[nagdu] Restaurant ordered service dog to lobby
Larry D. Keeler
lkeeler at comcast.net
Wed Nov 9 16:58:04 UTC 2011
Marion, I was one of those! When I was invited to join by are chapter, I
came with Holly. I figured that if they didn't like the idea, I'd find out
in a hurry! Now that I know about NAGDU and have met a few guide dog users
at Convention, I am pleased! That's why I'm working on getting a division
going here in Michigan.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Marion Gwizdala" <blind411 at verizon.net>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2011 8:37 AM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Restaurant ordered service dog to lobby
> Larry,
> One reason you may not know of many guide dog users friendly to the NFB
> is because there are those who would like guide dog users to believe that
> the NFB is anti guide dog. I am of the opinion that, once guide dog users
> realize this is a myth, we will see a growth in our ranks. many are a part
> of the other organization even though they do not agree with its
> philosophy or approach simply because they have been convinced of this
> myth. They would rather be a part of a consumer's group with which they
> have some philosophical disagreements than none at all. I believe that,
> once guide dog users see that the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> is the leading force in the affairs of guide dog users and is taking a
> proactive approach to enhancing their lives, they will realize they have
> been betrayed by these lies and come stand on the barricades with us!
>
> Fraternally yours,
> Marion Gwizdala
>
>
> this issue
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Larry D. Keeler" <lkeeler at comcast.net>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2011 8:42 PM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Restaurant ordered service dog to lobby
>
>
>> Marion, one reason I don't know of many Grand Rapids dog users is because
>> NFB is sort of weak in that area. They have the state ACB President
>> there and he is pretty strong over there! I saw no dog users in
>> Kalamazoo or for that matter from the whole west coast! They are
>> probably there though!
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Marion Gwizdala" <blind411 at verizon.net>
>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2011 7:07 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Restaurant ordered service dog to lobby
>>
>>
>>> Sheila, This is why we have NAGDU and the NAGDU Information & advocacy
>>> Hotline. It is my hope we can find a NAGDU person in the Grand Rapids
>>> area willing to take this on and press it to the end!
>>>
>>> Fraternally yours,
>>> Marion
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Sheila Leigland" <sleigland at bresnan.net>
>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2011 5:02 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Restaurant ordered service dog to lobby
>>>
>>>
>>>> Marion it is so sad and wrong that this stuff still goes on in this
>>>> country The manager or whatever she is definetely knows the law and
>>>> chooses to ignore it. I'm glad that I didnn't realize how much the laws
>>>> are ignored when I got my first dog. I thought that the law was the law
>>>> and I believed it would be upheld. I hope that if I had known reality
>>>> that I still would have wanted a guide dog and would have known how to
>>>> stand up for myself as a blind person.
>>>>
>>>> Sheila Leigland
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Marion Gwizdala <blind411 at verizon.net>
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2011 2:26 PM
>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Restaurant ordered service dog to lobby
>>>>
>>>> Naw! That would be too good a place for them! (grin) I prefer a 10 X 10
>>>> cell
>>>> with a 350-pound biker named Bubba whose brother is blind and uses a
>>>> guide
>>>> dog! (smile) Now, that's justice!
>>>>
>>>> Marion
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Marion
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Larry D. Keeler" <lkeeler at comcast.net>
>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2011 3:57 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Restaurant ordered service dog to lobby
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> And that could be in a dog shelter with a bunch of shedding fur!
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Marion Gwizdala" <blind411 at verizon.net>
>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2011 2:37 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Restaurant ordered service dog to lobby
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Julie,
>>>>>> Although a cash fine would be good, incarceration would be even
>>>>>> sweeter in this case!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Marion
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: "Julie J." <julielj at neb.rr.com>
>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2011 11:46 AM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Restaurant ordered service dog to lobby
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What I think would work even better is rounding up every
>>>>>>> service/guide
>>>>>>> dog user in a 100 mile radius and going together to eat there. Of
>>>>>>> course having along a news reporter makes the event that much more
>>>>>>> memorable.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And I agree there need to be cash fines for this sort of behavior.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Julie
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 11/8/2011 10:27 AM, Brenda wrote:
>>>>>>>> This is one of those times when I wonder if picketing and
>>>>>>>> encouraging
>>>>>>>> the public to boycott would work. Maybe the local citizens could
>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>> encouraged to boycott this establishmebnt every Friday and tell the
>>>>>>>> manager WHY.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 11/8/2011 11:01 AM, Buddy Brannan wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Hi Dan,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> IMO, the time for being nice and educating is long past. It's time
>>>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>>>> start to insist that some teeth be put into the laws that protect
>>>>>>>>> our
>>>>>>>>> rights. Unfortunately, the only thing some people understand
>>>>>>>>> (including, it would appear, this manager) is something that hits
>>>>>>>>> them
>>>>>>>>> in the pocketbook. It's pretty clear to me that she even knows
>>>>>>>>> she's
>>>>>>>>> in the wrong and doesn't care, as she wouldn't give her name even
>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> back up her stance.
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
>>>>>>>>> Phone: (814) 860-3194 or 888-75-BUDDY
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Nov 8, 2011, at 10:50 AM, Dan Weiner wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I would like to see that restaurant go out of business.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Dan
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>>>>>>>> On
>>>>>>>>>> Behalf
>>>>>>>>>> Of Ginger Kutsch
>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2011 10:42 AM
>>>>>>>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
>>>>>>>>>> Users
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [nagdu] Restaurant ordered service dog to lobby
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Restaurant ordered service dog to lobby
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Frank Eckl goes everywhere with Spruce
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Published : Monday, 07 Nov 2011,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> By Leon Hendrix
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> CASCADE TOWNSHIP, Mich. (WOOD) - Frank Eckl and his family --
>>>>>>>>>> including his
>>>>>>>>>> service dog -- went to dinner Saturday night at Don Julio's
>>>>>>>>>> restaurant in
>>>>>>>>>> Cascade Township. But the manager said the dog had to stay in the
>>>>>>>>>> lobby.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Eckl told 24 Hour News 8 he takes the dog with him wherever he
>>>>>>>>>> goes.
>>>>>>>>>> He uses
>>>>>>>>>> the dog because of a disability he has that causes occasional
>>>>>>>>>> seizures. When
>>>>>>>>>> he's alone, it's his service dog Spruce that calls for help and
>>>>>>>>>> helps
>>>>>>>>>> him
>>>>>>>>>> get up if he's fallen to the ground.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> He said he's never had a problem bringing Spruce with him since
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> law
>>>>>>>>>> allows it.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> But the manager at Don Julio's wouldn't allow the dog in the
>>>>>>>>>> dining
>>>>>>>>>> area.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> "She [the manager] said we were more than welcome to stay, but
>>>>>>>>>> patrons in
>>>>>>>>>> the restaurant and the manager didn't want dog hair in the
>>>>>>>>>> restaurant," he
>>>>>>>>>> said. "I was shocked that we were asked to have the dog leave and
>>>>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>>>>> could
>>>>>>>>>> stay."
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The manager-on-duty admitted they insisted the dog stay in the
>>>>>>>>>> entrance way
>>>>>>>>>> to the restaurant, and that she would make the same request it
>>>>>>>>>> again
>>>>>>>>>> She
>>>>>>>>>> said patrons at the restaurant complained about the dog and that
>>>>>>>>>> some
>>>>>>>>>> opted
>>>>>>>>>> to leave because of sanitation concerns.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> "I asked for him to bring the dog out to the main entrance to the
>>>>>>>>>> lobby,"
>>>>>>>>>> the manager said. She refused to provide her name to 24 Hour News
>>>>>>>>>> 8.
>>>>>>>>>> "I
>>>>>>>>>> didn't ask for him to take his dog back home, to take his dog to
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> car or
>>>>>>>>>> leave him outside in the middle of the parking lot at all."
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Eckl and his family simply left the restaurant and went to the
>>>>>>>>>> IHOP
>>>>>>>>>> restaurant next door, where they were welcomed with Spruce.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Others that use service dogs have been asked to comply by the
>>>>>>>>>> same
>>>>>>>>>> rules
>>>>>>>>>> without complaint, the manager at Don Julio's said.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> "I can't keep every customer happy," she said, adding that she
>>>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>>>> aware
>>>>>>>>>> that Spruce was a service dog but didn't realize it was Eckl who
>>>>>>>>>> used
>>>>>>>>>> him.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> "I knew it was not for him. He didn't tell me the service dog was
>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>> him...
>>>>>>>>>> He wasn't clear to me either."
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Jocelyn Dettloff, a representative for the Disability Advocates
>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>> Kent
>>>>>>>>>> County, said the violation is more serious than unhappy
>>>>>>>>>> customers.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> "That's insane!" Dettloff said. "I mean, who would say that you
>>>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>> leave your cane or your mobility device at the door. People who
>>>>>>>>>> rely
>>>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>>> service animals -- it's the exact same thing."
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> But Dettloff says there is a problem with the laws prohibiting
>>>>>>>>>> discrimination against the disabled because they are rarely
>>>>>>>>>> enforced
>>>>>>>>>> The
>>>>>>>>>> most someone like Eckl can do, she said, is file a complaint that
>>>>>>>>>> could take
>>>>>>>>>> more than a year to get attention. Even then, she said, there is
>>>>>>>>>> no
>>>>>>>>>> punishment for establishments that break the law.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Eckl could file a civil lawsuit as well, Dettloff said, but he
>>>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>>>> likely be awarded damages.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> "The law definitely needs some sort of stricter enforcement," she
>>>>>>>>>> said.
>>>>>>>>>> "There is no strict enforcement like the health department or the
>>>>>>>>>> fire
>>>>>>>>>> department."
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Eckl says he isn't seeking monetary damages and doesn't really
>>>>>>>>>> want
>>>>>>>>>> anything
>>>>>>>>>> from Don Julio's, other than an apology and training for its
>>>>>>>>>> staff.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> "I'm not out for malice here," he said, adding that he wouldn't
>>>>>>>>>> go
>>>>>>>>>> back to
>>>>>>>>>> the establishment again.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The manager at Don Julio's said she stands by her actions and
>>>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>>>> do the
>>>>>>>>>> same thing again if Eckl returned.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> "I have to," she said. "I can't have any kind of animal be around
>>>>>>>>>> food. It's
>>>>>>>>>> kinda hard having most of my customers leave out on me because of
>>>>>>>>>> one
>>>>>>>>>> customer."
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Eckl wrote a letter about his experience and sent it to area
>>>>>>>>>> media
>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>> groups that advocate for the disabled:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> To whom it may concern,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> This past Saturday, November 4th, 2011, at 6pm, my family and I
>>>>>>>>>> wanted to
>>>>>>>>>> eat at you establishment. This included my wife Karen, and my
>>>>>>>>>> daughter Lydia
>>>>>>>>>> (who happens to have Special Needs.) My Service Dog, Spruce, was
>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>> me.
>>>>>>>>>> Spruce was wearing her jacket that displays "SERVICE DOG." I have
>>>>>>>>>> her
>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>> medical needs and she regularly assists me in my daily life.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> We entered your restaurant, were seated in the back where no one
>>>>>>>>>> else
>>>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>>>> seated. The gentleman that seated us even turned on lights for
>>>>>>>>>> us. We
>>>>>>>>>> were
>>>>>>>>>> given menus and served water. It was at this time that a waitress
>>>>>>>>>> addressed
>>>>>>>>>> us and stated: "You can stay but your dog must wait outside." I
>>>>>>>>>> explained
>>>>>>>>>> the public law which states that I can have my Service Dog with
>>>>>>>>>> me.
>>>>>>>>>> We were
>>>>>>>>>> then told that the manager had complaints about "dog hair" and
>>>>>>>>>> that a
>>>>>>>>>> dog
>>>>>>>>>> was disruptive to the other patrons. When I said that Spruce
>>>>>>>>>> stays
>>>>>>>>>> and helps
>>>>>>>>>> me, we were asked to take Spruce out. We then left. Upon calling
>>>>>>>>>> authorities, the police stated this was a "civil matter" and to
>>>>>>>>>> seek
>>>>>>>>>> council.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I am an Honorably Discharged (10 yr) USAF veteran, who served his
>>>>>>>>>> country in
>>>>>>>>>> both war and peace-time. It's hard to belief that discrimination
>>>>>>>>>> such
>>>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>>>> this exists today. My disability is due to of my service. The
>>>>>>>>>> real
>>>>>>>>>> issue is
>>>>>>>>>> no one with a disability should be told they can't have their
>>>>>>>>>> assistance
>>>>>>>>>> with them and then have to leave an establishment.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I find myself with the opportunity to help educate your
>>>>>>>>>> organization
>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> the Law and others by making this incident public. I choose not
>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>> seek
>>>>>>>>>> council, but rather inform you and other organizations of this
>>>>>>>>>> incident in
>>>>>>>>>> hopes that this type of discrimination will not take place again.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> From the ADA: Service animals are animals that are individually
>>>>>>>>>> trained to
>>>>>>>>>> perform tasks for people with disabilities such as guiding people
>>>>>>>>>> who
>>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>>> blind, alerting people who are deaf, pulling wheelchairs,
>>>>>>>>>> alerting
>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>> protecting a person who is having a seizure, or performing
>>>>>>>>>> "other"
>>>>>>>>>> special
>>>>>>>>>> tasks. Service animals are working animals, not pets.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Under the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA), businesses and
>>>>>>>>>> organizations that serve the public must allow people with
>>>>>>>>>> disabilities to
>>>>>>>>>> bring their service animals into all areas of the facility where
>>>>>>>>>> customers
>>>>>>>>>> are normally allowed to go. This federal law applies to all
>>>>>>>>>> businesses open
>>>>>>>>>> to the public, including restaurants, hotels, taxis and shuttles,
>>>>>>>>>> grocery
>>>>>>>>>> and department stores, hospitals and medical offices, theaters,
>>>>>>>>>> health
>>>>>>>>>> clubs, parks, and zoos.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Michigan Statutes, 1953, Section 750.502c (last amended in 1984
>>>>>>>>>> by
>>>>>>>>>> Public
>>>>>>>>>> Act 110)
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Michigan statutory law guarantees a blind person the legal right
>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>>> accompanied by a dog guide in harness in all public
>>>>>>>>>> accommodations
>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>> educational institutions and on all public conveyances. The dog
>>>>>>>>>> guide
>>>>>>>>>> user
>>>>>>>>>> can be required to produce identification, such as the I.D. card
>>>>>>>>>> furnished
>>>>>>>>>> by the dog guide school from which the dog was obtained.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Public accommodations include trains, buses, taxis, elevators,
>>>>>>>>>> boats,
>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>> other common carriers...
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Violation: Any person who interferes with the above enumerated
>>>>>>>>>> rights
>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>> guilty of a misdemeanor and therefore punishable under Michigan
>>>>>>>>>> law...
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> In acknowledgement of this letter, I ask only for a formal
>>>>>>>>>> apology
>>>>>>>>>> and for
>>>>>>>>>> you to conduct training with your staff on the Laws concerning
>>>>>>>>>> customers
>>>>>>>>>> with Service Dogs. This is the only compensation I wish to ask of
>>>>>>>>>> you. This
>>>>>>>>>> incident was embarrassing and offensive. I would hope that anyone
>>>>>>>>>> with a
>>>>>>>>>> disability who chooses to dine at Don Julio's would never
>>>>>>>>>> encounter
>>>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>>>> intolerance.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Frank J. Eckl
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
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