[nagdu] food rewards

Thu Sep 15 21:03:58 UTC 2011

And they will con you!  Holly gets treats when we're sitting around 
relaxing.  I let the little one get his treat before Holly because she'll 
push him out of the way so she has to sit first.  Otherwise, its corection 
and praise!
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Michael Hingson" <mhingson at sbcglobal.net>
To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2011 3:45 PM
Subject: [nagdu] food rewards


> All,
>
> Please remember that food rewards are intended to REWARD a particular
> behavior as part of the on-going training process.  Giving food every time
> for life that the dog does something we like makes for a happy dog, but it
> does not reinforce behavior after awhile.  Food rewards are intended to be 
> a
> tool to reinforce good behavior until our guides get what we want them to
> do.
>
> Once the behavior is learned food rewards should be decreased and ended 
> for
> that behavior.  Sure you might still use one for a particular behavior
> occasionally after a behavior pattern has been established, but don't use
> the food forever.  If you do you are only being conned by your dog.
>
>
> Mike Hingson
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Sherry Gomes
> Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2011 11:20 AM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] GDB's new methods
>
> No problem.  I was a very outspoken opponent of food rewards when I first
> heard about them.  I have to say, food rewards might have saved Bianca's
> life, when a fire alarm went off at an airport, and my friend tried to run
> outside with her--I can't physically run, so I went sighted guide with
> another friend.  Well, the friend with Bianca dropped her leash, the outer
> doors opened and Bianca flew out, almost running into the area where the
> cars drive.  I got out and called her with a palm full of kibble, and she
> came running.  She could so easily have gotten hit that day.  Also, the 
> food
> rewards helped keep Bianca working longer when she developed a fear of 
> other
> dogs.  I worked at GDB, which was a tough place for a dog who was nervous
> around dogs!  The food helped her continue to work for several more years,
> with the kibble rewards and lots of encouragement from me.  Eventually, I
> felt she'd done enough and retired her.  But I know the food rewards 
> helped
> her.
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Tracy Carcione
> Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2011 12:10 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] GDB's new methods
>
> Thanks for these explanations.
> Tracy
>
>> absolutely not.  sure, some handlers probably do that kind of thing.  in
>> fact, with Bianca and now with Olga, I often do.  I need them to find
>> wheel
>> chair ramps, so I often give them food rewards across the street he 
>> upcurb
>> side, but they do not rush across streets.  also, I live by a very
>> complicated street crossing--I would end up moving by the most 
>> complicated
>> crossing in my town.  The crossing is stressful for me and for Olga.  I
>> don't mind rewarding her when we get across it.  By the way, it never 
>> ever
>> replaces praise.  I bend down, hug her, tell her what a good girl she is
>> and
>> then give her a piece of kibble.
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
>> Behalf
>> Of Tracy Carcione
>> Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2011 10:00 AM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] GDB's new methods
>>
>> Hi Sherry.
>> Thanks.  That's very interesting.  So you don't have to give a treat at
>> every up-curb?  I would think that would make the dog rush across the
>> street.  Sometimes I feel like rushing across the street, but TSE told me
>> to go slow if Ben wants to.  It does give him more time to react, I 
>> guess,
>> even if it's nerve-wracking for me.
>>
>> Margo, I was in GDB's 2-week class 3 times, and that was in the 
>> pre-treats
>> era.  I really liked it.  Not so much messing about.  Get in, get it 
>> done,
>> go home!
>> Tracy
>>
>>> I think your friend has the process a little confused.  Which is easy to
>>> do.
>>> The way GDB does clicker training means it's the click and treat you
>>> reduce
>>> over time and yes the treat as well, depending on your dog, of course.
>>> You
>>> use the click and treat while teaching your dog something such as
>>> finding
>>> a
>>> light pole or bus stop or doorway, then once the dog knows it, you back
>>> off
>>> on the click, then gradually back off ont he treat, if you want.  My
>>> current
>>> guide hardly ever needs food rewards, and my retired guide got them for
>>> almost everything.  I always have kibble in my pockets.  But remember,
>>> you
>>> also always delete the amount from the daily meals for the dogs.  The
>>> whole
>>> click and treat thing is so customizable depending on the handler's
>>> needs
>>> and desires and the dog's needs and best way to motivate.  And I'm
>>> someone
>>> who used to be strongly anti food reward when GDB first started using
>>> it,
>>> but now I'm completely sold on it.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>> Behalf
>>> Of Tracy Carcione
>>> Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2011 6:35 AM
>>> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>> Subject: [nagdu] GDB's new methods
>>>
>>> I thought GDB was using clicker training, the click & treat, with the
>>> treats decreasing frequency as the dog figured out what was wanted.
>>> (That's my understanding of C&T, which I admit is rather vague.)  But I
>>> was talking to a friend about it, and she thinks that GDB is not
>>> clicking,
>>> just using food rewards, and that the treats never decrease.  She thinks
>>> that the new GDB graduate is constantly handing out treats, at least at
>>> every up-curb, and probably other places.  We're picturing a guy
>>> schlepping a 5-pound bag of kibble for a long walk!
>>> Are there any recent GDB graduates on the list who've been trained in
>>> the
>>> new methods?  What is it really like? Now I'm eaten up with curiosity!
>>> C&T me!
>>> Tracy
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nagdu mailing list
>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nagdu:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/sherriola%40gmail.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nagdu:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/carcione%40access.net
>>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nagdu mailing list
> nagdu at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nagdu:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/sherriola%40gmail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nagdu mailing list
> nagdu at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nagdu:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/mhingson%40sbcglobal.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nagdu mailing list
> nagdu at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nagdu:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/lkeeler%40comcast.net