[nagdu] a blind consumer's Right to Choose rehab training (federal regs)
Tami Kinney
tamara.8024 at comcast.net
Thu Nov 10 20:43:36 UTC 2011
Lorraine,
I am definitely keeping this message in my files forever! /smile/
May I contact you privately to discuss some thoughts I've ben having
along those lines here in my state. I'm trying to cook up[ a plan of
some sort to actually do something useful instead of just complaining
about it... Although by now, complaining is a well-developed skill when
it comes to VR here. Well, doen right, it actually can be a way to
gather information adnh to encourage others to share storeis and then to
get others to share stories and then turn towards the more positive
discussions concerning ideas about solutions or workarounds... It's not
much, but it's a start. Access to braille materials is something a
couple (maybe a few by now) are working on, along with a way to share
learning across our mostly rual state.
Thanks.
Tami
On 11/10/2011 07:40 AM, Rovig, Lorraine wrote:
> Dear NAGDU Members,
> I'm sighted and I've met, talked with, watched, helped, and learned from, not a handful, but several thousands of blind folks since becoming an NFB member in 1975. I can and do affirm that very few states have training centers that graduate students with all-around skills equal to those possessed by the graduates of the three NFB training centers. The state programs that I've noticed do the best training among the states are, guess what, also the programs that use NFB training techniques. Some states do good to okay training in some skills; many states and private agencies have training programs that I classify as "poor to dismal" and most blind persons in those states with substandard training who show good skills most often learned from personal trial and error plus learning from other blind persons. (Example: Every time our annual convention is in a hotel with an escalator, I see blind persons teaching blind persons how to use it.) (Example: Why do we need Hadl
ey to teach folks Braille--which we certainly do? Why isn't the state agency teaching Braille and doing a good job at it?) In addition, the attitude toward their blindness possessed by NFB center graduates is a great help to them in getting ahead. Remember what Dr. Jernigan said about baking bread?
> If the training in blindness skills is poor to dismal in your agency, read what Dick Davis sent you in his email below. And if the listserv does not permit attachments; if you need a "prettier" copy to hand to authority figures, email Dick Davis to email it to you. His email address is ddavis at blindinc.org.
> And may I remind folks that this regulation is in place because of the hard work of the members of the National Federation of the Blind? It has already helped many blind Americans (and some international guests) to get the training they needed. What do they teach? Here is a link to the 3 NFB centers: http://www.nfb.org/nfb/training_centers.asp?SnID=859795795.
> If you want to go to an NFB training center, start by reading the regs, then talk with your state's NFB affiliate president to get your backup in place and your strategy. Dr. Jernigan often said, "The way to eat an elephant is one bite at a time."
>
> Cordially,
> Lorraine Rovig
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dick Davis [mailto:ddavis at blindinc.org]
> Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2011 9:54 AM
> To: Rovig, Lorraine
> Subject: RE: [nagdu] FW: Why good O&M training is so important [Oregon notes]
>
> Lorraine,
> Interesting discussion. Why don't you post the attached on the NAGDU
> list? I have also included it below. It is a policy directive, which
> tells state agencies how to interpret and implement the Rehab Act and
> Regulations. It may help those people who are trying to go to NFB
> centers, but are not allowed to. One of the most interesting things about
> it is the laundry list of all the things state agencies are required to
> provide to facilitate informed choice. But do they?
> Dick Davis
>
> UNITED STATES DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION
> OFFICE OF SPECIAL EDUCATION AND
> REHABILITATIVE SERVICES
> REHABILITATION SERVICES ADMINISTRATION
> WASHINGTON, DC 20202
>
> POLICY
> DIRECTIVE
>
> RSA-PD-01-03
> DATE:
> January 17, 2001
>
> ADDRESSEES: STATE VOCATIONAL REHABILITATION AGENCIES (GENERAL)
> STATE VOCATIONAL REHABILITATION AGENCIES (BLIND)
> STATE REHABILITATION COUNCILS
> CLIENT ASSISTANCE PROGRAMS
> REGIONAL REHABILITATION CONTINUING EDUCATION PROGRAMS
> AMERICAN INDIAN VOCATIONAL REHABILITATION SERVICES PROJECTS
> RSA SENIOR MANAGEMENT TEAM
>
> SUBJECT: Implementation of Informed Choice
>
> BACKGROUND: The Rehabilitation Act of 1973, as amended (the Act),
> makes it clear in its policy statement that all programs, projects and
> activities funded under the Act must be "carried out in a manner
> consistent with the principles of respect for individual dignity, personal
> responsibility, self-determination, and pursuit of meaningful careers,
> based on informed choice, of individuals with disabilities" (section
> 2(c)(1) of the Act). The Rehabilitation Act Amendments of 1992 introduced
> the principle of "informed choice" into the statute and provided
> individuals with disabilities expanded opportunities for increased
> involvement in the direction of their vocational rehabilitation (VR)
> programming. The Rehabilitation Act Amendments of 1998 (the 1998
> Amendments) strengthened the previous requirements related to informed
> choice and introduced additional requirements that expanded opportunities
> for increased participation of individuals with disabilities in developing
> and implementing their VR programs.
>
> This policy is reinforced in section 100(a)(3)(C) of the Act which states
> that the State VR program must be carried out in a manner consistent with
> the following principle: "Individuals who are applicants for such
> programs or eligible to participate in such programs must be active and
> full partners in the vocational rehabilitation process, making meaningful
> and informed choices-- (i) during assessments for determining eligibility
> and vocational rehabilitation needs; and (ii) in the selection of
> employment outcomes for individuals, services needed to achieve the
> outcomes, entities providing such services, and the methods used to secure
> such services."
>
> The purpose of this Policy Directive (PD) is to describe how the VR
> program can work with applicants and eligible individuals to ensure their
> full participation, based on informed choice, throughout the
> rehabilitation process. Since the implementation of informed choice makes
> demands on both the individual and the VR program, this PD also discusses
> the roles of the individual, the VR counselor, and the State VR agency in
> carrying out their responsibilities.
>
> Legal Requirements Related to Informed Choice
>
> The 1998 Amendments consolidated all of the essential statutory
> requirements related to informed choice in a new stand-alone section -
> section 102(d). This section of the Act requires each VR agency to
> develop and implement written policies and procedures that enable each
> applicant or eligible individual to exercise informed choice throughout
> the entire rehabilitation process. These policies and procedures must be
> developed in consultation with the State Rehabilitation Council, if the
> agency has a Council, and must require the State VR agency to:
>
> . inform each applicant and individual eligible for VR services,
> through appropriate modes of communication, about the opportunities to
> exercise informed choice throughout the VR process, including the
> availability of support services for individuals who require assistance in
> exercising informed choice;
>
> . assist applicants and eligible individuals in exercising informed
> choice in making decisions related to the provision of assessment
> services;
>
> . provide or assist eligible individuals in acquiring information
> that enables them to exercise informed choice in the development of their
> individualized plans for employment (IPE) with respect to the selection of
> the employment outcome, VR services and service providers, the employment
> setting and the settings in which the services will be provided, and
> methods for procuring services;
>
> . develop and implement flexible procurement policies and methods
> that facilitate the provision of services and afford eligible individuals
> meaningful choices among procurement methods; and
>
> . ensure that the availability and scope of informed choice is
> consistent with the obligations of the VR agency.
>
> The Act requires the State VR agency to ensure that applicants and
> eligible individuals, or their representatives, are provided information
> and support services to assist them in exercising informed choice
> throughout the VR process (section 101(a)(19) of the Act). Section
> 103(a)(2) of the Act states that counseling and guidance services include
> information and support services to assist an individual in exercising
> informed choice, reinforcing the facilitative and supportive role of the
> VR counselor in assisting individuals with disabilities to exercise
> informed choice.
>
> The implementing regulations at 34 CFR 361.52(c) specify the minimum
> information about services and service providers that must be provided by
> the State VR agency to applicants and eligible individuals during the
> process of developing the IPE. The information must include: the cost,
> accessibility, and duration of services; the types of services; the degree
> to which service settings are integrated; the qualifications of service
> providers; and, to the extent available, information about consumer
> satisfaction with those services. The regulations also suggest various
> methods and sources for acquiring information about services and
> providers.
>
> The opportunity for the individual to exercise informed choice requires
> special emphasis during the development of the IPE. Section 102(b)(1)(A)
> of the Act provides the individual with a choice of options for developing
> the IPE. These include: (1) the individual developing all or part of the
> IPE; or (2) the individual using technical assistance in developing all or
> part of the IPE, including the assistance of the VR counselor employed by
> the State VR agency. Section 102(b)(2)(B) of the Act requires that the
> IPE "be developed and implemented in a manner that affords eligible
> individuals the opportunity to exercise informed choice in selecting an
> employment outcome, VR services, service providers, and methods for
> procuring services, consistent with subsection (d)."
>
> The 1998 amendments link the individual's employment outcome with the
> informed choice of the individual. Section 102(b)(3)(A) of the Act
> specifies the description of the individual's chosen employment outcome as
> a "mandatory component" of the IPE and stipulates that the employment
> outcome must be chosen by the individual and must be consistent with the
> strengths, resources, priorities, concerns, abilities, capabilities,
> interests, and informed choice of the individual. The respective
> responsibilities of the individual and the State VR agency in working
> toward the achievement of the employment outcome must be described in the
> IPE (Section 102(b)(3)(E)(i) and (ii) of the Act).
>
> The link between the employment outcome and informed choice is further
> reinforced by the description of VR services in section 103(a) of the Act
> as "any services described in an individualized plan for employment
> necessary to assist an individual with a disability in preparing for,
> securing, retaining, or regaining an employment outcome that is consistent
> with the strengths, resources, priorities, concerns, abilities,
> capabilities, interests, and informed choice of the individual." This is
> a change from the previous description of VR services as "any goods or
> services necessary to render an individual with a disability employable."
> These changes make it clear that the cost, duration, or extent of
> vocational rehabilitation services that an eligible individual may need to
> achieve a particular employment goal should not be considered in
> identifying the goal. Instead, the employment outcome must be based only
> on what is consistent with the strengths, resources, priorities, concerns,
> abilities, capabilities, interests, and informed choice of the individual.
>
> Implementation of Informed Choice
>
> Informed choice is a decision-making process that occurs throughout the
> individual's experience in the VR program. Implementation of informed
> choice should ensure that the individual, or if appropriate, the
> individual, through his or her representative:
>
> . makes decisions related to the assessment process and to selection
> of the employment outcome and the settings in which employment occurs,
> vocational rehabilitation services, service providers, the settings for
> service provision, and the methods for procuring services;
>
> . has a range of options from which to make these decisions or, to
> the extent possible, the opportunity to create new options that will meet
> the individual's specific rehabilitation needs;
>
> . has access to sufficient information about the consequences of
> various options;
>
> . has skills for evaluating the information and for making
> decisions, or, to the extent possible, the opportunity to develop such
> skills or support and assistance in carrying out these functions;
>
> . makes decisions in ways that reflect the individual's strengths,
> resources, priorities, concerns, abilities, capabilities, and interests;
> and
>
> . takes personal responsibility, to the extent possible, for
> implementing the chosen options.
>
> While the Act emphasizes the importance of the individual's ability to
> exercise informed choice throughout the VR process, section 102(d)(5) of
> the Act requires the State VR agencies to ensure that the availability and
> scope of informed choice is consistent with the VR agencies'
> responsibilities for the administration of the VR program. Parameters
> that affect the exercise of informed choice are imposed by: statutory and
> regulatory requirements, including sections 101(a)(6)(C) (accessible
> facilities), 101(a)(8)(A) (comparable services and benefits) and
> 101(a)(9)(B) (provision of services) of the Act, 34 CFR 361.50 (written
> policies regarding provision of services) and 361.54 (participation in the
> cost of services) of the implementing regulations, and 34 CFR 80.36(a)
> (procurement) of the Education Department General Administrative
> Regulations; Federal and State VR agency policies; and factors specific to
> each individual.
>
> Roles and Responsibilities
>
> Effective implementation of informed choice depends on efforts of the
> individual and, as appropriate, people important in the individual's life,
> working jointly with the VR counselor. The efforts of all of these
> individuals should be supported by the policies, procedures, and practices
> of the State VR agency.
>
> The Applicant and/or Eligible Individual: The Conference Report for HR
> 1385, Workforce Investment Act of 1998, refers to the "need to provide
> greater choice and involvement of vocational rehabilitation clients in
> developing their service plans." (House Report 105-659, p. 355). To
> accomplish this, the individual must make decisions about the options for
> developing the IPE, the extent of technical assistance needed for
> exercising the various options, and the extent to which family members and
> others are to be involved in the IPE planning process.
>
> Exercising informed choice and taking more responsibility in the VR
> process makes demands on individuals with disabilities, and may also make
> demands on other people in their lives. To be fully engaged in the VR
> process, including development of the IPE, the individual must gather and
> use information to the extent possible, participate in planning and
> problem solving, make and implement decisions, and seek or identify needed
> resources. The individual engages in these activities to make decisions
> about the selection of the employment outcome, VR services, service
> providers, service and employment settings, and methods for procuring
> services. Once the IPE has been signed both by the individual and the VR
> counselor employed by the State VR agency, the individual assumes the
> responsibilities identified in the IPE for implementing the decisions and
> achieving the employment outcome.
>
> The VR Counselor: The Conference Report for HR 1385, Workforce Investment
> Act of 1998, established the expectations that changes in the informed
> choice and IPE provisions will "fundamentally change the role of the
> client-counselor relationship, and that in many cases counselors will
> serve more as facilitators of plan development." (House Report 105-659,
> p. 355). The VR counselor facilitates the process with knowledge of
> rehabilitation and the VR process, an understanding of informed choice,
> information regarding rehabilitation resources and current labor market
> trends, and the experience of assisting other individuals through the VR
> process.
>
> It is generally the responsibility of the VR counselor to inform the
> individual about available options for developing the IPE and for
> exercising informed choice and to assure that the individual understands
> the options. The counselor assists the individual during the assessment
> process to discover the individual's strengths, abilities, capabilities,
> and interests. If appropriate, the counselor encourages the participation
> of family members and others in the VR process.
>
> The counselor also assists the individual in exercising informed choice,
> informs the individual of services that support the individual in
> exercising informed choice, and helps the individual link with any
> necessary support services. The counselor facilitates the development of
> the individual's ability to gather information and supports the individual
> in making decisions to the best of the individual's ability.
>
> The counselor works with the individual to build relationships and to
> align resources that will enable the individual to exercise informed
> choice and to work toward the employment outcome.
>
> The State VR Agency: The role of the State VR agency is to administer the
> VR program in a manner that supports the joint efforts of the individual
> and the VR counselor. Agencies can provide such support by implementing
> policies and procedures that provide the maximum opportunity for
> individuals to exercise informed choice, for the VR counselor to support
> individuals in that effort, and for the development of employment and
> service options that meet a wide range of individual needs. Commitment to
> informed choice by the leadership of the agency is critical to these
> efforts.
>
> State VR agencies are responsible for facilitating the development of
> information resources, tools, and support services needed by individuals
> and counselors to fully implement informed choice. Agencies need to
> provide the information in accessible formats or modes of communication
> that individuals can understand. The VR agency also has a responsibility
> to develop or make available a variety of resources to assist individuals
> in planning, problem solving, and building decision-making skills.
>
> Working with State procurement staff and other relevant agencies, the VR
> agency should seek maximum flexibility in procurement procedures for both
> the VR program and its participants. The VR agency should assure that its
> policies and procedures support an individual's ability to exercise
> informed choice so that the agency's policies and procedures do not result
> in the pre-selection of employment outcomes, services, and service
> providers for VR participants.
>
> Beyond fulfilling program requirements, the State VR agency can use its
> resources and influence to promote and improve the implementation of
> informed choice. The capacity for resource development can be used to
> increase the employment and training options that are available for
> participants and to support the development of service providers willing
> to negotiate with VR participants about individualized services. Providing
> training about implementation of informed choice to VR counselors and
> other service providers who interact with participants helps to assure
> consistent practices and to disseminate information about innovations. The
> agency can foster the development of creative approaches for implementing
> informed choice by identifying, supporting, and replicating promising
> practices.
>
> POLICY
> STATEMENT: The State VR program must provide applicants and
> individuals eligible for VR services with opportunities to exercise
> informed choice throughout the VR process, including making decisions
> about the employment goal, VR services, service providers, settings for
> employment and service provision, and methods for procuring services. To
> enable an individual to make such decisions, the State VR agency must
> provide information, support and assistance needed by the individual. The
> VR agency has the responsibility to implement policies, procedures, and
> practices, and to develop resources that enable applicants and individuals
> eligible for VR services to exercise informed choice throughout the entire
> VR process; these policies, procedures, and practices must be consistent
> with Federal statutory and regulatory requirements.
>
> CITATIONS: Sections 2(c)(1), 100(a)(3)(C); 101(a)(6)(C), (8)(A),
> (9)(B), and (19); 102(b)(1)(A), (2)(B) and (C), (3)(A) and (3)(E)(i) and
> (ii); 102(d); and 103(a) and (a)(2) of the Rehabilitation Act of 1973, as
> amended.
>
> EFFECTIVE
> DATE: Upon issuance.
>
> EXPIRATION
> DATE: None
>
> INQUIRIES: Regional Commissioners
>
>
>
>
> ____________________
> Fredric K.
> Schroeder
> Commissioner
>
>
> CC: CSAVR
> NAPAS
> CANAR
> NCIL
> RSA Regional Offices
> (Regions II, IV, V, VIII, and X)
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rovig, Lorraine [mailto:LRovig at nfb.org]
> Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2011 8:26 AM
> To: artds55 at comcast.net
> Subject: FW: [nagdu] FW: Why good O&M training is so important [Oregon
> notes]
> Importance: High
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Tami Kinney
> Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2011 3:05 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] FW: Why good O&M training is so important
> Importance: High
>
> Yeah, last I heard, the state agencies are required to send consumers
> there unless theh agency can provide equivalent training... I keep getting
> the strong impression that the ones who refuse to obey the law there are
> the ones that are furthest from providing anything close. Grrr!
> I've had some occasion to note that mentioning to the VR Director here
> about that law thing seems to make her real mad and she becomes even more
> melodramatic by an order of magnitude. It is really quite something. /lol/
> Wait, why am I laughing. She's in charge of making sure that no blind
> person in the state of Oregon will recieve information, training and
> adaptive tools for work. She is, as far as I have ever been able to
> determine, truly dedicated to that task. Ugh!
>
> Tami
>
> On 11/07/2011 11:19 PM, Lyn Gwizdak wrote:
> Yeah Tami,
> Most of the folks around here are trained at the local places and the
> training sucks compared to what I hear about the NFB centers. What a
> shame. There are several here who have no cane skills and do all their
> travel by either paratransit or people's personal cars. Our Rehab refuses
> to send folks to the NFB centers as well.
>
> Keep on kickin' butt!!!
>
> Lyn and Landon
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tami Kinney"<tamara.8024 at comcast.net
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org
> Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 6:06 AM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] FW: Why good O&M training is so important
>
>
> Lyn, the people I know who have beenthrough those NFB centers are
> different in a whole lot of ways from those who have been through our
> state agency. I'd thought it was just our agency, but it seems in a lot
> of places O&M and other instruction is so lacking that the ones who have
> had the NFB training really stand out! I also find that those individuals
> are the ones I am most likely to end up spending time with and doing
> things with... Only here it is difficult to encounterpeople with that
> training instead of training by the agency, since our agency just says
> "noe" to the NFB centers. Sigh. A few Oregonians have been to one or the
> other of the NFB centers, but not many of them seem to live around here
> or to engage in activities where I get to spend time around them. Then
> again, I haven't been getting out as much as I like because of the Road
> of Certain Doom and lack of money for bus fare, anyway, but still!
>
> I did get together with one of my local deafblind friends and was able
> to discuss the ins and outs of crossing at audible signals She has
> recently gotten a cochlear implant, so is aware of sound cues... I figure
> since she talks to other people, too, she can tell others about the foly
> of using an audible signal as the only cue for street crossings and so
> on... We're starting to compare resources and build up a list of
> resources and so forth. She is attempting to work with the Commission for
> the Blind here, and testing them by asking questions by e-mail... I'm
> also talking to her about my evil plan to get information about braille
> curricula and maybe even texts for self-learning into the hands of blind
> people... There's another guy around here who is doing that in some
> formal sense; however, she was telling me she cannot feel the dots he
> produces on a mechanical brailler to feel them to learn the alphabet So I
> let her feel the dots on my old BrailelNote that a friend gave me, and
> that worked for her.
> Hm...
>
> Our guide dogs were playing with Mitzi's toys at the time, just to bring
> them in to the discussion. /lol/
>
> Tami
>
> Yeah,
>
> On 11/06/2011 12:20 PM, Lyn Gwizdak wrote:
> I looked at the video and wow. I haven't had cane training by the NFB
> centers, but I have seen the good mobility of some NFBers at conventions
> and see the difference!
>
> Thanks for posting this.
>
> Lyn and Landon
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rovig, Lorraine"<LRovig at nfb.org
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org
> Sent: Friday, November 04, 2011 10:42 AM
> Subject: [nagdu] FW: Why good O&M training is so important
>
>
> Wow! Here below is what an NFB cane travel instructor, a sighted
> counselor who was trained by Dr. Kenneth Jernigan at the Iowa Commission
> for the Blind, and is now working at BLIND, Inc., in Minneapolis, saw
> when he watched the video on Tommy's need for accessible signals at
> crosswalks. (Is a state VR agency giving him such poor travel training?)
>
> Lorraine Rovig
> PS: After I was taught cane travel by Dick Davis, I easily passed a
> 4-mile cane travel test, walking around the city of Des Moines while
> wearing my sleepshades.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dick Davis [mailto:ddavis at blindinc.org]
> Sent: Friday, November 04, 2011 2:28 PM
> To: Rovig, Lorraine
> Subject: RE: [nagdu] Why good O&M training is so important
>
> Hi,
> Although you can tell from Tommy's commentary that he made a mistake
> crossing the first street, in the second he hesitates before crossing,
> neglects to use moving traffic to stay straight, veers to the right, and
> gets tangled up in a truck that is parked at the curb a distance from the
> crosswalk. If you use the video in seminar class, I suggest somebody
> describe what is happening. Check out his other stuff: he can't swing a
> golf club worth a darn, and flying to Los Angeles for the weekend becomes
> a major adventure. The fact that he has the man who showed up with the
> wheelchair lead him through security and all the way to the boarding area
> demonstrates how independent he really is. They are making a film on his
> life as a blind person, and if they succeed in marketing it, I think it
> will do a lot of damage to public attitudes about blindness. Center
> students might want to see the video and offer comments on YouTube. I
> thought of adding my own, but I think they would be better coming from
> blind people.
> Dick Davis
> BLIND, Inc.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rovig, Lorraine [mailto:LRovig at nfb.org]
> Sent: Friday, November 04, 2011 9:05 AM
> To: Dick Davis
> Subject: FW: [nagdu] Why good O&M training is so important
> Importance: High
>
> The several emails on this NAGDU listserv topic make a thoughtful
> discussion in their own right that is completely in line with NFB
> convention resolutions. The email below is the first in the series. BTW,
> the archive for an NFB listserv is open to non-members.
> Lorraine
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Aaron Cannon
> Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2011 10:17 AM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: [nagdu] Why good O&M training is so important
> Importance: High
>
> This video posted on the Yahoo Accessibility blog seeks to demonstrate
> the need for accessible crossing signals. However, in my opinion it
> manages to do just the opposite quite nicely.
>
> http://yaccessibilityblog.com/wp/blind-people-cross-street.html
>
> I find it troubling that he talks about needing the signal "to indicate
> that it's safe for me to cross the street." Even worse is his comment "I
> don't have to listen for the traffic coming the other way, I can just
> listen to the tone."
>
> He also calls crossing without a signal "daunting" and "scary".
>
> I can understand that such crossings can be quite daunting and scary if
> you don't have good training or practice making such crossings, so I
> don't really fault him for that. However, I fear that people, especially
> other blind people, watching this video will assume that that's how it is
> for everyone.
>
> Finally, I do think that accessible signals can have their place, but
> certainly not the type shown in this video, which seem like they could
> actually interfere with listening to the traffic.
>
> Anyway, I just thought I'd share.
>
> Aaron Cannon
>
> _______________________________________________
> nagdu mailing list
> nagdu at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nagdu:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/lrovig%40nfb.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> nagdu mailing list
> nagdu at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nagdu:
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/linda.gwizdak%40cox.net
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nagdu mailing list
> nagdu at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nagdu:
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/tamara.8024%40comcast.n
> et
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nagdu mailing list
> nagdu at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nagdu:
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/linda.gwizdak%40cox.net
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nagdu mailing list
> nagdu at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nagdu:
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/tamara.8024%40comcast.n
> et
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nagdu mailing list
> nagdu at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nagdu:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/lrovig%40nfb.org
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nagdu mailing list
> nagdu at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nagdu:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/tamara.8024%40comcast.net
More information about the NAGDU
mailing list