[nagdu] I need some advice/help

Nicole B. Torcolini at Home ntorcolini at wavecable.com
Fri Apr 13 14:46:12 UTC 2012 

Hahaha, yes. No, just kidding. Marion is always a great source of 
information and advice, especially when it comes to legal things.

Nicole

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Larry D. Keeler" <lkeeler at comcast.net>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, April 13, 2012 7:42 AM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] I need some advice/help


> That's right we all bother Marion!  We give him something to do down there 
> is sunny Florida!
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Marion Gwizdala" <blind411 at verizon.net>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, April 13, 2012 10:34 AM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] I need some advice/help
>
>
>> Jenny,
>>    You are not bothering me. I look forward to your posts on the list!
>>
>> Marion
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Jennifer Perdue" <jlperdue3 at gmail.com>
>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2012 1:13 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] I need some advice/help
>>
>>
>>> Sorry to have bothered you.  I found the link after I had emailed you.
>>>
>>> Jenny
>>> On Apr 12, 2012, at 5:34 AM, David Andrews wrote:
>>>
>>>> A person can also subscribe directly using e-mail -- send a message to:
>>>>
>>>> nagdu-request at nfbnet.org and put the word subscribe in the subject line 
>>>> by itself.
>>>>
>>>> Dave
>>>>
>>>> At 10:19 PM 4/11/2012, you wrote:
>>>>> Laurel,
>>>>>   If one goes to our website
>>>>>
>>>>> http://ww.nagdu.org
>>>>>
>>>>> and clicks on the "Join the NAGDU discussion list", it will take you 
>>>>> directly to the subscription page.
>>>>>
>>>>> Fraternally yours,
>>>>> Marion
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Laurel" 
>>>>> <laurel.stockard at gmail.com>
>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2012 4:23 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] I need some advice/help
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> I'll write you off list Larry.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hey, can somebody post the subscribing email address to get on this
>>>>>> group? I don't know where to go to look it up all over again. lol
>>>>>> /smiles/
>>>>>> Laurel and Stockard
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 4/11/12, Larry D. Keeler <lkeeler at comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>>>> Let me ask around.  Write me at lkeeler at comcast.net I live here in 
>>>>>>> Ann Arbor
>>>>>>> and I'll poke around.  I've been promoting such things as adopting 
>>>>>>> carreer
>>>>>>> change dog for adoption.  Only 5, thats how old Holly is and AI sure
>>>>>>> wouldn't want to retire her!
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>> From: "Laurel" <laurel.stockard at gmail.com>
>>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2012 12:50 PM
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] I need some advice/help
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> No problem Rebecca, actually this was a working guide until she
>>>>>>>> retired him 3 days ago. She was forced to retire him, he's only 
>>>>>>>> five.
>>>>>>>> And I need help, She lives in Rockford Illinois near Chicago and 
>>>>>>>> she
>>>>>>>> is about to have to give him up to a lab rescue because she can't 
>>>>>>>> keep
>>>>>>>> him, can't place him and can't let him go back to southeastern.
>>>>>>>> Can anybody help with this one?
>>>>>>>> Laurel and Stockard
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 4/11/12, Pickrell, Rebecca M (TASC) <REBECCA.PICKRELL at tasc.com> 
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Thank you for this.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I'm the one that gave you and your friend a hard time about being 
>>>>>>>>> on the
>>>>>>>>> list.
>>>>>>>>> I read these messages out of order and thought that we were 
>>>>>>>>> talking about
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>> working dog.
>>>>>>>>> This list has a bunch of very smart people on it.
>>>>>>>>> All I could think was "she's got a real problem, joining a list of 
>>>>>>>>> people
>>>>>>>>> who can help her resolve it is easy, and yet she hasn't found the 
>>>>>>>>> time?"
>>>>>>>>> Your friend's situation is indeed serious, though since the dog is
>>>>>>>>> retired,
>>>>>>>>> it doesn't require the same level of urgency a working guide 
>>>>>>>>> would.
>>>>>>>>> Also, thank you for posting the name of the school. If 
>>>>>>>>> Southeastern
>>>>>>>>> doesn't
>>>>>>>>> have ownership (and I can't remember if they do or not) this is a 
>>>>>>>>> lesson
>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>> why ownership matters.
>>>>>>>>> Also, like I said before, this list is made up of smart people. 
>>>>>>>>> We are
>>>>>>>>> all
>>>>>>>>> able to figure out normal school behavior v. someone having a bad
>>>>>>>>> experience
>>>>>>>>> without saying the bad experience didn't happen.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] 
>>>>>>>>> On
>>>>>>>>> Behalf
>>>>>>>>> Of Laurel
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2012 12:31 PM
>>>>>>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog 
>>>>>>>>> Users
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] I need some advice/help
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Honestly, my friend has been dealing with alot lately and just 
>>>>>>>>> hasn't
>>>>>>>>> been able to join quite yet, and blame me a little, I've been
>>>>>>>>> ridiculously busy with college this week, I found the time to post 
>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>> help my friend because I take care of my friends, but shame on me 
>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>> haven't remembered to send her the exact email address so she can
>>>>>>>>> subscribe. You can razz on me a little for that one /grins/.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> As sfor posting the name of the school, I answered that one in 
>>>>>>>>> another
>>>>>>>>> thread. Mainly, I was just trying to be sensitive, and I don't 
>>>>>>>>> want
>>>>>>>>> people to know me as a school basher, but now that I'm sure you 
>>>>>>>>> all
>>>>>>>>> won't go crazy on me /grins/ I answered the question in another 
>>>>>>>>> thread
>>>>>>>>> on here. And I'm sorry if at any point I offended anybody or 
>>>>>>>>> anything.
>>>>>>>>> You guys are awesome! I promise, I made a note to myself to send 
>>>>>>>>> her
>>>>>>>>> the correct subscribing email address so she can get on here.
>>>>>>>>> Laurel and Stockard
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 4/11/12, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home <ntorcolini at wavecable.com> 
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Because, sometimes, people don't want the school to know that you 
>>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>>> talking about them. Yes, in this sort of situation, I probably 
>>>>>>>>>> wouldn't
>>>>>>>>>> care, as I personally would not go back to that school. However, 
>>>>>>>>>> if it
>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>> something more minor that is more of a just FYI thing, it is 
>>>>>>>>>> possible
>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>> the person may not want the school knowing that he/she was 
>>>>>>>>>> talking about
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> school.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>> From: "Pickrell, Rebecca M (TASC)" <REBECCA.PICKRELL at tasc.com>
>>>>>>>>>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog 
>>>>>>>>>> Users'"
>>>>>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2012 6:22 AM
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] I need some advice/help
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Why on earth would you not name this school?
>>>>>>>>>>> School bashing is saying "school x sucks, they have ugly 
>>>>>>>>>>> trainers and
>>>>>>>>>>> their dogs are mean".
>>>>>>>>>>> You are presenting facts as you know them to be. Why would you 
>>>>>>>>>>> not name
>>>>>>>>>>> the school?
>>>>>>>>>>> If I go to Safeway and buy meat that I find out had spoiled, I 
>>>>>>>>>>> wouldn't
>>>>>>>>>>> say to my neighbor "I had a bad experience at the store, but I 
>>>>>>>>>>> won't
>>>>>>>>>>> tell
>>>>>>>>>>> you which one".
>>>>>>>>>>> Why doesn't this work for schools? If one is doing something 
>>>>>>>>>>> bad, share
>>>>>>>>>>> it.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] 
>>>>>>>>>>> On
>>>>>>>>>>> Behalf
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Of Laurel
>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2012 3:59 PM
>>>>>>>>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog 
>>>>>>>>>>> Users
>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [nagdu] I need some advice/help
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I know I haven't been part of this list for long, but I need 
>>>>>>>>>>> somebody
>>>>>>>>>>> to give me some advice on behalf of a friend of mine.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I have a friend who has a guide from a different school than me 
>>>>>>>>>>> (I'm
>>>>>>>>>>> GDB). I obviously won't say what school my friend is from, but I 
>>>>>>>>>>> am
>>>>>>>>>>> going to briefly detail her situation for you all.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> She has her third dog from this particular school. Her first dog 
>>>>>>>>>>> made
>>>>>>>>>>> it 3 weeks into class before getting removed from the program 
>>>>>>>>>>> due to
>>>>>>>>>>> aggressive growling. Her second dog barked aggressivley and she 
>>>>>>>>>>> didn't
>>>>>>>>>>> get but a week with her. She went back to the same school about 
>>>>>>>>>>> 4 or 5
>>>>>>>>>>> months later and was given a guide. This guide has been with her 
>>>>>>>>>>> for 3
>>>>>>>>>>> years. He has numerous health problems with his stomach that 
>>>>>>>>>>> make it
>>>>>>>>>>> not possible for him to work anymore. He also has issues with 
>>>>>>>>>>> right
>>>>>>>>>>> side clearance while working and my friend has suffered many 
>>>>>>>>>>> injuries
>>>>>>>>>>> while working this dog. This dog is a sweet dog, a good pet but 
>>>>>>>>>>> not a
>>>>>>>>>>> good guide. She has over the years, and imparticularly the last 
>>>>>>>>>>> 6
>>>>>>>>>>> months, tried desperately to get help from the school. The 
>>>>>>>>>>> school has
>>>>>>>>>>> told her that she's on her own and can't be helped and they 
>>>>>>>>>>> refuse to
>>>>>>>>>>> send a trainer out or help her in any way.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Now, to the meat of her problem. Her dog doesn't want to work 
>>>>>>>>>>> anymore
>>>>>>>>>>> and is being retired. She has the ability to place the dog and 
>>>>>>>>>>> wants
>>>>>>>>>>> to do so so that she can keep in contact with her dog. She loves 
>>>>>>>>>>> him
>>>>>>>>>>> and has a bond with him, he just can't work. The school 
>>>>>>>>>>> basically said
>>>>>>>>>>> that they are sending a trainer out in 2 weeks to forceably take 
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> dog and rehome him. They are not planning to inform his new home 
>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>> any health issues he has or anything. My friend is very upset 
>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>> doesn't want her dog to go back to this school considering the 
>>>>>>>>>>> fact
>>>>>>>>>>> that they didn't care about him all this time and didn't attempt 
>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>> rectify the situation at all. Is there anything my friend can do 
>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>> keep the dog from getting taken by the school. Please don't get 
>>>>>>>>>>> me
>>>>>>>>>>> wrong, my friend is a great handler. She was issued a dog that 
>>>>>>>>>>> due to
>>>>>>>>>>> health and working issues should have never been issued. This
>>>>>>>>>>> situation is not her fault. Can anybody give me any legal advice 
>>>>>>>>>>> etc
>>>>>>>>>>> to help with the situation. I'm willing to tell you who the 
>>>>>>>>>>> school is
>>>>>>>>>>> and with my friend's permission discuss the situation in full 
>>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>> somebody, if it would help. If anybody could help me and my 
>>>>>>>>>>> friend,
>>>>>>>>>>> please write me privately and let me know.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Thank you, and I apologize that this is so long.
>>>>>>>>>>> Laurel and Stockard
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
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>
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