[nagdu] I Talked to the guy in Michigan

Wed Nov 9 13:41:32 UTC 2011

Chasity,
    The State's Attorney may be a part of the Attorney General's office. 
They are the local jurisdiction responsible for prosecuting criminal cases 
in the state. Some jurisdictions refer to them as District Attorneys.

Fraternally yours,
Marion


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Chasity Jackson" <chasityvanda at charter.net>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2011 9:46 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] I Talked to the guy in Michigan


> Marion,
>
> What do you mean by the state attorney? Are you referring to the attorney 
> general?
> Chasity
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Marion Gwizdala" <blind411 at verizon.net>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2011 6:14 PM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] I Talked to the guy in Michigan
>
>
>> Chasity,
>>    He already has a lawyer to pursue this. That lawyer is the State's 
>> Attorney! In Michigan it is a criminal offense. BTW, feel free to give 
>> him my phone number and have him give me a call. It is below my 
>> signature.
>>
>> Fraternally yours,
>> Marion Gwizdala, President
>> National Association of Guide Dog Users (NAGDU)
>> National Federation of the Blind
>> 813-626-2789
>> President at NAGDU.ORG
>> HTTP://WWW.NAGDU.ORG
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Chasity Jackson" <chasityvanda at charter.net>
>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2011 5:46 PM
>> Subject: [nagdu] I Talked to the guy in Michigan
>>
>>
>>>I called the guy in Grand Rapids. He called me back. I have a friend who 
>>>is an advocate in New York. She has been an advocate for over 40 years. I 
>>>connected the two of them. She is advising him on how to legally pursue 
>>>this from here. Marion, he would also like to speak with you, and I will 
>>>be emailing you his info. He is looking for a lawyer to pursue this. 
>>>Thanks.
>>> Chasity
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "Larry D. Keeler" <lkeeler at comcast.net>
>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2011 4:26 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Restaurant ordered service dog to lobby
>>>
>>>
>>>> At State Convention I met a few.  We are in the beginning stages of 
>>>> organizing but most of them appear to be from the Southeast and Grand 
>>>> Rapids is on the West.
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>> From: "Marion Gwizdala" <blind411 at verizon.net>
>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2011 4:24 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Restaurant ordered service dog to lobby
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Larry,
>>>>>    Do we have any guide dog users on that side of the Wolverine State?
>>>>>
>>>>> Marion
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>> From: "Larry D. Keeler" <lkeeler at comcast.net>
>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2011 3:56 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Restaurant ordered service dog to lobby
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Its on the other side of the state from me or I would!
>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>> From: "Marion Gwizdala" <blind411 at verizon.net>
>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2011 2:35 PM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Restaurant ordered service dog to lobby
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I would like to see a NAGDU member go to this restaurant and file a 
>>>>>>>criminal complaint aginst the manager. Violation of Michigan's access 
>>>>>>>law is a second degree misdemeanor.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Fraternally yours,
>>>>>>> Marion
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>>> From: "Dan Weiner" <dcwein at dcwein.cnc.net>
>>>>>>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog 
>>>>>>> Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2011 10:50 AM
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Restaurant ordered service dog to lobby
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>I would like to see that restaurant go out of business.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Dan
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
>>>>>>>> Behalf
>>>>>>>> Of Ginger Kutsch
>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2011 10:42 AM
>>>>>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>>>>>> Subject: [nagdu] Restaurant ordered service dog to lobby
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Restaurant ordered service dog to lobby
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Frank Eckl goes everywhere with Spruce
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Published : Monday, 07 Nov 2011,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> By Leon Hendrix
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> CASCADE TOWNSHIP, Mich. (WOOD) - Frank Eckl and his family --  
>>>>>>>> including his
>>>>>>>> service dog -- went to dinner Saturday night at Don Julio's 
>>>>>>>> restaurant in
>>>>>>>> Cascade Township. But the manager said the dog had to stay in the 
>>>>>>>> lobby.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Eckl told 24 Hour News 8 he takes the dog with him wherever he 
>>>>>>>> goes. He uses
>>>>>>>> the dog because of a disability he has that causes occasional 
>>>>>>>> seizures. When
>>>>>>>> he's alone, it's his service dog Spruce that calls for help and 
>>>>>>>> helps him
>>>>>>>> get up if he's fallen to the ground.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> He said he's never had a problem bringing Spruce with him since the 
>>>>>>>> law
>>>>>>>> allows it.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> But the manager at Don Julio's wouldn't allow the dog in the dining 
>>>>>>>> area.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "She [the manager] said we were more than welcome to stay, but 
>>>>>>>> patrons in
>>>>>>>> the restaurant and the manager didn't want dog hair in the 
>>>>>>>> restaurant," he
>>>>>>>> said. "I was shocked that we were asked to have the dog leave and 
>>>>>>>> we could
>>>>>>>> stay."
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The manager-on-duty admitted they insisted the dog stay in the 
>>>>>>>> entrance way
>>>>>>>> to the restaurant, and that she would make the same request it 
>>>>>>>> again. She
>>>>>>>> said patrons at the restaurant complained about the dog and that 
>>>>>>>> some opted
>>>>>>>> to leave because of sanitation concerns.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "I asked for him to bring the dog out to the main entrance to the 
>>>>>>>> lobby,"
>>>>>>>> the manager said. She refused to provide her name to 24 Hour News 
>>>>>>>> 8. "I
>>>>>>>> didn't ask for him to take his dog back home, to take his dog to 
>>>>>>>> the car or
>>>>>>>> leave him outside in the middle of the parking lot at all."
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Eckl and his family simply left the restaurant and went to the IHOP
>>>>>>>> restaurant next door, where they were welcomed with Spruce.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Others that use service dogs have been asked to comply by the same 
>>>>>>>> rules
>>>>>>>> without complaint, the manager at Don Julio's said.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "I can't keep every customer happy," she said, adding that she was 
>>>>>>>> aware
>>>>>>>> that Spruce was a service dog but didn't realize it was Eckl who 
>>>>>>>> used him.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "I knew it was not for him. He didn't tell me the service dog was 
>>>>>>>> for him...
>>>>>>>> He wasn't clear to me either."
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Jocelyn Dettloff, a representative for the Disability Advocates of 
>>>>>>>> Kent
>>>>>>>> County, said the violation is more serious than unhappy customers.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "That's insane!" Dettloff said. "I mean, who would say that you 
>>>>>>>> have to
>>>>>>>> leave your cane or your mobility device at the door. People who 
>>>>>>>> rely on
>>>>>>>> service animals -- it's the exact same thing."
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> But Dettloff says there is a problem with the laws prohibiting
>>>>>>>> discrimination against the disabled because they are rarely 
>>>>>>>> enforced. The
>>>>>>>> most someone like Eckl can do, she said, is file a complaint that 
>>>>>>>> could take
>>>>>>>> more than a year to get attention. Even then, she said, there is no
>>>>>>>> punishment for establishments that break the law.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Eckl could file a civil lawsuit as well, Dettloff said, but he 
>>>>>>>> would not
>>>>>>>> likely be awarded damages.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "The law definitely needs some sort of stricter enforcement," she 
>>>>>>>> said.
>>>>>>>> "There is no strict enforcement like the health department or the 
>>>>>>>> fire
>>>>>>>> department."
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Eckl says he isn't seeking monetary damages and doesn't really want 
>>>>>>>> anything
>>>>>>>> from Don Julio's, other than an apology and training for its staff.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "I'm not out for malice here," he said, adding that he wouldn't go 
>>>>>>>> back to
>>>>>>>> the establishment again.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The manager at Don Julio's said she stands by her actions and would 
>>>>>>>> do the
>>>>>>>> same thing again if Eckl returned.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "I have to," she said. "I can't have any kind of animal be around 
>>>>>>>> food. It's
>>>>>>>> kinda hard having most of my customers leave out on me because of 
>>>>>>>> one
>>>>>>>> customer."
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Eckl wrote a letter about his experience and sent it to area media 
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> groups that advocate for the disabled:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> To whom it may concern,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This past Saturday, November 4th, 2011, at 6pm, my family and I 
>>>>>>>> wanted to
>>>>>>>> eat at you establishment. This included my wife Karen, and my 
>>>>>>>> daughter Lydia
>>>>>>>> (who happens to have Special Needs.) My Service Dog, Spruce, was 
>>>>>>>> with me.
>>>>>>>> Spruce was wearing her jacket that displays "SERVICE DOG." I have 
>>>>>>>> her for
>>>>>>>> medical needs and she regularly assists me in my daily life.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> We entered your restaurant, were seated in the back where no one 
>>>>>>>> else was
>>>>>>>> seated. The gentleman that seated us even turned on lights for us. 
>>>>>>>> We were
>>>>>>>> given menus and served water. It was at this time that a waitress 
>>>>>>>> addressed
>>>>>>>> us and stated: "You can stay but your dog must wait outside." I 
>>>>>>>> explained
>>>>>>>> the public law which states that I can have my Service Dog with me. 
>>>>>>>> We were
>>>>>>>> then told that the manager had complaints about "dog hair" and that 
>>>>>>>> a dog
>>>>>>>> was disruptive to the other patrons. When I said that Spruce stays 
>>>>>>>> and helps
>>>>>>>> me, we were asked to take Spruce out. We then left. Upon calling
>>>>>>>> authorities, the police stated this was a "civil matter" and to 
>>>>>>>> seek
>>>>>>>> council.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I am an Honorably Discharged (10 yr) USAF veteran, who served his 
>>>>>>>> country in
>>>>>>>> both war and peace-time. It's hard to belief that discrimination 
>>>>>>>> such as
>>>>>>>> this exists today. My disability is due to of my service. The real 
>>>>>>>> issue is
>>>>>>>> no one with a disability should be told they can't have their 
>>>>>>>> assistance
>>>>>>>> with them and then have to leave an establishment.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I find myself with the opportunity to help educate your 
>>>>>>>> organization with
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> the Law and others by making this incident public. I choose not to 
>>>>>>>> seek
>>>>>>>> council, but rather inform you and other organizations of this 
>>>>>>>> incident in
>>>>>>>> hopes that this type of discrimination will not take place again.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> From the ADA: Service animals are animals that are individually 
>>>>>>>> trained to
>>>>>>>> perform tasks for people with disabilities such as guiding people 
>>>>>>>> who are
>>>>>>>> blind, alerting people who are deaf, pulling wheelchairs, alerting 
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> protecting a person who is having a seizure, or performing "other" 
>>>>>>>> special
>>>>>>>> tasks. Service animals are working animals, not pets.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Under the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA), businesses and
>>>>>>>> organizations that serve the public must allow people with 
>>>>>>>> disabilities to
>>>>>>>> bring their service animals into all areas of the facility where 
>>>>>>>> customers
>>>>>>>> are normally allowed to go. This federal law applies to all 
>>>>>>>> businesses open
>>>>>>>> to the public, including restaurants, hotels, taxis and shuttles, 
>>>>>>>> grocery
>>>>>>>> and department stores, hospitals and medical offices, theaters, 
>>>>>>>> health
>>>>>>>> clubs, parks, and zoos.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Michigan Statutes, 1953, Section 750.502c (last amended in 1984 by 
>>>>>>>> Public
>>>>>>>> Act 110)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Michigan statutory law guarantees a blind person the legal right to 
>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>> accompanied by a dog guide in harness in all public accommodations 
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> educational institutions and on all public conveyances. The dog 
>>>>>>>> guide user
>>>>>>>> can be required to produce identification, such as the I.D. card 
>>>>>>>> furnished
>>>>>>>> by the dog guide school from which the dog was obtained.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Public accommodations include trains, buses, taxis, elevators, 
>>>>>>>> boats, and
>>>>>>>> other common carriers...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Violation: Any person who interferes with the above enumerated 
>>>>>>>> rights is
>>>>>>>> guilty of a misdemeanor and therefore punishable under Michigan 
>>>>>>>> law...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In acknowledgement of this letter, I ask only for a formal apology 
>>>>>>>> and for
>>>>>>>> you to conduct training with your staff on the Laws concerning 
>>>>>>>> customers
>>>>>>>> with Service Dogs. This is the only compensation I wish to ask of 
>>>>>>>> you. This
>>>>>>>> incident was embarrassing and offensive. I would hope that anyone 
>>>>>>>> with a
>>>>>>>> disability who chooses to dine at Don Julio's would never encounter 
>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>> intolerance.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Frank J. Eckl
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>> Comment Privately
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>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Comment to 24 Hour News 8
>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>>>>>> for nagdu:
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>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
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>>>>>>>> for nagdu:
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>>>>> for nagdu:
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
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>>>>>> nagdu:
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nagdu mailing list
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>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
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