[nagdu] Restaurant ordered service dog to lobby

Natalie nrorrell at qwest.net
Fri Nov 11 00:30:13 UTC 2011 

Yes, it takes every kind of people to make the world go 'round, as the song 
says.  Hal, you must have been ready to absolutely give that man a taste of 
his own medicine when he kicked your furry partner.  Boy, I sure would have. 
Glad your supervisor straightened his sad soul out.  Wow.
Best,
Nat and Liam Joshua

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "harold leigland" <h_leigland at bresnan.net>
To: <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2011 4:46 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Restaurant ordered service dog to lobby


> well  marian another one for ya; shortly after my friend jerry got his 
> guide dog we had to go to a out of town meeting of state board for our 
> blind group in lewis town. it was at the bus station cafae owned by one of 
> our members the acting manager through us out because of the dog jerry 
> called bob who came down very red faced and straitened things out. After I 
> got my first dog I was working in arizona at a resort as a therapist a guy 
> came in and kicked my dog, my boss who was no midget grabbed him and 
> straitened him out real quick. takes all kinds hal
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Marion Gwizdala <blind411 at verizon.net>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Date: Tuesday, Nov 8, 2011 02:28:08 PM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Restaurant ordered service dog to lobby
>
>>
>>
>> Naw! That would be too good a place for them! (grin) I prefer a 10 X 10 
>> cell
>> with a 350-pound biker named Bubba whose brother is blind and uses a 
>> guide
>> dog! (smile) Now, that's justice!
>>
>> Marion
>>
>>
>>
>> Marion
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Larry D. Keeler" <lkeeler at comcast.net>
>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2011 3:57 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Restaurant ordered service dog to lobby
>>
>>
>> > And that could be in a dog shelter with a bunch of shedding fur!
>> > ----- Original Message ----- 
>> > From: "Marion Gwizdala" <blind411 at verizon.net>
>> > To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>> > <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> > Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2011 2:37 PM
>> > Subject: Re: [nagdu] Restaurant ordered service dog to lobby
>> >
>> >
>> >thx^^;". Julie,
>> >thx^^;".    Although a cash fine would be good, incarceration would be 
>> >even
>> >thx^^;". sweeter in this case!
>> >thx^^;".
>> >thx^^;". Marion
>> >thx^^;".
>> >thx^^;".
>> >thx^^;". ----- Original Message ----- 
>> >thx^^;". From: "Julie J." <julielj at neb.rr.com>
>> >thx^^;". To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog 
>> >Users"
>> >thx^^;". <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> >thx^^;". Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2011 11:46 AM
>> >thx^^;". Subject: Re: [nagdu] Restaurant ordered service dog to lobby
>> >thx^^;".
>> >thx^^;".
>> >>> What I think would work even better is rounding up every 
>> >>> service/guide
>> >>> dog user in a 100 mile radius and going together to eat there.  Of
>> >>> course having along a news reporter makes the event that much more
>> >>> memorable.
>> >>>
>> >>> And I agree there need to be cash fines for this sort of behavior.
>> >>>
>> >>> Julie
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> On 11/8/2011 10:27 AM, Brenda wrote:
>> >>>> This is one of those times when I wonder if picketing and 
>> >>>> encouraging
>> >>>> the public to boycott would work.  Maybe the local citizens could be
>> >>>> encouraged to boycott this establishmebnt every Friday and tell the
>> >>>> manager WHY.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> On 11/8/2011 11:01 AM, Buddy Brannan wrote:
>> >>>>> Hi Dan,
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> IMO, the time for being nice and educating is long past. It's time 
>> >>>>> we
>> >>>>> start to insist that some teeth be put into the laws that protect 
>> >>>>> our
>> >>>>> rights. Unfortunately, the only thing some people understand
>> >>>>> (including, it would appear, this manager) is something that hits 
>> >>>>> them
>> >>>>> in the pocketbook. It's pretty clear to me that she even knows 
>> >>>>> she's
>> >>>>> in the wrong and doesn't care, as she wouldn't give her name even 
>> >>>>> to
>> >>>>> back up her stance.
>> >>>>> -- 
>> >>>>> Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
>> >>>>> Phone: (814) 860-3194 or 888-75-BUDDY
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> On Nov 8, 2011, at 10:50 AM, Dan Weiner wrote:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>> I would like to see that restaurant go out of business.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Dan
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>> >>>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] 
>> >>>>>> On
>> >>>>>> Behalf
>> >>>>>> Of Ginger Kutsch
>> >>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2011 10:42 AM
>> >>>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing Listbleathe National Association of Guide Dog 
>> >>>>>> Users
>> >>>>>> Subject: [nagdu] Restaurant ordered service dog to lobby
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Restaurant ordered service dog to lobby
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Frank Eckl goes everywhere with Spruce
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Published : Monday, 07 Nov 2011,
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> By Leon Hendrix
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> CASCADE TOWNSHIP, Mich. (WOOD) - Frank Eckl and his family -- 
>> >>>>>> including his
>> >>>>>> service dog -- went to dinner Saturday night at Don Julio's
>> >>>>>> restaurant in
>> >>>>>> Cascade Township. But the manager said the dog had to stay in the
>> >>>>>> lobby.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Eckl told 24 Hour News 8 he takes the dog with him wherever he 
>> >>>>>> goes.
>> >>>>>> He uses
>> >>>>>> the dog because of a disability he has that causes occasional
>> >>>>>> seizures. When
>> >>>>>> he's alone, it's his service dog Spruce that calls for help and 
>> >>>>>> helps
>> >>>>>> him
>> >>>>>> get up if he's fallen to the ground.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> He said he's never had a problem bringing Spruce with him since 
>> >>>>>> the
>> >>>>>> law
>> >>>>>> allows it.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> But the manager at Don Julio's wouldn't allow the dog in the 
>> >>>>>> dining
>> >>>>>> area.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> "She [the manager] said we were more than welcome to stay, but
>> >>>>>> patrons in
>> >>>>>> the restaurant and the manager didn't want dog hair in the
>> >>>>>> restaurant," he
>> >>>>>> said. "I was shocked that we were asked to have the dog leave and 
>> >>>>>> we
>> >>>>>> could
>> >>>>>> stay."
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> The manager-on-duty admitted they insisted the dog stay in the
>> >>>>>> entrance way
>> >>>>>> to the restaurant, and that she would make the same request it 
>> >>>>>> again.
>> >>>>>> She
>> >>>>>> said patrons at the restaurant complained about the dog and that 
>> >>>>>> some
>> >>>>>> opted
>> >>>>>> to leave because of sanitation concerns.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> "I asked for him to bring the dog out to the main entrance to the
>> >>>>>> lobby,"
>> >>>>>> the manager said. She refused to provide her name to 24 Hour News 
>> >>>>>> 8.
>> >>>>>> "I
>> >>>>>> didn't ask for him to take his dog back home, to take his dog to 
>> >>>>>> the
>> >>>>>> car or
>> >>>>>> leave him outside in the middle of the parking lot at all."
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Eckl and his family simply left the restaurant and went to the 
>> >>>>>> IHOP
>> >>>>>> restaurant next door, where they were welcomed with Spruce.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Others that use service dogs have been asked to comply by the same
>> >>>>>> rules
>> >>>>>> without complaint, the manager at Don Julio's said.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> "I can't keep every customer happy," she said, adding that she was
>> >>>>>> aware
>> >>>>>> that Spruce was a service dog but didn't realize it was Eckl who 
>> >>>>>> used
>> >>>>>> him.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> "I knew it was not for him. He didn't tell me the service dog was 
>> >>>>>> for
>> >>>>>> hm...
>> >>>>>> He wasn't clear to me either."
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Jocelyn Dettloff, a representative for the Disability Advocates of
>> >>>>>> Kent
>> >>>>>> County, said the violation is more serious than unhappy customers.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> "That's insane!" Dettloff said. "I mean, who would say that you 
>> >>>>>> have
>> >>>>>> to
>> >>>>>> leave your cane or your mobility device at the door. People who 
>> >>>>>> rely
>> >>>>>> on
>> >>>>>> service animals -- it's the exact same thing."
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> But Dettloff says there is a problem with the laws prohibiting
>> >>>>>> discrimination against the disabled because they are rarely 
>> >>>>>> enforced.
>> >>>>>> The
>> >>>>>> most someone like Eckl can do, she said, is file a complaint that
>> >>>>>> could take
>> >>>>>> more than a year to get attention. Even then, she said, there is 
>> >>>>>> no
>> >>>>>> punishment for establishments that break the law.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Eckl could file a civil lawsuit as well, Dettloff said, but he 
>> >>>>>> would
>> >>>>>> not
>> >>>>>> likely be awarded damages.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> "The law definitely needs some sort of stricter enforcement," she
>> >>>>>> said.
>> >>>>>> "There is no strict enforcement like the health department or the
>> >>>>>> fire
>> >>>>>> department."
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Eckl says he isn't seeking monetary damages and doesn't really 
>> >>>>>> want
>> >>>>>> anything
>> >>>>>> from Don Julio's, other than an apology and training for its 
>> >>>>>> staff.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> "I'm not out for malice here," he said, adding that he wouldn't go
>> >>>>>> back to
>> >>>>>> the establishment again.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> The manager at Don Julio's said she stands by her actions and 
>> >>>>>> would
>> >>>>>> do the
>> >>>>>> same thing again if Eckl returned.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> "I have to," she said. "I can't have any kind of animal be around
>> >>>>>> food. It's
>> >>>>>> kinda hard having most of my customers leave out on me because of 
>> >>>>>> one
>> >>>>>> customer."
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> -- 
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Eckl wrote a letter about his experience and sent it to area media
>> >>>>>> and
>> >>>>>> groups that advocate for the disabled:
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> To whom it may concern,
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> This past Saturday, November 4th, 2011, at 6pm, my family and I
>> >>>>>> wanted to
>> >>>>>> eat at you establishment. This included my wife Karen, and my
>> >>>>>> daughter Lydia
>> >>>>>> (who happens to have Special Needs.) My Service Dog, Spruce, was 
>> >>>>>> with
>> >>>>>> me.
>> >>>>>> Spruce was wearing her jacket that displays "SERVICE DOG." I have 
>> >>>>>> her
>> >>>>>> for
>> >>>>>> medical needs and she regularly assists me in my daily life.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> We entered your restaurant, were seated in the back where no one 
>> >>>>>> else
>> >>>>>> was
>> >>>>>> seated. The gentleman that seated us even turned on lights for us. 
>> >>>>>> We
>> >>>>>> were
>> >>>>>> given menus and served water. It was at this time that a waitress
>> >>>>>> addressed
>> >>>>>> us and stated: "You can stay but your dog must wait outside." I
>> >>>>>> explained
>> >>>>>> the public law which states that I can have my Service Dog with 
>> >>>>>> me.
>> >>>>>> We were
>> >>>>>> then told that the manager had complaints about "dog hair" and 
>> >>>>>> that a
>> >>>>>> dog
>> >>>>>> was disruptive to the other patrons. When I said that Spruce stays
>> >>>>>> and helps
>> >>>>>> me, we were asked to take Spruce out. We then left. Upon calling
>> >>>>>> authorities, the police stated this was a "civil matter" and to 
>> >>>>>> seek
>> >>>>>> council.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> I am an Honorably Discharged (10 yr) USAF veteran, who served his
>> >>>>>> country in
>> >>>>>> both war and peace-time. It's hard to belief that discrimination 
>> >>>>>> such
>> >>>>>> as
>> >>>>>> this exists today. My disability is due to of my service. The real
>> >>>>>> issue is
>> >>>>>> no one with a disability should be told they can't have their
>> >>>>>> assistance
>> >>>>>> with them and then have to leave an establishment.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> I find myself with the opportunity to help educate your 
>> >>>>>> organization
>> >>>>>> with
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> the Law and others by making this incident public. I choose not to
>> >>>>>> seek
>> >>>>>> council, but rather inform you and other organizations of this
>> >>>>>> incident in
>> >>>>>> hopes that this type of discrimination will not take place again.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>  From the ADA: Service animals are animals that are individually
>> >>>>>> trained to
>> >>>>>> perform tasks for people with disabilities such as guiding people 
>> >>>>>> who
>> >>>>>> are
>> >>>>>> blind, alerting people who are deaf, pulling wheelchairs, alerting
>> >>>>>> and
>> >>>>>> protecting a person who is having a seizure, or performing "other"
>> >>>>>> special
>> >>>>>> tasks. Service animals are working animals, not pets.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Under the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA), businesses and
>> >>>>>> organizations that serve the public must allow people with
>> >>>>>> disabilities to
>> >>>>>> bring their service animals into all areas of the facility where
>> >>>>>> customers
>> >>>>>> are normally allowed to go. This federal law applies to all
>> >>>>>> businesses open
>> >>>>>> to the public, including restaurants, hotels, taxis and shuttles,
>> >>>>>> grocery
>> >>>>>> and department stores, hospitals and medical offices, theaters,
>> >>>>>> health
>> >>>>>> clubs, parks, and zoos.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Michigan Statutes, 1953, Section 750.502c (last amended in 1984 by
>> >>>>>> Public
>> >>>>>> Act 110)
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Michigan statutory law guarantees a blind person the legal right 
>> >>>>>> to
>> >>>>>> be
>> >>>>>> accompanied by a dog guide in harness in all public accommodations
>> >>>>>> and
>> >>>>>> educational institutions and on all public conveyances. The dog 
>> >>>>>> guide
>> >>>>>> user
>> >>>>>> can be required to produce identification, such as the I.D. card
>> >>>>>> furnished
>> >>>>>> by the dog guide school from which the dog was obtained.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Public accommodations include trains, buses, taxis, elevators, 
>> >>>>>> boats,
>> >>>>>> and
>> >>>>>> other common carriers...
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Violation: Any person who interferes with the above enumerated 
>> >>>>>> rights
>> >>>>>> is
>> >>>>>> guilty of a misdemeanor and therefore punishable under Michigan
>> >>>>>> law...
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> In acknowledgement of this letter, I ask only for a formal apology
>> >>>>>> and for
>> >>>>>> you to conduct training with your staff on the Laws concerning
>> >>>>>> customers
>> >>>>>> with Service Dogs. This is the only compensation I wish to ask of
>> >>>>>> you. This
>> >>>>>> incident was embarrassing and offensive. I would hope that anyone
>> >>>>>> with a
>> >>>>>> disability who chooses to dine at Don Julio's would never 
>> >>>>>> encounter
>> >>>>>> this
>> >>>>>> intolerance.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Sincerely,
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Frank J. Eckl
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
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>> >>>>>> dog-to-lobby
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________
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