[nagdu] Seeing Eye Class Length Shortened

Mon Oct 31 22:19:40 UTC 2011

Julie,

Let me rephrase my word to bring attention back to the crux of my argument.
Rather than uproar, I should have said something to the effect of there is
quite a bit of "what ifs" when no one has any facts about how the program
will impact anyone.  I agree that uproar carries a more negative connotation
but don't think it takes away from my argument that folks are making much
ado about what we don't have full facts of yet.  Since the e-mail that went
out from SE included contact information for questions, I sent an e-mail to
alleviate any guessing on my part.

I do understand that people have varying reasons for not wanting to train or
that it can be a difficult proposition for home training and that there are
requirements.  I still do think though that many of the comments are based
on quick assumptions rather than waiting to find out what SE says...or any
other school that may have a similar change in program.

And let me say now as well that I purposely type in a pretty dry manner when
having discussions through e-mail.  I do that so no one will read any hidden
meanings into something I've written.  Got a private e-mail and while I
don't think I'm being rude in my typing I thought I'd better explain it.  Of
course, once again, not directed at anyone in particular.

I just am not feeling what all the hype is based upon the specific e-mail
regarding SE.

William Burley
William.burley3 at gmail.com 

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-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Julie J.
Sent: Monday, October 31, 2011 4:05 PM
To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Seeing Eye Class Length Shortened

William,

Honestly I am baffled at what uproar you are speaking of?  I've seen a 
lot of uproar on this list over the years.  the current discussion 
hasn't even left the realm of pleasant conversation.

I think when people speak of taking off extended time from work, they 
are not speaking specifically of TSE, but generally about all guide dog 
schools.  With the exception of GDB and the few programs that offer home 
training, it is quite a large chunk of time off of work to attend a 
guide dog program.  Sure there is a bit of variety in exactly how many 
days, but not by much.

One of the reasons I have not attended a guide dog program is the length 
of time necessary away from my responsibilities at home.   Certainly 
when/if I attend a guide dog program the time away will be a major 
factor in my decision.  Home training is only offered at a very few 
programs for first time students.  Of the programs that do offer home 
training, many have specific requirements that you must meet, meaning 
they do not offer home training just because you want it.

Julie

On 10/31/2011 3:01 PM, William Burley wrote:
> Hi Tracy.
>
> I really don't see where there is disagreement.  What I said is that for
> those who have work issues, they can request home training.  This is not a
> difficult proposition to request through SE.  No matter the timeframe, the
> option is there so I am still a little baffled at why folks are in what
> appears to be dire straits about this change.
>
> We also both agree that it's not the end of the world.  So I pleasantly
> disagree about us disagreeing *smile*
>
> I'm just a bit confused as to why people are creating all these dire
options
> when they haven't even gotten the full scoop from SE.
>
> Again, I doubt SE is doing things exactly as they did even 10 years ago.
As
> long as it is not detrimental to the training experience and other
personal
> factors, I don't see what the uproar is.  And I'm not directing that at
you.
> I'm speaking of the arguments themselves with lack of accompanying facts.
>
> William Burley
> William.burley3 at gmail.com
>
> A leader in providing virtual paralegal and virtual assistant services!
>
> Follow Burley-Wilson&  Associates, L.L.C.
>
> Facebook:  www.facebook.com/BurleyWilson
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>
> *Contact us for a FREE 30-minute consultation TODAY!
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Tracy Carcione
> Sent: Monday, October 31, 2011 1:06 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Seeing Eye Class Length Shortened
>
> Hi William.
> I disagree.  Getting back on a Tuesday instead of a Thursday would make a
> difference to me.  On Tuesday, I'd probably work the rest of the week.  On
> Thursday, I'd probably figure the week was already lost, so I'd take
> Friday as well.
> Not the end of my world either way, but I expect my boss would rather have
> those 3 extra days from me than not.
>
> And if I had the bad luck to not have a dog work out, and have to go back
> way too soon, I think I'd work hard to get home training.  3 weeks off
> every 8 or 9 years is workable.  Twice in a year or two I think would be a
> problem.
> Tracy
>
>> Hi all.
>>
>> I am really enjoying this conversation and it reminds me that change is
>> something that comes with great difficulty in most instances.
>>
>> While I understand the discussions about the impact of training with a
new
>> guide as it relates to career, I am finding it hard to rationalize how
>> going
>> home on a Tuesday rather than Thursday, in the case of the Seeing Eye
>> training schedule, will make much difference.  If you move the two days
>> off
>> the end, that will be toward the end of your training and you still have
>> missed a substantial amount of work.  I would find it a little
unrealistic
>> to think if that employer did decide to allow you to go to training that
a
>> two day earlier return would be the determining factor in whether you
keep
>> your job or not.  If it were to that point, you would know it before
going
>> to training in the first place.
>>
>> Please, please note that when I say you I am using it in the general
>> sense.
>> I don't want anyone thinking I am singling them out because I am not.
>>
>> I just think the issues that are being raised are easily dealt with by
>> talking with both your employer and the Seeing Eye...especially since
they
>> offer home training.  There are options other than always taking a month
>> off
>> from work...or as a retrain, 18 days with the new schedule.
>>
>> William Burley
>> William.burley3 at gmail.com
>>
>> A leader in providing virtual paralegal and virtual assistant services!
>>
>> Follow Burley-Wilson&  Associates, L.L.C.
>>
>> Facebook:  www.facebook.com/BurleyWilson
>> Twitter:  www.twitter.com/BurleyWilson
>> Blog:  www.burleywilson.wordpress.com
>> Skype:  BurleyWilson
>>
>> *Contact us for a FREE 30-minute consultation TODAY!
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf
>> Of Pickrell, Rebecca M (TASC)
>> Sent: Monday, October 31, 2011 11:53 AM
>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Seeing Eye Class Length Shortened
>>
>> Exactly. I could probably be away from work for a month, I did it when I
>> had
>> my daughter. Still, I do need to ask myself from a career perspective if
>> it
>> is worth doing to get a guide dog. And the answer is that while I did it
>> once, I'm not sure I'd do it again. A month is a long time. I worry about
>> the impact on my career should I have a match not work out or the dog not
>> be
>> able to work soon after coming home.
>> I had to sell my work on why and how a dog would help me be a more
>> effective
>> employee. It was very stressful.
>>
>> Likewise, everybody understands having a baby, though I did see some
>> disparty in that v. what my male coworkers are asked, mostly I was asked
>> repeatedly when I would "go on maternity leave".  I pointed out that they
>> don't ask the guys when they will have heart attack, break bones, roll
off
>> their bikes, and that they would deal with it just fine when I called and
>> said "I'm taking leave now".
>> I think some of this is a disparty in the same process fits many people,
>> but
>> people get bogged in who v. what and that muddies things.
>> I also know that I couldn't be away from my daughter for a month. She
>> needs
>> me in a way work never has.
>> I am not yet ready for another dog. I don't know when or if I will be. I
>> do
>> know that the being away from home leans me toward the "no" side of the
>> house.
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf
>> Of Shannon L. Dillon
>> Sent: Monday, October 31, 2011 12:35 PM
>> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Seeing Eye Class Length Shortened
>>
>>
>>
>> I agree with taking less time out of the work week for training and also
>> for
>> providing in-home schedules for students.  We need to continue to remind
>> schools how important those alternatives are to us so that we can have
our
>> guide dogs but maintain employment and families.
>> SHANNON L. DILLON
>>
>>
>>> Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2011 11:02:41 -0400
>>> From: carcione at access.net
>>> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Seeing Eye Class Length Shortened
>>>
>>> Hi Sam.
>>> If you're so moved, you might write to TSE and tell them how you feel. I
>>> wrote to gradservices, myself. I've heard of instances before when TSE
>>> changed things because graduates spoke up.
>>> Tracy
>>>> I agree. It makes sense to leave a few days early, as that would put
>>> you
>>>> close to the begining of a work week. I thought about posting that on
>>>> the TSE list, but let's just say that things are at the point where
>>> I'm
>>>> not willing to get in the middle of these arguments. Based on how
>>> things
>>>> are going with everything on there, I figure it is better to stay
>> neutral.
>>>> On 10/30/2011 10:23 AM, Tracy Carcione wrote:
>>>>> I'm glad class is a little shorter, but I'm a bit annoyed that it's
>>> the
>>>>> weekend they've cut off. For me, arranging time off work is the
>>> hardest
>>>>> part of getting ready for class. I would be a lot happier if they'd
>>>>> start
>>>>> on Saturday and drop a couple workdays at the end. Am I the only
>>> person
>>>>> who feels this way?
>>>>> Tracy
>>>>>
>>>>>> I think that there is just a little less down time. That was the
>> length
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> my last class; I thought it was more challenging, or invigorating.
>>>>>> CL
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Oct 29, 2011, at 4:44 PM, Jewel wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What effect, if any, will this have on the training sessions? It
>> seems
>>>>>>> it gives people less time to get acclimated to the area, but do
>> people
>>>>>>> need that extra time?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Curious,
>>>>>>> Jewel
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 10/29/11, Margo and Arrow<margo.downey at verizon.net>  wrote:
>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>> From: "The Seeing Eye, Inc."<noreply at seeingeye.org>
>>>>>>>> To: "Margo Downey"<margo.downey at verizon.net>
>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, October 28, 2011 2:11 PM
>>>>>>>> Subject: Seeing Eye Class Length Shortened
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Dear Graduates,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> At The Seeing Eye, we've always been committed to serving our
>>>>>>>> students
>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>> the best way possible. Over the years, many students have asked if
>> it
>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>> be possible to have a shorter stay here in order to return to
>>> their
>>>>>>>> friends,
>>>>>>>> families, and jobs.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In response, we've streamlined our training process in order to
>> allow
>>>>>>>> our
>>>>>>>> students to get home as quickly as possible. Starting with our
>>> first
>>>>>>>> class
>>>>>>>> in January, we will be able to reduce the time students spend on
>>>>>>>> campus
>>>>>>>> by
>>>>>>>> two days. Instead of arriving Saturday, students will now arrive
>>> on
>>>>>>>> Monday.
>>>>>>>> This will enable you to return home in two fewer days - retraining
>>>>>>>> students
>>>>>>>> will stay for 18 days, and new students for 25 days.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Information on the updated class dates for 2012 can be found at:
>>>>>>>> http://www.SeeingEye.org/Schedule
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> David Johnson
>>>>>>>> Director of Instruction&  Training
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This message was sent to margo.downey at verizon.net by
>>>>>>>> noreply at seeingeye.org
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You can modify/update your subscription via the link below.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Unsubscribe from all mailings
>>>>>>>>
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