[nagdu] another what would you do question

Ann Edie annedie at nycap.rr.com
Tue Apr 10 19:38:13 UTC 2012 

Hi, All,

I think a person might have reason to be angry or upset if they were the
subject of discussion on a forum and if they were mentioned by name.  But a
general discussion of "what would you do if..." in a hypothetical way should
not be offensive to anyone, in my opinion.  How is this different from
discussing, for example, "what would you do if you were denied access to a
restaurant?"  Or "what would you do if your dog were attacked by a loose dog
on the street?"  To my knowledge, no one has mentioned the name of the
person who has the allegedly aggressive dog, nor would I want this
information to be divulged if it were known.  And I know that Julie has no
intention of divulging it.  Julie asked for our thoughts and suggestions,
and that is what we have offered.

As far as being called on the phone and informed that another guide dog team
is going to be present at an event where you are planning to be present with
your dog which is alleged to have behavioral issues, if the person is truly
well-intentioned and is working on managing and remediating the problem,
then I would think he/she would welcome the chance to reassure the caller
that he/she has a plan and will do everything necessary to ensure the safety
and comfort of all attendees.  And if that safety and enjoyment of the event
cannot be ensured with the allegedly aggressive dog present, then the
handler of the dog with issues has the opportunity to consider other
arrangements, such as attending without his/her guide dog.

Best,
Ann
-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Pickrell, Rebecca M (TASC)
Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2012 11:59 AM
To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
Subject: Re: [nagdu] another what would you do question

	Yes, I think I'd be angry at any group discussion that went on
without my input, but I don't think I'd be angry at someone calling me to
ask an honest question. 

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of The Pawpower Pack
Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2012 2:45 PM
To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] another what would you do question

I am with you in that I'd be confused. I would, however, be quite angry if
the accusations were unfounded and I found out that people had discussed
this supposed issue in a group with it being all hear-say and no facts.  


Rox
Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 10, 2012, at 1:34 PM, "Pickrell, Rebecca M (TASC)"
<REBECCA.PICKRELL at tasc.com> wrote:

> This post is excellent.
> I'm curious and this prompts a question for the list. If you got a call
out of the blue about your dog and there were no such issues, would you be
offended? Robert says yes. I don't think I would be, I think I'd be more
confused.
> I think I would get offended if I knew there was a problem, but hadn't
come to terms with it in  my own mind.
> 
> Am I alone in this?
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
> Behalf Of Robert Hooper
> Sent: Friday, April 06, 2012 9:15 AM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] another what would you do question
> 
> Hello:
> 
> If it were me, I would only contact the individual if you had
incontrovertible evidence of this dog's aggression (something more than
hearsay evidence, in other words). Personally, I would feel offended if I
got a call out of the blue about my dog's behavior if I thought such
concerns were unfounded. I don't know what evidence you have regarding this
dog's behavior, but I would require a high confidence level (more than 70%)
before I would approach a random stranger about something which might just
be rumor. For example, maybe another dog startled this "aggressive" dog and
the dog barked once or twice. That's not in itself aggressive behavior.
Evidence from one person or one event does not constitute reality. Also, I
would be careful about how I would talk to this gentleman--assuming the dog
does have an aggression issue, perhaps this gentleman is aware of it and
working with a school or on his own to resolve it. If it's as serious as it
sounds, maybe he is already looking into a new home for the dog or getting a
new one. So, I would avoid "you" messages--I.e. "You better make sure your
darn dog is under control" or "Your monster better not be within five miles
of mine" (don't worry, Julie, I'm exaggerating--I know you wouldn't say it
like that). Rather, use "I" messages so as not to put the guy on the spot
and hurt him--as I said, he may be aware that there is a problem and it
could already be causing him emotional stress and pain. Things like "I've
heard some things regarding your dog's behavior towards other dogs--need I
be concerned about this?" Of course, this person could also be the world's
biggest tool--I know no more than what you have said on list--but I know
that if Bailey exhibited aggressive behavior toward other dogs, I would be
under a lot of stress and would be working on a solution to the problem--it
would be emotionally humiliating if people swept up their dogs and babies at
the sight of Bailey. The handlers can't always be faulted at their dog's
behavior. Granted, the handlers are responsible for taking action when their
dog's behave inappropriately, but if their dog was recently attacked, the
dog could be exhibiting some post-traumatic symptoms for which the handler
is not responsible. Also, it is very difficult to alter such behavior if it
is the result of a dog attack. I would just consider all sides of the coin
and be sure not to judge the handler by his dog's behavior.
> I'm sure you have thought about all this, but it doesn't seem as though
this perspective has yet been shared on list, so there you have it. I'm glad
you are able to find other transportation arrangements; if you decide to
bite the bullet and contact the person, I would just consider what he's been
going through and the possibility that people may have been rude or tactless
about the issue before you. If so, he may seem defensive about it. I hope
this is of some value.
> Sincerely,
> Robert Hooper
> Hooper.90 at buckeyemail.osu.edu
> The Ohio State University
> 0653 Buckeye-Cuyahoga CT
> 653 Cuyahoga Court
> Columbus, Ohio 43210
> (740) 856-8195
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Julie J.
> Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2012 8:09 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] another what would you do question
> 
> Lyn,
> 
> Thanks!  I'm working on the transportation half of the issue, so I won't
have to worry about the other dog in that confined space.  At least at
> the hotel I will have room to maneuver if the need arises.   I don't
> always know when there is another dog near me though, unless there is some
noise of some variety.  It will be difficult for me to keep from
encountering the other dog for the entire weekend.  I think Jenine and
others are right, I need to suck it up and call the other guide dog handler
to have a chat about this.
> 
> Julie
> 
> 
> 
> On 4/5/2012 4:21 PM, Lyn Gwizdak wrote:
>> Hey Julie,
>> It sure is miserable when other people have service dogs that are 
>> aggressive.
>> 
>> You shouldn't be the one to leave your dog home - that other person 
>> should leave their aggressive dog home.
>> 
>> I'd say, see for yourself and make sure the two dogs aren't on top of 
>> each other or face to face.  Maybe in the van, one of you sits up 
>> front and the other one in the back where the two dogs won't even see 
>> each other.  My two cents.
>> 
>> Lyn and landon
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Julie J." <julielj at neb.rr.com>
>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2012 9:28 AM
>> Subject: [nagdu] another what would you do question
>> 
>> 
>>> Hello all!
>>> 
>>> I have another what would you do in this situation question.  I'm 
>>> going to apologize in advance because my information is going to 
>>> seem cryptic.
>>> 
>>> I am attending an event with other blind people and some guide dogs.
>>> I am riding to this event in a van with one of the other guide dogs.
>>> I am planning on taking Monty.  I have heard from more than one
>>> trusted source that the other guide dog is aggressive.   I do not
>>> know the other guide dog handler at all.  I do not know what program 
>>> the dog is from.  Not going to this event is not an option.  getting 
>>> there another way is an extremely remote option that I'm looking 
>>> into.  Even if I do find other transportation I will be in a small 
>>> hotel for the weekend where this other guide dog will also be.
>>> 
>>> So what do I do?  I've thought about leaving Monty, but there won't 
>>> be anyone available to care for him.  I'd have to leave him at the 
>>> dog sitter's place.  It also feels like leaving Monty is allowing 
>>> the other person to not take responsibility for his dog.
>>> 
>>> Is there some obvious solution that I'm overlooking? I know you guys 
>>> are awesome and will have great ideas.
>>> 
>>> TIA
>>> Julie
>>> 
>>> 
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>> 
>> 
>> 
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> 
> 
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