[nagdu] ablind consumer'sRight toChooserehabtraining(federalregs)

Sat Nov 12 22:57:57 UTC 2011

RJ, Sheila and others,

Even though VR affects us all at one time or another, and it does have 
some impact on our lives as guide dog users... I would imagine it is not 
of immediate concern to the majority of people on this list.

Does anyone have any bright ideas about how to get together for ad hoc 
discussion off list to compare notes and ideas and war stories

Sounds like I'm not the only one desperate to find solutions, for myself 
and now more for others who ask me... So anything I learn is to the 
good; stories of good VR experiences, of ideas for advocacy, even sadly 
similar negative trends, I can use it all. To be honest, I'm pretty 
hotly focused on the subject of VR right now in addition to everything 
else I'm working on because of our agency's current ongoing state of 
crisis. I know I'm just little old me, not a lick of clout to my name, 
but if I can communicate well... Or if I can just once give someone an 
answer to a question that doesn't make me cringe... Some of that I'm 
working on, too, though I don't have a clue what I"m doing. /lol/

Anyway, if anyone wants to right with a way to carry on discussion and 
exchange of ideas and the like, please do. I'm at tamara.8024 at comcast.net.

Thanks.

Tami

On 11/11/2011 07:45 PM, RJ Sandefur wrote:
> Shelia, What do you think we should do? RJ
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sheila Leigland"
> <sleigland at bresnan.net>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, November 11, 2011 10:39 PM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] ablind consumer'sRight
> toChooserehabtraining(federalregs)
>
>
>> I think many blind people hav had the same thoughts and questions over
>> the years. If the unemployment rate was at seventy four percent across
>> the board in the country there would be a revolt like nothing seen in
>> a long time.
>>
>> Sheila Leigland
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: RJ Sandefur <joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com>
>> Sent: Friday, November 11, 2011 5:18 PM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] a blind consumer'sRight
>> toChooserehabtraining(federalregs)
>>
>> See that's how it is here in Florida. The councilor's dictate instead of
>> allowing you to make an informed choice. Why is their a 74 percent
>> unemployment rate among the blind? because all the working aged blind are
>> working in a vending stand because councilor knows best! The NFB has been
>> around for almost 75 or more years, but when you really get down to
>> it, what
>> have the blind really accomplished? Not much of anything. Jerigan said
>> its a
>> cycle The agencies for the blind give bad teaching skills, which leads to
>> wrong misconceptions of the blind person to the general public. We have
>> three blindness training centers, but these are not schools. Alot of
>> times,
>> kids are sent to a blindness school, from the time they're five years
>> old,
>> until they graduate, and then when they get out into the world, they
>> don't
>> know how to adjust. So, what should we the blind do? Get them when
>> they're
>> young, so that when they graduate from high school, they won't need to
>> go to
>> the NFB center, because they already have the training. RJ
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brenda" <bjnite at windstream.net>
>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Friday, November 11, 2011 6:47 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] a blind consumer'sRight
>> toChooserehabtraining(federalregs)
>>
>>
>>> Hey Tami
>>>
>>> that is what happens in my state. Once they had a Consumer Advisory
>>> Counsel that said some true, uncomplimentary stuff about the counselors.
>>> The counselors were insulted because the counselors had Masters degrees
>>> and who were these ungrateful consumers. I read the minutes and heard
>>> the
>>> counselors angry comments because I worked for the Agency.
>>>
>>> Then as a consumer after I was forced out of the agency due to an office
>>> move, I had a whole slew of problems getting what I knew I needed. I
>>> found out a rehab tech had told the counselor the exact opposite about
>>> what he and I discussed. I protested and had my case closed in
>>> frustration.
>>>
>>> Instead of learning our rights etc., I would just like to know the
>>> States
>>> where rehab professionals really help the most consumers and work with
>>> them as a team instead of dictating what the client needs and giving
>>> anyone who asks for choices etc. a hard time.
>>>
>>> When I had my issues, I didn't know of anyone to help me. Even if I did,
>>> it is an exhausting process and i want to enjoy life and not spend
>>> all my
>>> time fighting with people. If I had things to do over, and had access to
>>> the internet, I would have moved to the State where the rehab people are
>>> known to be more helpful.
>>> Brenda
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 11/11/2011 6:22 PM, Tami Kinney wrote:
>>>> So what do you do, then, when you do your homework before you make your
>>>> first call and know what your needs are and formulate your requests
>>>> according to that in line with what the law and the policies and
>>>> procedures are and..And get nowhere. For years.
>>>>
>>>> What if you keep hearing that this is what happens to virtually
>>>> everyone
>>>> you talk to.
>>>>
>>>> What if you learn that there is no recorse, that the agency is not
>>>> following the laws or the rules and regs because they don't actually
>>>> have
>>>> to? Because there is no one to make them?
>>>>
>>>> Then where are you?And where are all your friends and acquaintances and
>>>> what do you tell them when they ask you what do do?
>>>>
>>>> Tami.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 11/11/2011 12:40 PM, Larry D. Keeler wrote:
>>>>> You don't march in, you ease in and tell your counsellor what you'd
>>>>> like
>>>>> to do and ask them how it can be accomplished.
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "RJ Sandefur"
>>>>> <joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com>
>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Friday, November 11, 2011 2:49 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] a blind consumer's Right
>>>>> toChooserehabtraining(federalregs)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> How is a blind consumer suposed to just march into their councilors
>>>>>> office, and tell him or her I want this or that? The councilor's know
>>>>>> these regulations back and forwards... They have excuses for
>>>>>> everything. Really this should be for the rehab councilor list. RJ
>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Criminal Justice Major
>>>>>> Extraordinaire" <orleans24 at comcast.net>
>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Friday, November 11, 2011 2:39 PM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] a blind consumer's Right to
>>>>>> Chooserehabtraining(federalregs)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi, larry,
>>>>>>> I'll agree with you on this one and leave it alone too.
>>>>>>> Since I don't know that much about those individuals, will leave it
>>>>>>> as that.
>>>>>>> *Smiles*
>>>>>>> Bibi and Odie
>>>>>>> the happy spirited bounty labra wolf
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> nagdu:
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nagdu:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/lkeeler%40comcast.net
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nagdu:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/tamara.8024%40comcast.net
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nagdu:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/bjnite%40windstream.net
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nagdu mailing list
>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nagdu:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nagdu:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/sleigland%40bresnan.net
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nagdu:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nagdu mailing list
> nagdu at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nagdu:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/tamara.8024%40comcast.net
>
>