missed a substantial amount of work. I would find it a little
>>>>> unrealistic
>>>>> to think if that employer did decide to allow you to go to training
>>>>> that
>>>>> a
>>>>> two day earlier return would be the determining factor in whether you
>>>>> keep
>>>>> your job or not. If it were to that point, you would know it before
>>>>> going
>>>>> to training in the first place.
>>>>>
>>>>> Please, please note that when I say you I am using it in the general
>>>>> sense.
>>>>> I don't want anyone thinking I am singling them out because I am not.
>>>>>
>>>>> I just think the issues that are being raised are easily dealt with by
>>>>> talking with both your employer and the Seeing Eye...especially since
>>>>> they
>>>>> offer home training. There are options other than always taking a
>>>>> month
>>>>> off
>>>>> from work...or as a retrain, 18 days with the new schedule.
>>>>>
>>>>> William Burley
>>>>> William.burley3 at gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>> A leader in providing virtual paralegal and virtual assistant
>>>>> services!
>>>>>
>>>>> Follow Burley-Wilson& Associates, L.L.C.
>>>>>
>>>>> Facebook: www.facebook.com/BurleyWilson
>>>>> Twitter: www.twitter.com/BurleyWilson
>>>>> Blog: www.burleywilson.wordpress.com
>>>>> Skype: BurleyWilson
>>>>>
>>>>> *Contact us for a FREE 30-minute consultation TODAY!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>>> Behalf
>>>>> Of Pickrell, Rebecca M (TASC)
>>>>> Sent: Monday, October 31, 2011 11:53 AM
>>>>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Seeing Eye Class Length Shortened
>>>>>
>>>>> Exactly. I could probably be away from work for a month, I did it
>>>>> when I
>>>>> had
>>>>> my daughter. Still, I do need to ask myself from a career
>>>>> perspective if
>>>>> it
>>>>> is worth doing to get a guide dog. And the answer is that while I
>>>>> did it
>>>>> once, I'm not sure I'd do it again. A month is a long time. I worry
>>>>> about
>>>>> the impact on my career should I have a match not work out or the dog
>>>>> not
>>>>> be
>>>>> able to work soon after coming home.
>>>>> I had to sell my work on why and how a dog would help me be a more
>>>>> effective
>>>>> employee. It was very stressful.
>>>>>
>>>>> Likewise, everybody understands having a baby, though I did see some
>>>>> disparty in that v. what my male coworkers are asked, mostly I was
>>>>> asked
>>>>> repeatedly when I would "go on maternity leave". I pointed out that
>>>>> they
>>>>> don't ask the guys when they will have heart attack, break bones, roll
>>>>> off
>>>>> their bikes, and that they would deal with it just fine when I called
>>>>> and
>>>>> said "I'm taking leave now".
>>>>> I think some of this is a disparty in the same process fits many
>>>>> people,
>>>>> but
>>>>> people get bogged in who v. what and that muddies things.
>>>>> I also know that I couldn't be away from my daughter for a month. She
>>>>> needs
>>>>> me in a way work never has.
>>>>> I am not yet ready for another dog. I don't know when or if I will
>>>>> be. I
>>>>> do
>>>>> know that the being away from home leans me toward the "no" side of
>>>>> the
>>>>> house.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>>> Behalf
>>>>> Of Shannon L. Dillon
>>>>> Sent: Monday, October 31, 2011 12:35 PM
>>>>> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Seeing Eye Class Length Shortened
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I agree with taking less time out of the work week for training and
>>>>> also
>>>>> for
>>>>> providing in-home schedules for students. We need to continue to
>>>>> remind
>>>>> schools how important those alternatives are to us so that we can have
>>>>> our
>>>>> guide dogs but maintain employment and families.
>>>>> SHANNON L. DILLON
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2011 11:02:41 -0400
>>>>>> From: carcione at access.net
>>>>>> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Seeing Eye Class Length Shortened
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Sam.
>>>>>> If you're so moved, you might write to TSE and tell them how you
>>>>>> feel.
>>>>>> I
>>>>>> wrote to gradservices, myself. I've heard of instances before when
>>>>>> TSE
>>>>>> changed things because graduates spoke up.
>>>>>> Tracy
>>>>>>> I agree. It makes sense to leave a few days early, as that would put
>>>>>> you
>>>>>>> close to the begining of a work week. I thought about posting
>>>>>>> that on
>>>>>>> the TSE list, but let's just say that things are at the point where
>>>>>> I'm
>>>>>>> not willing to get in the middle of these arguments. Based on how
>>>>>> things
>>>>>>> are going with everything on there, I figure it is better to stay
>>>>> neutral.
>>>>>>> On 10/30/2011 10:23 AM, Tracy Carcione wrote:
>>>>>>>> I'm glad class is a little shorter, but I'm a bit annoyed that it's
>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> weekend they've cut off. For me, arranging time off work is the
>>>>>> hardest
>>>>>>>> part of getting ready for class. I would be a lot happier if they'd
>>>>>>>> start
>>>>>>>> on Saturday and drop a couple workdays at the end. Am I the only
>>>>>> person
>>>>>>>> who feels this way?
>>>>>>>> Tracy
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I think that there is just a little less down time. That was the
>>>>> length
>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>> my last class; I thought it was more challenging, or invigorating.
>>>>>>>>> CL
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Oct 29, 2011, at 4:44 PM, Jewel wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> What effect, if any, will this have on the training sessions? It
>>>>> seems
>>>>>>>>>> it gives people less time to get acclimated to the area, but do
>>>>> people
>>>>>>>>>> need that extra time?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Curious,
>>>>>>>>>> Jewel
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 10/29/11, Margo and Arrow<margo.downey at verizon.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>>> From: "The Seeing Eye, Inc."<noreply at seeingeye.org>
>>>>>>>>>>> To: "Margo Downey"<margo.downey at verizon.net>
>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, October 28, 2011 2:11 PM
>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Seeing Eye Class Length Shortened
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Dear Graduates,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> At The Seeing Eye, we've always been committed to serving our
>>>>>>>>>>> students
>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>> the best way possible. Over the years, many students have
>>>>>>>>>>> asked if
>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>>>>> be possible to have a shorter stay here in order to return to
>>>>>> their
>>>>>>>>>>> friends,
>>>>>>>>>>> families, and jobs.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> In response, we've streamlined our training process in order to
>>>>> allow
>>>>>>>>>>> our
>>>>>>>>>>> students to get home as quickly as possible. Starting with our
>>>>>> first
>>>>>>>>>>> class
>>>>>>>>>>> in January, we will be able to reduce the time students spend on
>>>>>>>>>>> campus
>>>>>>>>>>> by
>>>>>>>>>>> two days. Instead of arriving Saturday, students will now arrive
>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>>>> Monday.
>>>>>>>>>>> This will enable you to return home in two fewer days -
>>>>>>>>>>> retraining
>>>>>>>>>>> students
>>>>>>>>>>> will stay for 18 days, and new students for 25 days.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Information on the updated class dates for 2012 can be found at:
>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.SeeingEye.org/Schedule
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> David Johnson
>>>>>>>>>>> Director of Instruction& Training
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> This message was sent to margo.downey at verizon.net by
>>>>>>>>>>> noreply at seeingeye.org
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> You can modify/update your subscription via the link below.
>>>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>> om
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>>>>>
>>>>>
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