[nagdu] I Talked to the guy in Michigan

Chasity Jackson chasityvanda at charter.net
Wed Nov 9 02:46:15 UTC 2011


Marion,

What do you mean by the state attorney? Are you referring to the attorney 
general?
Chasity
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Marion Gwizdala" <blind411 at verizon.net>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2011 6:14 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] I Talked to the guy in Michigan


> Chasity,
>    He already has a lawyer to pursue this. That lawyer is the State's 
> Attorney! In Michigan it is a criminal offense. BTW, feel free to give him 
> my phone number and have him give me a call. It is below my signature.
>
> Fraternally yours,
> Marion Gwizdala, President
> National Association of Guide Dog Users (NAGDU)
> National Federation of the Blind
> 813-626-2789
> President at NAGDU.ORG
> HTTP://WWW.NAGDU.ORG
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Chasity Jackson" <chasityvanda at charter.net>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2011 5:46 PM
> Subject: [nagdu] I Talked to the guy in Michigan
>
>
>>I called the guy in Grand Rapids. He called me back. I have a friend who 
>>is an advocate in New York. She has been an advocate for over 40 years. I 
>>connected the two of them. She is advising him on how to legally pursue 
>>this from here. Marion, he would also like to speak with you, and I will 
>>be emailing you his info. He is looking for a lawyer to pursue this. 
>>Thanks.
>> Chasity
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Larry D. Keeler" <lkeeler at comcast.net>
>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2011 4:26 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Restaurant ordered service dog to lobby
>>
>>
>>> At State Convention I met a few.  We are in the beginning stages of 
>>> organizing but most of them appear to be from the Southeast and Grand 
>>> Rapids is on the West.
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "Marion Gwizdala" <blind411 at verizon.net>
>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2011 4:24 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Restaurant ordered service dog to lobby
>>>
>>>
>>>> Larry,
>>>>    Do we have any guide dog users on that side of the Wolverine State?
>>>>
>>>> Marion
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>> From: "Larry D. Keeler" <lkeeler at comcast.net>
>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2011 3:56 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Restaurant ordered service dog to lobby
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Its on the other side of the state from me or I would!
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>> From: "Marion Gwizdala" <blind411 at verizon.net>
>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2011 2:35 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Restaurant ordered service dog to lobby
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>I would like to see a NAGDU member go to this restaurant and file a 
>>>>>>criminal complaint aginst the manager. Violation of Michigan's access 
>>>>>>law is a second degree misdemeanor.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Fraternally yours,
>>>>>> Marion
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>> From: "Dan Weiner" <dcwein at dcwein.cnc.net>
>>>>>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog 
>>>>>> Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2011 10:50 AM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Restaurant ordered service dog to lobby
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I would like to see that restaurant go out of business.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Dan
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
>>>>>>> Behalf
>>>>>>> Of Ginger Kutsch
>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2011 10:42 AM
>>>>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>>>>> Subject: [nagdu] Restaurant ordered service dog to lobby
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Restaurant ordered service dog to lobby
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Frank Eckl goes everywhere with Spruce
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Published : Monday, 07 Nov 2011,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> By Leon Hendrix
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> CASCADE TOWNSHIP, Mich. (WOOD) - Frank Eckl and his family --  
>>>>>>> including his
>>>>>>> service dog -- went to dinner Saturday night at Don Julio's 
>>>>>>> restaurant in
>>>>>>> Cascade Township. But the manager said the dog had to stay in the 
>>>>>>> lobby.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Eckl told 24 Hour News 8 he takes the dog with him wherever he goes. 
>>>>>>> He uses
>>>>>>> the dog because of a disability he has that causes occasional 
>>>>>>> seizures. When
>>>>>>> he's alone, it's his service dog Spruce that calls for help and 
>>>>>>> helps him
>>>>>>> get up if he's fallen to the ground.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> He said he's never had a problem bringing Spruce with him since the 
>>>>>>> law
>>>>>>> allows it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But the manager at Don Julio's wouldn't allow the dog in the dining 
>>>>>>> area.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "She [the manager] said we were more than welcome to stay, but 
>>>>>>> patrons in
>>>>>>> the restaurant and the manager didn't want dog hair in the 
>>>>>>> restaurant," he
>>>>>>> said. "I was shocked that we were asked to have the dog leave and we 
>>>>>>> could
>>>>>>> stay."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The manager-on-duty admitted they insisted the dog stay in the 
>>>>>>> entrance way
>>>>>>> to the restaurant, and that she would make the same request it 
>>>>>>> again. She
>>>>>>> said patrons at the restaurant complained about the dog and that 
>>>>>>> some opted
>>>>>>> to leave because of sanitation concerns.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "I asked for him to bring the dog out to the main entrance to the 
>>>>>>> lobby,"
>>>>>>> the manager said. She refused to provide her name to 24 Hour News 8. 
>>>>>>> "I
>>>>>>> didn't ask for him to take his dog back home, to take his dog to the 
>>>>>>> car or
>>>>>>> leave him outside in the middle of the parking lot at all."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Eckl and his family simply left the restaurant and went to the IHOP
>>>>>>> restaurant next door, where they were welcomed with Spruce.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Others that use service dogs have been asked to comply by the same 
>>>>>>> rules
>>>>>>> without complaint, the manager at Don Julio's said.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "I can't keep every customer happy," she said, adding that she was 
>>>>>>> aware
>>>>>>> that Spruce was a service dog but didn't realize it was Eckl who 
>>>>>>> used him.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "I knew it was not for him. He didn't tell me the service dog was 
>>>>>>> for him...
>>>>>>> He wasn't clear to me either."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Jocelyn Dettloff, a representative for the Disability Advocates of 
>>>>>>> Kent
>>>>>>> County, said the violation is more serious than unhappy customers.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "That's insane!" Dettloff said. "I mean, who would say that you have 
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> leave your cane or your mobility device at the door. People who rely 
>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>> service animals -- it's the exact same thing."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But Dettloff says there is a problem with the laws prohibiting
>>>>>>> discrimination against the disabled because they are rarely 
>>>>>>> enforced. The
>>>>>>> most someone like Eckl can do, she said, is file a complaint that 
>>>>>>> could take
>>>>>>> more than a year to get attention. Even then, she said, there is no
>>>>>>> punishment for establishments that break the law.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Eckl could file a civil lawsuit as well, Dettloff said, but he would 
>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>> likely be awarded damages.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "The law definitely needs some sort of stricter enforcement," she 
>>>>>>> said.
>>>>>>> "There is no strict enforcement like the health department or the 
>>>>>>> fire
>>>>>>> department."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Eckl says he isn't seeking monetary damages and doesn't really want 
>>>>>>> anything
>>>>>>> from Don Julio's, other than an apology and training for its staff.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "I'm not out for malice here," he said, adding that he wouldn't go 
>>>>>>> back to
>>>>>>> the establishment again.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The manager at Don Julio's said she stands by her actions and would 
>>>>>>> do the
>>>>>>> same thing again if Eckl returned.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "I have to," she said. "I can't have any kind of animal be around 
>>>>>>> food. It's
>>>>>>> kinda hard having most of my customers leave out on me because of 
>>>>>>> one
>>>>>>> customer."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Eckl wrote a letter about his experience and sent it to area media 
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> groups that advocate for the disabled:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> To whom it may concern,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This past Saturday, November 4th, 2011, at 6pm, my family and I 
>>>>>>> wanted to
>>>>>>> eat at you establishment. This included my wife Karen, and my 
>>>>>>> daughter Lydia
>>>>>>> (who happens to have Special Needs.) My Service Dog, Spruce, was 
>>>>>>> with me.
>>>>>>> Spruce was wearing her jacket that displays "SERVICE DOG." I have 
>>>>>>> her for
>>>>>>> medical needs and she regularly assists me in my daily life.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We entered your restaurant, were seated in the back where no one 
>>>>>>> else was
>>>>>>> seated. The gentleman that seated us even turned on lights for us. 
>>>>>>> We were
>>>>>>> given menus and served water. It was at this time that a waitress 
>>>>>>> addressed
>>>>>>> us and stated: "You can stay but your dog must wait outside." I 
>>>>>>> explained
>>>>>>> the public law which states that I can have my Service Dog with me. 
>>>>>>> We were
>>>>>>> then told that the manager had complaints about "dog hair" and that 
>>>>>>> a dog
>>>>>>> was disruptive to the other patrons. When I said that Spruce stays 
>>>>>>> and helps
>>>>>>> me, we were asked to take Spruce out. We then left. Upon calling
>>>>>>> authorities, the police stated this was a "civil matter" and to seek
>>>>>>> council.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I am an Honorably Discharged (10 yr) USAF veteran, who served his 
>>>>>>> country in
>>>>>>> both war and peace-time. It's hard to belief that discrimination 
>>>>>>> such as
>>>>>>> this exists today. My disability is due to of my service. The real 
>>>>>>> issue is
>>>>>>> no one with a disability should be told they can't have their 
>>>>>>> assistance
>>>>>>> with them and then have to leave an establishment.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I find myself with the opportunity to help educate your organization 
>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> the Law and others by making this incident public. I choose not to 
>>>>>>> seek
>>>>>>> council, but rather inform you and other organizations of this 
>>>>>>> incident in
>>>>>>> hopes that this type of discrimination will not take place again.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> From the ADA: Service animals are animals that are individually 
>>>>>>> trained to
>>>>>>> perform tasks for people with disabilities such as guiding people 
>>>>>>> who are
>>>>>>> blind, alerting people who are deaf, pulling wheelchairs, alerting 
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> protecting a person who is having a seizure, or performing "other" 
>>>>>>> special
>>>>>>> tasks. Service animals are working animals, not pets.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Under the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA), businesses and
>>>>>>> organizations that serve the public must allow people with 
>>>>>>> disabilities to
>>>>>>> bring their service animals into all areas of the facility where 
>>>>>>> customers
>>>>>>> are normally allowed to go. This federal law applies to all 
>>>>>>> businesses open
>>>>>>> to the public, including restaurants, hotels, taxis and shuttles, 
>>>>>>> grocery
>>>>>>> and department stores, hospitals and medical offices, theaters, 
>>>>>>> health
>>>>>>> clubs, parks, and zoos.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Michigan Statutes, 1953, Section 750.502c (last amended in 1984 by 
>>>>>>> Public
>>>>>>> Act 110)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Michigan statutory law guarantees a blind person the legal right to 
>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>> accompanied by a dog guide in harness in all public accommodations 
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> educational institutions and on all public conveyances. The dog 
>>>>>>> guide user
>>>>>>> can be required to produce identification, such as the I.D. card 
>>>>>>> furnished
>>>>>>> by the dog guide school from which the dog was obtained.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Public accommodations include trains, buses, taxis, elevators, 
>>>>>>> boats, and
>>>>>>> other common carriers...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Violation: Any person who interferes with the above enumerated 
>>>>>>> rights is
>>>>>>> guilty of a misdemeanor and therefore punishable under Michigan 
>>>>>>> law...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In acknowledgement of this letter, I ask only for a formal apology 
>>>>>>> and for
>>>>>>> you to conduct training with your staff on the Laws concerning 
>>>>>>> customers
>>>>>>> with Service Dogs. This is the only compensation I wish to ask of 
>>>>>>> you. This
>>>>>>> incident was embarrassing and offensive. I would hope that anyone 
>>>>>>> with a
>>>>>>> disability who chooses to dine at Don Julio's would never encounter 
>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>> intolerance.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Frank J. Eckl
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Comment Privately
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Comment to 24 Hour News 8
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>> dog-to-lobby
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>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
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>>>>>> nagdu:
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nagdu mailing list
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