[nagdu] another what would you do question

Tue Apr 10 21:24:09 UTC 2012

Yah, its sort of like counselling casses.  The situation can be talked about 
but not with names attached.  I think that talking about these issues in a 
speculative situation can help as much as real life situations.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ann Edie" <annedie at nycap.rr.com>
To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2012 3:38 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] another what would you do question


> Hi, All,
>
> I think a person might have reason to be angry or upset if they were the
> subject of discussion on a forum and if they were mentioned by name.  But 
> a
> general discussion of "what would you do if..." in a hypothetical way 
> should
> not be offensive to anyone, in my opinion.  How is this different from
> discussing, for example, "what would you do if you were denied access to a
> restaurant?"  Or "what would you do if your dog were attacked by a loose 
> dog
> on the street?"  To my knowledge, no one has mentioned the name of the
> person who has the allegedly aggressive dog, nor would I want this
> information to be divulged if it were known.  And I know that Julie has no
> intention of divulging it.  Julie asked for our thoughts and suggestions,
> and that is what we have offered.
>
> As far as being called on the phone and informed that another guide dog 
> team
> is going to be present at an event where you are planning to be present 
> with
> your dog which is alleged to have behavioral issues, if the person is 
> truly
> well-intentioned and is working on managing and remediating the problem,
> then I would think he/she would welcome the chance to reassure the caller
> that he/she has a plan and will do everything necessary to ensure the 
> safety
> and comfort of all attendees.  And if that safety and enjoyment of the 
> event
> cannot be ensured with the allegedly aggressive dog present, then the
> handler of the dog with issues has the opportunity to consider other
> arrangements, such as attending without his/her guide dog.
>
> Best,
> Ann
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Pickrell, Rebecca M (TASC)
> Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2012 11:59 AM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] another what would you do question
>
> Yes, I think I'd be angry at any group discussion that went on
> without my input, but I don't think I'd be angry at someone calling me to
> ask an honest question.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of The Pawpower Pack
> Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2012 2:45 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] another what would you do question
>
> I am with you in that I'd be confused. I would, however, be quite angry if
> the accusations were unfounded and I found out that people had discussed
> this supposed issue in a group with it being all hear-say and no facts.
>
>
> Rox
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Apr 10, 2012, at 1:34 PM, "Pickrell, Rebecca M (TASC)"
> <REBECCA.PICKRELL at tasc.com> wrote:
>
>> This post is excellent.
>> I'm curious and this prompts a question for the list. If you got a call
> out of the blue about your dog and there were no such issues, would you be
> offended? Robert says yes. I don't think I would be, I think I'd be more
> confused.
>> I think I would get offended if I knew there was a problem, but hadn't
> come to terms with it in  my own mind.
>>
>> Am I alone in this?
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf Of Robert Hooper
>> Sent: Friday, April 06, 2012 9:15 AM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] another what would you do question
>>
>> Hello:
>>
>> If it were me, I would only contact the individual if you had
> incontrovertible evidence of this dog's aggression (something more than
> hearsay evidence, in other words). Personally, I would feel offended if I
> got a call out of the blue about my dog's behavior if I thought such
> concerns were unfounded. I don't know what evidence you have regarding 
> this
> dog's behavior, but I would require a high confidence level (more than 
> 70%)
> before I would approach a random stranger about something which might just
> be rumor. For example, maybe another dog startled this "aggressive" dog 
> and
> the dog barked once or twice. That's not in itself aggressive behavior.
> Evidence from one person or one event does not constitute reality. Also, I
> would be careful about how I would talk to this gentleman--assuming the 
> dog
> does have an aggression issue, perhaps this gentleman is aware of it and
> working with a school or on his own to resolve it. If it's as serious as 
> it
> sounds, maybe he is already looking into a new home for the dog or getting 
> a
> new one. So, I would avoid "you" messages--I.e. "You better make sure your
> darn dog is under control" or "Your monster better not be within five 
> miles
> of mine" (don't worry, Julie, I'm exaggerating--I know you wouldn't say it
> like that). Rather, use "I" messages so as not to put the guy on the spot
> and hurt him--as I said, he may be aware that there is a problem and it
> could already be causing him emotional stress and pain. Things like "I've
> heard some things regarding your dog's behavior towards other dogs--need I
> be concerned about this?" Of course, this person could also be the world's
> biggest tool--I know no more than what you have said on list--but I know
> that if Bailey exhibited aggressive behavior toward other dogs, I would be
> under a lot of stress and would be working on a solution to the 
> problem--it
> would be emotionally humiliating if people swept up their dogs and babies 
> at
> the sight of Bailey. The handlers can't always be faulted at their dog's
> behavior. Granted, the handlers are responsible for taking action when 
> their
> dog's behave inappropriately, but if their dog was recently attacked, the
> dog could be exhibiting some post-traumatic symptoms for which the handler
> is not responsible. Also, it is very difficult to alter such behavior if 
> it
> is the result of a dog attack. I would just consider all sides of the coin
> and be sure not to judge the handler by his dog's behavior.
>> I'm sure you have thought about all this, but it doesn't seem as though
> this perspective has yet been shared on list, so there you have it. I'm 
> glad
> you are able to find other transportation arrangements; if you decide to
> bite the bullet and contact the person, I would just consider what he's 
> been
> going through and the possibility that people may have been rude or 
> tactless
> about the issue before you. If so, he may seem defensive about it. I hope
> this is of some value.
>> Sincerely,
>> Robert Hooper
>> Hooper.90 at buckeyemail.osu.edu
>> The Ohio State University
>> 0653 Buckeye-Cuyahoga CT
>> 653 Cuyahoga Court
>> Columbus, Ohio 43210
>> (740) 856-8195
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
>> Behalf
> Of Julie J.
>> Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2012 8:09 PM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] another what would you do question
>>
>> Lyn,
>>
>> Thanks!  I'm working on the transportation half of the issue, so I won't
> have to worry about the other dog in that confined space.  At least at
>> the hotel I will have room to maneuver if the need arises.   I don't
>> always know when there is another dog near me though, unless there is 
>> some
> noise of some variety.  It will be difficult for me to keep from
> encountering the other dog for the entire weekend.  I think Jenine and
> others are right, I need to suck it up and call the other guide dog 
> handler
> to have a chat about this.
>>
>> Julie
>>
>>
>>
>> On 4/5/2012 4:21 PM, Lyn Gwizdak wrote:
>>> Hey Julie,
>>> It sure is miserable when other people have service dogs that are
>>> aggressive.
>>>
>>> You shouldn't be the one to leave your dog home - that other person
>>> should leave their aggressive dog home.
>>>
>>> I'd say, see for yourself and make sure the two dogs aren't on top of
>>> each other or face to face.  Maybe in the van, one of you sits up
>>> front and the other one in the back where the two dogs won't even see
>>> each other.  My two cents.
>>>
>>> Lyn and landon
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Julie J." <julielj at neb.rr.com>
>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2012 9:28 AM
>>> Subject: [nagdu] another what would you do question
>>>
>>>
>>>> Hello all!
>>>>
>>>> I have another what would you do in this situation question.  I'm
>>>> going to apologize in advance because my information is going to
>>>> seem cryptic.
>>>>
>>>> I am attending an event with other blind people and some guide dogs.
>>>> I am riding to this event in a van with one of the other guide dogs.
>>>> I am planning on taking Monty.  I have heard from more than one
>>>> trusted source that the other guide dog is aggressive.   I do not
>>>> know the other guide dog handler at all.  I do not know what program
>>>> the dog is from.  Not going to this event is not an option.  getting
>>>> there another way is an extremely remote option that I'm looking
>>>> into.  Even if I do find other transportation I will be in a small
>>>> hotel for the weekend where this other guide dog will also be.
>>>>
>>>> So what do I do?  I've thought about leaving Monty, but there won't
>>>> be anyone available to care for him.  I'd have to leave him at the
>>>> dog sitter's place.  It also feels like leaving Monty is allowing
>>>> the other person to not take responsibility for his dog.
>>>>
>>>> Is there some obvious solution that I'm overlooking? I know you guys
>>>> are awesome and will have great ideas.
>>>>
>>>> TIA
>>>> Julie
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>> for
>>>> nagdu:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/linda.gwizdak%40c
>>>> o
>>>> x.net
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nagdu mailing list
>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nagdu:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/julielj%40neb.rr.c
>>> o
>>> m
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nagdu:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/hooper.90%40buckeye
>> mail.osu.edu
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nagdu:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/rebecca.pickrell%40
>> tasc.com CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message and any attachments or
>> files transmitted with it (collectively, the "Message") are intended only
> for the addressee and may contain information that is privileged,
> proprietary and/or prohibited from disclosure by law or contract. If you 
> are
> not the intended recipient: (a) please do not read, copy or retransmit the
> Message; (b) permanently delete and/or destroy all electronic and hard
> copies of the Message; (c) notify us by return email; and (d) you are 
> hereby
> notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of the Message is
> strictly prohibited.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nagdu:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/pawpower4me%40gmail
>> .com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nagdu mailing list
> nagdu at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nagdu:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/rebecca.pickrell%40tasc.c
> om
>
> _______________________________________________
> nagdu mailing list
> nagdu at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nagdu:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/annedie%40nycap.rr.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nagdu mailing list
> nagdu at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nagdu:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/lkeeler%40comcast.net